I'm creating this thread to discuss the extremely broad topic of politics, whether it be in America or other countries, if you have anything to say about politics, feel free to post here. Some possible topics might be:

-Is there a presidential candidate you feel you can support yet, or are you fed up with all of them, etc.?(American politics)

-What are some things you think a government should (or shouldn't) do for it's people?

-Do you find politics confusing or inaccessible? Boring? Why?

-Historically, which country/empire/kingdom etc. had/has the best form of government, in your opinion? Why?

-What's the best political ideology in your opinion? Democracy?Absolutism? Aristocracy? Communism? Monarchy? Anarchy? Did you create your own and wish to share perchance?

-Yes you can discuss Bush here too...What's he done right? What's he done wrong? Is he going to cause the end of the world? Will he start more wars? How will history remember him as a president and as a person?

and.....GO!

we've been taking a lot about the 08 presidental election here. I live in iowa and the iowa cacuss is being held today

i really hope either Obama or Hilary wins, I think they are the best canidate, and have the best views on things from healthcare and the war. I'm a proud Liberal and democrat, I'm pro choice and for gay marraige. I also think that we should be doing more to reduce gas admisions and protect and restore more of the enviroment.

I think the war in Iraq has gone on too long and I don't think there is any more we can do to try and stabalize the country, I don't know if there is any way if we can stop the violence between the palistinians and the I think they are called the shiates. But there are so many religious and ethnic groups that are aganst each other there.

-another topic, should we go into pakistain to look for osama Bin landen, that I'm unsure about.

This could be a dangerous thread and everyone here should respect eachother's opinions, even if we strongly disagree no one should be attacked for their politcal views.

I must admit, I tend to avoid political discussion on the internet. But I might as well contribute at least one post to this thread.

I hate to sound like such a wannabe (especially in the context of this being the internet), but I really haven't heard Ron Paul say a single thing that I disagree with. I know he has no chance of winning the election, but I do wish the American public had some sense knocked in to it so it could realize that Clinton and Obama are both weak candidates.

As someone who's always been at the lower end of the economic spectrum relative to my upper-middle-class OC peers, I've always been somewhat of a socialist. Not necessarily in the name of total government control of the market and economy, but rather simply in the intent of more equal distribution of wealth. I do concede that some people work harder and thus deserve more earnings, but I find it unfair that so many people work so hard to receive so little, and so many people work so little and yet receive so much. It distresses me that some people now see the iPhone as a necessity of everyday life while others have to spend every night huddled up in the back alley of a deserted parking lot. Some people collect million-dollar homes in the same way other people collect food stamps. SOME people can afford to go to any university they can get into, while OTHERS can't even go to the universities they were accepted into because it costs too much and there's no available financial aid (hint: last one is from "personal experience").

Also, I believe the government should be doing much more to protect the environment; most people have absolutely no idea just how much we're screwing up this place. The more you learn about how our industrial presence in affecting the environment, the bleaker the picture becomes. Government has for a long time been gong easy on industrial giants in the name of capitalism, but this inane cowardice has got to stop as soon as possible. The amount of energy we consume and the amount of trash we produce is ridiculously unnecessary.

Nah. It's just another element of the social sciences.

Historically, which country/empire/kingdom etc. had/has the best form of government, in your opinion? Why?[/quote[As much as its citizens whine and complain, America really does have a decent form of government. And all the main problems are externally attributed, not internally part of the political structure.

[quote=NeverMore]What's the best political ideology in your opinion? Democracy?Absolutism? Aristocracy? Communism? Monarchy? Anarchy? Did you create your own and wish to share perchance?

Democratic socialism (politically democratic and economically socialist). It serves the majority and it serves the entirety. Discrepancies would be filtered through the democratic process, but the main economic equalities mandated by socialist practices would be kept intact.

Bush is a fad, and Bush-hating is a fad. Bush is not the worst president the US has ever had; in fact, he's not even in the bottom 3. He's not evil for initiating a war; hell, Abraham Lincoln initiated a war when he didn't really need to. Bush doesn't delight in torture and murder; he just made a patriotically-driven mistake and ended up trying to salvage his dignity and reputation by perpetuating his mistaken choice for too long. But that doesn't make someone evil. If history sees Brush as truly that bad, it's only because of all the sensationalist bias that's become so popular in the contemporary world. Personally, I don't support Bush; but to claim that he's "out to destroy the main principles of democracy and civil liberties" is absolutely immature, especially in the historical context.

Well, that's probably the most I've talked about politics in the history of my interneting career. o.O

This post was last modified: 01-04-2008 04:53 AM by Matt.

Yea I agree this could be a dangerous thread and everyone should respect each other's views, it's alright to disagree and even to have a FRIENDLY argument about your differences, but please, let's be civil don't pick a fight over the internet that's just stupid, thx for bringing that up evanescencesfan I completely forgot to mention anything like that

I can't believe what it must be like in Iowa today, bet it's been really annoying with all the phone calls and stuff, will you be glad when it's over and everyone moves on?

I'm a registered independent so as far as presidential candidates go I haven't really picked a side or even a candidate because I haven't read up on each one's political views. But that being said I have been reading some things about Huckabee that I do agree with him on and some minor things like his view on covenant marriages, that I don't agree on. To be honest with you I can't stand Hilary Clinton, she wants to raise taxes in order to create more government programs which is something I do not support. She has been in politics for way too long, is from a rich political family, and has that "I'm a politician" smile on her face and it freaks me out. Another example of a candidate that has that I'm a rich politician feel to them is Mitt Romney, look at how much money he's thrown down in Iowa alone, he is reaching into his own pockets for some of it which is nothing to him being a wealthy business man and all.. Obama and Edwards do seem like good candidates they have a very fresh air feel about them if you know what I mean not to mention Obama does have a good plan for health care from what I've seen.

But that's just me making judgments on the candidates themselves not their views on the issues, which I shouldn't do, but can't help having opinions, maybe if I read more about Hilary I wouldn't dislike her so much

Actually, the taxes will have to be raised sooner or later. The U.S. federal debt held by the public is around five trillion dollars. Adding in intragovernmental debt, it's around nine trillion dollars.

Add the ludicrously unattainable payment that the government promises in the form of Medicaid and Social Security, and the debt rises to around fifty-nine trillion dollars.

Bush tried to maintain popular appeal by lowering taxes, but it was stupid of him to do so. In the face of such a massive federal deficit, taxes need to be raised. And people wonder why the value of the dollar is declining.

This post was last modified: 01-04-2008 12:04 PM by Matt.

I agree that Clinton and even Obama, aren't the strongest candidates that have been put forth by the Democratic party, the question to ask is are they strong enough to lead? And the only way we'd know is after they get elected, which is kind of a catch 22.. As far as Ron Paul I honestly don't know a thing about his views but you are right his chances of winning seem slim to none, but I've noticed that a lot of times the candidates with the least party support are the better ones this being because they are less worried about satisfying their party and more about satisfying the majority of individuals found in the center of the political spectrum, but sadly they fail because that's how our two party system works

You made some good points, the distribution of wealth is always a measure of how healthy the population is economically, is the wealth in the hands of many or a few select pockets? And the distribution of wealth we see today is getting worse in my opinion, with rising unemployment and the economic slump were in, I have no data to prove any of what I just said btw so don't quote me on that You mentioned university expenses, which is something I feel strongly about. University should be made more affordable so that it is not only the rich upper class that have access to higher education but the middle class and dare I say the lower class! How the government can do that, I don't know, maybe tuition limits, colleges can only raise their tuitions a certain amount over a certain interval of time?

Well your right about that, can't argue with the truth. I think the government should, more specifically increase the amount of clean alternative energy being used, and I don't mean any of this pansy we'll use 20% by 2020 kind of bullshit, I mean real results like a year where the government partially pays for houses to become solar powered, etc. things like that, harsher penalties on car companies that refuse to innovate and use cleaner energy sources, but then again that would hurt our auto industry which is already in trouble so I'm not quite sure that would be smart to do..

NeverMore Wrote:

Historically, which country/empire/kingdom etc. had/has the best form of government, in your opinion? Why?[/quote[As much as its citizens whine and complain, America really does have a decent form of government. And all the main problems are externally attributed, not internally part of the political structure.

Well I'd like you to elaborate more on what exactly what you mean by our problems being externally attributed, I think I disagree with you significantly on this topic. While our government is something that works well, I think it doesn't have lasting stability, think about it, our government has been around for only 230 years or so and look at all of the corruption we have already, look at the disconnect we have between our population and our politicians. I believe our government has fundamental problems in the way it was designed and these problems will become more and more evident as time goes on. Look how easy it was for us to lose many of our freedoms, with a single law passed: The Patriot Act, that's all it took...

Matt Wrote:

[quote=NeverMore]What's the best political ideology in your opinion? Democracy?Absolutism? Aristocracy? Communism? Monarchy? Anarchy? Did you create your own and wish to share perchance?

Democratic socialism (politically democratic and economically socialist). It serves the majority and it serves the entirety. Discrepancies would be filtered through the democratic process, but the main economic equalities mandated by socialist practices would be kept intact.

That does sound good, do you know of any countries that tried this?

While I do agree that there is definitely a sensationalist bias that follows Bush with whatever he does and it's hard to actually get the facts with something like this, but the reason why I dislike Bush is not for is foreign policy which I do disagree with, but like you put very well, he made a patriotically driven mistake and perpetuated it for his entire candidacy... What he's done that makes him rank with the bottom of the barrel in my opinion, namely I like to compare him to Grant with his Whiskey Ring corruption scandals, Bush has allowed so much corruption within his circle of friends that he's done a disservice to the office. All the things he's keeping secret from the American people, all of it seems like it's covering something up and I can't stand him for being deceitful to the public, just tell us what the hell is going on Bush! But what worries me is if this type of sensationalist bias will continue to every following president, think about it, we live in the age of the Daily Show and the internet, if your president your going to be made fun of and your every mistake will be made much more evident than it ever has before in the past, which worries me

yes there has been a lot of controversy over Hillary's Healthcare plan. But I think that if it would raise taxes wouldn't it go to a good cause. The price of getting treatment for a diease is terrible, I mean this is well developed country, we should able to afford free healthcare let alone cheaper health care. My mother cannot afford health insurance, so she can only afford going to a free clinic. The expensise of having a terminal illness is very large if you don't have insurance and it can be even worse if it cause you to miss work.

I do agree with Ron pauls opposistion to the patriot act, and some of his veiws other views I disagree with. But I think the patriot act is not democratic, search without warant is aganst the bill of rights and tapping telephone wires is what that is. it's one step closer to 1984. I also disagree with the deportation of immigrants, our ancesters and the founders pf this country were illegal immigrants. I think illegal immigrants should at least be given the choice of leaving or applying for citizenship, and there should also be help given to them, because it takes money to become a citizen and fill out the forms.

But I understand that of course because of 9/11 this is more of an issue, and how homeland security can be an issue. and that line between protection and invasion of privacy becomes gray.

and I agree that the government should work harder on making cars more more efficent and make public transportation easier. And making industry plants to be cleaner. But I think the protection of public land should be increased, I am strongly against the cutting down of the redwood forests, it took centuaries for those trees to grow and the impact it would have on greenhouse emmisions would be worse. we should also

The econimc regression is also a concern, and we should find ways to make more jobs and keep more companies and jobs in america, and be less dependant on forien products. because we import a lot of products and electronics from Asia.

Actually, the taxes will have to be raised sooner or later. The U.S. federal debt held by the public is around five trillion dollars. Adding in intragovernmental debt, it's around nine trillion dollars.

Add the ludicrously unattainable payment that the government promises in the form of Medicaid and Social Security, and the debt rises to around fifty-nine trillion dollars.

Bush tried to maintain popular appeal by lowering taxes, but it was stupid of him to do so. In the face of such a massive federal deficit, taxed need to be raised. And people wonder why the value of the dollar is declining.

Taxes will have to be raised eventually with the way things are going that's true, but if the government made more of an effort to limit it's spending then the budget wouldn't be in such trouble. I don't think it's just natural that the tax rate increases as years go by, it should rise and fall with the economy along with other factors like inflation. And I'm not sure but I don't think that the value of the dollar is involved with the deficit, I think it's more of a combination of the collapsing housing market, auto industry and the stability of the economy, but I'm not sure and the deficit may be a contributing factor.

I don't know what to think about universal health care.. It'd be great if it worked but should the government really be dealing with that? I'm more of a less government control, laissez faire kinda guy, but still not paying for health care would be awesome..

Immigration is another topic I don't know what to think about, on the one hand immigrants did build this country and the people that come here are just looking for better lives, if you were faced with the same decision, wouldn't you choose to try to live a better life even if you had to risk your life crossing a border? But on the other hand, we can't just grant every illegal immigrant amnesty and say well it's okay you broke the law here's some citizenship, that's not upholding the law at all and it sets a bad example to others trying to get into the country legally, why even try when you could illegally cross and just be granted amnesty?

Yea I hate the patriot act and think it's one of the biggest infringements of rights both human rights and constitutional rights ever conceived and wish it would jump off a bridge or something

Well, it's not so much the deficit; rather, it's the dichotomy of a mammoth amount of foreign-owed debt coupled with a nearly systematic tradition of deficit rather than surplus. It's easy to lose faith in American currency when the American government assumes a habitual practice of borrowing.

This post was last modified: 01-04-2008 12:07 PM by Matt.

You right we are the country that deals with the most loans, it's borderline ridiculous...

Did everyone see the results of the Iowa Caucuses? Obama won for the democrats and Huckabee won for the republicans, do you think these two will be as successful elsewhere? As much as I like Huckabee, I don't think he'll have much success in other states that are less conservative and or religiously active because his voter constituency in Iowa was mainly church goers, not that that's wrong, it's just I think he'll find it more difficult to win in other states, but still, come Maryland's primary I might go represent him, but our primary is really late on the list I think..