A shine-less marriage in Nice-ville...

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Nina

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I've been here for a little under a week and from all the reading I've done, I actually feel that I am getting to know some posters. My heart has been touched in so many ways, by so many of your words. I get so caught up in reading, I forget to post replies.

Sometimes, I'm so overcome with the words of others, I doubt I'd have anything of import to add to the threads.
I've said in another thread that my, "nice" life has lost it's shine and some good suggestions came my way and I am persuing a number of them.

I was just reading the threads on relationships and sexual frustration and I have a different slant on the issues being discussed. This is another area in my life where the shine has faded to a, wax build-up on a humid, overcast day:

My husband is an ambitious workaholic. He's a really...nice man... Every Wed. and Sun....like clockwork...we have sex. It's ...nice....But it is completely empty. We exchange empty words and go through the motions. He claims that after 20 years of marriage, nothing shines....It's not suppose to..according to him....
I still want my shine, **** it!
Am I selfish to want my life to shine again? I'm not sure when it stopped shinning. I think it's been gradual and it finally became pronounced enough that I noticed it in and amongst all the other hectic events that go into a life. I don't need extravagant anythings. Just the warmth of a real conversation and a joke shared between a couple who are not just "together" but who are friends as well as real lovers.

I've suggested a million different things to do together to wake him up and re-engage in something other than work, he'll take a stab at a talkitive spree for a few moments once every so often but I just feel the fakery in it. He always makes excuses for not trying new things. But he's always home when he says and even though the shine has gone out of the sex he still wants it twice a week.

I'd almost be relieved if he'd have an affair with someone else..Then I wouldn't feel so guilty for being so bummed out by what's happening. I've spoken to a therapist about it and asked him if he'd go and he just falls back on. This is how it is after 20 years...

I've never shared these thoughts with anyone else. Most of my girl friends from the city where I use to live would tell me to, "shut up" because most of them are involved in one sort of break up or another.


I have a number of male friends but am always afraid of opening up about this because they'd think I was, "coming on to them" In the small town I live in you can't even be seen talking to another man or eyebrows raise... It's pathetic, I know and NOT at all what I'm use too.
I hesitate inviting my male friends to come and visit because of the small minded nonsense...My husband dismisses it, because after 20 years of marriage....He went into a coma...

I feel quilty for feeling this sense of loss or emptiness in my life. Other folks are having it much harder. But this empiness is bugging the crap out of me. I'm not in my 20's anymore but I'm not dead yet, either. I don't want to go bunji-jumping. I just want to have a fun conversation with REAL warmth and some genuine meaning. I refuse to become an "old -fart" long before my time.

Now watch...I'll be the, "old-fart" of the group and no one will have an idea of what's going on. LOL

I live in "Nice-ville" and would never dare mention this to my friends and neighbors locally. Daily, I look for the large white house on the hill where they manufacture these folks who are so....nice....Khaki clad, individuals who refuse to discuss anything more risque than the next zoning board meeting or what to plant in the library, parking lot, garden.

I hate to admit it but I really think I am dieing from...."niceness"
It's smothering me....

It feels so good just typing it all out! Even though it's probably wayyy too long.
 
Why don't you ask him if he would be interested in exploring each other sexually a bit more? Try new positions, toys, etc?

You mentioned that you have sex every Wednesday and Sunday. Often when sex becomes "scheduled," it becomes a bit mundane, almost like an activity that you simply jot down in your to-do book and mark off the list when completed.

Normally, I wouldn't suggest sex as a fix, but in this case... I think that opening a bit or exploring each other sexually is a great way for a couple to reflame their marriage/relationship. So try having spontaneous sex, maybe on Monday morning! Take a shower together! Have sex in the bathroom at your favorite restaurant! Invite the neighbors! OK, those last two might be extreme, but I think you get my point.

Ultimately, communication is key, however. If you're not taking the time to talk to each other about your relationship, then of COURSE you're going to end up on different wavelengths. You could try sitting together down once a month to simply sit, look into each other's eyes, and discuss your marriage!

Your husband is wrong about marriage, also. Marriages aren't "supposed" to be less intense after 20 years. It all comes back to how much each person is putting into the relationship. If you both just sit back and let the relationship run itself, then yeah, it's going to die out. It takes EFFORT and WORK to keep the fire alive. It takes creativity and spontaniety and lots of awesome sex. lol

I hope some of this helped a bit. :)
 
Badjedidude--
LOL @ neighbors...They're in their 70's, She uses a walker and frequently smells of essence of Ben-Gay He's deaf and refuses to use a hearing aid...Kinky huh! But did I mention they are both extremely....nice.....

I suggested to hubs, just last night, that we go to the beach to do our Sun. night routine and he informed me that couples our age and in our "social position" simply do not do things of that nature.....That wasn't the first time I've been treated to that speech either.

I bought some, "goodies" on-line a few months ago....I was amazed at the gizzmo's they have now! Wayyy more interesting than what use to show up at the, "Naughty-Nighty" parties the girls use to throw back in the city!

They arrived and when I spread them out said, "Whatcha think?" He wrinkled his eyebrows and said he didn't think it was, "appropriate" for couples of our age to use such things. I never thought sex was suppose to be, "appropriate!"

I have no idea when he lost all sense of adventure and fun...Maybe he never had any and I'm just now noticing...That would make me a very slow learner, I suppose. But we were always running, work, kids......lather-rinse-repeat, everyday. There was no time or opportunity for this creativity. I think I was too tired to notice my shine was fading. Now the kids are in college and the door is open for some adventure and he is stuck in "folks our age thoughts peppered with this appropriatness nonsense and all hung up on his current position in society...whatever the Hell that means. We aren't holding down a, Bill Gates lifestyle, or anything. Just regular people in...Nice-ville......

It has something to do with THIS town...I just know it...Maybe it's something in the water...
 
Badjedidude said:
Your husband is wrong about marriage, also.

No, he isn't wrong - not exactly. You aren't exactly "wrong" either, Steve.


Badjedidude said:
Marriages aren't "supposed" to be less intense after 20 years.

That is subjective I'm afraid. It's his "opinion." He needs to be made aware that things CAN be different.
In my opinion, the "sparkle" does indeed fade, and what's left can be just as lovely. People change as they grow older - some for the better, others not so much, but everyone changes and the dynamics of a relationship (marriage) changes.

Badjedidude said:
It all comes back to how much each person is putting into the relationship. If you both just sit back and let the relationship run itself, then yeah, it's going to die out. It takes EFFORT and WORK to keep the fire alive.

Ok this one I completely agree with you on. It takes WORK - lots of work, especially once two people have become "comfortable" with each other. Don't get me wrong...feeling comfortable with your partner as an AWSOME experience. But, it can lead to taking each other for granted.


Nina: Have you actually sat your husband down and told him EXACTLY how you feel? I don't mean that you're "unsatisfied" either. Have you been very SPECIFIC in how your needs and desires have changed? Have you asked him the same? Asked him what HIS needs and desires are?
(I'm in no way suggesting you haven't BTW.)
Two people have to be willing to communicate. On this, Badjedidude and I seem to agree 100%. :D

And before you tell me I'm wrong on any of this, Steve, recall which one of us has been married, and how many times we've been married, lol. :p

Good luck, Nina. It sounds like your husband is a decent person, but even decent, kind men can be rather hard-headed and OBTUSE at times.
I hope he listens and you guys can head in the right direction.
 
Nina said:
I bought some, "goodies" on-line a few months ago....

They arrived and when I spread them out said, "Whatcha think?" He wrinkled his eyebrows and said he didn't think it was, "appropriate" for couples of our age to use such things. I never thought sex was suppose to be, "appropriate!"

Holy hell, lmao, you probably scared the hell out of him! :p lol, some men need to be eased into trying new things.

"Here, honey, you just take these beads and place them in your...."

"and you just slide this ring around your...."

lol, yeah, maybe being a little more subtle might be more to his liking.

omg I'm still chuckling....
 
Nina said:
Daily, I look for the large white house on the hill where they manufacture these folks who are so....nice....Khaki clad, individuals who refuse to discuss anything more risque than the next zoning board meeting or what to plant in the library, parking lot, garden.

Almost forgot...lmao@ Stepford Husbands. :p Nice one, Nina!
 
EveWasFramed--
I have sat him down, numerous times and at first, I was very gentle in voicing my thoughts and his answer was..."why fix what isn't broken?" Then I got a bit more specific and he went into the, "couples OUR age and in OUR social position( I never once suggested we have sex in front of the 'social masses, in ANY position')" He keeps saying that we've reached a certain point in our lives and what we have has been fine for 20 years and he still finds it fine and so I must just need a new hobby. I garden, paint, volunteer at a nursing home and the local hospital, work part time at the school as a substitute teacher and last year I tutored HS seniors in Algebra and Geometry. I'm busy but still feel this lack-luster shadow has fallen over my life and I know some of it is the lack-luster attitude he's taken. I asked him what he'd like to do differently and he said..."nothing"

The toys did make him look a little worried.

He is a decent man. He's Nice too. My nice Stepford husband...I feel like I'm living in a Stephen King Novel...
 
EveWasFramed said:
And before you tell me I'm wrong on any of this, Steve, recall which one of us has been married, and how many times we've been married, lol.

Hahaha I wouldn't dream of contradicting you, my dear.

Unless you're wrong. ;) hehe but seriously, I agree with most of what you said. :)

Nina said:
They arrived and when I spread them out said, "Whatcha think?" He wrinkled his eyebrows and said he didn't think it was, "appropriate" for couples of our age to use such things. I never thought sex was suppose to be, "appropriate!"

He sounds like a proper, reserved gentleman...and there's nothing wrong with that, except the problem with that is that he perhaps doesn't realize that women sometimes need their men to be beasts. In my opinion, there's no real need to be "appropriate" in the privacy of your own bedroom (or wherever you do it ;)). Sex is about enjoying each other, having fun, exploring, making mistakes, etc etc.

I'm afraid that you're going to have to get very very blunt in this matter. You're probably going to have to tell him straight to his face that you feel like he isn't interested in you anymore, specifically sexually or intimately. Explain that maybe HE doesn't need those things, but that YOU do, and for the relationship to continue to work, some action will be needed. I'm not saying that you should give him an ultimatum or something, but... make it VERY CLEAR that you feel that the relationship isn't what it should be, and that you'd like to work together with him to try some new things.

I think the problem is that he's hung up on pre-concieved notions of social behavior between the sexes. Maybe he had a father and mother who were cold to each other? Maybe he was brought up in a strict moral environment such as Catholic/convent school or something? Whatever the reason, he's obviously operating on his beliefs that for some reason society is watching his conduct, EVEN in the safety and privacy of your own home. It sounds like your husband is holding himself to a personal standard that won't allow behavior that he sees as being "beneath" his current position... so really, the standard he's holding himself to is the enemy here.

I believe that if you can gently bring him out of this, then he'd come to enjoy the new spark that getting closer and more intimate would bring into your lives. It's not that he's not interested in you, I don't think. It just sounds like he's hung up on a moral code that he's learned that won't allow him to cut loose and become more inhibited.

It might help to gently attack his view of "appropriate" behavior. Ask him why two people your age can't explore each other more fully. Ask him how that's inappropriate or degrading to the relationship, and emphasize that more contact and closeness with each other would lead to a better marriage. It might also be a good idea to start slowly, by having sex on different days of the week and at random times. :) Once he's used to the idea that sex can occur ANYTIME, he might start to enjoy the idea of doing it more.

Well, I hope most of what I said isn't already stuff you've tried.. I really want to hear that this story turned out alright for you. :) Keep us informed, yeah? lol *hugs*
 
Badjedi--I think that sounds like excellent advice and has given me some new ideas for how to approach this. I do think a gentle and questioning approach may be a new tactic. I do think he is a bit trapped by some fragments from his youth and some very ingrained morality that might be giving him pause now. His parents are VERY reserved...Thanks. I never thought I'd be hashing this all out on-line but I'm glad I did. Support and honest disclosure helps! If he doesn't listen to me would you mind dropping him an e-mail? Just kidding...I can't find my smiley faces to post...Oh well :)
 
Glad I wasn't the only one remembering Stepford :p

I'm not really qualified to advise on marriage, but I hope he wisens up. There's no reason for people to burn out in their older years just because they're past 30. And 'social position'? Give me a break, lol.
 
Hey Nina,

I am sorry, but after watching my parents for the past 23 years, I gotta say that he is full of nonesense. Your husband sounds just plain boring... If the scenery won't change, perhaps you should change the scene...

Oh well, what do I know. Not like you can just drop everything when you have been married for 20 years and have children. But then again, you can. You only live once, there is no reason you that you should be unhappy.
 
Brodie said:
Hey Nina,

I am sorry, but after watching my parents for the past 23 years, I gotta say that he is full of nonesense. Your husband sounds just plain boring... If the scenery won't change, perhaps you should change the scene...

Oh well, what do I know. Not like you can just drop everything when you have been married for 20 years and have children. But then again, you can. You only live once, there is no reason you that you should be unhappy.

I kind of agree with this. There must be something you two can do together. Because honestly, I'd hate to see two people split apart because of boredom. Especially when there's so many fun things you could do. But, you shouldn't be unhappy just because he doesn't want to change. He should care about how you feel about it.
 
Nina said:
I've been here for a little under a week and from all the reading I've done, I actually feel that I am getting to know some posters. My heart has been touched in so many ways, by so many of your words. I get so caught up in reading, I forget to post replies.

Sometimes, I'm so overcome with the words of others, I doubt I'd have anything of import to add to the threads.
I've said in another thread that my, "nice" life has lost it's shine and some good suggestions came my way and I am persuing a number of them.

I was just reading the threads on relationships and sexual frustration and I have a different slant on the issues being discussed. This is another area in my life where the shine has faded to a, wax build-up on a humid, overcast day:

My husband is an ambitious workaholic. He's a really...nice man... Every Wed. and Sun....like clockwork...we have sex. It's ...nice....But it is completely empty. We exchange empty words and go through the motions. He claims that after 20 years of marriage, nothing shines....It's not suppose to..according to him....
I still want my shine, **** it!
Am I selfish to want my life to shine again? I'm not sure when it stopped shinning. I think it's been gradual and it finally became pronounced enough that I noticed it in and amongst all the other hectic events that go into a life. I don't need extravagant anythings. Just the warmth of a real conversation and a joke shared between a couple who are not just "together" but who are friends as well as real lovers.

I've suggested a million different things to do together to wake him up and re-engage in something other than work, he'll take a stab at a talkitive spree for a few moments once every so often but I just feel the fakery in it. He always makes excuses for not trying new things. But he's always home when he says and even though the shine has gone out of the sex he still wants it twice a week.

I'd almost be relieved if he'd have an affair with someone else..Then I wouldn't feel so guilty for being so bummed out by what's happening. I've spoken to a therapist about it and asked him if he'd go and he just falls back on. This is how it is after 20 years...

I've never shared these thoughts with anyone else. Most of my girl friends from the city where I use to live would tell me to, "shut up" because most of them are involved in one sort of break up or another.


I have a number of male friends but am always afraid of opening up about this because they'd think I was, "coming on to them" In the small town I live in you can't even be seen talking to another man or eyebrows raise... It's pathetic, I know and NOT at all what I'm use too.
I hesitate inviting my male friends to come and visit because of the small minded nonsense...My husband dismisses it, because after 20 years of marriage....He went into a coma...

I feel quilty for feeling this sense of loss or emptiness in my life. Other folks are having it much harder. But this empiness is bugging the crap out of me. I'm not in my 20's anymore but I'm not dead yet, either. I don't want to go bunji-jumping. I just want to have a fun conversation with REAL warmth and some genuine meaning. I refuse to become an "old -fart" long before my time.

Now watch...I'll be the, "old-fart" of the group and no one will have an idea of what's going on. LOL

I live in "Nice-ville" and would never dare mention this to my friends and neighbors locally. Daily, I look for the large white house on the hill where they manufacture these folks who are so....nice....Khaki clad, individuals who refuse to discuss anything more risque than the next zoning board meeting or what to plant in the library, parking lot, garden.

I hate to admit it but I really think I am dieing from...."niceness"
It's smothering me....

It feels so good just typing it all out! Even though it's probably wayyy too long.

wow.
 
You know, Nina, this isn't a million miles from how my partner and I split up. She felt that I had essentially become staid and boring; I thought she was basically suffering from the seven-year itch. Who of us was right? Well, both of us, I suppose. From her point of view, it was pretty clear that I had become too involved in my work, and hadn't been paying her enough attention; from my point of view, I felt she was too ready to end a relationship without giving either of us a chance to work it out. Still, it's over now, and there's no regrets either way.

One thing hindsight has taught me is that it may well have been better if I had taken more time to see it from her point of view. You know, I think that is one of the best ways to make a relationship work - to take time to see it from your partner's point of view. So I would suggest that if you get the chance, maybe have a sit down with your Sig Other, and ask him what he wants from his marriage to you. Don't be content if he just comes up with some distracted excuse; make him say what he REALLY wants - sexually, intimately, personally. Make it clear that no topic is off limits; make it clear that he can trust you completely. Now, it's possible that he may really want nothing more than what is already there...in which case, well I guess you're both just going to have to deal with that somehow. But maybe there IS something he wants, but has been conditioned so that he is afraid to say it. And if he opens up, and you open up ... well, perhaps you can work something out.

One other option - but it's risky, so it's up to you. You say he still likes having sex with you, albeit regularly - so have you thought about deploying the HNB (Housewives' Nuclear Bomb)? That is - no sex. Make him want it, but don't give it. Be a bit of a ***** about it. Tell him you want more from this relationship, and that if he's not prepared to give it, then you're gonna give him less than he's already getting. And should he open up to you, make him wait a little bit longer ... maybe dress a bit bit sexier, too. Get him wild, angry, nervous and frustrated, and if it leads to heated argument...well, then would be the time to seduce him. And afterwards, tell him that you know he enjoyed the wildness of it...and that you know the spark hasn't yet faded...that the passionate intensity is still there. In any case, I'm sure you'd know what to say.

Of course, it could backfire massively - there is a possibility that he could be content with no sex. I guess it's all down to how well you know your husband. If you think the HNB could work on him, then go for it. If you're unsure, then I guess it's up to you to figure out what you're prepared to lose if it doesn't work out.

Good luck, anyway.
 
Good morning everyone, I'm a firm believer that there is no point in asking advice unless you're willing to give some of the suggestions a try. That's what I did last night. I sat the hubs down after dinner and very gently but directly poured the whole thing out. Long story short. He told me it was me who was changing and from his stand point it was no more than some, "silly phase" I was going through. It is his opinion, that he has always been a very serious person, not prone to my, "artsey nonsense and whimsical ways." He also said that I needed to face facts, that after 20 years of his being just fine, I need to "come to my senses" and realize that this is pure "foolishness." Needless to say, I was stunned. I feel utterly dismissed, overlooked and completely disregarded.

I have always been a low maintenance sort of gal. I worked as a teacher, saved money, never did the shop-a-holic thing, never cheated or even thought of it, never been naggy or bitchy. I always supported his intense focus on his work and have nothing but deep appreciation for all of his accomplishments and dedication. We moved 400 miles out of the city, away from ALL my friends and family 4 years ago, to persue HIS dreams of living in the county. Though I was perfectly content in the condo, I was fine with it. Flexability is good right? I left my job and had no problem finding my place in this community. Though, as I have said, folks here are wayyy different than my city friends. They are very....nice....but I haven't made any really intimate or even close friends that I could hash this out with. They love to talk town issues and environmental concerns and that's great, it's just that I have reached a point in my own issues, where discussing what's next on the. Planning Boards agenda isn't really floating my rowboat.

We're both in our 40's me early, him late. Neither of us are supermodels but we are a long way from waiting around to die either. I don't want this man to become some party animal. I'm not one myself. I just want him to laugh and have some fun. I left my whole circle of support so he could have the experience of a two-car garage and a big lawn. He could extend an occassional smile that seems more like happiness and less like some pained expression.

I have 5 very close friends, from as far back as HS days, but they are all going through huge problems in their own worlds. One is going blind from diabetes and another is in the middle of a really, blood thirsty divorce, yet another is in a deep depression...I try to reach out to them and they're very quick to tell me MY issue is no "biggy" then they go right back to off-loading their worries, fears etc...This is fine, I've always been there for my friends, but when does it get to be my turn for a few moments of turn-around? Again....I feel dismissed and disregarded. I beginning to think that my issue is far deeper than just losing the shine off of my world. Somehow I've become an invisible non-entity...

On a more cheerful note. Thanks to all who responed. I do take ALL suggestions seriously. I don't care how young or old the person is. If you've had the life experiences to be here, your words and thoughts have value to me...It's nice to have folks to run this by who I don't have to face at the local market or post office. Nice-ville folks says all the proper words to your face but I always get this gut feeling that gossip abounds in the right circles. I just haven't made it past small talk about the planning board yet. Half the folks in this town went to grade-school together. I may always be an outsider....
 
^^Nina, your husband has made it very clear what he thinks about you and your 'artsy ways'. Did you make it clear what you think about him?
 
Just_some_Dude--
Wow, indeed. LOL... You have to try to forgive me. I was a HS teacher for 16 years and I can be very guilty of going into overkill with explanations. I spent too many years trying to get kids to communicate more effectivly and now I've probably become long-winded...

Electric_Fusilier--
First off, I'm sorry you had to go through that. I must say that from the times you've commented on my threads and from others comments of yours I've read, you sound anything but boring.
I LOVED HNB...I dare say that instead of huns and my usual, "insert bodypart A into Body part B session." I may sling a HNB and take my "silly phase and all my artsey and whimsical foolishness and head for a good, "pout" at the beach while hubs and Mr. Lefty get reacquainted...
After that talk, that man may never get laid by this foolish, artsy and whimsical woman again...

Electric_F--
I didn't want to blow up in an emotional outburst. I've seen too many folks, say things in the heat of the moment and then later, deeply regret it. I'm afraid if I would have really pulled out the stops, I would have walked out...for good...But 20 years is a long time to fold on because of one hurtful conversation.

I did tell him I was shocked and very hurt by his thoughts. I did tell him that I didn't think it was being "foolish or whimsical," to expect him to be a decent companion and exert some effort in meeting my needs for a husband with a personality a bit, more interesting then a paper weight. He wasn't impressed, said something on the line of, " Don't be ridiculous." He just thinks this needs to be dismissed. I have no idea where he got the notion I was a petulant, 5 year old child. I never treated our own children with that sort of indifference when they were 5.
 
Just a word about the HNB, if you're thinking of deploying it - make it clear that you still love and care for your husband. This is very important, because he may come to believe that you no longer love him. Remember, he has told you that he thinks you are changing - and a HNB that's too cold may, in his view, only confirm what he believes. So make it clear that there's no sex on the menu - but it can be there if he wants it, provided your conditions are met. Still be kind and funny to him - or how you would normally behave when expressing everyday affection. But when it comes to the sex, then it's currently a no-go, and make sure he knows why.

As I said, it's only a suggestion. I do not know your husband, so I don't know how he'll react to it. It's all down to you, and what you know about him...

Nina said:
I didn't want to blow up in an emotional outburst. I've seen too many folks, say things in the heat of the moment and then later, deeply regret it. I'm afraid if I would have really pulled out the stops, I would have walked out...for good...But 20 years is a long time to fold on because of one hurtful conversation.

Those are the words of one **** fine wife, there. Your husband really is being very foolish.
 
Electric_F
At this point I can't even imagine constructing a rational and well balanced plan. My feelings are too raw and wounded. I will be side-stepping Wed. nights "session" simply because right now, the idea of his touching me makes me feel ill.

The more I replay it in my mind the more the words, narcissistic and self absorbed keep hitting me. I've always been a strong, independent sort. I was never the sort of wife who simply followed behind and played "Yes-person" to him. But, I wasn't difficult or abrasive either. I fully accepted and supported him, for who HE was never tried to alter him to fit my expectations. I don't know how I missed the fact that he has so little respect or regard for who I am, or even recognizes the relative importance of discovering who I am or am becoming. I have to admit that today...I'm even wondering who this man is....Has he been this dismissive and self revolving all along??? I simply don't know. I have to stay calm and really evaluate this whole situation.

Thanks for the kudos on being a decent wife....It's nice, but sort of sad at the same time, when a person you've spoken with on a screen sees something a man you've been with and supported for 20 years completely misses....
 
Nina, I don't think it's you are the one who's being narcissitic and self-absorbed here...

I don't think it's too much to ask of a partner that they show a little more affection and interest in their SO. Sometimes, it can be difficult...people can get tired from their work, and sometimes there's just too much to do, and it kind of falls by the wayside. Your husband certainly seems adamant that nothing is wrong, and that the problem apparently lies with you. Strange...he must surely see that something is upsetting you - is he really being that cold about it?
 

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