If Men Like Only Hot Women, Where Does That Leave an Average Woman Like Me?

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"Dear Evan,

Why do dating experts for men teach them how to get the hottest women possible? Unlike women, they are rarely told to date someone they might not find attractive at first because she might grow on him. As an average looking woman (I am fit, well-groomed and fashionable, but I know that I am not a bombshell. I don’t make people gag, but I don’t turn heads either.), I feel that no man is going to find me desirable because all men feel that they deserve and can get the hottest woman out there. Just where does that leave women like me?

Tia-Maria"

"Here’s an excerpt from Why You’re Still Single:

“I am not suggesting that men are pure objects of lust with all the depth of a bathtub. Nor am I suggesting that men don’t have the ability to love and accept any physical imperfections. They can and they do.

Just not as much as women. At least in my experience as a dating coach where I have the unique privilege of being given access to some of my clients’ online dating accounts. And after years of doing this, I’m still flabbergasted that no matter how unattractive a man is – no matter how little hair is on his head, or how much on his back – he STILL has the same twentysomething supermodels on his favorites list as if he was Colin Farrell.

Yes, Shallow Hal lives – and I believe he lives in a majority of American men. Men who are 5s want women who are 10s. And women who are 5s are often left out in the cold, at least in L.A., where I live…

If anybody should be judged harshly, it’s men for refusing to let women age gracefully. Most men do not break out of gender roles and societal expectations. So while you may know a handful of men who don’t care about looks, they are rarities. They are the gold standard, the type that every woman should be striving to date. But if you’re under the illusion that they grow on trees, it’s time to wake up and smell the Kiehl’s anti-aging lotion. The number of guys who are “above” the whole looks thing may fill a classroom, but not a stadium, and definitely not a big enough portion of the male population to suggest any type of trend.

In a weak moment, I bet that even the most non-judgmental guy around would say that he wants a mind, soul, and body connection – but only if she takes care of her body.

So, Tia-Maria, why do dating experts tell men how to get the hottest women possible? …"

Source: http://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/if-men-like-hot-women-where-does-that-leave-an-average-woman/

Very interesting...reason why I posted this is because I searched it up after someone told me that I am very plain...oh so very, very, very, VERRRRYYYY plain...and it's true. I'm invisible even though I work hard to stand out or "be myself" or whatever...kind of disheartening...but an interesting read that might enlighten or make men and women think...


Here's another thing that sounds like me:

"Are you plain; does it ever depress you?

I’m very plain looking. I’m thin and I workout and sometimes when I have a pretty dress and high heels on, I think that I might get some flirty eyes from men, but men never look at me that way. Usually I’m fine with it; I really never think about it. But, today I went out with a female friend and she got so much male attention and two men even came up to her and gave her business cards. I didn’t even know there were women who lived like this. I guess it could get annoying, but I was so jealous and I felt very depressed about being so plain looking.

I’ve lived 29 years in this beauty obsessed culture. I wish I could feel what it’s like just once to be beautiful. Most of the time, I never think about it, but sometimes I really grieve not being pretty. How do others deal with this?
I’ve only gotten 3 answers to this question and I’m already annoyed. I just hate it when people say to accentuate your features. I already do that to the best of my abilities. I know a lot of women who do this and trust me there are men who judge them harshly everyday or don’t even give them a second look. There is absolutely nothing in the world I could ever ever ever do to get the kind of attention that my friend got today. She is beautiful and men like to look at her and flirt with her. That was not my lot in life; my genetics did not conspire to make me attractive. No haircut or lip gloss is going to make a difference. Sometimes that makes me sad. I’ve never broached the subject with any of my female friends b/c it would be awkward as ass to say “how do you deal with being plain.” I just wanted to know if other people feel this way."

To be honest...I gave up a while about dating...the fish aren't biting and I do my best to focus on myself only...just kinda sucks that without any wrongdoing I'm reminded of how undesirable I am...it's a really bad feeling I get in my chest...just feel bad about myself...:( Wish people would not wake me up from this happy fantasy life I try to lead...things like this, I just try to shove it in the back of my mind because the truth...I can't handle the truth...

Source: http://eddie.web.id/beauty-business-cards/are-you-plain-does-it-ever-depress-you.html
 
The concept of a "hot woman" differs in every mens mind. I see this clearly all over the internet, there are man who like fat girls, muscular girls, even plain girls. Just look around the categories of porn sites :p

What's ugly to one men is beautiful to another. Unless your self-stem is too low and you decide to hate yourself, looking average shouldn't be a problem...
 
I hate the notion of people giving each other numbers to rate their attractiveness, as Felix said the concept of attractiveness differs with each person, if anything giving numbers to people based solely on their looks is a shallow and unattractive quality.

At the end of the day give me a woman who can smile, laugh and put up with my occasional excursions into Nerd Kingdom and I’m a happy man, everything else is irrelevant and no-one is ever average.
 
I think it can be considered in two ways.

First is to acknowledge that it is unfortunate that there will always be some people who will be more attractive to others. "Conventionally attractive", is still nonetheless true of being attractive to point. Men do seem to be much more responsive to this and I can't help it.

But even so, we are always attractive to others for specific things about ourselves. As Felix notes, people have vast and different tastes. So its hardly a doomed mark.
 
I've missed some plain-looking girls when I was a teenager, but by now I regret it. That's not to say I don't like beautiful women, we all do. I find that women tend to become more beautiful like blooming flowers if loved and treated right :)

It could be just in my mind, but it is true.
 
Beware: This post contains gross generalizations but seriously wtf? The OP is looking for that and the excerpt in the OP contains many of them as well.

Attractiveness for guys generally seems to go like this.

1) Are you fat?
No = Good to go.
Yes = There's still a subset of guys that are into that but at least weight is something that can be changed.

And that's just about it. Sure some people are more attractive than others but as far as "willing to give a chance" goes, this is generally it. (Or so it seems from myself and any guy friends or random guys I've talked about women with. I've never seen anyone checking out any fat girls, and I've never heard anyone express being attracted to it.)

I honestly think it's just a fat thing in general. People see obese people as sexless entities that are easily ignored or reserved for "last resort" type scenarios.
 
kamya said:
Attractiveness for guys generally seems to go like this.

1) Are you fat?
No = Good to go.
Yes = There's still a subset of guys that are into that but at least weight is something that can be changed.

And that's just about it. Sure some people are more attractive than others but as far as "willing to give a chance" goes, this is generally it. (Or so it seems from myself and any guy friends or random guys I've talked about women with.)

I honestly think it's just a fat thing in general. People see obese people as sexless entities that are easily ignored or reserved for "last resort" type scenarios.

There are many factors that account for physical attraction, and while weight may be among them, I hardly think it's the primary one. Certainly not to the degree that you indicate. Your premise would seem to to suggest that a woman would be found physically attractive enough to be "given a chance" by most men just by virtue of being skinny, which I find rather silly.
 
So far as I've seen the women I consider to be within my league consider me out of their league and treat me in a rather platonic way, and since I'm not much of a flirt, well...

And the women who are out of my league may find me physically attractive, but are obviously out of my league...

I think we like to pretend as humans with egos that superficialness doesn't matter, but in reality, a healthy outward appearance is either a sign of virility or fertility.

You are not some seperate entity enclosed and encapsulated in body. You ARE that body and part of that body is your mind.

Would you date the man most mentally compatible with you if he was in a coma? I mean sure if he was your husband you might wait a year at the most to a lifetime depending on your devotion and current prospects, but would you actively go to hospitals (if you could) and try to date some one in a coma based on the persons likes and dislikes you saw on a facebook page?

The answer is no, you wouldn't. Why? The reason you wouldn't is that this persons physical presence is as close as you can get to being dead without actually being dead. Or maybe I'm wrong, and I've stumbled upon something!?

It's very difficult to rise above the distinction between outward and inward when you are constantly making it. I do this myself, but...
It's not the case...

You are not how you look and you don't look how you are, because you are just you, heh.

It's easy to get jelous of some one's attention to their physique when you have no understanding of what comes with that.

Just as it's easy to be jelous of those with money, when you have no idea what goes into how to earn it and how to manage it properly.
I mean the funny thing is, we tend to think the poor gripe more about the wealthy, but plenty of the wealthiest people in America are jealous of what they perceive to be free rides of those in poverty, when in fact they pay as little money as they can to get as many of the same free rides they are equally entitled to, but they often have to work at it where for others, the expenditure of time, money, and effort is much less. Anyway, I digress...

Every man is entitled to his desire to mate with the most physically healthy and fertile female possible. The same as every female is entitled to desire the most physically healthy, viril, and protective man they can find to ensure the survival of their offspring. But the wrench in the gears is that, some of us are more fit for procreation than others, in a myriad of different ways that incorporates both physical healthiness as well as mental acuity, dexterity, etc.. etc..

I myself am quite traditionally masculine, however, I possess many femine traits. For me, in the work place, for my entire life, I always have been the lower wage earner, superceded by my female counter parts who earn more and typically work harder. I don't mind doing the dishes at home, I can cook a decent meal, I talk about my feelings way more than any man should be allowed to without getting in trouble due to the status quo of gender roles, etc... etc...

So, I'm not even sure what I'm talking about anymore, but... There is a point in there some where. *scratches head*

All I know is the grass is usually always greener, so, I tend to just stay on the bridge and watch people pass back and forth, or at least try to...
 
WTF....
A dating coach that cant get a fucken date for herself???
Oh yeah..that's like taking advice from a bunch of lonely people on being socialable. :p

Errr!!!
errr.jpg
 
mintymint said:
kamya said:
Attractiveness for guys generally seems to go like this.

1) Are you fat?
No = Good to go.
Yes = There's still a subset of guys that are into that but at least weight is something that can be changed.

And that's just about it. Sure some people are more attractive than others but as far as "willing to give a chance" goes, this is generally it. (Or so it seems from myself and any guy friends or random guys I've talked about women with.)

I honestly think it's just a fat thing in general. People see obese people as sexless entities that are easily ignored or reserved for "last resort" type scenarios.

There are many factors that account for physical attraction, and while weight may be among them, I hardly think it's the primary one. Certainly not to the degree that you indicate. Your premise would seem to to suggest that a woman would be found physically attractive enough to be "given a chance" by most men just by virtue of being skinny, which I find rather silly.

Take whatever physical factor that matters more than weight. Breasts, ass, neck, face, legs, whatever. Now whatever feature that is on your ideal partner, add 100 pounds to their body. Are they still going to be anywhere close to as physically attractive? I'm willing to bet that for a lot of guys, most of the time that answer is no.

Most chicks probably wouldn't be super physically attracted to a 5 foot tall guy. Take a guy that women find really sexy and take a foot or two away from his height. Suddenly he's not so sexy anymore. It will be the same as weight for most guys. It's just how it is.

Luckily physical attraction isn't everything. And like I said, the posts I'm making are going to be full of generalizations because that seems to be what the OP is looking for.
 
I'm not going to read all of that, I'm just going to say on the tread title alone if that were true there would be a lot more single guys out there. That is just so much bull alone. I deal with the public on a daily basis and have seen average to what many would call unattractive people who are married, have kids. I think the question here is how high are the individuals expectations. So many times I see these topics (not just here either) yet the ones complaining have high expectations themselves.

There are many guys who'd like to have a woman no matter what she looked like as long as she was genuine and carrying.

And like women don't like hot men either, it goes both ways. It's so annoying to see guys always stereotyped like that. Like we're nothing but Jessica Rabbit chasing dogs.
 
Felix said:
The concept of a "hot woman" differs in every mens mind. I see this clearly all over the internet, there are man who like fat girls, muscular girls, even plain girls. Just look around the categories of porn sites :p

What's ugly to one men is beautiful to another. Unless your self-stem is too low and you decide to hate yourself, looking average shouldn't be a problem...

This. I don't know why some people think that attractiveness is the same for everyone. It's not. You may think you're plain looking - and there's nothing wrong with being plain either - but there's plenty of people who like the "plain" look. Not everyone wants a supermodel.

I also agree with this:
Sci-Fi said:
There are many guys who'd like to have a woman no matter what she looked like as long as she was genuine and carrying.

And like women don't like hot men either, it goes both ways. It's so annoying to see guys always stereotyped like that. Like we're nothing but Jessica Rabbit chasing dogs.
 
Gee, and here all this time I've been saying "if women want only hot men, and are genetically programmed to seek out and obey alpha males, then where that does leave an average guy like me?" (average is not usually a word I can get behind you see, but when I can it's as though I'm looking into a mirror) In that sense perhaps we are mirrors.

And my bathtub is quite deep, thank you very much. Water has life. Every washing is a spontaneous baptism. Thoughts culminate like bubbles. Indeed I do much of my deep thinking here. (er, I mean there. Its not as though I could surf the net in my bathtub. That would just be weird.... right?)
 
It's rating time! Lol

Lost Drifter said:
I hate the notion of people giving each other numbers to rate their attractiveness,
5/10!
Lost Drifter said:
as Felix said the concept of attractiveness differs with each person,
7/10!
Lost Drifter said:
if anything giving numbers to people based solely on their looks is a shallow and unattractive quality.
3/10!

Lost Drifter said:
At the end of the day give me a woman who can smile, laugh and put up with my occasional excursions into Nerd Kingdom and I’m a happy man, everything else is irrelevant and no-one is ever average.
10/10!!

:D
 
Here's a group of guys proudly singing about how there are more important things than looks on a girl!

(Warning: Probably the most offensive video on the planet!)

[video=youtube]
 
the premise behind the question in the title is flawed because it assumes that all men would define "hot" in the same way

also, the first post (quoted, i assume) is idiotic and completely false

if a woman is "fit, well-groomed, and fashionable" then she is certain to "turn heads". unless of course, she knows this to be untrue as verified by the eyes in the back of her head.

nexxxxxt please, this article is retarded
 
to answer the OP's question.....

The average women are just gonna have to settle for basturds rejects like me :p

From my own personal experince.....(if I was going to base it off of looks alone)
Even if it's not everything. Looks dose matter in the culture and society I live in.

While I may not fit into the profile of Mr GQ...
In everyday's life on the average, Im on the upper side of things, even at my age.
Most of the men i see are over wieght, immature and lack decent personalities.
And I do use it to my avantage becuase my buddy is over wieght and lack personality
that women finds tasteful.
The chioces avaliable to the women....They'll simply choose me over him and 95% of
the rest of the dudes in the room. Thats been the pattern in my life.
Some Women make themselves avaliable to me for reasons. They find me attractive
and sexy. I've been told this by plenty of women.
Wheather they're just complimenting me or flirting with me. It's still a vey positive
thing for me. It re-enforces my confidence even more.
Positive begets positive.....

At the sametime....90% of the women I see, simply dosnt fit the profile of a cover girl
and are over wieght. And generally..it's the fat ugly chicks with little to no socialible skills
that are the one that's complaining and judgmental.

Given the chioces of a fat ugly chick that's complaining or a pretty/average chick with a positive attitude,
What would I choose???? The pretty chicks with a positive attitude....anyday.
 
I liked the response the OP's post made. On a side note Kam - "Most chicks probably wouldn't be super physically attracted to a 5 foot tall guy. Take a guy that women find really sexy and take a foot or two away from his height. Suddenly he's not so sexy anymore. It will be the same as weight for most guys. It's just how it is."

Always an exception How about those of us women extremely attracted to short men :) and brains over the size of package and humour over money
 
I would like to point out to Stars that even though her friend had two guys go up to her friend, you have to consider that the type of guy that would just walk up to a woman and give them a business card (what is going on with that anyway) are likely d-bags anyway. What I mean is, there is a certain type of guy that just walks up and gives women their business card, and that kind of guy is generally lured by good looks - you should be happy that you aren't a d-bag magnet.
 
The bad news is that it's probably true that men will only want a woman they find physically attractive, but the good news is that there's no accounting for taste. There are some women who a lot of men will find attractive, and they're lucky I suppose, but even women who are "unattractive" by society's standards are bound to attract someone physically. And I think personality holds a lot of weight--I've seen plenty of plain but spunky women outshine their prettier but duller counterparts in the dating scene.
 
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