In my mid-twenties and still single

Hey guys, greetings from Germany.

I'm male, this year I'll be 27 and I've never had a relationship. By that I mean that I've never had a girlfriend, I'm a virgin, I've never been kissed. I've never even held hands with a girl.
I've always been very shy, which changed when I went to uni, but for about 25 years I didn't pursue any relationships. It's not that I didn't want to have a girlfriend, it's just I thought that it would figure out itself somehow, that I would meet someone. I didn't socialise that much and I guess it just never happened.
And now I'm getting desperate. One and a half years ago I really fell in love for the first time. Eventually I got over the girl but my wish to have a relationship only strengthened. In the beginning I thought that finding a girlfriend wouldn't be that hard and boy was I wrong. I've been looking and looking, I've been trying to socialise, to go out a lot... nothing.

It has got to the point that I feel extremely lonely right now. I do have friends but, in a sense, this makes it even worse because most of my friends have been in stable relationships for a few years now. Some are even married! I've been having regular bouts of depression where I fee very, very lonely and alone. I just can't take it anymore.
People also keep telling me that you have to be happy before you commit to a relationship, that a relationship is sort of a bonus. I'm not sure I agree entirely with that. I have hobbies that I like, I regularly hang out with friends etc. but that's not really what I'm looking for. What I want is something that friends cannot really give. I want to be wanted, I want to be loved and I want to love. I just want to have someone to hold, to cuddle with, to get intimate with. And somehow I just can't have that.
It's been driving me nuts. I also had a scary moment recently where I felt really relieved after I thought that if I were to commit suicide I wouldn't have to deal with this anymore. My old psychotherapist told me that as long as I don't actively plan to end my life it's not as bad, though.

I've already posted in several other places and asked what I can do. Apparently there is no real solution to this kind of problem.

It also doesn't help that I've read about a statistic that claimed that people who haven't had sex until 24 will, with a very high probability, be virgins forever. Such thoughts are extremely scary to me.

I don't wanna end up alone. I feel so frightened. Several times I've tried to just shut it off, to tell myself that I can be on my own but I'm an extremely emotional person and it's impossible for me to shut out this part of myself. I cannot get myself to accept that I will be alone forever but it's looking that way. I can't stand hearing "oh, there's someone for everyone" because that is blatantly not true. From the internet, from various forums etc. I know that there are people in their 40s, 50s who started out similarly to me and never got into a relationship, that stayed alone forever. Of course there are some who are alone by choice, but there are others who are not.

One of the biggest challenges that I'm facing is the fact that I have no idea where to meet single women. I've now completed my university studies so things like student parties and uni sports are out. Not that I've met any people there. Especially sports is so unpersonal since people don't really want to deal with each other afterwards. At least that's what I've experienced.
I didn't think about dating for 25 years and so I'm on the level of a teenager when it comes to that. It also doesn't help that I have the feeling that there just aren't any single women at my age since this is already the time where everyone sort of tries to settle down and it's extremely frustrating.

Anyway, thanks for reading. Maybe someone has some comforting words of solace. Maybe someone has some advice about whether I'm doing something fundamentally wrong.
Or maybe some poor soul will stumble upon this thread with a similar problem and see that they are not alone. Misery loves company, after all, though be warned: this is only temporary. At some point that doesn't help anymore.

Take care.

Hi there,

I'm in a similar situation at 28 (although I'm a single woman so I guess that means there are some of us out there). I'm very shy when it comes to social relationships and the idea of letting on that I was ever interested in someone I find too embarrassing to admit to.

I think this becomes a bit of a self-fulfilling problem. I've seen it often written that you need to have confidence in yourself in order to meet people and get into a relationship but when you have the fact that you've always been single in your mind it really makes this difficult to overcome.

Try not to pay attention to statistics though they don't paint the whole picture. People's lives are all very different and there may be many reasons why people are single and it doesn't mean that you always will be (even if you feel that way).

Where to meet people, that's my biggest problem too. Even when you are faced with opportunities it is likely to be a bit of a lottery. I guess the options to look at are if there are any activities, meetups or clubs around you that you are interested in that you can meet people through. Aside from that there's specific dating options like speed dating or online dating (haven't tried these out myself as of yet).

I was wondering when you said you tried to go out and socialise to find a relationship how direct were you about it? As in did you generally chat to people or were you proactive in asking anyone out for example?

You could be meeting someone like next week for all you know, please stop paying attention to stupid statistics, they're irrelevant. Like Katerina said, try going to meetups, join clubs, join a gym(really, do it), yoga class,what are your hobbies? maybe you could attend classes that have something to do with that your hobby or other activities you might be interested in, hang around coffee shops, bookstores(dont forget to take your laptop with you),malls, bars, sports bars, parties,nightclubs(eh, why not) ask your friends, maybe they know a friend of a friend. Do you work? if so, have u tried meeting someone from there? go to large outdor events, go jogging where other people go as well and be aware of your surroundings. Do you have a dog? thats a huge advantage, chicks love dogs. Wear good clothes and have a nice hairstyle. Do you look angry and like a psycho? try not to lol. And why not try online dating, yeah even tinder, okcupid etc. Everyone does it.

Wow, these don't sound so bad. Maybe I should actually take my own advice.

28, turning 29 this year. In a similar position as most guys in their mid to late twenties who find myself here, so I won't bore you with the details. I will say that I'm currently dealing with a very bad crush at the moment. Given my current circumstances, it's easy to say that this is probably the last chance I'll ever have to find someone. But I have to avoid revealing my feelings simply because it's 'the right thing to do' (at least that's what I'm telling myself).

You mentioned having friends that have been in stable relationships. I feel that this is particularly relevant, as I feel that in my case, and perhaps with many of us, our marital status is affecting our frienships. See, roughtly 3 years ago, I enjoyed quite the active social life. I saw my friends quite often, we partied, we drank, we kicked ass(figuratively speaking, of course). Being in environments full of women whom I couldn't talk to scrapped at the back of my mind, but for the most part I was having fun. Gradually, those people started to get into relationships. Gradually some of those relationships stabilised. Some involved marriage, some involved kids. A friend of mine I've known since highschool married, and had two kids. Where I'd once have caught up with him on a weekly basis, now I might be lucky to see him once every 6 months. In general, I'm seeing friends less and less. And I'm being invited to less and less things, due in part to stll being 'that guy'. The world is moving on, and I know I will be left behind. And sitting here in my loungeroom, typing this post at 1 AM in the morning, the spectre of perpetual loneliness becomes all the more apparent.

Alot of people get on the soapbox here and pour their little hearts out with their sob stories hoping people will tell them, "there there. The girl of your dreams will come along someday. Don't give up yet!" (...and yes, I realise that I myself have done so in this very post. Sue me). I'm not going to insult your intelligence though. In our age bracket, on average we should either be actively dating, or be in a stable relationship. If you're approaching your mid to late 20's and you've not even had so much as one date, then sorry pal. But there's a good chance you've missed the mark.

There are two things I can suggest that might help you cope with what you're going through. The first of these is to weigh up the pros and cons of being long term single. Yes, believe it or not, there are good things about being long term single. Fincancial and personal freedom come to mind instantly. Then, ask yourself how much effort you're willing to put into getting yourself noticed, and then what you're willing to sacrifice to maintain a romantic relationship. Sit down one day with a clear head, and just brainstorm all of this. DON'T look up statistics and self-help pages online. That'll dilute your thoughts. Just..... sit down, think, and then ask yourself: Is it really worth it?

The only other thing to do, and this is something I feel alot of lost souls here should seriously consider. Don't place so much importance on finding romance. And ESPECIALLY don't place importance on getting laid. It shouldn't have to be the 'be all and end all' of everything you do in life. So many people, especially males in this situation turn to much of their mental focus on this 'goal' that their desperation ends up driving people even further a way. Turn away from this. Distract yourself with other things, and focus your interest there. Will it eventually make you more appealing to the opposite sex? Like I said, I'm not here to instill false hope, but at the very least the prospect of perpetual loneliness might be alittle less maddening.

As for me? I've come to reach a strange sense of contentment in my romantic seclusion. Loneliness is a cruel mistress to behold, and yet at the same time, is kinder than any woman could possibly be to me. I've grown so accustomed to its prescence that I actually wonder if I can function without it.

All I've got to do now, is just get over crush.......

I will split this post into several smaller posts to keep it more readable.
[edit]
Never mind, I guess this forum software merges posts.
[/edit]

Katerina said:

Hi there,

I'm in a similar situation at 28 (although I'm a single woman so I guess that means there are some of us out there). I'm very shy when it comes to social relationships and the idea of letting on that I was ever interested in someone I find too embarrassing to admit to.

I think this becomes a bit of a self-fulfilling problem. I've seen it often written that you need to have confidence in yourself in order to meet people and get into a relationship but when you have the fact that you've always been single in your mind it really makes this difficult to overcome.

Try not to pay attention to statistics though they don't paint the whole picture. People's lives are all very different and there may be many reasons why people are single and it doesn't mean that you always will be (even if you feel that way).

Where to meet people, that's my biggest problem too. Even when you are faced with opportunities it is likely to be a bit of a lottery. I guess the options to look at are if there are any activities, meetups or clubs around you that you are interested in that you can meet people through. Aside from that there's specific dating options like speed dating or online dating (haven't tried these out myself as of yet).

I was wondering when you said you tried to go out and socialise to find a relationship how direct were you about it? As in did you generally chat to people or were you proactive in asking anyone out for example?

Click to expand...

Hey Katerina,

yeah, I've seen both guys and gals who are in such a situation, though never personally. I've seen them in forums, friends told me they know people like that etc. So did you have people ask you out on dates? Social anxiety is really tough. Is there a reason why you find it embarrassing to admit that you like someone? Sorry, I don't want to pry, I'm just curious.

That confidence thing is also a problem, although I try to not let it bother. After some times it just becomes difficult to deal with rejection. Whereas most people at least have some dating experience for me there was nothing but rejection so far in my life and that hurts. A lot.

I actually tried online dating, just forgot to mention that. Things went horribly. I've contacted a few dozen women (in total, spread over several sites) but had absolutely no luck. I wasn't that picky, I just contacted anyone who seemed fun, so I could just get some experience relationship-wise and also overcome the stigma that is my virginity (since this is a total turn-off to many). On the other hand I didn't contact just anybody. I spent quite some time carefully going through the profiles, looking for common things etc. Sometimes that's really difficult though because some profiles are so sparse, there is barely anything there to go on. Or there is just a lot of really strange stuff that I can't quite describe and it becomes difficult to find a common talking point to break the ice. I guess those people just aren't seriously looking for relationships.
I've contacted quite a few women and didn't get any replies. This was in summer. I was depressed for two weeks straight. Haven't tried online dating since.
But that's online dating for you. Girls usually get way too many messages that are like "Hey, wanna have sex?" and the guys who actually try just disappear in the mass of messages.

I also downloaded an app, lovoo but there was I actually to scared to talk to anyone. I just didn't know how to go about that thing, how to contact someone, what to say, since it's even more superficial than online dating. An additional problem is that I'm still living at home. Finding a flat in the next big city is almost impossible and I'm actually looking for a flat share because I cannot bear the thought of living alone, but it's so hard. This is almost as bad as dating since you have to present yourself from your best site but be humble at the same time. I cannot deal with the constant rejection.
I guess I'll have to try speed dating at some point. Just to make sure that I've tried all the options lest it haunts me forever.

Clubs... I dunno. I keep hearing that you really shouldn't go to clubs alone because it looks weird. And all my friends are already out of that "phase". Why should they go? They all have relationships, there is no point for them. It's just that I'm left behind.
Apart from that I just don't know where to start. Meetups sounds like a good idea in general but... I have no idea how to go about that. I wouldn't even know where to start. I play guitar, I like reading, I play video games, I do yoga - none of these things are really great to meet other people. I figured that going to a yoga course would help but I ended up going there, not talking to anyone and leaving since everyone else left also. There were two girls in my age but they always left quickly, didn't even greet me and I wouldn't have known how to talk to them. What to say?
I do like dancing and I told myself that once I'd move I'll have to go to some dancing schools. Though I have to keep myself from getting my hopes up, since it's a bit of a gamble. There might be women there who like to dance and are single and who would also look for guys who are single. But it's also possible that there are only couples. It's that particular age, twenties to early thirties, where most people don't have to go out of their way to find a partner and just do whatever they want while for me it's an active concern.
And then there are people like us who, as it seems, are just out of luck for some reason.

When I socialised it varied. There were times when I actually asked someone out, like to go to the theatre. I didn't even say it in such a way that suggested a date (although implicitly, since it's two people going to the theatre, it maybe kinda is) but either the girl in particular was really weirded out and stopped talking to me or we actually went to the theatre but it kind of trailed off after that... Which is also a thing that happens sometimes. I exchange numbers or something like that and try to stay in contact but the other person stops responding and so that also doesn't go anywhere. Also she might only give me her number because she's already commited to a relationship (which I don't always know) and doesn't think much of it. I guess I never make it explicitely clear what I want but that's because I don't want to scare her off. Like I said, it's not that easy to find single girls.
Quite often when I meet new people I don't really see them on a regular basis which could justify asking them out. I'm especially afraid of their reaction, like they might be weirded out.

The big problem though is that most of the time I just don't meet any new people. Either I stay at home, I have to work, or I meet with friends. I always hear these stories "oh, we met at this theatre group/birthday party/event"... and I get the feeling that most people don't actually know how to find mates. It just... sort of happens. (well, except discos and dating sites). There is no big plan.

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Raingirl said:

You could be meeting someone like next week for all you know, please stop paying attention to stupid statistics, they're irrelevant. Like Katerina said, try going to meetups, join clubs, join a gym(really, do it), yoga class,what are your hobbies? maybe you could attend classes that have something to do with that your hobby or other activities you might be interested in, hang around coffee shops, bookstores(dont forget to take your laptop with you),malls, bars, sports bars, parties,nightclubs(eh, why not) ask your friends, maybe they know a friend of a friend. Do you work? if so, have u tried meeting someone from there? go to large outdor events, go jogging where other people go as well and be aware of your surroundings. Do you have a dog? thats a huge advantage, chicks love dogs. Wear good clothes and have a nice hairstyle. Do you look angry and like a psycho? try not to lol. And why not try online dating, yeah even tinder, okcupid etc. Everyone does it.

Wow, these don't sound so bad. Maybe I should actually take my own advice.

Click to expand...

Well, I could. But then again, I could not. I'm pretty much a pessimist when it comes to these things and given my history I'm probably in the right, too.
I asked my friends whether they can hook me up with someone but they were all disinclined to that idea. I'm currently working on a PhD thesis so I'm still at a uni but between uni and real work. You can count the girls at my institute on two hands and believe me none of them is single. And with it being a natural science it doesn't really help.
Tinder is something I will try once I move, right now it just wouldn't make much sense. Okcupid was one of the dating sites I tried and it was one huge disappointment. Maybe because it's not the biggest dating site in Germany but I tried those, too, and they were even as disappoint. They are also seriously limiting in case you're not read to pay a lot of mine. Which makes things worse because this means people in my age are not going to use this sites since they're able to find partners elsewhere. Something I cannot achieve.

I get where you're coming from but I have no idea how I would do something like... meeting someone while jogging. I just cannot see how that happens. When people go jogging socialising is the last thing on their minds. At least that's what I think. Or just going to a park, going to outdoor areas. I'm not trying to sound rude, believe me. This is not my intention at all. It's just that I have a hard time pictuing how I would actually meet people in such a way.
And yeah, my hobbies aren't really something that can help me socialise. I also thought about what I could do as a hobby where I could meet new people but I'm seriously out of ideas.
To me it just sounds... I dunno. Sitting in a coffee shop and waiting for a girl is like searching for the needle in the haystack. I imagine that people who come there want to be left alone, same thing goes for bookstores.

Again, I'm not saying your ideas are bad or something it's just I'm really bad at imagining how I could meet people in such a way. I'm just not used to socialising in such a way and thus need more clarification.

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Red_Wedding_Casualty said:

28, turning 29 this year. In a similar position as most guys in their mid to late twenties who find myself here, so I won't bore you with the details. I will say that I'm currently dealing with a very bad crush at the moment. Given my current circumstances, it's easy to say that this is probably the last chance I'll ever have to find someone. But I have to avoid revealing my feelings simply because it's 'the right thing to do' (at least that's what I'm telling myself).

You mentioned having friends that have been in stable relationships. I feel that this is particularly relevant, as I feel that in my case, and perhaps with many of us, our marital status is affecting our frienships. See, roughtly 3 years ago, I enjoyed quite the active social life. I saw my friends quite often, we partied, we drank, we kicked ass(figuratively speaking, of course). Being in environments full of women whom I couldn't talk to scrapped at the back of my mind, but for the most part I was having fun. Gradually, those people started to get into relationships. Gradually some of those relationships stabilised. Some involved marriage, some involved kids. A friend of mine I've known since highschool married, and had two kids. Where I'd once have caught up with him on a weekly basis, now I might be lucky to see him once every 6 months. In general, I'm seeing friends less and less. And I'm being invited to less and less things, due in part to stll being 'that guy'. The world is moving on, and I know I will be left behind. And sitting here in my loungeroom, typing this post at 1 AM in the morning, the spectre of perpetual loneliness becomes all the more apparent.

Alot of people get on the soapbox here and pour their little hearts out with their sob stories hoping people will tell them, "there there. The girl of your dreams will come along someday. Don't give up yet!" (...and yes, I realise that I myself have done so in this very post. Sue me). I'm not going to insult your intelligence though. In our age bracket, on average we should either be actively dating, or be in a stable relationship. If you're approaching your mid to late 20's and you've not even had so much as one date, then sorry pal. But there's a good chance you've missed the mark.

There are two things I can suggest that might help you cope with what you're going through. The first of these is to weigh up the pros and cons of being long term single. Yes, believe it or not, there are good things about being long term single. Fincancial and personal freedom come to mind instantly. Then, ask yourself how much effort you're willing to put into getting yourself noticed, and then what you're willing to sacrifice to maintain a romantic relationship. Sit down one day with a clear head, and just brainstorm all of this. DON'T look up statistics and self-help pages online. That'll dilute your thoughts. Just..... sit down, think, and then ask yourself: Is it really worth it?

The only other thing to do, and this is something I feel alot of lost souls here should seriously consider. Don't place so much importance on finding romance. And ESPECIALLY don't place importance on getting laid. It shouldn't have to be the 'be all and end all' of everything you do in life. So many people, especially males in this situation turn to much of their mental focus on this 'goal' that their desperation ends up driving people even further a way. Turn away from this. Distract yourself with other things, and focus your interest there. Will it eventually make you more appealing to the opposite sex? Like I said, I'm not here to instill false hope, but at the very least the prospect of perpetual loneliness might be alittle less maddening.

As for me? I've come to reach a strange sense of contentment in my romantic seclusion. Loneliness is a cruel mistress to behold, and yet at the same time, is kinder than any woman could possibly be to me. I've grown so accustomed to its prescence that I actually wonder if I can function without it.

All I've got to do now, is just get over crush.......

Click to expand...

About the friends thing, that's also something I am afraid of. As time moves on and all my acquaintances start getting kids it will be harder and harder for me to see them, which will make my life lonelier. I imagine that all those couples will end up doing "couples things" which means I'll be left out. Left behind.

About the pros and cons things: it doesn't work. Believe me, I tried. I TRIED. I try to tell myself "oh, there are so many positive things about this" but I don't believe myself. And that's what matters. My situation borders on depression, I fear. Not being in a relationship is often the only thing I can think about. It eats me up, it doesn't stop.
During Christmas and new years eve I spent three weeks at home and played videogames. For some reason I didn't care about anything, I wasn't depressed. When I started going back to work it hit me full force. Going out every day and seeing all those happy couples is just killing me.
Like I said, I am not that type of person that cannot ignore that. I was not made in such a way that I can be alone. This loneliness is killing me, it is driving me insane. Quite honestly, I would rather not be alive than alone. I cannot cope, I cannot deal with this. It may sound melodramatic as hell but the day I lose ALL my hope is probably going to be the day I die. (Un)Luckily I'm one stubborn guy and my strong will is the only thing that keeps me going. These past few years I've dealt a lot with anxiety, with fear and with anguish (not only because of being alone, that came recently, but also because of other things) and it's just an all around miserable life. I have no idea how much longer I can take this.

I know that you are trying to help but what you suggest... it just doesn't work for me.

Sorry to hear about that crush. So what's your story? What's going on? Don't give me that last chance nonsense. People of all ages can find a partner (yeah, I know, I'm a hypocrite for saying something I wouldn't believe for one second myself).

I'm 21, same here. And like you, I've been hearing the same things from people for years (though it seems that all of them are in stable relationships :/) "Just give it time!" "You'll find someone eventually!" "Be happy with yourself first blah blah blah". That doesn't work for me. There have been times where I've literally just said hello to a girl walking past, and she just looked at me like I was something you'd scrape off the bottom of your shoe.

I'm not saying this applies to everyone, quite the opposite in fact, but there are indeed some people on this earth who were destined from the start to stay alone. Guess I just drew the short straw on that particular regard.

You're 26? You are young and the world is wide, my friend
I have no idea if you'll find a romantic partner or not. But after reading your post, it sounds like being lonely is the problem here, not lack of a girlfriend or wife. I'm single now but have been in relationships - they don't always cure feelings of loneliness. It was only when I realized there are other paths out of loneliness besides searching for a partner that I started to feel less lonely.
Whatever happens, I hope you find what you're looking for!

-Teresa

Shiloh253 said:

I'm 21, same here. And like you, I've been hearing the same things from people for years (though it seems that all of them are in stable relationships :/) "Just give it time!" "You'll find someone eventually!" "Be happy with yourself first blah blah blah". That doesn't work for me. There have been times where I've literally just said hello to a girl walking past, and she just looked at me like I was something you'd scrape off the bottom of your shoe.

I'm not saying this applies to everyone, quite the opposite in fact, but there are indeed some people on this earth who were destined from the start to stay alone. Guess I just drew the short straw on that particular regard.

Click to expand...

SofiasMami said:

You're 26? You are young and the world is wide, my friend
I have no idea if you'll find a romantic partner or not. But after reading your post, it sounds like being lonely is the problem here, not lack of a girlfriend or wife. I'm single now but have been in relationships - they don't always cure feelings of loneliness. It was only when I realized there are other paths out of loneliness besides searching for a partner that I started to feel less lonely.
Whatever happens, I hope you find what you're looking for!

-Teresa

Click to expand...

Haha, I was just going to tell Shiloh253 something similar. "21? That's nothing, just wait until you're over 25."
I guess many people feel that way. Whereas 21 is the kind of age where, at least here, people start going to university 26 is already where it all ends. With 21 you get to meet many new people over the course of your university life, everyone is so full of energy and vibrant and after 25 it all starts to settle down. And that is what I'm afraid of. I'm afraid of being left behind, and I feel that I am. I barely know anyone who's not in a relationship and I've never even held hands with a girl.
And yes, being lonely is the problem. And I'm lonely because I don't have a girlfriend.
I've been feeling lonely for a long time and I didn't really understand why. But I know that I've been constantly telling myself "No, it's not because you never even had one single date, that's not it. You're not feeling lonely because you have no girlfriend, there's something else."
Now I realise that I've been fooling myself. I always secretly wished for a relationship but was too much of an introvert to go out and date. I lacked experience when it come to social interaction and I had incredibly low self-esteem because no girl has ever shown any interest in me when I was in school.
Everyone is different. I know that I am very emotional and very empathic and I need someone I can intimately share these feelings with. I've been longing for that for a very long time. Generally speaking throughout my life I suppressed my emotions until I couldn't hold them back. Now I'm incredibly open with people. Some are fine with it, some even embrace it, others are weirded out by that. In any case, it's still not enough.
I have a longing to be loved and to love and to be intimate with someone. Additionally to that I'm also sexually frustrated, which is even more apparent in summer.
I appreciate your words but I am rather sure in my conviction about where my loneliness comes from and what I want. In any way, I'll never be able to say for sure what it is until I've tried. But this path is constantly blocked to me.

@Shiloh
Tough break man. I wish I could help you but it seems like we're suffering from the same problem and have no idea how to solve it. All I can say is that at this age it's still not that bad. Just don't make the same mistakes I did and try to spend much more time out socialising. I wish I could tell you how to accomplish that but the truth is that I have no idea. Whatever I do doesn't work and I really doubt whether I'm at all on the right track.

True, the best thing you can do is spend as much time as you can socializing while you're still in school, because afterwards it gets so much harder. I regret I didn't care about cultivating meaningful friendships in college and just going out with people more, all I was focusing on were my studies , never realizing how much I was missing out. Now I have no friends.

Another thing you can do is travel, or move somewhere else. Start a new life, start fresh.

looking glass said:

About the friends thing, that's also something I am afraid of. As time moves on and all my acquaintances start getting kids it will be harder and harder for me to see them, which will make my life lonelier. I imagine that all those couples will end up doing "couples things" which means I'll be left out. Left behind.

About the pros and cons things: it doesn't work. Believe me, I tried. I TRIED. I try to tell myself "oh, there are so many positive things about this" but I don't believe myself. And that's what matters. My situation borders on depression, I fear. Not being in a relationship is often the only thing I can think about. It eats me up, it doesn't stop.
During Christmas and new years eve I spent three weeks at home and played videogames. For some reason I didn't care about anything, I wasn't depressed. When I started going back to work it hit me full force. Going out every day and seeing all those happy couples is just killing me.
Like I said, I am not that type of person that cannot ignore that. I was not made in such a way that I can be alone. This loneliness is killing me, it is driving me insane. Quite honestly, I would rather not be alive than alone. I cannot cope, I cannot deal with this. It may sound melodramatic as hell but the day I lose ALL my hope is probably going to be the day I die. (Un)Luckily I'm one stubborn guy and my strong will is the only thing that keeps me going. These past few years I've dealt a lot with anxiety, with fear and with anguish (not only because of being alone, that came recently, but also because of other things) and it's just an all around miserable life. I have no idea how much longer I can take this.

I know that you are trying to help but what you suggest... it just doesn't work for me.

Click to expand...

Y'know what? I totally get where you're coming from. Even now, the lack of romantic companionship still bites me. But here's something else that might help....

Before moving out of my own, I lived with my Mum and Stepdad for about 6 years. Don't get me wrong. I love them dearly. But just being a fly on the wall to their relationship was hell at times. It's not like it was a broken home or anything, but some of those fights were screaming matches were brutal-often triggered by the most miniscule of things. All sometimes all it took was for him to say/do something out of place, or sometimes it was lack of action. And she'd launch into him, and the poor ******* spends the next hour running damage control while my mother's anger burns through rage-fueled theatrics. And the few occasions where he initiated the fight, my Mum would instantly be enthralled with the tast of conflict, and immediately launch back harder. Thus forcing him back into damage control.

Those 6 years taught me something. That there are few things in this world more terrifying than a woman's rage. And that's exactlywhat you'll be dealing with in a relationship. You'll be walking on eggshells to avoid incurring her wrath, only to end up getting it anyways because you happen to be within striking range during 'that time of month'.

That's what I mean when I speak of pros and cons. On top of the freedom, we get to avoid the mental trauma that comes with relationships. Yes, lacking that relationship on a long term basis has its traumas of its own, but all of that basically comes from within ourselves. And people like us have had plenty of experience in dealing with ourselves.

Sorry to hear about that crush. So what's your story? What's going on? Don't give me that last chance nonsense. People of all ages can find a partner (yeah, I know, I'm a hypocrite for saying something I wouldn't believe for one second myself).

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In light of everything I've just said, I'd make a horrible boyfriend. And I know it(I suspect she knows it too). She deserves better, and that's really all there is to it.

Oh my god please stop generalizing and putting those thoughts in his head, not all women are like that!

Wait, what thoughts? That living the single life might not be so bad? Or that the reality of 'love and companionship' isn't at all like the fantasies we dream up in our heads?

I fail to see the harm here.

It's okay Raingirl, I know that. That was what I was actually going to say.

I know that not all women are like that and guess what: there are also men that are like that. It really depends.

Anyway, a relationship means also closeness. The thing is: I want it all. I want the good things. I also want the bad things. I want the conflict (because there is going to be conflict), I want to face the hardships (if there are any). Trough conflict we grow.
And conflict would also mean that the other person cares for me. You don't get angry when you care for someone. If you don't care then your mood doesn't change.

I long to be cared for. Sometimes I get the feeling that no one cares for me and I'm alone in this world and it's getting harder for me to convince myself of the opposite.
Of course there will again be people who say "You have to love yourself before etc. etc." but I personally think that there is a difference between people who already were in a relationship at one point and people who've been perpetually single in that the one group cannot understand the other group.
There is somehow a disparity in understanding. I just need other people. I need another person. I am a social creature, after all, and the extent to which I need someone varies. It varies for everyone.


Yeah, travel... I couldn't bear to move somewhere else because I'd lose all my friends. It would become even lonelier then. And I'm afraid that moving wouldn't also get me in contact with new people. I'd love to travel but I have a lack of direction. Where would I go? What would I do?
I know that I'd probably come home depressed because I failed to meet anyone new.

Red_Wedding_Casualty said:

Wait, what thoughts? That living the single life might not be so bad? Or that the reality of 'love and companionship' isn't at all like the fantasies we dream up in our heads?

I fail to see the harm here.

Click to expand...

That women are evil monsters that will eat your soul and mentally traumatize you forever, especially during that "time of the month", it's such a cliche.

And living the single life is not so bad when you're actually ok being single and don't care, when you're truly longing for someone then it's just misery.
I don't believe anyone is naive enough to think relationships are this perfect fantasy from our heads. Some relationships can be good, some can be meh, some can be bad and some can be ******* amazing.

Raingirl said:

That women are evil monsters that will eat your soul and mentally traumatize you forever, especially during that "time of the month", it's such a cliche.

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My ex (a man) had more PMS than I ever did. lol

looking glass said:

Hey Katerina,

yeah, I've seen both guys and gals who are in such a situation, though never personally. I've seen them in forums, friends told me they know people like that etc. So did you have people ask you out on dates? Social anxiety is really tough. Is there a reason why you find it embarrassing to admit that you like someone? Sorry, I don't want to pry, I'm just curious.

That confidence thing is also a problem, although I try to not let it bother. After some times it just becomes difficult to deal with rejection. Whereas most people at least have some dating experience for me there was nothing but rejection so far in my life and that hurts. A lot.

I actually tried online dating, just forgot to mention that. Things went horribly. I've contacted a few dozen women (in total, spread over several sites) but had absolutely no luck. I wasn't that picky, I just contacted anyone who seemed fun, so I could just get some experience relationship-wise and also overcome the stigma that is my virginity (since this is a total turn-off to many). On the other hand I didn't contact just anybody. I spent quite some time carefully going through the profiles, looking for common things etc. Sometimes that's really difficult though because some profiles are so sparse, there is barely anything there to go on. Or there is just a lot of really strange stuff that I can't quite describe and it becomes difficult to find a common talking point to break the ice. I guess those people just aren't seriously looking for relationships.
I've contacted quite a few women and didn't get any replies. This was in summer. I was depressed for two weeks straight. Haven't tried online dating since.
But that's online dating for you. Girls usually get way too many messages that are like "Hey, wanna have sex?" and the guys who actually try just disappear in the mass of messages.

I also downloaded an app, lovoo but there was I actually to scared to talk to anyone. I just didn't know how to go about that thing, how to contact someone, what to say, since it's even more superficial than online dating. An additional problem is that I'm still living at home. Finding a flat in the next big city is almost impossible and I'm actually looking for a flat share because I cannot bear the thought of living alone, but it's so hard. This is almost as bad as dating since you have to present yourself from your best site but be humble at the same time. I cannot deal with the constant rejection.
I guess I'll have to try speed dating at some point. Just to make sure that I've tried all the options lest it haunts me forever.

Clubs... I dunno. I keep hearing that you really shouldn't go to clubs alone because it looks weird. And all my friends are already out of that "phase". Why should they go? They all have relationships, there is no point for them. It's just that I'm left behind.
Apart from that I just don't know where to start. Meetups sounds like a good idea in general but... I have no idea how to go about that. I wouldn't even know where to start. I play guitar, I like reading, I play video games, I do yoga - none of these things are really great to meet other people. I figured that going to a yoga course would help but I ended up going there, not talking to anyone and leaving since everyone else left also. There were two girls in my age but they always left quickly, didn't even greet me and I wouldn't have known how to talk to them. What to say?
I do like dancing and I told myself that once I'd move I'll have to go to some dancing schools. Though I have to keep myself from getting my hopes up, since it's a bit of a gamble. There might be women there who like to dance and are single and who would also look for guys who are single. But it's also possible that there are only couples. It's that particular age, twenties to early thirties, where most people don't have to go out of their way to find a partner and just do whatever they want while for me it's an active concern.
And then there are people like us who, as it seems, are just out of luck for some reason.

When I socialised it varied. There were times when I actually asked someone out, like to go to the theatre. I didn't even say it in such a way that suggested a date (although implicitly, since it's two people going to the theatre, it maybe kinda is) but either the girl in particular was really weirded out and stopped talking to me or we actually went to the theatre but it kind of trailed off after that... Which is also a thing that happens sometimes. I exchange numbers or something like that and try to stay in contact but the other person stops responding and so that also doesn't go anywhere. Also she might only give me her number because she's already commited to a relationship (which I don't always know) and doesn't think much of it. I guess I never make it explicitely clear what I want but that's because I don't want to scare her off. Like I said, it's not that easy to find single girls.
Quite often when I meet new people I don't really see them on a regular basis which could justify asking them out. I'm especially afraid of their reaction, like they might be weirded out.

The big problem though is that most of the time I just don't meet any new people. Either I stay at home, I have to work, or I meet with friends. I always hear these stories "oh, we met at this theatre group/birthday party/event"... and I get the feeling that most people don't actually know how to find mates. It just... sort of happens. (well, except discos and dating sites). There is no big plan.

Click to expand...

Hi again. No I haven't really had people ask me out. Well once when I was 19 but he was asking literally everyone else out too so it never crossed my mind as a good idea to accept it in that case.

I guess the reason I find admitting I like someone so embarrassing is due a fear of failure/rejection. In fact I don't even talk about relationships too anyone largely because of how single I've been bothers although I imagine a lot of peope get the impression that I don't care about such things.

I was depressed as a teenager and I channeled a lot of my loneliness inwards and pretty much blamed myself for the reason I was alone eg my personality and physical appearance. Now I know they both play a role in attraction and relationships but I've realised that simply a bigger factor was my depression and then later on my isolation. I mean when I'm spending all my time at home and as a consequence not meeting anyone I can't really blame being single on the way I look or my character. But admittedly part of me does from time to time.

It's a shame you haven't had any luck with online dating but from what you've said it seems like even that isn't always a great place to meet people. I live at home too and in a rural area and that makes meeting people extra difficult.

By clubs I didn't mean nightclubs but activity based clubs in your area, I suppose meetups are similar to this. In terms of meetups what you do is put in your location into their website (meetup.com) and it'll find activity groups that people have set up in your local area. There will probably be a broad of ideas some you might be interested to join and obviously they're set up with socialising in mind so might be worth a look at.

I think exercise classes vary in how social they are as well as how chatty people who go to them are. I went to a bodypump class for a while and barely spoke to anyone. Now I go to a local zumba class and people are far more chatty which is great (although no men there). Dance classes are probably a good idea, I think women make up a large majority of the people going and who doesn't like a guy who can dance? There may be some couples but I imagine there's some single women who will be going to dance classes.

Someone mentioned jogging, i imagine just chatting to people who are out jogging wouldn't work very well but there are organised running groups which are a lot better. I know of someone who met someone through running so it does work sometimes.

Katerina said:

looking glass said:

Hey Katerina,

yeah, I've seen both guys and gals who are in such a situation, though never personally. I've seen them in forums, friends told me they know people like that etc. So did you have people ask you out on dates? Social anxiety is really tough. Is there a reason why you find it embarrassing to admit that you like someone? Sorry, I don't want to pry, I'm just curious.

That confidence thing is also a problem, although I try to not let it bother. After some times it just becomes difficult to deal with rejection. Whereas most people at least have some dating experience for me there was nothing but rejection so far in my life and that hurts. A lot.

I actually tried online dating, just forgot to mention that. Things went horribly. I've contacted a few dozen women (in total, spread over several sites) but had absolutely no luck. I wasn't that picky, I just contacted anyone who seemed fun, so I could just get some experience relationship-wise and also overcome the stigma that is my virginity (since this is a total turn-off to many). On the other hand I didn't contact just anybody. I spent quite some time carefully going through the profiles, looking for common things etc. Sometimes that's really difficult though because some profiles are so sparse, there is barely anything there to go on. Or there is just a lot of really strange stuff that I can't quite describe and it becomes difficult to find a common talking point to break the ice. I guess those people just aren't seriously looking for relationships.
I've contacted quite a few women and didn't get any replies. This was in summer. I was depressed for two weeks straight. Haven't tried online dating since.
But that's online dating for you. Girls usually get way too many messages that are like "Hey, wanna have sex?" and the guys who actually try just disappear in the mass of messages.

I also downloaded an app, lovoo but there was I actually to scared to talk to anyone. I just didn't know how to go about that thing, how to contact someone, what to say, since it's even more superficial than online dating. An additional problem is that I'm still living at home. Finding a flat in the next big city is almost impossible and I'm actually looking for a flat share because I cannot bear the thought of living alone, but it's so hard. This is almost as bad as dating since you have to present yourself from your best site but be humble at the same time. I cannot deal with the constant rejection.
I guess I'll have to try speed dating at some point. Just to make sure that I've tried all the options lest it haunts me forever.

Clubs... I dunno. I keep hearing that you really shouldn't go to clubs alone because it looks weird. And all my friends are already out of that "phase". Why should they go? They all have relationships, there is no point for them. It's just that I'm left behind.
Apart from that I just don't know where to start. Meetups sounds like a good idea in general but... I have no idea how to go about that. I wouldn't even know where to start. I play guitar, I like reading, I play video games, I do yoga - none of these things are really great to meet other people. I figured that going to a yoga course would help but I ended up going there, not talking to anyone and leaving since everyone else left also. There were two girls in my age but they always left quickly, didn't even greet me and I wouldn't have known how to talk to them. What to say?
I do like dancing and I told myself that once I'd move I'll have to go to some dancing schools. Though I have to keep myself from getting my hopes up, since it's a bit of a gamble. There might be women there who like to dance and are single and who would also look for guys who are single. But it's also possible that there are only couples. It's that particular age, twenties to early thirties, where most people don't have to go out of their way to find a partner and just do whatever they want while for me it's an active concern.
And then there are people like us who, as it seems, are just out of luck for some reason.

When I socialised it varied. There were times when I actually asked someone out, like to go to the theatre. I didn't even say it in such a way that suggested a date (although implicitly, since it's two people going to the theatre, it maybe kinda is) but either the girl in particular was really weirded out and stopped talking to me or we actually went to the theatre but it kind of trailed off after that... Which is also a thing that happens sometimes. I exchange numbers or something like that and try to stay in contact but the other person stops responding and so that also doesn't go anywhere. Also she might only give me her number because she's already commited to a relationship (which I don't always know) and doesn't think much of it. I guess I never make it explicitely clear what I want but that's because I don't want to scare her off. Like I said, it's not that easy to find single girls.
Quite often when I meet new people I don't really see them on a regular basis which could justify asking them out. I'm especially afraid of their reaction, like they might be weirded out.

The big problem though is that most of the time I just don't meet any new people. Either I stay at home, I have to work, or I meet with friends. I always hear these stories "oh, we met at this theatre group/birthday party/event"... and I get the feeling that most people don't actually know how to find mates. It just... sort of happens. (well, except discos and dating sites). There is no big plan.

Click to expand...

Hi again. No I haven't really had people ask me out. Well once when I was 19 but he was asking literally everyone else out too so it never crossed my mind as a good idea to accept it in that case.

I guess the reason I find admitting I like someone so embarrassing is due a fear of failure/rejection. In fact I don't even talk about relationships too anyone largely because of how single I've been bothers although I imagine a lot of peope get the impression that I don't care about such things.

I was depressed as a teenager and I channeled a lot of my loneliness inwards and pretty much blamed myself for the reason I was alone eg my personality and physical appearance. Now I know they both play a role in attraction and relationships but I've realised that simply a bigger factor was my depression and then later on my isolation. I mean when I'm spending all my time at home and as a consequence not meeting anyone I can't really blame being single on the way I look or my character. But admittedly part of me does from time to time.

It's a shame you haven't had any luck with online dating but from what you've said it seems like even that isn't always a great place to meet people. I live at home too and in a rural area and that makes meeting people extra difficult.

By clubs I didn't mean nightclubs but activity based clubs in your area, I suppose meetups are similar to this. In terms of meetups what you do is put in your location into their website (meetup.com) and it'll find activity groups that people have set up in your local area. There will probably be a broad of ideas some you might be interested to join and obviously they're set up with socialising in mind so might be worth a look at.

I think exercise classes vary in how social they are as well as how chatty people who go to them are. I went to a bodypump class for a while and barely spoke to anyone. Now I go to a local zumba class and people are far more chatty which is great (although no men there). Dance classes are probably a good idea, I think women make up a large majority of the people going and who doesn't like a guy who can dance? There may be some couples but I imagine there's some single women who will be going to dance classes.

Someone mentioned jogging, i imagine just chatting to people who are out jogging wouldn't work very well but there are organised running groups which are a lot better. I know of someone who met someone through running so it does work sometimes.

Click to expand...

Seriously, almost everyone I've dated on the last 15 years I met online. First it was yahoo groups, then craigslist. I'd never have dated otherwise, I'm pretty sure. I never have had the confidence to ask someone out in person. The few times I tried to express feeling or "pursue" a woman I only knew from IRL, it ended up in dismal failure, mostly because I tried too hard and seemed desperate.

Raingirl said:

[...]
And living the single life is not so bad when you're actually ok being single and don't care, when you're truly longing for someone then it's just misery.
[...]

Click to expand...

You got that one right.
I realise that I might have come off too clingy in my posts but that is not the case. I stil want to become a good guitarist at some point and since I have to go to the office every day there is little time for that. I'd have to practice several hours every day, but that is just not possible. If I was in a relationship I'd have even less time. And I would be totally fine with that.
I just want someone be there for me, and I want to be there for someone. I just don't want to be lonely anymore.

---

Katerina said:

[...]
Hi again. No I haven't really had people ask me out. Well once when I was 19 but he was asking literally everyone else out too so it never crossed my mind as a good idea to accept it in that case.

I guess the reason I find admitting I like someone so embarrassing is due a fear of failure/rejection. In fact I don't even talk about relationships too anyone largely because of how single I've been bothers although I imagine a lot of peope get the impression that I don't care about such things.

I was depressed as a teenager and I channeled a lot of my loneliness inwards and pretty much blamed myself for the reason I was alone eg my personality and physical appearance. Now I know they both play a role in attraction and relationships but I've realised that simply a bigger factor was my depression and then later on my isolation. I mean when I'm spending all my time at home and as a consequence not meeting anyone I can't really blame being single on the way I look or my character. But admittedly part of me does from time to time.

It's a shame you haven't had any luck with online dating but from what you've said it seems like even that isn't always a great place to meet people. I live at home too and in a rural area and that makes meeting people extra difficult.

By clubs I didn't mean nightclubs but activity based clubs in your area, I suppose meetups are similar to this. In terms of meetups what you do is put in your location into their website (meetup.com) and it'll find activity groups that people have set up in your local area. There will probably be a broad of ideas some you might be interested to join and obviously they're set up with socialising in mind so might be worth a look at.

I think exercise classes vary in how social they are as well as how chatty people who go to them are. I went to a bodypump class for a while and barely spoke to anyone. Now I go to a local zumba class and people are far more chatty which is great (although no men there). Dance classes are probably a good idea, I think women make up a large majority of the people going and who doesn't like a guy who can dance? There may be some couples but I imagine there's some single women who will be going to dance classes.

Someone mentioned jogging, i imagine just chatting to people who are out jogging wouldn't work very well but there are organised running groups which are a lot better. I know of someone who met someone through running so it does work sometimes.

Click to expand...

Hey, thank your for the link. I'll have to look deeper into that one. And maybe there is also something that is specific to Germany where I could find even more stuff to do. The good thing about that is that there is some offering of things to do without you having to think about that. I don't have the mindset of a social, outgoing person and so I am at a loss about how I would go about doing something new.
I actually thought about going to Zumba dances this semester (well, I'm not a student anymore but I'm still at uni - I just don't get to go to lectures and socialise with other students) but did something else instead. Maybe I'll try it next semester. I did yoga classes and some training for your back and these are really terrible for meeting new people.
I just hope that I can finally find some people who accept me into their flat share so I can finally move and jumpstart my social life again. This is something that's still holding me back, being away from a bigger city. And then maybe I can finally go to a dancing school or something.

But what about you? Why don't you move? I can relate somehow to your teenage years. I cannot say that I was depressed but I spent almost all of my time home alone and/or in my head. I bet you're a great person to be around! I also understand your fear of rejection but sadly this is just life. I have to combat that every day but it is manageable. It's good to have friends where you can relieve stress by telling them about troubles. Unfortunately that doesn't always work... so that's why there are places like this.
So think about it. Moving would also maybe help. Although that is not always possible due to financial reasons or because you need to stay at home for some reason...

---

Amthorn said:

[...]
Seriously, almost everyone I've dated on the last 15 years I met online. First it was yahoo groups, then craigslist. I'd never have dated otherwise, I'm pretty sure. I never have had the confidence to ask someone out in person. The few times I tried to express feeling or "pursue" a woman I only knew from IRL, it ended up in dismal failure, mostly because I tried too hard and seemed desperate.

Click to expand...

For some people it works, for others it doesn't. I just deleted my accounts after I wrote dozens of messages and didn't get any replies. None. At. All.

looking glass said:

I still want to become a good guitarist at some point and since I have to go to the office every day there is little time for that. I'd have to practice several hours every day, but that is just not possible.

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Why not? I decided to take up the violin a few years ago at age 38. At that time, my child was 3. So I was (and still am) a single parent of a young child. And guess where I work? Full time in an office. I took lessons for 2 years and practiced 5-7 hours a week. I almost never skipped a day of practice. As a bonus, playing the violin is so enjoyable that it helps fill the empty void I feel when I'm alone.
A wise friend once told me "Don't quit before you start".

-Teresa

looking glass said:

Hey, thank your for the link. I'll have to look deeper into that one. And maybe there is also something that is specific to Germany where I could find even more stuff to do. The good thing about that is that there is some offering of things to do without you having to think about that. I don't have the mindset of a social, outgoing person and so I am at a loss about how I would go about doing something new.
I actually thought about going to Zumba dances this semester (well, I'm not a student anymore but I'm still at uni - I just don't get to go to lectures and socialise with other students) but did something else instead. Maybe I'll try it next semester. I did yoga classes and some training for your back and these are really terrible for meeting new people.
I just hope that I can finally find some people who accept me into their flat share so I can finally move and jumpstart my social life again. This is something that's still holding me back, being away from a bigger city. And then maybe I can finally go to a dancing school or something.

But what about you? Why don't you move? I can relate somehow to your teenage years. I cannot say that I was depressed but I spent almost all of my time home alone and/or in my head. I bet you're a great person to be around! I also understand your fear of rejection but sadly this is just life. I have to combat that every day but it is manageable. It's good to have friends where you can relieve stress by telling them about troubles. Unfortunately that doesn't always work... so that's why there are places like this.
So think about it. Moving would also maybe help. Although that is not always possible due to financial reasons or because you need to stay at home for some reason...

Click to expand...

Why don't I move? I have to say I'm thinking about it but I'm not too sure where to. I don't know how to drive or have a job which kind of limits things but I have some savings that could tide me over for a little while. I just need to stop being a wuss in general really

I'm glad I've given you some ideas to work with.