Is there hope for those of us who don't do well with people?

Can those of us who struggle socially still succeed even if we're not well above-average in intelligence to compensate? I often worry I won't.

Even more than a lifetime of solitude, I'm afraid of a lifetime of failure and winding up poor, dependent on an ailing parent, and having worked in vain for years to obtain a degree or certifications that I'll never use. Afraid that no matter how hard I study, I will never be seen as a desirable employee in my new field - which is supposed to turn things around - for the same reasons that I have no friends, professional contacts I was personally introduced and recommended to don't return my e-mails, and online friends avoid me after meeting me in-person.

I'm not a misanthropic person. I don't think other people are boring. I don't talk over people. I don't openly criticize them, at least not offline. I don't refuse to say hello when I see people in passing. I've never been in a confrontation at my current workplace in a year and a half, even while my coworker has. I've spent many years improving my social skills and reading already in the hopes of gaining some traction, but now I'm more worried that I'm simply trapped from birth and all this work is just a way to fool myself that I'm not.

I have an eye for detail and care deeply about the work that I do, but I worry that won't be enough when there are people out there likable enough to have friends, people everyone wants to talk to, and many who could light up a workplace. Some of those are smart and competent, too. Why hire the eccentric one that no one will even have lunch with, especially once I'm in my 30's or 40's?

I don't even believe I'm capable of making others feel good, whether I want to or not. If I were, I wouldn't be out in the cold like an unwanted dog.

I don't do well with people. I've been lonely and friendless most my life and I don't ever expect that to change. So unless you can train yourself into becoming a super confident person there might be no hope.

You're probably not keen on being patronised, but it's possible being young and unlucky so far has something to do with it. I didn't get a solid group of about 4-5 friends until my late 20's. People tend to mature and drop the cliquish attitude.

It's common to think something's inherently wrong with you, something unlikeable others can sense. But it's unlikely there's anything 'off' with the way you interact with others.

As for employers favouring the charismatic,well yes, some may do. Extroverted "people people" can create all sorts of dramas and falling outs in workplaces though. Don't assume you'll be passed over just for being reserved.

I don't think you don't need to be the best of the best in order to succeed if your not a social butterfly. Sure networking is helpful but you can get by without it or eventually establish one, such things take time and not everyone is comfortable with it.

Try not to fall into the mindset that things are hopeless and destined to never work out as this only becomes self-fulfilling and offers no help to you. It's a weird mental-protection trap that we can all fall into where we opt to cocoon ourselves away from the world so we are less hurt by it, but it doesn't really work.

You ask why would anyone want to hire you but you've already mentioned that you have an eye for detail and care a lot about what you do - for an employer that's exactly what they want.

Correlation does not equal causation and I think part of your mind is trying to tell you that you are in the cold because of the way you are whilst probably ignoring a lot of other factors that include just bad luck. I'm sure you can make others feel good - I imagine you probably have done so on here. Having someone there to listen to what you say, chatting about common interests, compliments for example.

To be honest, Tealeaf, I'm not sure people on the other side of the fence have it much better.

I've observed that people with an abundance of friends rarely have the ability to think or act independently. I know many people (too many, really!) who have enviable social lives but if you speak to them for fifteen minutes you see that they have very little insight into anything, no real character, they're unnervingly forgettable. I'm not saying it's like this right across the board but in my experience being a social butterfly is a trade-off for things that someone who isn't may take for granted.

lifestream said:

To be honest, Tealeaf, I'm not sure people on the other side of the fence have it much better.

I've observed that people with an abundance of friends rarely have the ability to think or act independently. I know many people (too many, really!) who have enviable social lives but if you speak to them for fifteen minutes you see that they have very little insight into anything, no real character, they're unnervingly forgettable. I'm not saying it's like this right across the board but in my experience being a social butterfly is a trade-off for things that someone who isn't may take for granted.

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I'll keep that in mind when I'm 65 with barely enough money to feed myself and a dying cat with medical bills I can't pay.

Now, now. There may be no dying cats in your future.

lifestream said:

Now, now. There may be no dying cats in your future.

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I was being sarcastic. Putting you on ignore and getting back to the thread, anyway.

I think some people need to experience life outside their cute little bubble before they start speaking to me about what I should and shouldn't care about. You can tell me not to worry about providing for myself or being able to find steady work when you've:
* Legitimately feared for when your next meal would be
* Eaten cooking ingredients because your mother hasn't been home for awhile and the food is running out
* Had a distant relative deep in debt who no one can afford to give much to who was losing their home and all local support
* Watched a parent work backbreaking hours and become a nervous wreck simply to bring home groceries for the children
* Watched your 16-year-old brother get a part-time job to try to help feed the kids
* Watched a parent struggle with the financial aspect of a spouse with cancer
* Watched a parent take a job with a boss who screams at them to support that spouse with cancer

... you put them on ignore, for that comment, when he/she took the time to offer a perspective and try to cheer you up. Part of the explanation is in there, perhaps.

Tealeaf, are you American?

The reason I ask is because if you are, what you are describing is really the death of the society, the death of the country. Look, no point in being dishonest about it, we all know it is going on. America is finished. Yes I know this is a really big and scary topic but it is the truth so it is worth talking about.

So it's up to you to decide what your role on this Titanic is going to be.

Have it your way, Tealeaf.

I won't trouble you with my bubble logic anymore.

lonelydoc said:

Tealeaf, are you American?

The reason I ask is because if you are, what you are describing is really the death of the society, the death of the country. Look, no point in being dishonest about it, we all know it is going on. America is finished. Yes I know this is a really big and scary topic but it is the truth so it is worth talking about.

So it's up to you to decide what your role on this Titanic is going to be.

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Not just the US, the UK is the same. We call it neo-liberalism. It's a product of the crony-capitalist plutocracy we live under.

ardour said:

... you put them on ignore, for that comment, when he/she took the time to offer a perspective and try to cheer you up. Part of the explanation is in there, perhaps.

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Just tired of being told by people with no experience in an area of life how I should feel about it, especially when their answer is to sweep the problem away - which is obnoxious at the best of times. For those who have never had to worry about food, shelter, and medical care, I'm sure it is very easy and very kind advice to puff up your chest and feel great about how smart and special you are in comparison to the masses when you're down on your luck, but it's still annoying to give to someone who has lived through it and has legitimate reason to fear returning to a time when survival matters a lot more than individuality or being better than others.

And if we're assuming that every online comment is a broad reflection of someone as a person, then I think we also know why no women will date you. I don't like any line of thinking that places me above the masses as a rule, which should say quite a bit.

Get involved with a local Occupy movement is my advice.

Tealeaf said:

Just tired of being told by people with no experience in an area of life how I should feel about it, especially when their answer is to sweep the problem away - which is obnoxious at the best of times. For those who have never had to worry about food, shelter, and medical care, I'm sure it is very easy and very kind advice to puff up your chest and feel great about how smart and special you are in comparison to the masses when you're down on your luck, but it's still annoying to give to someone who has lived through it and has legitimate reason to fear returning to a time when survival matters a lot more than individuality or being better than others.

And if we're assuming that every online comment is a broad reflection of someone as a person, then I think we also know why no women will date you. I don't like any line of thinking that places me above the masses as a rule, which should say quite a bit.

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And how much of what you say here is speculation on your part? Honestly, my guess would be a lot of it. How can you know exactly what a person has been through and struggled with? Most people are not born rich, most people have, at point or another, had to worry about money. America has assistance for those who are down on their luck. Yes, the system might be a bit messed up, but it's still there. There are many other programs that help people who need assistance as well.

If every online comment was a broad reflection of a person, then I would say everyone is messed because we have all said things unbecoming of us. Also, with the assuming and making words mean something the poster did not intend it to me, it's not a reflection on them at all, it's a reflection on the person who twisted it or made it something it's not.

TheRealCallie said:

Tealeaf said:

Just tired of being told by people with no experience in an area of life how I should feel about it, especially when their answer is to sweep the problem away - which is obnoxious at the best of times. For those who have never had to worry about food, shelter, and medical care, I'm sure it is very easy and very kind advice to puff up your chest and feel great about how smart and special you are in comparison to the masses when you're down on your luck, but it's still annoying to give to someone who has lived through it and has legitimate reason to fear returning to a time when survival matters a lot more than individuality or being better than others.

And if we're assuming that every online comment is a broad reflection of someone as a person, then I think we also know why no women will date you. I don't like any line of thinking that places me above the masses as a rule, which should say quite a bit.

Click to expand...

And how much of what you say here is speculation on your part? Honestly, my guess would be a lot of it. How can you know exactly what a person has been through and struggled with? Most people are not born rich, most people have, at point or another, had to worry about money. America has assistance for those who are down on their luck. Yes, the system might be a bit messed up, but it's still there. There are many other programs that help people who need assistance as well.

If every online comment was a broad reflection of a person, then I would say everyone is messed because we have all said things unbecoming of us. Also, with the assuming and making words mean something the poster did not intend it to me, it's not a reflection on them at all, it's a reflection on the person who twisted it or made it something it's not.

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I believe it's possible to tell the same way you can tell who's never had real problems with being lonely, anxious, introverted, or shy: they think social anxiety is the same thing as being nervous, they assume you simply don't go out, or they assume that silence is the same thing as hostility. No one who's ever struggled with the basics would think that feeling smarter than your average Joe who's enjoying having their basic needs met because of it would be comforting. I'm comfortable with my speculation.

Tealeaf said:

TheRealCallie said:

Tealeaf said:

Just tired of being told by people with no experience in an area of life how I should feel about it, especially when their answer is to sweep the problem away - which is obnoxious at the best of times. For those who have never had to worry about food, shelter, and medical care, I'm sure it is very easy and very kind advice to puff up your chest and feel great about how smart and special you are in comparison to the masses when you're down on your luck, but it's still annoying to give to someone who has lived through it and has legitimate reason to fear returning to a time when survival matters a lot more than individuality or being better than others.

And if we're assuming that every online comment is a broad reflection of someone as a person, then I think we also know why no women will date you. I don't like any line of thinking that places me above the masses as a rule, which should say quite a bit.

Click to expand...

And how much of what you say here is speculation on your part? Honestly, my guess would be a lot of it. How can you know exactly what a person has been through and struggled with? Most people are not born rich, most people have, at point or another, had to worry about money. America has assistance for those who are down on their luck. Yes, the system might be a bit messed up, but it's still there. There are many other programs that help people who need assistance as well.

If every online comment was a broad reflection of a person, then I would say everyone is messed because we have all said things unbecoming of us. Also, with the assuming and making words mean something the poster did not intend it to me, it's not a reflection on them at all, it's a reflection on the person who twisted it or made it something it's not.

Click to expand...

I believe it's possible to tell the same way you can tell who's never had real problems with being lonely, anxious, introverted, or shy: they think social anxiety is the same thing as being nervous, they assume you simply don't go out, or they assume that silence is the same thing as hostility. No one who's ever struggled with the basics would think that feeling smarter than your average Joe who's enjoying having their basic needs met because of it would be comforting. I'm comfortable with my speculation.

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No, you really can't tell who has had problems with certain things. I know many people who won't admit to being lonely and no one can tell. I also know many people who have had major anxiety issues and people don't know about them, me being one of them.
It's really like anything in life, you can't know what a person has struggled through just by what they say or how they look or act. It's hard to hide it if you are going through it now, yes, but you can't tell past experiences of a person.

Tealeaf said:

Just tired of being told by people with no experience in an area of life how I should feel about it, especially when their answer is to sweep the problem away - which is obnoxious at the best of times. For those who have never had to worry about food, shelter, and medical care, I'm sure it is very easy and very kind advice to puff up your chest and feel great about how smart and special you are in comparison to the masses when you're down on your luck, but it's still annoying to give to someone who has lived through it and has legitimate reason to fear returning to a time when survival matters a lot more than individuality or being better than others.

And if we're assuming that every online comment is a broad reflection of someone as a person, then I think we also know why no women will date you. I don't like any line of thinking that places me above the masses as a rule, which should say quite a bit.

Click to expand...

Correct, I’ve never had to worry about the necessities. That’s not such a factor where a comprehensive social welfare system exists.
I think you’re wrong about popularity being the primary factor in every workplace. The STEM fields seem to consist of people with more limited social skills. Plenty of awkward, unattractive, “dull”, little-to-no charisma individuals find jobs and earn a living.

*pondering whether to say that you should consider trying to find a means of Passive Income*

I dunno. :/ This requires some thought and creativity.

Trading stocks online?
Something online…

*ponders ponders*

ardour said:

Tealeaf said:

Just tired of being told by people with no experience in an area of life how I should feel about it, especially when their answer is to sweep the problem away - which is obnoxious at the best of times. For those who have never had to worry about food, shelter, and medical care, I'm sure it is very easy and very kind advice to puff up your chest and feel great about how smart and special you are in comparison to the masses when you're down on your luck, but it's still annoying to give to someone who has lived through it and has legitimate reason to fear returning to a time when survival matters a lot more than individuality or being better than others.

And if we're assuming that every online comment is a broad reflection of someone as a person, then I think we also know why no women will date you. I don't like any line of thinking that places me above the masses as a rule, which should say quite a bit.

Click to expand...

Correct, I’ve never had the worry about the necessities. That’s not such a factor where a comprehensive social welfare system exists.
I think you’re wrong about popularity being the primary factor in every workplace. The STEM fields seem to consist of people with more limited social skills. Plenty of awkward, unattractive, “dull”, little-to-no charisma individuals find jobs and earn a living.

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Maybe, but it's a mixed bag. I know the stereotype of a brilliant nerd who can't socialize for beans as well as anyone else, but as STEM and geeky interests become more mainstream it's less and less of a refuge for clever oddballs (and there were always people who didn't fit that mold, anyway).

Many of my classmates and instructors have been reasonably social, if not energetic and amicable, people as well as competent... so I couldn't place myself into some special sect of misunderstood brainiacs if I wanted to. Many "normies" are perfectly intelligent, despite the amount of people who are almost physically attached to their cell phones or the number of anti-intellectuals who consider texting more important than fixing grammar in their scholarship application.

Employers don't necessarily need to choose between intelligence and charisma, and there are plenty of people both more intelligent and more charismatic than I am. I feel I'll be a hard sell if anyone picks up on anything unusual about me when it comes to workplace culture, or because I won't have the same network to search for jobs through as others. I might be intuitive, hardworking, and have an eye for details, but there are many such people in STEM and not all of us are outcasts.

My social failures have also made terrifyingly real the fact that there is such a thing as things that I can't control through self-improvement, planning, effort, study, or time. I struggle every day when I study and write with believing that I won't just hit my limit a few months or years down the road, anyway, and find that it won't be enough with no options for change. I'm learning a lot now, but it is possible that in ten years my ability to soak up knowledge and adapt will simply dry up, and that nothing I do will bring it back. I don't feel like I control my own life or my own brain, and that's terrifying.