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EveWasFramed

EveWasFramed

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Questions. Any constructive help is appreciated.
I have two stepsons, ages 15 and 18. The 15 yo lives in the home and the 18 yo lives with his mother, but is here frequently. Several months ago, my husband took a job working out of state. He comes home either Thursday night or early Friday afternoon. When this happened, the mother of the boys wanted the 15 yo to move back in with her because she didn't really know me. Note, my husband has joint custody but the mother is the custodial parent - she allowed the child to live with us but would not relinquish custody. In order to keep my stepson at his current high school, I agreed to meet and talk with his mother (something I didn't want to do for my own reasons). After a very long conversation and a lot of texting the next day, she agreed to leave him in our home so he could continue at the same school.
Myself, my husband, their mother and both boys all sat down and a 9:00 pm curfew time during the week was discussed and agreed to. It was of my choosing because I work and i go to bed early and want everyone in and the house locked up when I go to sleep. Everyone agreed to it.
Fast forward a few months and the 18 yo is coming and going pretty much as he pleases. I made an exception to the curfew on nights he works, but those are the only times I agreed to. He and my husband seem to be on a different page than I am. They seem to think he can leave the house to go home at whatever time he likes. That completely defeats the purpose of the curfew - me checking all the doors, etc. Also, now the 15 yo is trying to get both his mom and his dad to extend his curfew. He asked his mother and she told him she wasn't the one who set it. So he texted his dad and told him that even elementary aged kids got to stay out later than 9:00 on school nights and he wanted his curfew extended. Note that I'm the one here in the home during the week and he has NO real curfew when his father is here on the weekends. He comes and goes as he pleases. His mother told him that in order for him to stay here with me, he had to abide by the rules. Keep in mind that he is failing three core classes because he doesn't do his homework and doesn't do chores like he's supposed to.

So here are my questions:
Should the 18 yo have to go home by nine (unless he's spending the night)?
The agreement was curfew was 9:00 so I could lock up the house and make sure everyone was in.

Should I be forced to allow the 15 yo to stay out later on weeknights, even though everyone agreed to the curfew as part of the terms of me being responsible for them during the week? As I said, he's free to roam on the weekends. When their father is at home, he lets them do as they please, so it's not like they don't have plenty of freedom.

Sorry for the long post, but I think it's important to have the backstory.
And please, constructive comments only. Thank you.
 
I'd insist the younger boy observe the 9:00 weeknight curfew and grant the older boy the liberty to come and go as he pleases with the understanding that he cooperates with household security protocols, leaving the doors locked up when he leaves.

If the 15 yr old improves his grades perhaps the agreement could then be renegotiated.....that might be an inducement for him to do so.
 
constant stranger said:
I'd insist the younger boy observe the 9:00 weeknight curfew and grant the older boy the liberty to come and go as he pleases with the understanding that he cooperates with household security protocols, leaving the doors locked up when he leaves.

If the 15 yr old improves his grades perhaps the agreement could then be renegotiated.....that might be an inducement for him to do so.
Click to expand...

Thank you, CS. Perhaps I could consider trusting them to lock up if they show me they can listen about other things such as chores and homework. His father handles checking the school's website for his grades and missing assignments, but has yet to do anything about it (consequences). Hmm...from previous situations, it seems difficult to believe he would change his behavior for an extra 30 minutes roaming the neighborhood. Food for thought and thank you again for your reply!!
 
I don't see having a 9pm curfew on school nights as overly restrictive, although I'd personally edge towards 10pm as it's more in line with the other teenagers around here.

The 18 year old is a grown man and I believe he should be treated as such. How can he be expected to act responsibly when it comes to chores etc, when he probably feels like he's still being treated firmly as a child? You could try giving him free rein and maybe he would surprise you? You could explain to him that should he let you down, then that privilege will be removed.

Ultimately, it's your house, your rules, and the 15 year old will just have to put up with whatever you decide, but the 18 year old is free to do as he pleases and if you stamp your foot down too hard, then perhaps he'll choose to stop coming at all and that would be a great shame.
 
Cavey said:
I don't see having a 9pm curfew on school nights as overly restrictive, although I'd personally edge towards 10pm as it's more in line with the other teenagers around here.

The 18 year old is a grown man and I believe he should be treated as such. How can he be expected to act responsibly when it comes to chores etc, when he probably feels like he's still being treated firmly as a child? You could try giving him free rein and maybe he would surprise you? You could explain to him that should he let you down, then that privilege will be removed.

Ultimately, it's your house, your rules, and the 15 year old will just have to put up with whatever you decide, but the 18 year old is free to do as he pleases and if you stamp your foot down too hard, then perhaps he'll choose to stop coming at all and that would be a great shame.
Click to expand...

I can see your points, Cavey but the 18 yo just shows up often. He's 18 and there is no longer an agreement in place for his visitation. He doesn't come to see his family - he spends the night so he's closer to his lady's house. His dad isn't hear during the week and his brother is gone every night until nine. I have a firearm. He has no business coming and going as he pleases - he should tell me when he wants to come, in my opinion.
 
EveWasFramed said:
Cavey said:
I don't see having a 9pm curfew on school nights as overly restrictive, although I'd personally edge towards 10pm as it's more in line with the other teenagers around here.

The 18 year old is a grown man and I believe he should be treated as such. How can he be expected to act responsibly when it comes to chores etc, when he probably feels like he's still being treated firmly as a child? You could try giving him free rein and maybe he would surprise you? You could explain to him that should he let you down, then that privilege will be removed.

Ultimately, it's your house, your rules, and the 15 year old will just have to put up with whatever you decide, but the 18 year old is free to do as he pleases and if you stamp your foot down too hard, then perhaps he'll choose to stop coming at all and that would be a great shame.
Click to expand...

I can see your points, Cavey but the 18 yo just shows up often. He's 18 and there is no longer an agreement in place for his visitation. He doesn't come to see his family - he spends the night so he's closer to his lady's house. His dad isn't hear during the week and his brother is gone every night until nine. I have a firearm. He has no business coming and going as he pleases - he should tell me when he wants to come, in my opinion.

PS. He comes here because his dad sets no curfew for him but his mom does (he lives with her).
Click to expand...
 
EveWasFramed said:
EveWasFramed said:
Cavey said:
I don't see having a 9pm curfew on school nights as overly restrictive, although I'd personally edge towards 10pm as it's more in line with the other teenagers around here.

The 18 year old is a grown man and I believe he should be treated as such. How can he be expected to act responsibly when it comes to chores etc, when he probably feels like he's still being treated firmly as a child? You could try giving him free rein and maybe he would surprise you? You could explain to him that should he let you down, then that privilege will be removed.

Ultimately, it's your house, your rules, and the 15 year old will just have to put up with whatever you decide, but the 18 year old is free to do as he pleases and if you stamp your foot down too hard, then perhaps he'll choose to stop coming at all and that would be a great shame.
Click to expand...

I can see your points, Cavey but the 18 yo just shows up often. He's 18 and there is no longer an agreement in place for his visitation. He doesn't come to see his family - he spends the night so he's closer to his lady's house. His dad isn't hear during the week and his brother is gone every night until nine. I have a firearm. He has no business coming and going as he pleases - he should tell me when he wants to come, in my opinion.

PS. He comes here because his dad sets no curfew for him but his mom does (he lives with her).
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
I thought you meant that he lived there at least part of the time. If that's not the case and he's just turning up when he feels like it and at any hour, then that's an entirely different matter.

It's not unreasonable to expect him to leave so that you can lock up etc, but expecting an 18 year old man to be inside by 9pm on the nights he is staying over is unrealistic and is only going to lead to friction between you both. Perhaps it's better if he just stays there when his father is around.

As I said, it's for you and his father to decide. You're the ones that are ultimately responsible for setting the rules under your own roof. He can then choose to either follow them or just stop staying over.
 
The 15 year old should respect YOU and the rules that HE agreed to. If he can't bother to keep his grades up and help out around the house, why the hell should he be treated any better than an elementary school kid?

As for the 18 year old. I tell adults that stay with me that if they can do whatever they want, they have no curfew, but if they aren't home at a certain time, they will NOT be getting in the house. I don't know if that's an option for you. But also, if he works, perhaps he should recognize that you have to get up early to go to work. If he can't do that, if he can't help out around the house, then I don't really see why you should be bending your rules and whatnot to suit his needs.

Long story short...In order to be given respect and have your wishes considered, you should have at least try to show that you can be responsible and handle the extra privilege. If you ACT like a child, why shouldn't you be TREATED like a child?
 
I guess it is hard for you suince you need o sleep early and lock the doors before you go to bed but at the same time they are growing and believe they need more freedom. I fear that the problem will only grow if you keep resisting the teenager. What about you give one of them the responsibility to lock the door? Are they up to the task?
 
Cavey said:
I thought you meant that he lived there at least part of the time. If that's not the case and he's just turning up when he feels like it and at any hour, then that's an entirely different matter.

It's not unreasonable to expect him to leave so that you can lock up etc, but expecting an 18 year old man to be inside by 9pm on the nights he is staying over is unrealistic and is only going to lead to friction between you both. Perhaps it's better if he just stays there when his father is around.

As I said, it's for you and his father to decide. You're the ones that are ultimately responsible for setting the rules under your own roof. He can then choose to either follow them or just stop staying over.
Click to expand...

I think it's best that he stays when his father is around as well. He comes and goes as he pleases during those times. He also agree to being in by nine on weeknights he chooses to stay. And it IS a choice - he lives with his mother. His father isn't at home during the week. But yes, he turns up without any notices and stays as long as he likes, without a single word to me.
I think he comes because his mother is even stricter than I am about him being inside during the week because she also has to work and wants to lock up the house.
 
TheRealCallie said:
The 15 year old should respect YOU and the rules that HE agreed to. If he can't bother to keep his grades up and help out around the house, why the hell should he be treated any better than an elementary school kid?

As for the 18 year old. I tell adults that stay with me that if they can do whatever they want, they have no curfew, but if they aren't home at a certain time, they will NOT be getting in the house. I don't know if that's an option for you. But also, if he works, perhaps he should recognize that you have to get up early to go to work. If he can't do that, if he can't help out around the house, then I don't really see why you should be bending your rules and whatnot to suit his needs.

Long story short...In order to be given respect and have your wishes considered, you should have at least try to show that you can be responsible and handle the extra privilege. If you ACT like a child, why shouldn't you be TREATED like a child?
Click to expand...

Exactly. They completely fail to do anything they're told. It took me three hours to get the 15 yo to do 30 minutes worth of chores. Then he didn't even finish them. He explained that he didn't want to touch the rest of the dishes to load them because they were icky. Hello?? I put MY dishes in the dishwasher. Wonder who he thinks puts the dishes in the sink?? He said he'd done everything else so he didn't see why it was an issue if he didn't finish loading the dishwasher. That's his mentality.
He keeps breaking phones and the last time, his father wouldn't replace it. So he told his father "fresia you." His dad ended up buying him a used one for $200.
Last week, he didn't want to go out of town with his mother (it was her weekend to have him). He picked a fight with her and called her a deadbeat who lives off of alimony (she does have a full time job). How can someone like that be expected to do what's expected of him?
 
Lacrecia said:
I guess it is hard for you suince you need o sleep early and lock the doors before you go to bed but at the same time they are growing and believe they need more freedom. I fear that the problem will only grow if you keep resisting the teenager. What about you give one of them the responsibility to lock the door? Are they up to the task?
Click to expand...

They are hit and miss on the door. The older one really has no reason to be there during the week since his dad isn't there and he lives with his mother. He agreed if he came during the week, he'd abide by the curfew. He isn't.
The three of them don't appear to see anything wrong with making an agreement and changing it to suit themselves. If I hadn't agreed to be responsible for the younger one during the week, neither of them would even be there. I did them a kindness and this is how I'm repaid. :(
 
I’ve had step children and joint custody of my own children, so I can relate to these issues. If the parents don’t work together this could get real ugly. I’d advise you to stick to the rules that were agreed upon and not waiver. Their parents should support you with this. I’d tell the 18 year old child to stay at his mother’s if he wants to be out past 9:00 and not to come over if it’s after 9:00. Most importantly, don’t argue with them, just tell them how it is.
 
Blue Bob said:
I’ve had step children and joint custody of my own children, so I can relate to these issues. If the parents don’t work together this could get real ugly. I’d advise you to stick to the rules that were agreed upon and not waiver. Their parents should support you with this. I’d tell the 18 year old child to stay at his mother’s if he wants to be out past 9:00 and not to come over if it’s after 9:00. Most importantly, don’t argue with them, just tell them how it is.
Click to expand...

I think that's great advise, Bob. It's what I'd like to do.
Here's the rub though. When I speak with my husband about it, he gets angry and says I'm trying to kick the kid out of trying to make him choose between me and his kids (which I find absurd). The mother somewhat supports it but in word only, as she doesn't live in our home. She also often interferes and makes visitation schedule changes that NONE of them run by me first. One of both children (mostly both) have been there for the last eight weekends. They were only supposed to be there four of those. When we married, I wasnt supposed to have to look after them. I offered to look after the younger one during the week if he abided by the rules (which he often doesn't).
How can I deal with this when I'm not getting support from their father? It's like I'm expected to look out for them on everyone else's terms instead of my own.
What can I do? What am I missing?
Thanks again for your reply and thank you to everyone else who replied also.
 
Sorry to hear it’s already gotten ugly. Often kids in this situation will play one parent off the other to get what they want. As a parent in this situation I too was afraid to enforce rules on my kids because they could just stop coming over. Maybe he’s afraid and chooses to be lax, which in essence is letting them get their way. Maybe he sees you as messing that up (coming between them). I think you need to arrange another meeting to hash this out again. Their mom has to support it for it work (and their dad too). If she does then your husband should be ok with making the kids comply with the rules. Also, their mom needs to make the 14 year old visit his dad when he should and that goes both ways. They need to understand it’s in the boy’s best interest. If you can’t arrange a meeting, or if your husband won’t keep a dialogue with their mom, then you will have to create and maintain that dialogue, which could be a huge pain. Unfortunately it can be a problem that never gets resolved. You just have to keep banging away at it. If the parents won’t comply there’s always you and the kid. Maybe the two of you can find a way to make it work. You might have to do more nurturing than his parents.
 
Blue Bob said:
Sorry to hear it’s already gotten ugly. Often kids in this situation will play one parent off the other to get what they want. As a parent in this situation I too was afraid to enforce rules on my kids because they could just stop coming over. Maybe he’s afraid and chooses to be lax, which in essence is letting them get their way. Maybe he sees you as messing that up (coming between them). I think you need to arrange another meeting to hash this out again. Their mom has to support it for it work (and their dad too). If she does then your husband should be ok with making the kids comply with the rules. Also, their mom needs to make the 14 year old visit his dad when he should and that goes both ways. They need to understand it’s in the boy’s best interest. If you can’t arrange a meeting, or if your husband won’t keep a dialogue with their mom, then you will have to create and maintain that dialogue, which could be a huge pain. Unfortunately it can be a problem that never gets resolved. You just have to keep banging away at it. If the parents won’t comply there’s always you and the kid. Maybe the two of you can find a way to make it work. You might have to do more nurturing than his parents.
Click to expand...

Actually, it's the mother that doesn't have the kids as often as she's supposed to and the dad who won't make her stick to the schedule. The 15 yo lives with us and is supposed to be with his mom every other weekend.
I think you've hit upon something with the fear idea. I read about paralyzed parenting in cases of divorce. Usually one parent (and it's usually the dad) is often lax and lets the kids do whatever they please because they fear alienating them.
Everything I've read says this is a VERY bad thing (for obvious reasons).
A lot of times I feel like it's not even my home - it's theirs and I just hang around (if that makes any sense). I'm expected to take care of the kids and the house (and I work) but not given much of a say in anything.
We are supposed to have a meeting with the kids this weekend after we've discussed the issues. I'm kind of dreading it, as I'm usually the one who has to give in to keep the peace and not have everyone in the house angry with me.

Thanks again for the post.
 
Wow, you’re really in the thick of it. Sounds like their mom wants her own time.
I absolutely understand the “just hang around” feeling. Don’t be afraid to assert yourself in the meeting. As you accommodate them, they should accommodate you.
Good luck :)
 

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