if you have no use or consenual commiseration or shareing what are you here for then?it isnt to help for sure because as you said yourself all the advise you ever gave me certainly was trite and useless,you only aggrevated my situation tbh by causeing me more stress.however i met a few people who helped me just by listening ,and in the end the only person who can really help you is you yourself and thats what i have done .no one has done anything for me i have done it all ,im happpy about that!!! however this forum did have its use in getting me thru one night were a hasty decision could have destroyd my chance to ever fix things
suicide is a permanate solution to a temporary problem ,yet most have had that temptation and i for one am glad i made it thru .
i however , came .shared and have improved my situation greatly i just find most of what you say contradicts itself no matter how you try to mask it by useing words most of us have to pull a dictionary out to understand , after we look it up we realize your still just talking to talk and no actual substance or input is ever intended
its not that we dont believe that you dont need shareing ,you just go out of your way to try and appear superior to the point ,you take way to much energy , make us feel worse for trying to talk to you because no matter if we write you a essay or write you a book you will still claim you go unanswered,you dont want help ,so why are you here then?

well i dont see many people celebrateing to be honest .....i myself am only doing better , i have a long way to go .but better is better than stuck in the same pattern, so wish us well were happy not trying to impress you.
however you asked how and why this forum was any help i gave a answer to both ,you still insist you arent answered i just think you really enjoy trying to bait unhappy people to amuse yourself ,kind of as if we are a experiment ,if it makes you feel better and people will put up with you fine i guess ??
but im going into surgery in a hour so as much as i would love to continue this i am off to lose this damn gall bladder finally ,less pain =more smiles
you should try it smiling ..........with us not at us then you may not be so lonely yourself ........since that must be the only reason you are here ,unless you are just observing us as lab rats .........then that would explain your self-interest and inability to show compassion

"if you have no use or consenual commiseration or shareing what are you here for then?"

It's not as if I have not discussed exactly that question already. Indeed, I would be pleased to discuss it further, if you are really interested and not simply upset with me.

For one thing, I am disappointed to report that I seem to be the only one here who continues with follow up questions and discussion in order to arrive at all actually helpful recommendations to others. -Who shows genuine interest or sheer ordinary curiosity, instead of simply evincing tender sentiment upon cue! And I think that this is important. Beause that is how I understand true compassion.

For another thing, as in my "Dialectic" thread, I think that it is worth while first to identify our stimulus and interaction needs, then to imagine the kind of circumstance under which one might lead a happier lives, before only then tying to strategize.

Because, there is a great deal of social mythology about even somewhat robotic procedures for meeting others. And while all this seems to work well enough for some people, it can even be quite frustrating and destructive for others. Indeed, it strikes me as vastly insensitive, to say the least, simply to brush simply off anyone who doesn't fit your mold that way.

For another matter, I would encourage people to look around them and discover for themselves the nature and better appreciate dynamics of different relationships, than to become all wrapped up in the standard social myths and expectations about how relationships are supposed to be. Because that is another problem that increases needless disappointment, maladaptation and unhappiness.

I certainly hope that any of this answers your question, if you are really interested, that is, if it really was a question, and not just angry protest or dismissal.

I can also assure you that I still see no answer here to my request for explanation of how and why as to any success attributed to participation on this forum. But if you insist on calling me a liar, then I'm not sure what you expect me to do about it. I can only ask you to consider that people of good will can and do disagree or break down in communication. And that getting all huffy seldom helps. I only ask that you can appreciate the thought that I have put in trying to answer you seriously and put aside your hostility. I do not believe that I am actually your enemy.

Lonely2beeme,

Don't waste your precious breath. YOU are a kind and sincere person, not a spamming automaton.

It's like talking to a wall.

A pretentious, silly, vapid wall.

Now, now, Aaron.

Temper, temper!

Is that a gleam of human emotion I spy?

Why not answer a question with a question in some dull Platonic farce?

Indeed, why not?

Why do alot of the threads in this forum always end up with members debating about which is the best way to deliver advice? The thread goes way off the original topic and sometimes ends up being locked because of the aguments and the language displayed. There are topics on this forum about giving advice. Can't you just stay in those threads without overflowing into other areas???

This post was last modified: 07-27-2007 09:56 AM by Blue Sky.

I agree with Blue Sky. How'd you all get off on this tangent when there was such a positive thread started here; a success story..

Robin: No, actually, the question of what made anyone change there ways, was the last question to come to my mind. Actually, my questions are, exactly what did they do, and particularly on this forum, and then: how and why did it work?

Indeed, as regards change of mood or outlook, psychotherapy is a distinctly separate issue, however important. Indeed, feeling better about real problems has even been known to undermine one's motivation to act in order to improve real situations! Moreover, there is nothing you can instruct people on how to feel better. Anyone who understands psychology understands why that is futile at best and destructive at worst. That is why psychotherapist are actually forbidden from such an approach. Reinforcement of denial or invalidation of another's suffering, are each misguided responses at very best.

Briefly, I am simply not looking for a support group.

As for discouraged people giving up on standard trite they've already tried at some length, indeed, that is exactly why I advocate greater attention to detail and creative problem solving. But perhaps, to you they are all crazy and simply need to lighten up!


Blue Sky: "Why do alot of the threads in this forum always end up with members debating about which is the best way to deliver advice?" -you ask... Because the question is begged! Because the discussion is interesting and of vital concern. And because without pursuing controversy on such crucial issues, we only work blithely at cross purpose.

How is it that I infer you viewing others as crazy? -you ask, Robin... I mean, that it never seems to occur to you to approach any of life's daunting problems whatsoever, as real, practical and external in the outside world, but only as a weakness of character, a damnable erroneous deficiency of "don't worry, be happy!"

You also claim that I criticize others, but offer no advice of my own. Not so, Robin. When I have managed to really discus whatever situation with anyone, I have endeavored to refine my advice therefrom. Moreover, I have offered my very best advice how better to approach our issues. But if you want me simply to jump to conclusions, precisely as I criticize others for doing, I will continue trying not to. I see no need for any more of that lazy and misguided method.

Indeed, I am not here in the game if making anyone fell better except by actually paying attention or by really being of any use.

And indeed the fear of controversy is the worst handicap that any free individual can have in a democracy. So, naturally, exactly that is ingrained from the Hell of grade school, our educational system being the bastion of heteronomy that it is. And so, if you truly want to pursue theraputic goals, I can think of few matters more important to discuss, than how to get over such debilitating aversion and ever come to grips with our world.

The approach that I am actually suggesting, has already been stated and restated by me more than once. I thought that, in my struggles to express myself, that in this very thread, I finally did arrive at a succinct restatement that was clearer for you. So, unless you have specific questions, may I assume that you actually do understand what I suggest? Why not actually discuss it? -instead of simply declaring that there can be no mew thing under the sun!

"What other method is there else to go by, with text, to try and make people understand that they themselves are the one's who have to overcome the practical problem of real life, than simply convincing them that it isn't as bad as they think it is?" - you ask? Are you serious?!!

When, for a most common example on the Internet, folks advise one another on computer maintenance, is not information routinely gathered and exchanged, back and forth, in order to analyze whatever problems, develop strategy, then to consider action? Or do they simply try to reassure one another to conquer debilitating technophobia?!

Clearly, there are people lonely because, for example, of a purely psychological stumbling block such as extreme shyness. But even in such case, at least if it is very serious, more than encouragement is needed for therapeutic success. And you still don't seem to grok that there are any other obstacles except psychiatric! Indeed, strictly for a simple and trivial example, one common cause of loneliness is not drinking alcohol! Socially, that little will be the kiss of death! And there are far more complex issues, which I will not go to at this moment.

Honestly, I see the goal of simply consoling one another as already very well covered on this forum. That's your department, and I will be happy to leave all of that to you. For such is not where I am needed, nor what I am missing either. But you seem unable to accept me as I am, let alone to address any real world situation.

I find whatever little hope of any serious consideration and better creative ideas a thousand times more caring, validating and reassuring than no end of touchy-feely consolation. I love to feel that anyone is really interested. And it's not that hard to tell. So the sweet nothings just don't cut it for me, thank you!

Even Psychotherapy does not consist of pep talk or onslaught of consolation. Indeed, go ahead and run a websearch on the terms "Freud" and "Injunction against suggestion." Rather, Psychotherapy is a probing Dialectic to reach whatever inner root of suffering. But even Psychotherapy should never be twisted into a retreat from external problems to confront. After all, you are the one exhorting fearlessness! But what then? All such fearlessness accomplishes is to leave only the real world challenges to discuss. -Which you are not interested in, being as you declare that everyone should deal with their problems themselves, by themselves. So behind all of your strokes of soothing consolation and incessant motivational speaking, actually lurks a smug disinterest! Whereas, I, for one, still need to believe in the possibility of entirely healthy substantive cooperation that begins with genuine and detailed interest and attention. And at least I am willing to try.

"I don't see myself as a therapeut or a psychiatrist, but i know of ways to get a person to do as i say and believe me when i say it's the best thing to do, and that's by good old fashion trust. If You really do care about someone, they will listen to You like You were the guide to life itself."

You may easily be any less the Svengali than you prefer to imagine. And perhaps you also labour under misapprehension due to what statisticians call: biased sample.

Before trying to control and lead anyone else, surely the first thing to do is to come up with anything helpful for them to do for themselves. However you have simply dismissed and derided those who will not follow your instructions, as counter productive to there own best interests. But maybe the problem is in your superficial and stereotypical advice. -Not to mention that you may not be as persuasive as you are so convinced that you are. Your longitudinal data is also severely limited because you only care to hear back later from eager participants in the next pep rally. Alas, you hardly strike me as friendly enough to criticism, to be able to invite and objectively follow any less favorable results. -nor all that curious, either! Nevertheless, different people often have entirely different needs, beyond the ken of your oppressively positive thinking and distain for all hesitation. And of that, I, for one, am glad.