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For those in relationships or who have been...what do you consider healthy fighting? I'm not naive enough to think that couples don't fight...but what is acceptable, what is not? What is/was your limit? I'm just curious because I'm a recovering doormat and I can't judge if I'm letting too much slide or not. I know if there are more bad times than good, it's a sign to move on...but sometimes I get too sentimental, or maybe feel pity or guilt...and my mind can't figure out if it's time to leave or not.

I'm not a fighter at all. I tend to let people walk all over me then blow up when I've had enough and my limits have been pushed beyond tolerable. That's when friendships and relationships end for good.

I realize that everyone reaches their own limit and has their own standards. I certainly am not talking about physical abuse...but sometimes I think that the verbal and emotional is a little over the top...I know that's cryptic, I was avoiding the word "abuse" because I don't think it's that bad in my situation, I think it's a lack of maturity, but I know he tends to "play to hurt" at times and asking him to stop doesn't work...I guess that reading others' opinions would be some food for thought. Even if you haven't been in a relationship, what are your standards? I used to think I'd walk out if x, y or z happened, but in reality that's not the case at all.
(09-12-2014, 10:42 AM)Pike Creek Wrote: [ -> ]For those in relationships or who have been...what do you consider healthy fighting? I'm not naive enough to think that couples don't fight...but what is acceptable, what is not? What is/was your limit? I'm just curious because I'm a recovering doormat and I can't judge if I'm letting too much slide or not. I know if there are more bad times than good, it's a sign to move on...but sometimes I get too sentimental, or maybe feel pity or guilt...and my mind can't figure out if it's time to leave or not.

I'm not a fighter at all. I tend to let people walk all over me then blow up when I've had enough and my limits have been pushed beyond tolerable. That's when friendships and relationships end for good.

I realize that everyone reaches their own limit and has their own standards. I certainly am not talking about physical abuse...but sometimes I think that the verbal and emotional is a little over the top...I know that's cryptic, I was avoiding the word "abuse" because I don't think it's that bad in my situation, I think it's a lack of maturity, but I know he tends to "play to hurt" at times and asking him to stop doesn't work...I guess that reading others' opinions would be some food for thought. Even if you haven't been in a relationship, what are your standards? I used to think I'd walk out if x, y or z happened, but in reality that's not the case at all.

I'm the wrong person to provide advice as Im fully intolerant of any BS with relationships now days.
There doesn't have to be any fights.

Do healthy relationships have conflict and disagreement? You betcha. And these things can be discussed in depth. Couples can have open, honest, communication and conversation. Does that mean the conflict will be resolved? No, not always. Sometimes the gaps between two people simply can't be crossed. Sometimes an agreement can't be reached.

But never is there a good reason to resort to yelling, pettiness, bitter retorts, insults, enforced periods of silence... none of that, as far as I can see, is conducive to a healthy relationship.

You can have a peaceful relationship, even when there are disagreements.

As an aside, if your partner is "playing to hurt," sometimes, then you need to let him know in no uncertain terms that it's wounding you and that you believe it may be harmful to your relationship. I can assure you, if he cares about you then explaining it to him will be beneficial for him just as much as it is for you. If he also wants a healthy relationship, then he needs to be intensely interested in hearing your concerns and in correcting behavior that may be harmful to the relationship. Part of your responsibility (if your goal is to have a good relationship) is to offer criticism when warranted.. and part of his is to hear it.

As I said... it's about honesty and openness.
(09-12-2014, 10:56 AM)stork_error Wrote: [ -> ]I'm the wrong person to provide advice as Im fully intolerant of any BS with relationships now days.

A balance between fully intolerant and doormat is what I'm trying to find.

(09-12-2014, 11:04 AM)Badjedidude Wrote: [ -> ]As an aside, if your partner is "playing to hurt," sometimes, then you need to let him know in no uncertain terms that it's wounding you and that you believe it may be harmful to your relationship. I can assure you, if he cares about you then explaining it to him will be beneficial for him just as much as it is for you. If he also wants a healthy relationship, then he needs to be intensely interested in hearing your concerns and in correcting behavior that may be harmful to the relationship. Part of your responsibility (if your goal is to have a good relationship) is to offer criticism when warranted.. and part of his is to hear it.

As I said... it's about honesty and openness.

My online-friend said this to me recently: "If you tell him that certain behaviours that he does are hurting you, and if he keeps repeating the behaviours when you disagree, if you forgive him continually without consequence, you are the one responsible for "teaching" him that he can keep doing it."

This is so childish and primal. Not what she said, but the idea of it. I don't want to be in a relationship to teach someone how to treat another with respect and love. I understand one or two mistakes, nobody is perfect and people have to get to know each other, but repeatedly doing things that he knows hurts me? I don't want to resort to ultimatums and threats...but then, if I feel that I have to resort to that, it tells me that my partner is not particularly interested in changing those aspects that really do hurt me, dismissing my feelings and not taking me seriously.

My goal is to have an honest, open, loving and mature, long-lasting relationship. I've learned from the past to be gentle and calm when disagreeing, but he's the opposite, very aggressive and hurtful - makes me all the more submissive and I walk away, but I always seem to be the one trying to make things right after, even if he was the one to cause all the hurt and strife.

I guess I'm tired of it, but at the same time growing a little apathetic and not caring if he stays or goes. I don't like that it's reaching that point.
^^^I know that in your first post in this thread, you said you were avoiding the word abuse, but this:

Pike Creek Wrote:...but repeatedly doing things that he knows hurts me? I don't want to resort to ultimatums and threats...but then, if I feel that I have to resort to that, it tells me that my partner is not particularly interested in changing those aspects that really do hurt me, dismissing my feelings and not taking me seriously.

My goal is to have an honest, open, loving and mature, long-lasting relationship. I've learned from the past to be gentle and calm when disagreeing, but he's the opposite, very aggressive and hurtful - makes me all the more submissive and I walk away, but I always seem to be the one trying to make things right after, even if he was the one to cause all the hurt and strife.

I guess I'm tired of it, but at the same time growing a little apathetic and not caring if he stays or goes. I don't like that it's reaching that point.

...sounds like abuse to me.

*shrug*
This does sound abusive to me as well.

That aside, unfortunately, Pike, people we love don't have manuals on how to deal with us, we have to show our partners the way AND reinforce it if they are not getting the point. They might not even do it on purpose. Say, if your SO isn't doing the behavior you mentioned just to upset you, which is a possibility, maybe he just doesn't know it hurts you that bad, because (as I understood it) you keep letting it slide with no serious warning.

Does it suck having to "teach" people? Yeah. Is it necessary? Also.
Yeah, it sucks. I do let things slide, in that I don't always react to his behaviour. He swears a lot, I really hate that. He used to swear at me during arguments and when things cooled down, we forgave each other and things were typically lovey-dovey again, I told him with all vulnerability that when he swears at me, it reminds me of my abusive upbringing and especially my father who used to demean me unbearably, and although I did 9 years of therapy, that fear is always there and it makes me feel worthless. I was so honest about all that, I don't expect him to change overnight, but he doesn't even make an effort anymore. He always promises not to do it again, but that's where I let things slide. I let him break the promises and continue to forgive him.

I know some would say it's because he's young. But not all "young people" are immature and aggressive. I have the benefit of being in my 40's and have experienced a lot, not so hot-headed, more relaxed and looking for peaceful solutions rather than all out angry feuds...that could be my justification for letting it slide, but gosh it hurts so much.

Update: I just tried to have a mature discussion and typically it all came down to it being my fault. He said he was just humouring me in the past by saying that he won't swear at me anymore. I told him again that it hurts me when he swears at me and he says I need to love him for who he is because cursing for him is meaningless.

Objective advice please? Am I being too hard about not wanting him to swear? I just told him to leave by the end of the month. I feel like I'm overreacting, but maybe that's the doormat in me.
Cursing for *him* is meaningless....but it's not for you and that's the crucial point here, isn't it? No, you're not being a doormat and you're not overreacting - you are discussing your feelings in a rational, mature way and if he respected you at all, he would make a concerted effort to stop the swearing...instead of just 'humouring' you.
^^^I won't tell you what you should do, but I'll tell you what I would do.

I'd wave goodbye to his pretty little butt as it walked away.

Not that I'm into young men's butts. Totally not. Cool

But really... it sounds like he's not willing to budge even the slightest bit, only pays lip service to you in order to get you to shut up when you bring him legitimate concerns, repeatedly swears at you when asked not to.. He expects you to "love him for who he is?" Why can't he return the favor?

...I don't think you're overreacting. I think getting away from this guy may be a wise decision.

*shrug*
(09-12-2014, 02:58 PM)Badjedidude Wrote: [ -> ]^^^I won't tell you what you should do, but I'll tell you what I would do.

I'd wave goodbye to his pretty little butt as it walked away.

Not that I'm into young men's butts. Totally not. Cool

But really... it sounds like he's not willing to budge even the slightest bit, only pays lip service to you in order to get you to shut up when you bring him legitimate concerns, repeatedly swears at you when asked not to.. He expects you to "love him for who he is?" Why can't he return the favor?

...I don't think you're overreacting. I think getting away from this guy may be a wise decision.

*shrug*

I echo this ^^ sorry, Pike Creek, been there, done that. Don't waste any more time second-guessing yourself. Trust what your heart is saying, as painful as that may be. Hugs, hang in there. Message me anytime...
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