Scientific basis for why we are the way we are?

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futurecatlady

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I always wonder just what it is that draws that invisible line between normal and lonely. I guess you could say it's looks, or friendliness. But the truth is, the other side is just as randomly distributed in those traits as this side is. I'm quite unattractive, but I am not deformed--in fact, in dim lighting and from a distance I might even look like a typical girl. So why have I never had male attention of any kind, even the lecherous variety? (Not that I want to be hit on by random drunks. I don't, at all, but I do wonder what it means that I'm not even good enough for a semi-conscious bar patron to make so much as a half-hearted pass at.) Same goes for personality. Talking to me probably akin to watching paint peel while a clock ticks nearby at quarter speed, but at least I'm usually conscious. I know people who are shyer than even me and, although it is cruel to say so, not exactly a barrel of fun. And yet I see them frolicking about, silent but happy and surrounded by friends who seem to take utter delight in the few words they might say.

And then there's the other extreme. The people who seem normal on the outside, but who have some sort of cosmic, radiant power that causes all who cross their path to love them. I know people who literally have too many friends than they can keep track of, and it is due to absolutely zero effort on their part. They just attract them unconsciously, like lint to a wool coat. When people like that exist, why are there people like me, to whom any conversation where the recipient does not get up and walk off while I am still completing a sentence is considered successful?

I seriously wonder if it's biological. Apparently sex researchers are uninterested in studying incels (perhaps that, too, is a sign?) but I think it would be fascinating to look more deeply into what factors make some people socially successful, while others struggle greatly. Maybe we emit some pheromone that is subconsciously unpleasant to humans, or our ear-to-nose ratio gives some sort of nonverbal cue that we would make poor mates. Or it could be psychological. How do our conversation patterns differ from the rest of the population? Body language? Rate of blinking? So many different variables that could have significance in this issue.

Discuss.
 
interesting. maybe its an insanely complex set of factors similar to the things you described that we couldnt possibly understand. there is SO MUCH that we dont even know about how our own brain works that we are very far away from finding out anything like this. it does make you think though.
 
In my opinion I think it's an inability to adapt, and/or improper adaptations acquired through a warped perspective of the world.

The first thing to consider is that being lonely only bothers people because of their perceptions and values. There's plenty of people just as "lonely" as they are who aren't bothered in the slightest by it.

In fact some cultures consider isolation to be the only way to achieve true happiness and fulfillment in life.

The second thing is more personal observation, but I've found that every lonely person I've ever met has had either some major social flaws (ie. poor hygiene, lack of social grace, etc), complains a lot, or just has some weird vibe to them that makes me feel uncomfortable around them, or makes them come off as being really annoying.

So yeah, I think a lot of it has to do with mentality subconciously transforming into behaviours and subtle cues. And afterall, depression is a pretty self-perpetuating cycle, so it makes sense that it's so hard to break out of this.

In any case, I don't think loneliness is a problem in itself, I think it's a side-effect of multiple factors.
 
That man came from monkeys, not literally, but we are a monkey that the Earth has existed for millions of years with people who live and eat foods that are bright colors, namely red, orange, purple will help you live longer that cigarettes cause cancer cinergy.
 
I was born in 1978. From 1992 to 2000 my life was full of people, many l just met, some so called friends, some actual friends, a few (very few) girlfriends but I seemed to attract more women than I realized at the time and I'm no adonis. I was always a bit of a drifter and liked to wander alone and hang with whoever and then be on my way. But all the time I became more and more troubled by people and and much of the human world and from 2000 I began to cut off from people more and more. In 2004 I cut off from everyone I've ever known and been an absolute loner ever since. But I still went out into the world regardless and still seemed to meet people sometimes but would make sure I stayed alone. At first it was something I had to do and up until 2008 I made it a full and varied experience but since 2008 I noticed I'd become like a ghost among people, people seemed to barely acknowledge me at all and nowadays I'm just a complete recluse (I leave the flat about two hours a week).

Like you say I think there are many different things that caused me and my life to be as they were and are now.

When I had a group of people I hung with other people seemed to notice me and talk to me and women would make advances. Once I became a loner I began to lose touch with that social world and less people would talk to me and even if a woman was advancing I think I lost the ability to tell if it was so.
Since 2008 I tried meeting people again and have had some people try to befriend me but my mental illness and alcohol problem and perhaps being so used to being alone caused me to tell them all I couldn't be around people. So for me my mental illness and alcohol problem play a part.
Also age plays a part I think but I'm still trying to work that one out.
Plus where you live can make a difference I'm sure. There are a lot of youth where I live and I get the impression that to them I'm over the hill when most of my favorite musicians are now in their 40's and 50's and not considered over the hill by people who know age doesn't matter concerning some things. And it's a very sociable place and mostly people are mainly morons (chavs and such) here and I know I'd be much happier living in a more rural location which is less sociable and being a loner here I feel it stands out and I know that there are many places where it's okay, even better to be a loner (and one of those places is where I shall live one day as that's now my aim. Thanks to Anneli Rufus for giving me my first locations where it's better for loners' to live).

So if you really want a fuller social life if can find yourself some people to hang out with your social world should become fuller and fuller and the more you're in it the more in tune you become with that world. Pubs, joining a local club, maybe your local church, music gigs and clubs, art classes, just getting out there and daring to strike up random conversations...depends what you're into I guess. I know it's not easy and wish you all the best. You've helped me to realize some things I hadn't before so THANKYOU.
 
Philip Larkin - This Be The Verse

They fresia you up, your mum and dad.
They may not mean to, but they do.
They fill you with the faults they had
And add some extra, just for you.

But they were messed up in their turn
By fools in old-style hats and coats,
Who half the time were soppy-stern
And half at one another's throats.

Man hands on misery to man.
It deepens like a coastal shelf.
Get out as early as you can,
And don't have any kids yourself.
 
futurecatlady said:
I always wonder just what it is that draws that invisible line between normal and lonely. I guess you could say it's looks, or friendliness. But the truth is, the other side is just as randomly distributed in those traits as this side is. I'm quite unattractive, but I am not deformed--in fact, in dim lighting and from a distance I might even look like a typical girl. So why have I never had male attention of any kind, even the lecherous variety? (Not that I want to be hit on by random drunks. I don't, at all, but I do wonder what it means that I'm not even good enough for a semi-conscious bar patron to make so much as a half-hearted pass at.) Same goes for personality. Talking to me probably akin to watching paint peel while a clock ticks nearby at quarter speed, but at least I'm usually conscious. I know people who are shyer than even me and, although it is cruel to say so, not exactly a barrel of fun. And yet I see them frolicking about, silent but happy and surrounded by friends who seem to take utter delight in the few words they might say.

And then there's the other extreme. The people who seem normal on the outside, but who have some sort of cosmic, radiant power that causes all who cross their path to love them. I know people who literally have too many friends than they can keep track of, and it is due to absolutely zero effort on their part. They just attract them unconsciously, like lint to a wool coat. When people like that exist, why are there people like me, to whom any conversation where the recipient does not get up and walk off while I am still completing a sentence is considered successful?

I seriously wonder if it's biological. Apparently sex researchers are uninterested in studying incels (perhaps that, too, is a sign?) but I think it would be fascinating to look more deeply into what factors make some people socially successful, while others struggle greatly. Maybe we emit some pheromone that is subconsciously unpleasant to humans, or our ear-to-nose ratio gives some sort of nonverbal cue that we would make poor mates. Or it could be psychological. How do our conversation patterns differ from the rest of the population? Body language? Rate of blinking? So many different variables that could have significance in this issue.

Discuss.

Fascinating. I have thought about this too. This girl I like also has the quality of attracting hordes of people even although shes not very hot, in fact kind of fat and has multiple issues, even although the outside world sees her as smart, confident and successful.

My theory is people like us somehow show to the world that something is wrong with us.That could be either by body language or could be something chemical or biological too. Maybe evolutionary human beings were programmed to stay away from the mentally unstable ones so that partners find healthy mates to reproduce. The only way out of it is I think is to deceive the mind somehow and not feel abnormal.

From observing this girls social interactions she always meets people as if they were her best friend and those people stick to her like glue.. even although she ends up hating most of them!!! thats another story although.. her own issues!!

Now how to trick the mind is another issue. It needs more scientific research. As to how we are like this, I think it could be because of some essential socialization skills we did not develop in childhood or early adulthood. I know I did not, was mostly very shy and reserved and found people of my type only.

Sigh.. but its good to find people here with similar problems...
 
It would make an interesting scientific study. My guess, at least in my own case, is that it's primarily a problem with body language and awkward conversation. I have little social contact these days with strangers, so when I am suddenly required to make rapid smalltalk with someone my anxiety shows in stilted speech and abrupt gestures.

It's obvious in other people too. One day I was awoken by my neighbor and a woman having a conversation outside. Her voice was very cheerful, friendly, and outgoing. A natural conversationalist and bubbly. You could practically hear her smiling. My neighbor, whom I've talked to before, is a friendly and likeable person but just a bit awkward in comparison. I noticed his speech had instances of overly-long pauses, repeated words like "Exactly, exactly…", and so on. It was clear he was less confident about what to say next. Even their volumes differed, with her voice strong and a little loud and his soft-spoken.

Surely I have the same awkwardness to my sudden conversations with strangers, especially if they last too long. Partly because I need practice, and partly because I do alot of mental filtering before I speak (can't appear overly eccentric) so the result is overly polite rather than a warm and open demeanor.
 
My problem is definitely within myself. There's just something about me that doesn't like people. I have no problems talking to strangers and I make friends well enough, I guess, but after a while I start wishing they would just go away and quit bothering me all the time. Yet there is the rare person that I'm strongly drawn to for some reason, and those people usually seem to feel towards me the way I feel towards others. They're polite to me, and will occasionally do stuff with me, but it's pretty obvious they're not interested in being my new best friend. Eventually I get tired of trying and lose contact with them.

So either I push people away or only let myself like people that push me away.
 
I think that most people are stupid and they only feel comfortable around other stupid people.

"youre weird, im going to go be a tool now, goodbye"
 
This is such a good thread! Thank you everyone for contributing such thought-provoking ideas.

The problem is a very complex one, but I don't think it's caused by an uncontrollable aspect of our body (pheromones, ear-to-nose ratio, rate of blinking, etc). I know some people who have rather unusual appearances and are still very socially successful. Maybe body language has something to do with it, but in my opinion it's primarily the nature and style of your conversational skills (or lack of).

It's so tragic that some people come across as really annoying, when in fact they're trying so hard to just fit in and not be annoying.


JamaisVu said:
Surely I have the same awkwardness to my sudden conversations with strangers, especially if they last too long. Partly because I need practice, and partly because I do alot of mental filtering before I speak (can't appear overly eccentric) so the result is overly polite rather than a warm and open demeanor.

Wow, I think you've hit the nail on the head there. "Mental filtering" or "thinking pauses" during conversation is definitely a major factor. I'm a very deep thinker, so I have to think very carefully before I say anything, or I'll end up saying something which I'll overanalyse and regret later. But many people seem to be very confident to just chat away without any long "thinking pauses", which makes for a more natural conversation flow. Maybe they're just very well-rounded people, so whatever someone says, they can immediately think of a relevant reply. Not being able to think of anything relevant (or witty) to say really kills a conversation.


coricopat said:
I have no problems talking to strangers and I make friends well enough, I guess, but after a while I start wishing they would just go away and quit bothering me all the time.

It ashames me to say that I sometimes feel this peculiar feeling too. Maybe it's because I have such a yearning for deep meaningful conversations with friends. I really only have one friend who I can talk to about absolutely anything. With all my other friends, I have to limit the depth of my conversation, sometimes massively, so that all we can talk about is what's on TV and what we did over the weekend. That really frustrates me, and sometimes I would rather have no conversation at all than have to make endless tedious "small talk".

Keep those thought-provoking posts coming guys - I love this thread!
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