"Stop Hanging out with Women and Start Dating Them"

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fortasse

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Stop Hanging Out With Women And Start Dating Them

So I am currently obsessed with the site artofmanliness.com, and I just read this article on there and thought I might share it with y'all since some of the things said in the article seem to mirror some of the comments made on this site.

I'm not going to post the whole article in this thread. That is what the link is for, but this comment explaining the decline in dating gave me a good chuckle: "4. Men today are wussies. Men today aren’t very resilient. They don’t know how to handle rejection or failure, so they avoid rejection or failure by not asking women out on dates."

Also laughed at this: "Asking a woman out on a date isn’t rocket science. When you ask, though, do it in person or over the phone. If you’re poking a woman you’re interested in on Facebook, you lose any credibility as a man."(emphasis added)

Anyways, it's a pretty decent article, and it's not just a good read for men. Women can learn from it too.

Oh... "If you’re over 18 and you’re still using Facebook applications to let someone know you’re interested in them, you need to be punched in the face." LOL I love it.
 
I have watched the pool of "date-able" women dry up. Show me an honest, moral and overall decent human being and I would consider dating her.

Until then, it's manipulate and bang. They are playing us. It might as well go both ways.

Why should I spend my hard-earned money, my emotional currency and my precious time on a person who only knows how to use and never appreciates?

Would you?

I'm cynical. No need to tell me.

Actually I guess it all depends on one's definition of: dating.

I will date: have fun with, give companionship to, have sex with

I won't date: pursue for commitment, invest myself or my feelings
 
Kenny said:
I have watched the pool of "date-able" women dry up. Show me an honest, moral and overall decent human being and I would consider dating her.

Until then, it's manipulate and bang. They are playing us. It might as well go both ways.

Your former paragraph seems to contradict your latter. You want an honest, moral and overall decent woman, yet you admit to being manipulative and using women only for copulation.

Why should I spend my hard-earned money, my emotional currency and my precious time on a person who only knows how to use and never appreciates?

Would you?

No, I do not think I would invest my time, money, and emotions into an unappreciative person. Then again, how would I know they were of such character if I never associated with them first?

I really don't think this article is suggesting you go out and date lousy women, though.

Actually I guess it all depends on one's definition of: dating.
Dating, according to the article, "...consists of pairing off with someone in a temporary commitment so you can get to know the person better and perhaps start a long term relationship with them."

Traditionally dating was about getting to know a person by devoting time to them. One woman has told me that her mom would date several men at once back in the '30s in order to get to know the men better, and this was not considered unusual or odd. Dating was nothing more than getting to know a person to see if you two were compatible. Certainly, the definition of dating has changed since then, but I think the general idea still applies. You spend extra amounts of time with someone in order to figure out if they are worth committing to in a serious relationship.

So a "date" is nothing more than a predetermined time to meet up with someone in order to socialize and figure out if you have enough in common in order to possibly spend more time with each other.

So, asking a person out on a "date" is not committing yourself to a long term relationship. It is a bit like test-driving a car. Take it around the block to see if you like it. Go out on a date, talk, see if you have any common interests. If it doesn't work out, then that's that.

A date.
 
fortasse said:
Dating, according to the article, "...consists of pairing off with someone in a temporary commitment so you can get to know the person better and perhaps start a long term relationship with them."

I'm game. :D

There was nothing wrong with what your mother did in her dating life. It's actually admirable and sensible.

The problem is nowadays everybody FUCKS and LIES TO those whom they are DATING.
 
I don't understand why people always have to complicate things. Whatever happened to just liking someone, telling them you like them, and then go out with them? It's not that difficult.
 
It should be simple, Vanilla. For the honest and well-intentioned among us, we'd like to think it is. How many of your relationships have been simple or ended well though? In how many were they complicated by lying and deceit?

Human beings are a fairly pathetic species with a strong tendency toward lying and manipulating. As a matter of fact, I will even go so far as to say that in the absence of morals and beliefs, the ONLY thing most people operate on IS deceit and manipulation.

As a society there has been a decline in our morals, our ethics, our civility, our responsibility. Is it any wonder that everybody lies and cheats now? No, it's not, because people have been reduced to their rawest forms of human nature. Pathetic.

When we no longer have those customs or traditions or beliefs that help us strive to be our best selves and hold us accountable when we are not, we turn into:

Rome.

and Rome was full of whores and charlatans.
 
Kenny said:
fortasse said:
Dating, according to the article, "...consists of pairing off with someone in a temporary commitment so you can get to know the person better and perhaps start a long term relationship with them."

I'm game. :D

There was nothing wrong with what your mother did in her dating life. It's actually admirable and sensible.

lol it wasn't my mom. My mom wasn't alive in the 30s. I agree that is was rather sensible, though.

The problem is nowadays everybody FUCKS and LIES TO those whom they are DATING.
I wouldn't really know. I don't date, but I imagine if I did date, I'd be rather honest. At least, as honest as is proper. I wouldn't be so honest as to tell the guy how many times I use the restroom a day or something of the sort.

If you are continually dating women of subpar character, maybe you are searching for women in the wrong places. ... or maybe you're just a very unfortunate fellow. I don't know.
 
Kenny said:
fortasse said:
Dating, according to the article, "...consists of pairing off with someone in a temporary commitment so you can get to know the person better and perhaps start a long term relationship with them."

I'm game. :D

There was nothing wrong with what your mother did in her dating life. It's actually admirable and sensible.

lol it wasn't my mom. My mom wasn't alive in the 30s. I agree that is was rather sensible, though.

The problem is nowadays everybody FUCKS and LIES TO those whom they are DATING.
I wouldn't really know. I don't date, but I imagine if I did date, I'd be rather honest. At least, as honest as is proper. I wouldn't be so honest as to tell the guy how many times I use the restroom a day or something of the sort.

If you are continually dating women of subpar character, maybe you are searching for women in the wrong places. ... or maybe you're just a very unfortunate fellow. I don't know.


VanillaCreme said:
I don't understand why people always have to complicate things. Whatever happened to just liking someone, telling them you like them, and then go out with them? It's not that difficult.

I don't know. I think it is because society has taught us that dating is complicated, and so it makes us try to make it complicated so that we can be in tune with society.

I certainly agree that dating should be a rather simple affair.
 
fortasse said:
If you are continually dating women of subpar character, maybe you are searching for women in the wrong places. ... or maybe you're just a very unfortunate fellow. I don't know.

I don't date either. I never really did. I've had a few females discover me and latch on (sorry for the pun). Most of my relationships have been parasitic in nature. People feed off of what they perceive to be my positivity and my naivete. What they always fail to understand is my other half. Now I have completely removed myself from the equation altogether. I know my value and I'm not budging. If there is a woman out there with an ounce of sense she will see my value and respond to it. I will not dance like a monkeyboy and peacock for attention like the other douches, and that sort of douchebaggery is rampant in the dating scene, exhibited by the males and encouraged and sought by the females. No thanks. I've got my pride.
 
Meeting people is difficult for me.

-I'm not in school
-I don't believe in flirting on the job, therefore I
-find flirting with someone who is on their job (ex. cashier at grocery store) inappropriate
-not into clubs or bars
-solitary hobbies

I'm smart enough to realize that I have to start going places where I'll have opportunities. I have preconceived notions about going places alone being a repellent in itself and I believe this hinders me from making progress. The smart part of me says to challenge that and just go anyway. The worst that could happen is nothing happens. But the pessimistic side of me says "you'll be the only one there alone. No one is going to want to talk with you. In fact, you'll feel somewhat embarassed, ESPECIALLY knowing that part of what motivated you to go was the idea of meeting someone." It's a funny thing, really. There are plenty of people out here who are in similar shoes as I. We all don't want to go alone. But imagine if many more of us just started going places alone...
 
jjam said:
Meeting people is difficult for me.

-I'm not in school
-I don't believe in flirting on the job, therefore I
-find flirting with someone who is on their job (ex. cashier at grocery store) inappropriate
-not into clubs or bars
-solitary hobbies
Indeed, that could make meeting people difficult.

I'm smart enough to realize that I have to start going places where I'll have opportunities. I have preconceived notions about going places alone being a repellent in itself and I believe this hinders me from making progress. The smart part of me says to challenge that and just go anyway. The worst that could happen is nothing happens. But the pessimistic side of me says "you'll be the only one there alone. No one is going to want to talk with you. In fact, you'll feel somewhat embarassed, ESPECIALLY knowing that part of what motivated you to go was the idea of meeting someone." It's a funny thing, really. There are plenty of people out here who are in similar shoes as I. We all don't want to go alone. But imagine if many more of us just started going places alone...

If you feel particularly odd going to social establishments alone, you could "practice" going out alone by maybe going to the movies alone or eating out alone. Just so you can get used to it, and then you could try a bar or something.

 
Hmmm I have been looking for a site like this one. The obnoxious design sold me on it. Too bad I am pretty exhausted so I cannot invest more time in reading the articles.

:D I really have nothing else to say. Too many guys just sit around hoping that a girl will date them. I am working to make that a past tense thing for me. Really when I look at this forum I see many females telling males "You will find a girl one day". Then I wonder, if that guy was close would you be that girl?

Anyway that is off topic. :D Great article.
VanillaCreme said:
I don't understand why people always have to complicate things. Whatever happened to just liking someone, telling them you like them, and then go out with them? It's not that difficult.
Isn't asking someone on a date a way to accomplish telling someone you like them?
Kenny said:
Actually I guess it all depends on one's definition of: dating.

I will date: have fun with, give companionship to, have sex with

I won't date: pursue for commitment, invest myself or my feelings
:p You know, you are allowed to have your own definition of dating. Then just assume her version of dating is the same as yours. You date to have a fun companionship and sex. She is dating for the same reason, unless she tells you otherwise. >_> at which point you will have to dump her, well if her definition is different.
 
Kenny said:
How many of your relationships have been simple or ended well though?

The relationship itself wasn't, and ended up pretty much a hatred mess. But getting into it was simple. I didn't say relationships were simple.
 
Love N Life is what you make of it.
When love N life ends...its gwenerlly a sad day.

Im with someone i love very much @ the moment.. OUr plans, hopes N dreams is to be with each other until the end.

Ive also dated over 8 women within this past year. And most if not all the women I dated dosnt hate me..
No dramma or turama..
Were mature adults.

Renae N I are very sexaully active. She wants it more than I do...
But were very tocuhy and romantic to begin with..
Shes a nympho..N Im probably a male version of her..

Most of the women I get invlove with are very sexual.
 
jjam said:
Meeting people is difficult for me.

-I'm not in school
-I don't believe in flirting on the job, therefore I
-find flirting with someone who is on their job (ex. cashier at grocery store) inappropriate
-not into clubs or bars
-solitary hobbies

I'm smart enough to realize that I have to start going places where I'll have opportunities. I have preconceived notions about going places alone being a repellent in itself and I believe this hinders me from making progress. The smart part of me says to challenge that and just go anyway. The worst that could happen is nothing happens. But the pessimistic side of me says "you'll be the only one there alone. No one is going to want to talk with you. In fact, you'll feel somewhat embarassed, ESPECIALLY knowing that part of what motivated you to go was the idea of meeting someone." It's a funny thing, really. There are plenty of people out here who are in similar shoes as I. We all don't want to go alone. But imagine if many more of us just started going places alone...

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and failing, yet still expecting a different outcome. You may be against such things as flirting with workers, or going to bars/clubs..but its not working..so change it. You're gonna have to step outside that comfort zone my friend. I have solitary hobbies too, but whenever possible I try my absolute best not to let them make me a solitary person as a whole. Your hobbies are only but one part of you. They aren't supposed to be EVERYTHING.
 
fortasse said:
Oh... "If you’re over 18 and you’re still using Facebook applications to let someone know you’re interested in them, you need to be punched in the face." LOL I love it.

Anyone know where Mike Tyson hangs out? I need a first class punch in the face :(

The irony is I used FB because I wanted to spare her feelings, not mine. Sigh.

 
We're bringing back da dead threads all up in dis biatch.

Mickemowse said:
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and failing, yet still expecting a different outcome. You may be against such things as flirting with workers, or going to bars/clubs..but its not working..so change it.

That's a faulty way of looking at things. He's complaining that he can't date while keeping up his principles. He's not complaining that his principles are working against him.
 
In this article, under, "Resurrect Dating", it says:
[4. Prepare for rejection. Face it. Not every woman you ask out is going to say yes. Prepare for that. It’s no big deal if she says no. Think about it. You’re no worse off getting rejected than you were before you asked. You didn’t have a date with her before, you don’t have a date with her now. Your situation has not changed.]
*
My thoughts on this; Mind you, I'm an average looking guy - nothing really special. I have asked many women out. Some have said yes, and some have said no. There is something that happens after I've put forth an invitation - Things change between us (the prospective date & I). There is usually a different sort of chemistry after I've asked them out.
In reference to the women who've declined my offer, they have post reactions. Some are flattered, and give me a funny 'smirk' when passing by. Some are outright offended (very few, but there are some like this), and act as if I just raped them, giving off the attitude, "how dare you ask me out!", and then they very seldom will even speak to me after.
So, there are instances where the situation between myself and the prospective date change, and a great deal at that!
I'm sure that many men can related to this phenomena as well as some of the women here who have actually been so bold as to ask someone out.
 
gnome3 said:
In this article, under, "Resurrect Dating", it says:
[4. Prepare for rejection. Face it. Not every woman you ask out is going to say yes. Prepare for that. It’s no big deal if she says no. Think about it. You’re no worse off getting rejected than you were before you asked. You didn’t have a date with her before, you don’t have a date with her now. Your situation has not changed.]
*
My thoughts on this; Mind you, I'm an average looking guy - nothing really special. I have asked many women out. Some have said yes, and some have said no. There is something that happens after I've put forth an invitation - Things change between us (the prospective date & I). There is usually a different sort of chemistry after I've asked them out.
In reference to the women who've declined my offer, they have post reactions. Some are flattered, and give me a funny 'smirk' when passing by. Some are outright offended (very few, but there are some like this), and act as if I just raped them, giving off the attitude, "how dare you ask me out!", and then they very seldom will even speak to me after.
So, there are instances where the situation between myself and the prospective date change, and a great deal at that!
I'm sure that many men can related to this phenomena as well as some of the women here who have actually been so bold as to ask someone out.

I can relate. For me, this is a big part of my fear in asking women out. The rejection is one thing, but the change afterwards is another thing altogether. The last girl I asked out changed towards me. Stopped speaking to me for the most part. The one before that used my affections to her advantage and treated me like an emotional punching bag. There is more to it for some men than just a fear of rejection.

And, this whole "get over it" approach is juvenile. It's very difficult for some men to just accept rejection when all they have known is rejection. The acceptance of others becomes their only way to find any self worth and so to risk a rejection is extremely as the rejection would be extremely painful for them and in some cases cripple their self esteem.

As for deserving to get punched... again, very juvenile. Some men struggle with emotions to a point where expressing any becomes very difficult. For instance, my family has always been very reserved and emotions are often not involved in our every day speech nor how we approach it. I got drunk one night and told my grandad how important he was to me and how I viewed him as a father, and he just gave me a blank look and remained silent. How awkward did I feel. Add that to countless rejections by potential friends and partners and it adds to a fear of expressing emotion which can be debilitating for some, and I admit has been for me at times. But yeah, genuine fear, I deserve a punch in the face. Next time I see an arachnophobic leg it from a spider I'll give them a slap for being so stupid.
 
Very good point(s) there, Jean-vic. Much proof that there's LOTS more to it than just "no big deal". It is a big deal. This is not to say that I don't chance it, and still ask. I do (and will). I'm just saying that it's a bigger deal than the author puts it out to be.
 

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