Don't feel like I can participate in this society ever

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Thrasymachus

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I remember fairs as a kid that had an array of goldfish bowls and you had to throw rings with the goal of capturing a bowl as a winning prize. Humans look at those goldfish as if they were privileged gods in comparison. The goldfish is totally trapped and its very life is dependent on barely caring humans who view it as a means to mere economic utility(those that run the booth) or novelty(the winners who just opted to play a game with no thought of the life of the creature in the bowl) instead of a living being that deserves kindness and dignity.

I feel like one of those goldfish. Most believe in the common societal myths about our imagined immense power over our lives, but I cannot believe in such fantasies. We are like the goldfish in that we are trapped in larger circumstances we cannot exercise much power over. Of course our lives are easier than theirs, but we merely get to suffer the "pain of a life made easy"(Metallica). I do not want to participate in a society where you can only be a producer/consumer of goods and services, but this is the only type of society out there. I do not want to live among people always chasing after better social status, the next distraction of the entertainment industries, the next high or other vice, but these are the only types our society can produce. But that is what I am forced to do and I cannot accept it. I cannot ever see myself happy just trapped in the bowl eating the flakes offered. Most people learn to be happy goldfish and adjust themselves to captivity but I have always refused to adjust to my peers, societal expectations, rampant consumerism and the worlds of school and work.

I have reacted to this by trying to participate as little in society as possible thus becoming a pathetic almost 30 yr. old still living with my mom and barely venturing outside. I am not happy about this, but I feel I would equally malcontent trying to get a well paying job, having a girlfriend and then a family. I do not see things ever getting better for me and I am past the age frame where you can say things will be better years from now. I cannot make friends, and I do not know how to find people who share my interests and outlook. Instead I am always trapped hanging with old acquaintances from junior high or high school whom I should move past, as they most often just want to drugs or watch movies.

I would like one day to have the courage to kill myself but I am even too much of a coward for that. I never wanted to, nor was I asked if I wanted to be born, to exist, my parents who did not really belong together as a couple anyway, just decided to have a kid, but I never consented. To me life is a hell to suffer in, rather than an opportunity. I do not understand how everyone else can cope so well living in such a fake, Malthusian society where the only thing that matters most is money. I feel so alone, like I am the only one grasping furtively for meaning from the meaningless. I do not how much longer I can continue like this, what I am doing is not so much living as it is being scared of dying. I am so tired of having no place in this world to be comfortable anywhere.
 
There's a lot of despair in this post. A sense of alienation as well.

If you got a job, don't you think it would give you some respect for yourself because it would offer you the opportunity to contribute to the household income instead of being a drain on it.

You sound as though you desperately need to develop a sense of self worth.

I don't like seeing you like this thrasy. *hug*
 
I am not sure what to say..... but hope you stick with it and continue to try to look for positives in life. As long as you have health, there is always hope.

*hug*
 
I have to say that I think the same way of society myself. But at the same time, I wish it didn't bother me as much as it does.

It's pretty **** distracting.
 
You don't have to adjust to society. There are other meaningful things to do in life, and which allow you to move beyond the confines if you're so inclined. It has its costs, but also its benefits, if for example, you decide to go help Amazonian indians with their daily health and sanitary issues.
 
Being aware of the system of our world is the greatest thing one can achieve. That however, does not mean you should be defeated by it. It means you have perspective and can build your own life around it. You are not the only one who sees the truth, with you there are many, many more and they are living their lives without giving over to this rediculous system.

How: "I have to have a deep sense of purpose and the will to fulfill it. I must resolve old unfinished business an eliminate toxic people and attitudes from my live. I have to work hard, have long periods of study (MIND) and concentrated efforts. I must withdraw on sever ties with people who are not truly aligned with my best (long term) intrests. Focus truly on my ambitions and what is important to me. Eliminate distractions and move forward."

I hope you (will) realize that being aware is a blessing and not a curse, because it is an opportunity to make something of this life and out of yourself, unlike those who are not aware and life meaningless lives.
 
I also wonder if its society at fault or the OP; the OP says that he's just hanging out with his friends to watch movies or do drugs(ugh). He claims that he does this because he finds societial expectations of finding a job, getting a girlfriend, and moving up to be mundane.

How much more mundane and pathetic, then, is it to live a life of distraction?

I don't care if your goal is to save the world or to destroy the world, but goddamn, get on it already. Its passion, and the labor for that passion, in and of itself that is beautiful. Its not society that's stopping you, its yourself.
 
I get ya...had well paying jobs.. Home, raised , children..etc..etc
I reformed or confromed to whatever the fresia it was society deem what a good moral person should be.
Bills after mounting bills...honeysuckle I purchase was out dates as soon as I purchased it brand new...Keeping up
with Jones and all that good honeysuckle..Yeah I even got an aquarium full of fucken fishes but my neigbour out did me.
A modern day slave with a fucken title.
Wooohooooo..Im a fucken manager. Im somebody.

anyway @ 44 and finding myself re starting my life again.
whats the piont of all of this honeysuckle???

My child is scream out for help and for me. Thats my purpoe for me at this junture. I must be strong for her...cast away whatever self pity and whatever society wants...aside. So god help me and god help her.
 
Stop thinking of it as a system. Just break it down:

1. You eat and sleep and use creams and what not, therefore, you consume value.
2. In return, you need to create value
3. Capitalism makes it so the value of what you do is (mostly) reflected in the money you make.

Stop giving a honeysuckle about everything else, but just make the above principle work. That should make you happier.
 
Thank you for sharing :) It's probably hard to see this if you keep yourself isolated but you would be surprised how many others in this world share the same viewpoints as you.

Teresa
 
We all have our ups and downs, we just have to do our best. I think your just very much upset now, happens a lot to me too.

"I have reacted to this by trying to participate as little in society as possible" - Maybe if you try to participate more in society, you can change your point of view? Best of luck.
 
@Sofiasmomi: I think my brother shares the most affinity to some of my views, but he is the type that has no strong personality or personal reality. He thus gets pulled into what everyone around him is doing: mainly drugs and drinking so he masks the problem much better. Overall though, he has faulty friends and will always call me to help him, give him rides home when he is too drunk, ultimately his friends are only there for entertainment and to use him.

@AK5: The more I participate, the less I want to participate.

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I read in a book* of interviews of various people in different job/career fields, the interviewer, Studs Terkels lamented his conclusion that most people have a job too small to encompass their soul. After examining several job interview books I feel I can distill the process with these words: to get a good career you have to prove to a company how you sacrificed yourself in the past for other companies, and how you plan to continue to degrade and humiliate yourself if only they will give you a new position. I have observed in my time working, that often when you think everything is going fine, that is when your boss most often castigates you. Conversely when things seem to go poorly, for unexpected reasons management will praise you. This creates a constant low intensity level of anxiety, you never know what could be praised or condemned until the words come from management, it seems purely random. At some jobs the manager will talk frequently to you or another co-worker socially, but at random times he feels like he needs to reign in control by admonishing you for doing talking too much, when often enough at other times he encourages it, by being the one chit-chating to you. I don't know how so many happily and readily accent to this funeral of your time, and reduction of your dignity that we call modern work. Worse, often enough in outside social situations, especially in the USA, what your profession is, becomes a frequent inquiry and locus of conversation so the horror often get to follow you outside.

Lately my mom and her boyfriend have been pressuring me to get a full time job as I have a crappy part-time Fedex job that doesn't pay much. Perhaps I would not mind a job if I could procure an independent livelihood, but I don't see that ever happening in my future. I don't see how I will ever have what it takes. It just seems to hopeless, I am sick of the anxiety that comes with barely making any money and dealing with everyone else's admonishments about it.

* Working: People Talk About What They Do All Day and How They Feel About What They Do
 
Thrasymachus said:
I remember fairs as a kid that had an array of goldfish bowls and you had to throw rings with the goal of capturing a bowl as a winning prize. Humans look at those goldfish as if they were privileged gods in comparison. The goldfish is totally trapped and its very life is dependent on barely caring humans who view it as a means to mere economic utility(those that run the booth) or novelty(the winners who just opted to play a game with no thought of the life of the creature in the bowl) instead of a living being that deserves kindness and dignity.

I feel like one of those goldfish. Most believe in the common societal myths about our imagined immense power over our lives, but I cannot believe in such fantasies. We are like the goldfish in that we are trapped in larger circumstances we cannot exercise much power over. Of course our lives are easier than theirs, but we merely get to suffer the "pain of a life made easy"(Metallica). I do not want to participate in a society where you can only be a producer/consumer of goods and services, but this is the only type of society out there. I do not want to live among people always chasing after better social status, the next distraction of the entertainment industries, the next high or other vice, but these are the only types our society can produce. But that is what I am forced to do and I cannot accept it. I cannot ever see myself happy just trapped in the bowl eating the flakes offered. Most people learn to be happy goldfish and adjust themselves to captivity but I have always refused to adjust to my peers, societal expectations, rampant consumerism and the worlds of school and work.

I have reacted to this by trying to participate as little in society as possible thus becoming a pathetic almost 30 yr. old still living with my mom and barely venturing outside. I am not happy about this, but I feel I would equally malcontent trying to get a well paying job, having a girlfriend and then a family. I do not see things ever getting better for me and I am past the age frame where you can say things will be better years from now. I cannot make friends, and I do not know how to find people who share my interests and outlook. Instead I am always trapped hanging with old acquaintances from junior high or high school whom I should move past, as they most often just want to drugs or watch movies.

I would like one day to have the courage to kill myself but I am even too much of a coward for that. I never wanted to, nor was I asked if I wanted to be born, to exist, my parents who did not really belong together as a couple anyway, just decided to have a kid, but I never consented. To me life is a hell to suffer in, rather than an opportunity. I do not understand how everyone else can cope so well living in such a fake, Malthusian society where the only thing that matters most is money. I feel so alone, like I am the only one grasping furtively for meaning from the meaningless. I do not how much longer I can continue like this, what I am doing is not so much living as it is being scared of dying. I am so tired of having no place in this world to be comfortable anywhere.

Well I too hate the system, I would also add that having fish in houses as pets is cruel too, they are trapped in a reduced space all their lives all for the entretainment of a few stupid humans, they are reduced to some kind of decoration.

... That being said, I recommend you try to find alternatives to revolt against the system and what you are supposed to be. The best way is definetly ART. Anything from painting to music, or writing maybe? I do all those things, I need them to express myself and it conforts me, they aree always there for me.

Also maybe if you are good you can try to make a living out of those things. I'm trying.
 
I understand what you mean, we have built our own captivity, a human zoo, filled with all these comforts, but all the comforts in the world are no subsitute for freedom.

I suppose the alternative is you build your own house in the woods and grow/hunt your own food.
 
I understand how difficult it is to feel trapped in a society such as this one. Particularly this society is what makes it so difficult, and in a sense, we are all trapped here. The only thing I noticed about your post that struck me as odd, was I do not understand how everyone else can cope so well living in such a fake, Malthusian society where the only thing that matters most is money. I'm convinced that this isn't true - everyone else does not have an easy time living in this society. A lot of them may be raised to live with fake grins, but once you learn to look past those, you'll see that they too are having a hard time.

On this planet, there is hardly such a thing as "an easy life". Everyone has his or her issues, problems, and things to deal with. The more I think about this, the more difficulty I'm having trying to understand how you could even come to the conclusion that there are apparently people here who are having an easy life. What made you think that ?
 
Vagrant Legacy said:
I understand how difficult it is to feel trapped in a society such as this one. Particularly this society is what makes it so difficult, and in a sense, we are all trapped here. The only thing I noticed about your post that struck me as odd, was I do not understand how everyone else can cope so well living in such a fake, Malthusian society where the only thing that matters most is money. I'm convinced that this isn't true - everyone else does not have an easy time living in this society. A lot of them may be raised to live with fake grins, but once you learn to look past those, you'll see that they too are having a hard time.

Because, ultimately, money /isn't/ what is the sole thing which matters, and this is coming from a sociopathic workaholic. It is what money represents which matters - a liquid form of value by which influence can be exerted, a base resource by which one could make one's dreams and desires come true. Who would not wish to work for one's dreams? Money is only a waypoint to that.

 
Thrasymachus said:
I do not want to participate in a society where you can only be a producer/consumer of goods and services, but this is the only type of society out there. I do not want to live among people always chasing after better social status, the next distraction of the entertainment industries, the next high or other vice, but these are the only types our society can produce. But that is what I am forced to do and I cannot accept it.
I think you're taking a very narrow-minded viewpoint on society here - you say you dont want to live around people only chasing after better social status/only caring about money. what about those who are only chasing after love/friendship (myself included). Its not fair at all to say that all people are as shallow as that.

Thrasymachus said:
I never wanted to, nor was I asked if I wanted to be born, to exist, my parents who did not really belong together as a couple anyway, just decided to have a kid, but I never consented. To me life is a hell to suffer in, rather than an opportunity.
I feel the same. I hate this life, and it just feels like its some sort of punishment for me. I agree its not fair that we dont get a choice about the matter.

Thrasymachus, I would say to you that if you want to find happiness in life you have to just try to enjoy it. fake lives are fake lives, but the emotions and feelings that come with it are what make you feel alive. so stop giving a honeysuckle whether your life is "fake" or not?

take care
 
I feel the same way and often i think like you beside the gold fish thing..im in the age 31
It is a crappy world out there and recently i start to hate stuff more and more. I dont go out much, like i should.

And i think it has crossed my mind sometimes to think about if i wasent born..but not to take my own life.

so you are not alone in that way

recently i got fired because im to confused and nervous to do my work properly, so i went to my doctor and spoke about that problem, he then recommend me to a place were i could speak with some kind of specialist and other "doctors" that is more acurate in stuff like how u feel..so my advise would be the same..try to tell your doctor how you feel, then he maybe can send you further to these specialist that i see.

Make sure it is free



 
Hi, guys (and girls)! I realize this is an old tread, but I want to write to you all anyway. I am about to leave, not going to tell where, it`s not important. I`ve been lonely a lot myself (and have been thinking a lot), I am also somewhat different from the majority of people, and can say this about all the world problems: It`s all because of laziness. Society is all about laziness. It is the norm to live in nature and just be oneself, by norm, I mean what is normal, what is expected of us humans. I am different because, I`m not lazy - I care enough about people not to be.

So, what is the root cause of laziness among most people? Like I just said, people don`t care enough about others. Why? I don`t know. Laziness? Could be. Or, just nature. Personally, I think it`s just nature. We still have a free will, but people don`t exercise it. Why? I think it`s stupidity. Why is it stupid not to care? Because when you care, you can achieve more, because you work together with others, not against them (like a society). So people are dumb. Not dumb in IQ, but in their future, being life-wise. Most people`s nature, is to be stupid, they don`t get how nice things could have been before it`s too late. I agree, kind people have an easier time doing more good things because they usually are smart, but it`s not an excuse for others.

Some say humans still have achieved a lot, but I disagree, when you work together and care, you achieve so much more joy, so humans have failed miserable all their time on this earth. At least, things were better in the old days when people were poor, because then you worked together and shared and did the best out of things. Going to the moon is nothing. Money is nothing. Religion is nothing. Fancy clothes and nice dishes is nothing.

Some stupid things in society:
1. Car. Why drive, when you can be with people all the time instead, together?
2. Music. Why listen to music, when you can sing and dance together? It`s something you can do everyday and it`s fun.
3. Money. Why use money, when you can hunt your own food and share from nature?
4. Technology. Who needs it, our bodies are self-suffient.
5. Buildings. They are all ugly and you can build one yourself in nature and have a fire by it and sit up late.
6. Eletricity. Who needs it, you can have a fire, see in the moonlight (much more romantic too).
7. A bed. Ever layed on the ground? On leafs and (whatelse)? It is much better for your back, so much more comfortable in the long run. And cleaner, a bed is always dirty. So is clothes.
8. School and kinder-garden. See 1, why not just be together all the time, young and old? What is the problem with that, really? You see, great dumbness, people rather spend time on jobs. And with jobs, you don`t have time for your children, so you send them off lol.
9. Job. You only waste time and earn money.
10. Travel. If you were satisfied with life, you wouldn`t travel.
11. Petrol. In some hundres years, the fun is over, what then? Live in nature again? See, huge dumbness, you alter the conditions of your life now, even though a petrol-based life isn`t natural, which makes you miserable. So in the future, your life will be richer (ops, you`re dead). You might be thinking that in the future, we will have substitues for petrol. But it`s not true, it`s free energy. Even if you use only solar power, it will alter the condtions on earth.
12. Computers and stuff. If you were truly satisfied with the people around you, you would rather be with them.
11. Animals in capitivity. Just a lack of empathy.


Greetings from Norway :)
 

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