Getting old

jdoe22 said:

Firstly, I'd like to say that I'm elated that I found this forum and that other people share my burden.

Let me introduce myself; I'm almost 30 years old and am currently going on a 9 year streak of being completely single, not even 1 date. Prior to that, a very short lived relationship (1 month) that I ended after finding out that she was still banging the ex-bf.

A little about myself; I am a very well rounded person, maybe a modern day renaissance man. I have graduate level education but have also framed houses, played blues guitar, worked on trucks, you name it.I am a very confident person--I've been told that I am very "intimidating". I command attention and have VERY many friends, often quite the hit at social outings. I have a very dark sarcastic sense of humor and can surely ALWAYS make everyone laugh with very little effort on my part.

I am relatively fit and well kept. I have manners. OTHER people have told me I am "good looking", I cannot comment on this myself.

I tend to be conservative and frown upon casual sex and promiscuity. I refuse to settle for such nonsense or those who take part of it. I am not religious, I'm a scientist. So with all this said... I have never been able to attract women. Every time in my life I've tried... I've either had phone calls not returned, been left on dance floors, etc.

So, I finally met someone at the university... who is an eerie shadow of myself. Remarkable similarities in personality and thought process... very exciting. She seems like a genuinely nice person. So here's where I get lost... I went out with her a week ago and spent the evening having a few drinks and getting to know each other. I'm not an expert at all with women, but she was not drunk and I picked up on things like dilated pupils, constant eye contact, flushed skin, playing with hair, etc. To me this means that I was attractive to her.

So, I invited her to a social event the following day, and when the time came she told me that she would not be able to make the event because of some other obligations and such... not a big deal and I told her it was OK. She said she would very much like to meet up with me again the following week and I said I would enjoy that as well.

So the following week came and here's where I think I made a horrible mistake. I passed her several times in hallways, where I nodded, said hello but she was occupied with other people so I didn't stop. I then went to a bar with my friends, and she was there , with her friends. She seemed busy and I thought that it might be rude to interrupt her, so I decided that if she wanted to talk to me, she saw me and could come over.

The next day I felt bad about the possible perception of this behavior, so I had found a nice jazz band that was playing and decided to call her and invite her out. She never answered... it's been a day, still no answer. I never left a voice mail, as I thought it would be inappropriate.

So, now how do I salvage this... I'm getting too old and sick of all this cat and mouse crap, but if she truly is not interested I'd hate to make her uncomfortable by badgering her about it. I guess this is really disappointing because these opportunities don't come around for me very often, I'd say well, in this case once in a life time so far... so I've gone from that confident commanding person on date #1 to a balled up nervous mess. What makes me even more uncomfortable is the searing experience that I've already lived, I'd hate to spend my entire 30's alone as I did my 20's.

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jjam said:

fickle, childish, dishonest...
I don't know, you tell me which one or combination comes to mind when you think of her actions, which include but are not limited to her words.

That may have been a mistake, but it should not have been a fatal one to someone who genuinely wanted to hang out the following week, as she expressed to you wielding the power of words. Leaving a message would have been good, but I doubt it was necessary. How prominent is caller ID/call history these days?

There are signs here of someone who plays the "string along" game, perhaps to raise a low self esteem. There's a good chance if you ask her some more (and, unfortunately, maybe some more after that), the two of you will finally hook up again. Part of me wants you to try again, and even again. The part of me who has been hurt by this kind of thing before wants you to let it go. Decent adults shouldn't behave this way.

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AFrozenSoul said:

She knows that you want her, there is no longer a chase so her interest has probably faded. I say you have done your part. Time to make her come to you. Otherwise move on.

So no offense but if I was a girl I would not date you. The way you describe yourself you sound like you give off a cold vibe. Women don't like men who seem cold. You need to seem more fun and happy. Right now you seem boring, desperate, and mean.

To be honest, this situation sounds like it was lost after she cancelled your second date. That is just part of dating though. Some women flake some women don't. One thing I think you need to do is create more sexual tension. I don't care that you don't feel the need to have lots of sex. You need to make her feel like you want to have sex with her. After all, her friends make her feel appreciated for who she is. She needs to know that you are attracted to her. As they say leave her wanting more. Take your short lived relationship for example. She was still sleeping with her ex because he built up that tension, and you did not.

It sounds to me like you need a new perspective. I think you need to change things up. I bet you have been doing roughly the same thing for the past 9 years. Change things up, break out of your safe zone. Most of all build your confidence. You say you are a scientist. Then stop looking at this as dating. Look at it as human mating. Look up materials on human mating patterns. There are plenty of studies on patterns seen in human mating. Don't be afraid to demystify human mating.

Trust me friend I have been where you have been. However, I made a commitment to change my success with women. It takes time, but most of all it requires you to change your views.

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jdoe22 said:

Thanks for the advice.... I don't think I come across as cold and boring but maybe I do. I can say that I've tried many routes... and I've tried many different angles, but it is very possible that even with this variation I'm still well within my own bounds, so to speak.

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jdoe22 said:

Thanks for the advice.... I don't think I come across as cold and boring but maybe I do. I can say that I've tried many routes... and I've tried many different angles, but it is very possible that even with this variation I'm still well within my own bounds, so to speak.

As far as sexual tension and the like, I will very much admit that I tend to keep a low profile and allow space as to not tread too heavily on someone. I personally don't like needy grabby people, as I believe one should not be desperate or "need" someone in their life to make it full. You should be a separate entity entirely happy in your own life on your own, and adding someone simply enriches what's there.

And... it's not that I don't want to have sex, I just hold it with a far greater level of morality than most. I will take your advice on studying human mating and see what I can come up with.

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AFrozenSoul said:

jdoe22 said:

Thanks for the advice.... I don't think I come across as cold and boring but maybe I do. I can say that I've tried many routes... and I've tried many different angles, but it is very possible that even with this variation I'm still well within my own bounds, so to speak.

As far as sexual tension and the like, I will very much admit that I tend to keep a low profile and allow space as to not tread too heavily on someone. I personally don't like needy grabby people, as I believe one should not be desperate or "need" someone in their life to make it full. You should be a separate entity entirely happy in your own life on your own, and adding someone simply enriches what's there.

And... it's not that I don't want to have sex, I just hold it with a far greater level of morality than most. I will take your advice on studying human mating and see what I can come up with.

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I meant you give off a negative vibe and women tend to dislike that.

There is plenty of other ways to build sexual tension. Clever innuendo is one way. Touch is the easiest way to do it. Remember that you have to make it known that you want to touch her. If she makes physical advances towards you and you don't respond in a positive way, she will lose attraction.

As for your views on sex. You walk a very narrow line. I suggest you learn how to hide those thoughts and beliefs. If a girl thinks you are judging her in a negative light. You might as well loan her a room to fresia another guy. You need to be careful with those views. They can be interpreted any number of ways. A woman can take a view like yours and interpret it as sex is not important to you. She can then use that view against you. Also remember the easiest way to build up an attachment is through repeated sexual encounters. So if the tension is there, but you are not. It will make it easier for her to jump in bed with another guy. Women can easily transfer attraction from one man to another.

If you want some suggestions on books I have read. PM me.

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jdoe22 said:

You know I've thought about what you've said and I started to read some empirical studies and articles on human mating and sexuality.

After careful consideration I've come to the conclusion that I'm not so sure anymore that any of this "cat and mouse" game playing to manipulate women into wanting you is necessary--in my case.

So this is the story; the studies I've looked at included data from something like 35 different countries across the world (including Africa, Asia, Mid East, Americas, Europe) and amazingly enough exhibited the same results independent of location.

We are human beings, the intelligent portion of our species has and employs the ability to rationalize and make responsible decisions. We see past things and do not respond directly to primal instinct like animals. And it is because of this that I don't trust these studies because I think for the most part they poll a data set of people who DO respond to primal instinct, the average "livestock" people who also frequently make irresponsible, ill-thought decisions and engage in frequent promiscuous behavior.

Now I don't mean to throw rocks here and offend... but I'm not interested in these type of women anyways. I always have wanted someone who is not "livestock" and is responsible and puts careful thought and consideration into making decisions. Someone who is not immediately turned on or off by physical appearance or awkward social behavior.

If you're not willing to look past that and give someone a chance to get to know them... then what good are you anyways? Why should I put in all this effort to GET you, when I have to continually struggle to make you appreciate me, then consistently worry about you leaving me? I'm not like that.

So... it would then seem that there are only two possibilities;
(1) I am completely unique and alone in the way that I am, and possibly am not human
(2) There are other people like me who are female and single

So... why change what I'm doing? If a girl doesn't like ME, then it's simply that cut and dry and any attempts to change that feeling will only be temporary.

Oh... and as far as touch goes. I do not touch women. I was raised to not touch women, I find it morally wrong to put your hands on someone unless they specifically indicate that it is OK--i.e. they kiss you, or you're dancing. If a woman cannot appreciate the fact that I respect them enough to not grab on them like a piece of meat (like the "livestock"), then she's the wrong type.

I look forward to your feedback.

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Dionysianpoet said:

(But women always seem to be critical of men and hypervigilent about whether men are simply viewing them as a sex object or genuinely interested in them.)

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