Question about attraction and sex

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ThePsychologist

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Some basic info: I am 23, GF is 23. We met each other in group therapy and have been happy pretty much most of the way. We both have some emotional issues and we support each other in this way which is basicly one of the biggest strengths in our relationship. This is my first relationship, for her it's her 2nd.

But back to the topic at hand.

This one is about sex. Well, perhaps it's core is not about sex, it's perhaps more about the individual barriers me and my GF face.

I'm not really sure where to begin, so I will just start somewhere, but be prepared. This will be a long one.

My girlfriend and I are still together, on our 9 month streak soon. Mentally we still have a great relationship. But physically, not so great. The last 4 weeks we have had no real sex. We tried to have it, but she stops me and decides to do something else.

This is how it's been for most of the time the past months. There are times where she is horny as fresia, and other times it's very hard to get her into a relaxed state for some great physical time. Now, this is due to a lot of things. I shall start with myself:

---

My problem is, I cannot let go. I have emotional blockage issues. I have been making improvements in the past few weeks (for example, this last week I was able to finally become incredibly angry at my father and showed him who's boss. This is a first for me). I see it as an emotional wall. Eventhough I am the one who is almost horny all the time when I'm with her, and when I can get my GF to the point where she wants to have sex with me, I still hold back tremendously. I just don't really do what I want to do. I even think that I don't really know what I want to do when I get up to that certain point. It feels very frustrating.

I find this a bit odd. In my mind I am a very sexual person, but I don't think I really know how to express this sexual energy inside of me. It also does not help that, because we don't have much sex in our relationship (I think we have had sex about 9 times in our 9 month relationship), and that she was the one who made the virgin inside of me go away, that I in general don't have a lot of experience. Which is true. I read books about it, but ofcourse know that that does not have as much effect as experience would've.

And then, because of the small amount of sex we have, I become frustrated. Whenever I try to initiate, and fail, I afterwards withdraw within myself and feel rejected and terrbily sad and confused. She then asks me "Are you OK?" - whenever she does that, I just don't know how to answer so I just say that I'm tired, eventhough we both know why it is I am feeling very sad after what just had happened. Does not do wonders to my self esteme.

Yes, I do not have much self-confidence in bed. This is probably one the main reasons why it's so hard to have sex for me and my GF. She picks up on my signals and decides to shut down.

----

Now about my girlfriend. As I said, we talked about our sexlife the past couple of days, and this is a summary of about what she came up with (with some additional notes from me):

A few days ago, we were both in the kitchen making an incredibly difficult pie. But during the process we have as much fun as possible. Making jokes, feeding each other scraps of pie ingredients, kissing, hugging, making sexual gestures towards each other. I see this as foreplay. But she does not. She just sees it as having fun and she told me that at no point during our pie making session, she was horny or thinking in a sexual way. This is a problem that mostly resides within herself. With her previous boyfriend, when she was still 16-18, they had sex a lot, but that's not because my GF was horny all the time, it's because she wanted to please her ex who was horny all the time, being afraid he would leave her (which he did eventually). So she did not enjoy sex that much, she saw it more as a chore. That relationship with her Ex was more about Sex. They did not have an emotional connection (I'm suprised it even lasted for 2 years). Now she does get this emotional connection with me (and I must say, a very good one at that for us both). But now for her (and for me) the physical part is missing. I am everything her previous ex was not and vice versa, which I think is an intresting fact.

So, she hasn't been really horny, even with her previous ex. She also does not mastrubate a lot. Perhaps 2x a month (I'm guessing, but she indicated something like this).

Right now we talked about her sexual activeness. Now I would like to talk about how it goes down when we actually do it and what is going through her head (she also explained this to me):

Whenever we lay in bed, there is this uncomfortable sense that one of us has to start, but we are both a bit scared to initiate, afraid to act on our feelings. We both sense this from each other. This is a turn off because she wants things to be spontaneous (I guess I do too).

But when we do cross that barrier (perhaps allthough forcefully), she get's wet, I get hard, we have intercourse. When this happends, she usually feels like this is a chore already, but not always. While we are doing it, she get's distracted easily. If for example, an police car with sirens on would ride by our house, she would allow herself to get distracted and think about what might is happening outside.
Or when she looks me in the eye, she searches for meaning, for approval. She want's to know if I am having a good time or not. She needs this approval from me before she can truly let go. But because of her sense of negativity around herself, it does not really matter what I think, because she would turn that message that she sees in my eyes into something negative about her, regardless what I am truly thinking. So this is also a turn off for her.
And another thing that blocks her, is her self image about her body. She thinks she is ugly and fat, while she is in fact very beautifull and has a perfect body. This is something she went to therapy for.

Her relationship with her father isn't great. He never paid her much attention in the day's she was depressed. He could not cope because he did not understand. Her family also does not really hug with each other, not much physical contact (non-sexual I mean ofcourse). I read in a study that that would hinder her sexuality aswell. In my family, I hug with my brother and mother a lot (it actually releases tension somehow). But when I hug my girlfriend, it feels somehow awkward and unfullfilled. She does not put much meaning into it. The same things for kisses, whenever we kiss for a long time, it almost looks like she is bored, she opens her eyes and rolls around with it, looking at things in the room that could possibly distract her, not putting effort into her kiss. I have no idea what it means, but I usually feel very bad whever she does that (allthough I'm getting used to it). It's as if she's not taking my kisses seriously, not taking my attempts at intimacy seriously. Getting kind of sick of that tbh.

One mor thing I would like to add, when I asked her if she was sexually attracted to me, she said: no. But that it differs somehow from time to time. She explained that she sees it as the following: That she is attracted to me in general (aka, she thinks I'm good looking). She has a great emotional connection with me, but she is not really sexually attracted to me. Aka, she is in love with me but not really in a sexual way.

----

Now I want to adress some conclusions we both got out of this conversation we had in the past days:

She wants me to be confident. She wants me to act like a man, not an insecure wimp. She misses that part inside of me. She cannot really be horny when I am not there to lead her in this way.

The problem is, is that since she is my first sexual partner ever, and because we both really can't hit it off, I cannot gain much experience this way. In fact, I become more insecure about myself as time goes by it seems (this is because of her rejections and my faulty self-esteme, my holes in my ego).

Me and my girlfriend need to talk more about sex. She is pretty much a closed book regarding sex. She does not feel comfortable when talking about the things that she would like to do or receive. And I simply don't really know what I want from her. I don't communicate enough when she actually does things I like, and vice versa. We just have no sexual communication, we don't know how to press each other's buttons. But we promised that we will work on this, to try to open up to each other and tell what we like, allthough I'm still not really sure how we should go on about this exactly.

---

If it was up to me, we would have sex 3x a day. But I know that's unrealistic and I am now starting to slowly accept the situation we are now in (so that I don't get mad from the inside whenever sex does not happen). I love her and she loves me. The fact that we are still together and are still going strong, even without decent sex, tells me that we have a good relationship that can survive a lot of problems. We can both talk about what really goes on in our heads and we both accept those thoughts from each other and do so in a mature manner. This really is the strength of our relationship. We are both troubled and in trouble and we both support each other. So I only think it only can go stronger from here on out. If we only could get our sexual life in order, I think it would work that much more in our favor. I would feel so much more fullfilled and happy, more focused, less distracted. This is what I want to achieve.

So my question to you guys:

This whole story is not simply about "How can I have more sex with my GF?", it's about, how can I, her, we, transcend from our problems (that I described above), rise above it, conquer it and be better as a person\couple because of it.

Thanks in advance!
 
Perhaps consider leaving her now before you get more attached and it becomes more difficult or look keep her as a gf FOR NOW, but who you will want to exchange at the first opportunity. If you are not sexually compatible, you are not compatible at all to a large extent.

Your long post, which I could not bother to read in its entirety had this false notion of agency, that you could change her. Ultimately most people have to be already susceptible to a change at a certain point in their life and you can perhaps be the catalyst to make that happen, but that rarely happens. In those 9 months if she was ready for this change you want of more frequent sex, it would have happened, there is little chance of you being a catalyst for it now. Either you will have to cope with her sexual distance for years to come, life or leave her. In your head you want utopia, perfection, to be able to change other people, but in reality that is not to be had.
 
ThePsychologist said:
My problem is, I cannot let go.

No...your problem is you think you can't let go.



ThePsychologist said:
I find this a bit odd. In my mind I am a very sexual person, but I don't think I really know how to express this sexual energy inside of me. It also does not help that, because we don't have much sex in our relationship (I think we have had sex about 9 times in our 9 month relationship), and that she was the one who made the virgin inside of me go away, that I in general don't have a lot of experience. Which is true. I read books about it, but ofcourse know that that does not have as much effect as experience would've.


The only way to gain experience is to experience something. You both need to get 100% comfortable talking about the subject in a serious, playful and even dirty way. Then you can both suggest improvements or ideas without feeling conflicted or ashamed.




ThePsychologist said:
And then, because of the small amount of sex we have, I become frustrated. Whenever I try to initiate, and fail, I afterwards withdraw within myself and feel rejected and terrbily sad and confused. She then asks me "Are you OK?" - whenever she does that, I just don't know how to answer so I just say that I'm tired, eventhough we both know why it is I am feeling very sad after what just had happened. Does not do wonders to my self esteem*.


If you both know then why not talk about? We are all conditioned thanks to our parents and society to think that sex is some taboo process that has to be done in a traditional manner. You need to find out what you're each expecting of each other and come to a compromise.




ThePsychologist said:
Yes, I do not have much self-confidence in bed. This is probably one the main reasons why it's so hard to have sex for me and my GF. She picks up on my signals and decides to shut down.




ThePsychologist said:
I see this as foreplay. But she does not. She just sees it as having fun and she told me that at no point during our pie making session, she was horny or thinking in a sexual way.


Men and women perceive things very differently when it comes to romance or sex. You obviously need to learn her signals so you can better tell when you try and start intercourse or when to back off.



ThePsychologist said:
So, she hasn't been really horny, even with her previous ex. She also does not mastrubate a lot. Perhaps 2x a month (I'm guessing, but she indicated something like this).




ThePsychologist said:
Whenever we lay in bed, there is this uncomfortable sense that one of us has to start, but we are both a bit scared to initiate, afraid to act on our feelings. We both sense this from each other. This is a turn off because she wants things to be spontaneous (I guess I do too).


You can't both expect spontaneity. One of your is going to have to be spontaneous every once in a while. Try employing some pretty basic and safe toys like 'sex dice' or 'coupons', it would also help lighten the mood and make each of you more comfortable.




ThePsychologist said:
But when we do cross that barrier (perhaps allthough forcefully), she get's wet, I get hard, we have intercourse. When this happends, she usually feels like this is a chore already, but not always. While we are doing it, she get's distracted easily. If for example, an police car with sirens on would ride by our house, she would allow herself to get distracted and think about what might is happening outside.
Or when she looks me in the eye, she searches for meaning, for approval. She want's to know if I am having a good time or not. She needs this approval from me before she can truly let go. But because of her sense of negativity around herself, it does not really matter what I think, because she would turn that message that she sees in my eyes into something negative about her, regardless what I am truly thinking. So this is also a turn off for her.

Treat her. Just her. Focus on making her happy, then yourself. You may have to leave a comfort zone or try something new but it must be done to not only increase her enjoyment but your confidence.


ThePsychologist said:
One mor thing I would like to add, when I asked her if she was sexually attracted to me, she said: no. But that it differs somehow from time to time. She explained that she sees it as the following: That she is attracted to me in general (aka, she thinks I'm good looking). She has a great emotional connection with me, but she is not really sexually attracted to me. Aka, she is in love with me but not really in a sexual way.
[/quote]



Did you ask what you could do to become more sexually attractive?




ThePsychologist said:
Now I want to adress some conclusions we both got out of this conversation we had in the past days:

She wants me to be confident. She wants me to act like a man, not an insecure wimp. She misses that part inside of me. She cannot really be horny when I am not there to lead her in this way.

The problem is, is that since she is my first sexual partner ever, and because we both really can't hit it off, I cannot gain much experience this way. In fact, I become more insecure about myself as time goes by it seems (this is because of her rejections and my faulty self-esteme, my holes in my ego).

Me and my girlfriend need to talk more about sex. She is pretty much a closed book regarding sex. She does not feel comfortable when talking about the things that she would like to do or receive. And I simply don't really know what I want from her. I don't communicate enough when she actually does things I like, and vice versa. We just have no sexual communication, we don't know how to press each other's buttons. But we promised that we will work on this, to try to open up to each other and tell what we like, allthough I'm still not really sure how we should go on about this exactly.



I think I've addressed most everything here in my previous statements. These are all barriers that need to be broken and should not just be left as is in my opinion.




ThePsychologist said:
If it was up to me, we would have sex 3x a day. But I know that's unrealistic and I am now starting to slowly accept the situation we are now in (so that I don't get mad from the inside whenever sex does not happen). I love her and she loves me. The fact that we are still together and are still going strong, even without decent sex, tells me that we have a good relationship that can survive a lot of problems. We can both talk about what really goes on in our heads and we both accept those thoughts from each other and do so in a mature manner. This really is the strength of our relationship. We are both troubled and in trouble and we both support each other. So I only think it only can go stronger from here on out. If we only could get our sexual life in order, I think it would work that much more in our favor. I would feel so much more fullfilled and happy, more focused, less distracted. This is what I want to achieve.

So my question to you guys:

This whole story is not simply about "How can I have more sex with my GF?", it's about, how can I, her, we, transcend from our problems (that I described above), rise above it, conquer it and be better as a person\couple because of it.

Thanks in advance!


Sex is a large part of any successful relationship as far as I'm concerned. It's not the only things but it's an important one. Hopefully I've been of some help.



Best of luck.


Thrasymachus said:
Perhaps consider leaving her now before you get more attached and it becomes more difficult or look keep her as a gf FOR NOW, but who you will want to exchange at the first opportunity. If you are not sexually compatible, you are not compatible at all to a large extent.

Your long post, which I could not bother to read in its entirety had this false notion of agency, that you could change her. Ultimately most people have to be already susceptible to a change at a certain point in their life and you can perhaps be the catalyst to make that happen, but that rarely happens. In those 9 months if she ready for that change you wanted, it would have happened, there is little chance of you being a catalyst for it now. Either you will have to cope with her sexual distance for years to come, life or leave her. In your head you want utopia, perfection, to be able to change other people, but in reality that is not to be had.



You couldn't be bothered to read it all? Then why comment? You're ignorance is astounding sometimes. You would give him advice without fully understanding the situation. That fact alone has proven your worth.
 
Funkybuddha, your ignorance is astounding almost all the time. Just because some anonymous nome-de-plum decides to write 3-4 solid pages of largely unnecessary ancillary details, and expects others he does not know to read it all, does not oblige everyone to read it. Good job with helping him with the illusion that they can "transcend [their] problems ... and be better as a ... couple". If he could have changed this woman he would have likely did it months ago, instead of asking us to reinforce a predestined conclusion of his.

We are not Harry Potter and the sorcerer's apprentice(didn't see that movie or read that pulp, crap series of books, either...)! What kind of power do you think our possible advice could have? It seems you think you are Harry fighting ?Hogwarts?(just wanted to write that, don't really know who he fights), and that you can magically help him with his predetermined affair, by a certain arrogance of agency attached to what you write.
 
I'm sorry bro, but there's no 'we' for her. First relationships are like that, "aw, she's special", "we'd overcome anything", "we have mutual emotional connection". Forget that, you're both too young to rely on platonic love.

Do you know what she's thinking about the whole thing? "I do not want him." She doesn't want you, can you realise how potentially destructive is that? She doesn't feel like she has any problems with sexuality, only you, she doesn't want to fresia you that's all. She can be horny, capable of getting wet, have sexual fantasies (but you're not a part of them, that's why she's not sharing). You said she masturbates at least twice monthly, thinking about what, who? Anything but you and I doubt outside sounds can distract her from that. Your 'emotional connection' counts for nothing, it's almost non-existent, faint, amorphous, fleeting, try to define it. Can you? Memories of sweet moments, words spoken? Oh please.. you're not a girl, she is, your role is to be a man. Conversations you have, sharing thoughts with each other? It's called communication. Most people do it easily on a daily basis without being lovers.

What if she finds someone who is actually experienced and knows what to do in bed, someone she'd want? Can your 'emotional connection' contain her then? Chances are, she already wants someone other than you when she masturbates, have to imagine something when you do that, imagination, you know how it works?

Hate to say it but you have three options here.

1. Bitterly cry head-on-knees in shower tub after each painfully failed sex attempt.

2. Say buh-bye! to her in your head. To not feel betrayed later.

3. Somehow become a man, not genderless cattle, surprise her. Magically man the fresia up, don't let your relationship linger in this state for long. I sincerely hope that you won't have to post depressing thread about ruined life later.

Take care of yourself bro. Don't feel bad about me saying sad honeysuckle here, it wasn't my intent to offend you or your girl. If you want any advice/help I can provide, just ask.

(hint: option 2 is the best)
 
All else aside, it does look like shes just not attracted to you that way. at least as far as i can tell from the post.
 
It sounds like both of you are really adamant with your dispositions towards each other. Honestly, I cannot see how a relationship like this could progress with so many sealed doors. I guess you could see it as an important learning experience, and take what you have learned when you decide to move on.
 
Sounds to me like you need to end this relationship. She sees sex as a chore, you do not. A view like that is very difficult to change. Stand firm and resolute. Explain to her your needs and expectations. If she does not like them then she can go find some other loser who does.

Another route to go would be to start witholding certian activites from her. For instance basic PDA. Stop kissing her or holding her hand or cuddling with her. When she confronts you, simply say you don't feel like a boyfriend. Those kinds of actions are reserved for a girlfriend.

A third option would be get her approval for you, and you alone, to get your sexual fill elsewhere. I say you and you alone, because she doesn't like sex so she has no need to look for external sources of sex or love.

She sounds like a boring empty girl.
 
Talk to her. Explain that you really love her and you want to do it with her. If she still doesn't, tell her it's over. If she loves you, she'll do it and like it.
 

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