Is Rap Real Music?

I've had this conversation before with people in person, but its inspired by a post by Lonely in BC in the "World Without Music" Thread. Rap music tends to be an awfully polarizing artform. There are people out there that don't even consider it music for one reason or another. I completely disagree myself, and I would like to open up a healthy discussion back and forth with anyone with an opinion.

I feel like we have a lot of people on this board that are passionate one way or another about music. I want your input, if you have any. Either way I'll say it right now, I love rap music (I'm listening to it as I type this opening post), but I promise to be objective.

What say you?

Who says what is music and what isn't?

I know a deaf person who was given very low bass tone music that they could "hear" and it made them the happiest person in the world. That was music to them.

Music, if it moves you, that's what matters.

I think that rap is music. Whether rap music is "good" or "bad" is up to the listener, but in my opinion it makes little sense to denounce an entire genre of music. Most rap is bad, imo, but I also think that most music is bad in general. If you want the real fruits of any genre, you have to dig, and I think that's the case with rap. There are so many songs about butt cheeks and violence out there being labeled "rap" that even rappers are saying the genre is dead. But that doesn't mean there can't be soulful rap, intelligent rap, lyrics that took more than a rhyming dictionary to write.

To each their own RJLJD. I really can't stand rap, gives me an instant headache and after awhile I end up booting the radio it's playing on (I've punted 3 DeWalt job site radios in the last 10 years- the kids that used to work for me used to get a "kick" out of watching those things explode into dozens of pieces). Imagine how bad it would have been if I had an actual anger control issue!

Since you mentioned objectivity, I do have a perspective to draw from. When I was a teen way back in the dark ages I remember my father running into the house like the hounds of hell were on his heels to yank my couple of hours old Kiss "Destroyer" album off the turntable and throw it at me. Hard. As in cuts to the body broken record hard. The old man was kind of partial to Kenny Rogers, Frank Mills, Roy Orbison, etc., so my devil music was enough to make him do a Linda Blair (the girl in "The Exorcist" who's head turned completely around for those who don't know).

Guess what goes around comes around.

Soooooo grateful my kid likes rock. That'll likely backfire on me one day though.

Lonely in BC said:

To each their own RJLJD. I really can't stand rap, gives me an instant headache and after awhile I end up booting the radio it's playing on (I've punted 3 DeWalt job site radios in the last 10 years- the kids that used to work for me used to get a "kick" out of watching those things explode into dozens of pieces). Imagine how bad it would have been if I had an actual anger control issue!

Since you mentioned objectivity, I do have a perspective to draw from. When I was a teen way back in the dark ages I remember my father running into the house like the hounds of hell were on his heels to yank my couple of hours old Kiss "Destroyer" album off the turntable and throw it at me. Hard. As in cuts to the body broken record hard. The old man was kind of partial to Kenny Rogers, Frank Mills, Roy Orbison, etc., so my devil music was enough to make him do a Linda Blair (the girl in "The Exorcist" who's head turned completely around for those who don't know).

Guess what goes around comes around.

Soooooo grateful my kid likes rock. That'll likely backfire on me one day though.

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Your old man was an *******. You don't throw honeysuckle at someone that could hurt them.

I prefer to throw empty tissue boxes and milk caps at people when i'm mad.

I prefer rock, punk and many other styles before rap. I do like a few songs. Specially old Eminem stuff.

I like rap's lyrics. They are funny.

And sometimes it can be mixed with rock and it sounds great. They did that a lot back in the new metal era.

Like everything there is good and bad... but no, is not as good as rock, no freaking way.

Here's a song by the Black Eyed Peas called - Where is the Love (it's a very positive message) and i've remember it for years

[youtube]24ZbzzIhS-w[/youtube]

i like eminem, this song in particular stands out of his:

[youtube]P4Uv_4jGgAM[/youtube]

, i like Immortal Technique.

This song will forever stick in my head and haunt me by Immortal Technique (warning, it's graphic):

[youtube]k8yKTuvRmPE[/youtube]

I like this song by linkin park with rap in it. The lyrics have stuck in my head for years and years:

[youtube]5AWbgkRpYwc[/youtube]

I hate rap "music" so I'll say no it's not "real" music. But music is whatever it is to each person, love it or hate it, we all have our own tastes.

I will say that I usually don't like rap, so those songs I just posted, people who don't like rap or usually don't like it should listen to what i've posted.

its a poem with beat....

I live in the RAP capital ...Atlanta.
....And all I am going to say is, Rap is definitely not what it used to be.

lots of people going with the idea that they don't really like it, but aren't willing to straight out not call it an artform or a form of music. i respect that. i am curious as to why people don't like it. i get that its merely not many people's cup of tea, and that's cool. i'm just curious i guess.

SophiaGrace said:

Lonely in BC said:

To each their own RJLJD. I really can't stand rap, gives me an instant headache and after awhile I end up booting the radio it's playing on (I've punted 3 DeWalt job site radios in the last 10 years- the kids that used to work for me used to get a "kick" out of watching those things explode into dozens of pieces). Imagine how bad it would have been if I had an actual anger control issue!

Since you mentioned objectivity, I do have a perspective to draw from. When I was a teen way back in the dark ages I remember my father running into the house like the hounds of hell were on his heels to yank my couple of hours old Kiss "Destroyer" album off the turntable and throw it at me. Hard. As in cuts to the body broken record hard. The old man was kind of partial to Kenny Rogers, Frank Mills, Roy Orbison, etc., so my devil music was enough to make him do a Linda Blair (the girl in "The Exorcist" who's head turned completely around for those who don't know).

Guess what goes around comes around.

Soooooo grateful my kid likes rock. That'll likely backfire on me one day though.

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Your old man was an *******. You don't throw honeysuckle at someone that could hurt them.

I prefer to throw empty tissue boxes and milk caps at people when i'm mad.

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yeah, to throw the albums at you, that's idiotic to say the least. i'm not lucky enough to not live in an opinioned household, but i just keep my music quiet, in my headphones, or only play it aloud when no one is home, and there is no problem. the actual presence of it in the house isn't an issue. i would be disappointed for you to continue the same circular path of music closemindedness though.

Mouse said:

I can't stand Rap. This style of music "shouts" at me rather than music that I prefer which "talks to". I like music that lifts my spirit, calms my inner being or encourages contemplation.

I was raised by a father whose love for music spanned many genres, but even he would have spat bile on hearing Eminem's grating voice, for example. Dad's memory lives on in my heart in the fabulous music collection he left us. My brother estimates some 5,000 vinyl LPs and that's discounting CDs. Except there would not be one single Rap record in the vast musical library we keep. If it there such a CD it would undoubtedly be coffee stained.

Music is evocative; we cannot change who we are or how we feel. One cannot say this type of music or, that is the best. If we hate a particular track, all we have to do is switch it off. All of us are as different as chalk is from cheese, even mouse cheese.

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fair enough. i don't like the idea of discounting an entire genre of music or art as not good enough for a person. i'm much more of the mindset of whomever said it (i apologize i forgot who it was) that said ALL music has its good and bad and you have to dig a little for the good. i think that's more consistent with the truth than anything. i'll be the first to say there is some straight trash rap music out there. there's some very inventive, intelligent, moving, and inspirational music as well though. its probably the same way with other music.

further, i find it funny that you don't like the delivery of rap music. that's part of what interests me in rap. technically, anyone can contribute. you don't need to be a good singer to rap. rap is more speech than singing, anyone can try it. anyone can lay a verse, and therefore let themselves be heard through music in a personal manner. that's can't be said about other genres. even with that said, i understand that it grates on you. i've heard other people say similar about "white guys moaning over guitars" (not me) so i understand it goes both ways.

Sci-Fi said:

I hate rap "music" so I'll say no it's not "real" music. But music is whatever it is to each person, love it or hate it, we all have our own tastes.

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once again, i wouldn't go as far as to say it isn't real music. that you don't like it is fine, but to lump an entire genre in a box is foolish.

Syber Tiger said:

its a poem with beat....

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yes, but isn't all songwriting to an extent? and i encourage you to try to put together a verse like that, a quality one. its doable, but its a lot more difficult than you may think.

Nolife Princess said:

I live in the RAP capital ...Atlanta.
....And all I am going to say is, Rap is definitely not what it used to be.

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A very true statement, and I would go further to say rap was better when Atlanta WASN'T the unofficial capital of rap (i think that distinction is slowly going away, but there was a time rappers could get a deal rolling out of bed just because they were from ATL).
rap's renaissance as we know it truly was in the mid 90s before the deaths of TuPac and Notorious BIG, at the same time, there is still some very quality music being made today, both in the mainstream and out of the mainstream.

There's probably only one or two rap songs that I can enjoy, its just not my thing. Music is an enormous part of my life, rather than just listening to music I have to feel connected to it on some emotional or even psychic level. Rap just doesn't evoke any feeling in me so I decide to disregard it. I think its stupid to not recognize it as music though. I mean, who's to decide what is and isn't? At the same time, I think its stupid to get upset when someone says its not "real music", I mean who cares. Its really that simple. The kind of stuff that I'm really into is something that a vast majority of people would consider even less worthy of being called music than rap. Doesn't bother me because 1) I connect with it on a personal level; and 2) Their hatred of my preferred genre makes it all the more satisfying.

Rap to me tends to sound all the same. :/ So to find a rap song that's distinctive and touches me at the same time is a rare thing. Oftentimes I hear rap lyrics and it means nothing to me (even though i can understand the lyrics, or it just doesnt stick in my head like other music does), or it just blends into sameness, much like classical music does to me (although classical has a calming influence on me so i mainly listen to it when i am tired), and Jazz (which i also listen to when tired).

Does this count as rap? (skip to :17)

[youtube]e-0fZa5KprY&feature=related[/youtube]

because its distinctive to me and i remember the lyrics and i think it might've gotten stuck in my head as well.



I also have trouble with metal music because i can't understand what they're screaming about. I might like it if i took the time to study the lyrics and relistened to the song over and over again until i understood what they are saying (which would take a lot of time and effort which I have not expended). Metal music also sounds all the same to me.



Right now I am watching the lyrics to this song trying to remember the lyrics to see if i even LIKE this song and it's not even metal or rap. (my hearing imparement might cause me some impediments with music):

[youtube]M3nv2nciHtQ&feature=fvst[/youtube]

Any collection of noise massed together by a sentient being in an attempt to stimulate some kind of emotional reaction is music.

So yes, I'd say rap is music.

However, I'd say the quality of rap varies enormously. I really can't stand all these posing artists who just go on and on and on about how many "hoes" they have, or how much they love dealing drugs to kids or whatever.

When rap approaches a subject with maturity above that of the generic male power fantasy crap, I'd say it's as valid a medium as anything else.

RJLJD said:

fair enough. i don't like the idea of discounting an entire genre of music or art as not good enough for a person. i'm much more of the mindset of whomever said it (i apologize i forgot who it was) that said ALL music has its good and bad and you have to dig a little for the good. i think that's more consistent with the truth than anything. i'll be the first to say there is some straight trash rap music out there. there's some very inventive, intelligent, moving, and inspirational music as well though. its probably the same way with other music.

further, i find it funny that you don't like the delivery of rap music. that's part of what interests me in rap. technically, anyone can contribute. you don't need to be a good singer to rap. rap is more speech than singing, anyone can try it. anyone can lay a verse, and therefore let themselves be heard through music in a personal manner. that's can't be said about other genres. even with that said, i understand that it grates on you. i've heard other people say similar about "white guys moaning over guitars" (not me) so i understand it goes both ways.

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There is nothing 'funny' about my disliking the delivery of rap music. From a very young age I was raised on Classical and Baroque and adored it. Once when I entered adolescence did my interest turn to pop, then the rest. You either like what you hear or not. I am sure you feel Rap is inventive, intelligent, moving, and inspirational music. Just not for me, because I am different.

To reiterate, I said music is evocative; we cannot change who we are or how we feel. Whereas you and other Rap lovers like the genre, others like me shun it because my chosen lifestyle makes me feel more comfortable with the music of choice. There again, I don't suppose it would be difficult for me to emulate a rap artist by donning a beanie hat, put on a dour expression and sing monotone into a microphone. But I would rather dance a little jig in my garden to the sound of Tom Petty because I would feel miles better for it.

Now, if you don't mind I'm going to pour myself a gin and tonic, and listen to Ed Alleyne-Johnson - Oxford Suite, 1st Movement

Cheers!

This is my friend's response to this thread:

Friend: (12:17:30 PM) I believe rap is music.
Friend: (12:17:46 PM) I listened to it more when I was younger.
Me: (12:17:52 PM) oh right you told me that
Me: (12:17:52 PM)
Friend: (12:18:02 PM) But more recently, I valued it less.
Me: (12:18:06 PM) why?
Friend: (12:18:31 PM) Because of the heavy use of samples and synth in much of the rap genre.
Friend: (12:19:17 PM) And often times the vocals don't seem "musical" but more like spoken word.
Friend: (12:19:35 PM) But there are still rap songs that I like.

Wow, some really valid stuff here that's in favor of rap vs. not favoring it. Sophia Grace did post a couple of songs that had a rap quality to them that I actually do enjoy listening to so maybe it's less black and white than I think- a gray area? Still having issues with attributing Linkin Park to having a "rap" song but ........

I think the answer given by TheSolitaryMan is spot on- I suspect that a lot of of my dislike for rap is due to the "posers" sending out pretty unhealthy messages (I know there is some rock like that as well)- at the end of the day anything that gives me a headache like the majority of the rap I've heard does isn't something I need in my life.

You started a really good thread RJLJD- well done.