24 years old and never had a girlfriend

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DiscoSpider

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Hi. First time poster and er... new member I suppose. :p

I've been reading a lot of the threads on this forum and it's shown me that... the problem I have is a lot more common than I think. At felt like I was the only one but... wow how very wrong I am.

I'm twenty four years old and I've never had a girlfriend or an intimate relationship of any kind (not even a kiss, ha ha). Now, this is going to sound very dodgy but... I believe that saying "the longer you wait, the harder it gets" is absolutely true, does anyone else agree?

A lot of my friends have told me that I have/had "ugly duckling syndrome". When I was in high school, I was very overweight and unfit, did not have many friends and was bullied... a lot. A few years after high school though, I took up martial arts and self defense as a hobby and sport and ended up losing so much weight, getting very fit and completely changing how I look. It's a very surreal and kinda "wtf" feeling when people, even your own friends, start noticing you in a different light.

What's funny is back when I was younger (fat, unfit etc), if I told someone "I've never had a girlfriend" they would often respond "Yeah fair enough" or "I see", as if completely unsurprised. Nowadays if someone hears that I haven't had a girlfriend before, it's like blasphemy! They usually freak out.

I think my problem is... despite looking completely different, on the inside I am still the same fat, shy and insecure kid I was once. I have a lot of trouble talking to girls. Well... talking to girls (as a friend/individual) is easy, but talking to someone who I am attracted to and have feelings for, that's so hard! Especially when I try to express myself and tell them how I feel. I also often get "friend zoned"... the only girls who have expressed themselves toward me are usually girls I have zero attraction to (not just physical but personality as well) and they are usually extremely forward to the point of being creepy...

I guess bottom line... I see couples and happy people everywhere and I'm getting a bit tired of still being single.

I guess the first thing is... anyone have any advice on how to avoid being put in the friend zone? And secondly... what can I do to stop being so **** shy and start being more confident - to mentally become the person I have physically become?

Any help and advice would be appreciated. :)
 
Hiya Spider, glad you came out of your lurker "web" to post lolz!

Down to buisness! As a 27 year old man I can tell you this with confidence. You dont know yourself, that is ok. You need to actually decide what it is you want before you can expect yourself to really pursue it! I am a shy dude and I accepted long ago that I am not the shinest penny in the bank but you know what I know that I have a lot to offer folks if they give me a chance and truthfully I just recently realized I closed myself off from rejection because of my fear. I recently started using some free dating sites a bit more and as an excercise I just started shooting off mails to any women I had an interest in. You know what happened? I haven't gotten a single response from any of them. Sure that sucks but at the same time it thickens my skin and prepares me for the rejection that I hid from. Rejection is not fun I know but neither is sitting around waiting for the love of your life to appear! I can also, from these same sites, understand your interactions with folks that you are not interested in, wether that is physical or behavioural. Me personally I am a bit shallow in that I wont date an obese woman. Just to be clear my personal view on it is that you cannot wiegh more than I do. That is how I justify it to myself but I know that doesnt make it any less shallow. Trust that these other people are thinking the same thing!

The point is we as people, when we know what we want, wont allow anything to detract from what we are trying to obtain. You need to get yourself some human spirit! I am proud to know that you have made some changes in your own life to improve yourself and the image you present to the world but from your description you are just a mannequin, come on out from behind that glass and let that special someone you like know that you like them. The greatest advice I can offer to stay out of the dreaded "friend zone" is do not be her friend. Now that doesnt mean be a jerk or heartless, but it does mean letting go of passive behaviour and making a move. Baby step your way and trust me she will give you ques on her comfort level with you! Eye contact, touch acceptance or initiation, all these little things you can use. I wish you a hearty helping of luck but you dont need it! Keep being you and nothing...NOTHING can stand in your way!

Happy Travels
Tony
 
DiscoSpider said:
Hi. First time poster and er... new member I suppose. :p

I've been reading a lot of the threads on this forum and it's shown me that... the problem I have is a lot more common than I think. At felt like I was the only one but... wow how very wrong I am.

I'm twenty four years old and I've never had a girlfriend or an intimate relationship of any kind (not even a kiss, ha ha). Now, this is going to sound very dodgy but... I believe that saying "the longer you wait, the harder it gets" is absolutely true, does anyone else agree?

A lot of my friends have told me that I have/had "ugly duckling syndrome". When I was in high school, I was very overweight and unfit, did not have many friends and was bullied... a lot. A few years after high school though, I took up martial arts and self defense as a hobby and sport and ended up losing so much weight, getting very fit and completely changing how I look. It's a very surreal and kinda "wtf" feeling when people, even your own friends, start noticing you in a different light.

What's funny is back when I was younger (fat, unfit etc), if I told someone "I've never had a girlfriend" they would often respond "Yeah fair enough" or "I see", as if completely unsurprised. Nowadays if someone hears that I haven't had a girlfriend before, it's like blasphemy! They usually freak out.

I think my problem is... despite looking completely different, on the inside I am still the same fat, shy and insecure kid I was once. I have a lot of trouble talking to girls. Well... talking to girls (as a friend/individual) is easy, but talking to someone who I am attracted to and have feelings for, that's so hard! Especially when I try to express myself and tell them how I feel. I also often get "friend zoned"... the only girls who have expressed themselves toward me are usually girls I have zero attraction to (not just physical but personality as well) and they are usually extremely forward to the point of being creepy...

I guess bottom line... I see couples and happy people everywhere and I'm getting a bit tired of still being single.

I guess the first thing is... anyone have any advice on how to avoid being put in the friend zone? And secondly... what can I do to stop being so **** shy and start being more confident - to mentally become the person I have physically become?

Any help and advice would be appreciated. :)

Hey Spider, welcome to the boards :)

You sound very much like myself. Almost eerily similar :D

I'm 20 (soon to be 21) and kissless.

I was also overweight in secondary school, got constantly bullied and have radically changed by body since then (though ironically I still feel like I never look good enough).

I think the effect of bullying and "knowing" you're overweight in the past perhaps lasts a long time. I don't know about you, but I find I don't actually know how to show romantic interest in a girl (as in the "asking out" bit) because all that stuff never happened for me when I was younger.

Also similarly to you, I find the only girls that have approached me in the past have been quite creepy and turned out to be really undesirable once I got to know them.

Fortunately I sort of got luckier recently and a girl that seems to like me now is nicer and more genuine. I hope the same will happen to you - that part seems to simply be luck. Even so, I still have not managed to "ask her out" properly.

Anyway, my advice to you is simply see girls as friends. Forget the idea of the "friendzone" and just see each girl you talk to as a good friend.

If you feel that she finds you attractive, then just gently and slowly ease into being a little more friendly over time. Like be gently physical when you talk to her (touch her shoulder gently or brush into her every now and then). After a while she should start to get the hint that you like her a little bit, and if she likes you too she will reciprocate.

Unfortunately, I don't know what a guy is meant to do after confirming the attraction present like that. I've been sort of hugged, talked to earnestly and snuggled a bit by girls, but I have absolutely no clue what's meant to be done to demonstrate that you really like the girl. I presume that's what comes naturally to people who were attractive in their teens :(

I'm afraid my advice may be a little useless (it's very hard to explain), but best of luck to you :)
 
Im asian and grew up on the west side where the white upper middle class
people lives. Kids and adults can be very crule.
I cant change the colure of my skin nor my race.

Oddly enough..i began to notice patterns.
The so call bullying came from dudes not girls.
So it was just guys competing for women, trash talking and trying to box me out
oneway or the other. Thats how I saw it when pretending to women.

While some women wouldnt touch me with a ten foot pole. They didnt
bully me but thought nothing of me.

Luckiely for me. My first GF was prettier than all the girls in my HS.
We didnt attend the same school. She was cucasion. Blonde and can
be a super model. She loved me for me. Very kind and loving.
Being with her open up my mind from the regular HS peer pressure bubble
or whatever else how society was treating me. She was like a rose
in an oais in a hellist desert to me. I saw things differently. I knew things
are different. Her love for me effected me profoundly.
I was loved by the best of the best.
Sadly She had to moved.

HS and society became one big freaken joke to me...as the bullying and hatred
continued. Her love still lives inside of me in so so many ways.

Incidently during my Senoir yr in HS. I remember the day Andrea got so ferrious
in class and told everyone to fresia off out loud. To stop the fucken bullying.
Andrea was one of the pretties girl in HS. Guys would chase after her. But something
in her saw through all the BS. She became my GF that day. She asked me to share locker
together. We have lunch together. We walk to class together. We study together.
I rolled my truck...She didnt cared. She walk home with me everyday.
She was beautiful inside and out. Sadly she had to fucken died on Easter Sunday.
I left everything in our locker..All our books..All our pictures. All our mementums.
All of it. All our love, hopes and dreams. I left it all behind me and drop out of HS.
Andrea loved me for me.....She was the best.

So...I know what it's like to be hated just for breathing.
I also know what it's like to be loved just for being me.
Sometimes it's difficult for me to remember Im loveable
becuase of all the crazy honeysuckle society can throw at me and
that fate stuff of why the good died young.
Why god **** why? Why would you give her to me then take her away?
For what purpose?...Becuase it twisted me in more ways than one.
Not once in a life time that someone very beautuful inside and out who loves me very much had died on me.
But Twice???? Jenni died 4 yrs ago. Very young, very beautiful, very sucessful in life and had so much to live for
and offer the world.

Maybe just enough for me to be grateful to know what's its like to be truely love as I am
from a woman that's beautiful inside and out... becuase some people had nevered experinced it.
It dose makes a difference of how you feel about yourself on the inside and you wouldnt have
to work so hard on the self love stuff. And it dose makes a differnce on the outside of feeding your ego/confidence
and all that good stuff.

I never had to pursuit my first GF, Andrea or Jenni. They all came to me in thier own differnent ways.
Which is really fucken odd cuase...like I say, Ive been bullied and hated all my life by men...
whcih is fine with me...cuase I'm not fucken gay.

And the women dose that hates me... will fresia, they're ugly bitches anyway.
Ive had the best and been with the best..so there you go.

I couldnt understand how it would feel to never had been truely loved before by a woman.
I can tell you how it feels to lose people that truely loves you and it was beyound your control.
 
Most advice I read about avoiding the friend-zone is to show a heavy sexual interest and avoid the emotional stuff at first. Pouring your heart out and being all emotional is a turn off early on.

Otherwise it is all about practice... or so I am told.. has not worked for me.. but I have my own theory on that one. Go out and talk to girls. Go out and flirt with girls. That kind of thing. Keep it to yourself that you have never had a girlfriend. Keep it to yourself as long as you want. What is she going to do probe your personal history on day one?
 
In my case. I wont want women to know Im a freaken slut either.lmao

Some people do generalize about me...if they havnt heard me talk or speak.
Im a middle age asain male. It depends how I wear my hair and my clothing.
Some women said they were entirely shock to hear me speak for the first.
I dont fit a certain generalize profile of a middle age asain male.

So when I say "Hey there..Sweets" with a surfer dude sort of accent..instead
of an asian accent of a stiff asain male. It makes the women giggle or roll thier eyes.
Which is a kind of an ice breaker.

I've also gone shoping with women....They tell me how to dress or what I would
look good in. So whatever style the woman I'm with...she'll kind of wanna get
me to dress a certain way to enhance and compliment how she dresses.

I bascially threw out alot of my old wordrob. My old woredrob consisted of
how my exgf wanted me to dress....bascailly a husband. Its designed not to catch
other womens attention for day to day...With only a couple of my sunday's best suit.lol

At the sametime this new babe was right. She had good taste or knew what I would look good
in....Other women took notice of me more after i changed my woredrob.

Its almost in the sameway when you dance with a woman...that knows how to dance.
Youre just out there to compliment, enhance and support the way she dances.
She'll bascailly dance around you. Go with the flow with her and be in the moment with her.

My personality I kept or it's something I won't let go too easily of.
At some level...she was also trying to change me just beyound my woredrob.
Hence the controll issues or communitions in the relationship.lmao

Im over 40....these women where in thier last 20's or early 30's.
My exgf was over 40.

So...if you're looking to attract women in their 20's....dont dress like a
little kid or young teenager. Dont wear you're batman t-shirt.
At the sametime, dont over dress...such as wearing, pleted pants, a sport coat, penny loafers or a neck tie
like a middle age man, either.

Not long ago a chick made a comment about me...
How I thought I was badass or by the way I dress.
Obviously I didnt fit the profile of what she thought what a middle age asian male should dress
or act like. Im not sure if she found me attractive or unattractive.
I found her un attractive.LMAO
She dosnt know how many drop dead gorgeous Ive been with either.

WHAT IF YOU JUST ACT, FEEL and THINK YOU HAVE BEEN WITH BEAUTIFUL SWEET WOMEN
ALL YOUR LIFE?
 
What's funny is back when I was younger (fat, unfit etc), if I told someone "I've never had a girlfriend" they would often respond "Yeah fair enough" or "I see", as if completely unsurprised. Nowadays if someone hears that I haven't had a girlfriend before, it's like blasphemy! They usually freak out.

Although you sound better looking that I am I have been told that I am good looking and I feel like people dont understand why I am the way I am. Like you, i never portray myself as a lover but more like an outsider. I am often quiet and blend into the background. I wonder if I had a confident persona about me if girls would be more interested. I wish it was as easy as buying them in the sotre though.
 
Hi everyone. Thanks for all your input and response. I'm really sorry for not getting around to it sooner but... just been busy mostly (work and training related) which kinda sucks, ha ha.

I've read the responses, everyone has different ideas, but that's okay because everyone's ideas are sort of similar and of course, relevant.

With AJR: yeah I have tried to explore the world of online dating. I sent a few "e-mails" to people there and got three responses (out of the many I sent out). One was a decline while two were a bit more positive. The first positive response I did not go for due to our locations (this person, while "local" is still quite far away, at least an hour and a half by drive) while the second person I have hung out with a few times and while they are very nice, I don't really feel the connection that I want.

TheSolitaryMan: That's okay! You do sound very similar to me in regards to how you are and the advice you're offering. I have been in similar situations but just, don't really know what to do about it after. I'm oblivious when it comes to girls showing interest... I get signals easily confused, so sometimes (especially with female friends) I try to ignore it. That could be a mistake but, I don't want to make a mistake. I've almost destroyed a friendship once for expressing my feelings (again, misread signals). The only time I know for certain when a girl is interested in me is when they are overly forward with it... and unfortunately, girls who have done this to me, I have had zero interest or attraction in. I got one horrifying story but, I'll save that for another time... >_<

AFrozenSoul: I've heard all about the "friend zone". People say it exists, people say it doesn't exist. I'm not sure what to believe. Your advice is right though. I honestly try to avoid expressing myself emotional-wise because, I have done so in the past and... it doesn't help, so to speak. No I'm not all "I love you" or anything freaky like that, but yeah.

I have a lot of difficulty meeting people. Maybe I am just making excuses but... I work full time Monday to Friday and generally every weekday, I am at the gym or I am at my martial arts club training (some nights I am at both). When it comes to the weekend, I am usually hanging out with friends - whoever claims me first, really... as I mentioned before, I have tried online dating, started maybe a month ago but it hasn't really worked out... this will sound very dumb but it is true - I live in a town where there are more males than females, so meeting a single female that I would be attracted to as well as connect with is... difficult. :p
 
DiscoSpider, your experiences are really similar to mine. I, too, was the fat insecure shy kid. When I was about 20 suddenly things started going my way. My hair was all long and glossy (it makes girls endlessly jealous), my horrible acne had cleared up, I had put on loads of muscle, I was learning to play guitar and was basically feeling pretty boss.

Like you though, I was still the insecure, fat, shy kid on the inside. Something that helped me get over that was to work on my posture and body language. When you feel insecure all the time it affects your body a lot - it tenses you up and hunches you over. It becomes this feedback loop where your posture is changing the way you feel and your body is carrying tension you're not even aware of because it's become second nature to you. So you look and feel less confident because of it.

Anyways it really, really helped me when I started working on my posture and stuff. It doesn't go all the way - you still need to have the willpower to hit on girls - but it helped me A LOT. Holy CRAP it helped me a lot. Send me a PM if you like and I can point you in the direction of some good exercises.
 
Hi ajdass1, I appreciate the response, thank you.

It's funny how you mention posture. In the past (particularly when I was overweight and unfit) I had a very bad posture. VERY bad.

Posture is very much something I have been trying to work on. My posture has greatly improved in the last year or so (training on my back once a week as well as core once a week at the gym helps, plus my martial arts three times a week does a lot of core work so that helps too). My posture isn't perfect but it has improved greatly over the past few years. It has been slowly improving over the past three and a bit years but, significant improvement was because of the work I did last year on myself (gym stuff).

I understand completely what you mean though... when you're shy and insecure, your body and body language shows it. You're tense. You slouch (as you sit, stand, walk etc). You kinda use your hands and arms to sort of, in a way... create a "shield" around yourself. Girls can see that, people in general can see that.

It sucks but it's true but one thing I've learned is... confidence seems key, in almost anything really. Sports, work, relationships, girls etc. I can't believe how much confidence actually matters. Despite my physical change and achievements, I'm still quite an unconfident person (again, I still feel like a shy and insecure fat kid on the inside). I've been trying to work on my confidence but it's very difficult.

I've been on a few dates before but... I have trouble, a lot of trouble trying to, I dunno... show interest and make a move. I have -a lot- of female friends, I've been on a few dates but as embarrassing as it is to say, while I've never had a girlfriend, I've never shared any form of intimacy with a female before (not even a kiss).

I don't really know where I'm going with this but yeah, I guess... funny how confidence works like that. I've been trying to work on confidence but... any ideas on how to, I dunno, improve it?

 
I'm also 24 and so goddamn unhappy
i tried to build interpersonal relationships with women
since high school and college but the majority of those
people weren't my race.Few latina women in those places
i went.Now 24 i'm bitter i get drunk every other day.
it just sucks, i have 1 only physical friend and we barely talk
i think hes so stupid i helped out so many times and he acts like a *********

I am an average looking guy definitely not a monster but not a gorgeous man either.
2nd, i am very bitter what i want from a woman beside sex is the kissing and touching and intimacy
im not even picky because a human is a human ect

is funny to see so many women get involved with abusive men and they just stay there getting beaten and even raped and never leave.

if a man is beating you everyday and calling you disgusting why on earth would you stay with that man??
yup i met a woman online like that ..

3rd like i said before i am NOT picky
however,, what i do want from a woman is loyalty and honesty. I guess most western women are more of swingers they have no loyalty and picky as hell.
So i am a miserable son of a gun, pretty much feel dead inside with all the women i hear about their love life, pregnant ect

it gets very depressive for a man with needs and it fucks up the mind you know..it sad but it seems this is my faith i dont know if in the real world i will find some1 that wants to give that chance physical and emotionally. i am a bitter fresia, angry very angry... NO i don't show this side to people on the streets in my mind obviously and if i talk to some1 i dont tell this...
but overall my life has been honeysuckle complete honeysuckle

i can count all the great moments in my life in 1 hand...
like i said i feel angry angry and even more angry.

of course i get mad even cry I am a person. a human ,
good thing there is a remedy in life : death, death cleans out all the honeysuckle, ,degenerate people out there , ect.
so even this ******* broke, miserable life of mine will end 1 day and no 1 even those ******** men that mistreat their women
WONT get the last laugh after all, when they are buried 6 feet down.

and in their conscious they are poor imbeciles with no real power over no 1 just abusive ********.

well i wanted to share my story will open a coors beer now


i cry when i drink beer
beer just has that effect on me.
 
Copacel said:
I'm also 24 and so goddamn unhappy
i tried to build interpersonal relationships with women
since high school and college but the majority of those
people weren't my race.Few latina women in those places
i went.Now 24 i'm bitter i get drunk every other day.
it just sucks, i have 1 only physical friend and we barely talk
i think hes so stupid i helped out so many times and he acts like a *********

I am an average looking guy definitely not a monster but not a gorgeous man either.
2nd, i am very bitter what i want from a woman beside sex is the kissing and touching and intimacy
im not even picky because a human is a human ect

is funny to see so many women get involved with abusive men and they just stay there getting beaten and even raped and never leave.

if a man is beating you everyday and calling you disgusting why on earth would you stay with that man??
yup i met a woman online like that ..

3rd like i said before i am NOT picky
however,, what i do want from a woman is loyalty and honesty. I guess most western women are more of swingers they have no loyalty and picky as hell.
So i am a miserable son of a gun, pretty much feel dead inside with all the women i hear about their love life, pregnant ect

it gets very depressive for a man with needs and it fucks up the mind you know..it sad but it seems this is my faith i dont know if in the real world i will find some1 that wants to give that chance physical and emotionally. i am a bitter fresia, angry very angry... NO i don't show this side to people on the streets in my mind obviously and if i talk to some1 i dont tell this...
but overall my life has been honeysuckle complete honeysuckle

i can count all the great moments in my life in 1 hand...
like i said i feel angry angry and even more angry.

of course i get mad even cry I am a person. a human ,
good thing there is a remedy in life : death, death cleans out all the honeysuckle, ,degenerate people out there , ect.
so even this ******* broke, miserable life of mine will end 1 day and no 1 even those ******** men that mistreat their women
WONT get the last laugh after all, when they are buried 6 feet down.

and in their conscious they are poor imbeciles with no real power over no 1 just abusive ********.

well i wanted to share my story will open a coors beer now


i cry when i drink beer
beer just has that effect on me.



Uh...

I'm really sorry to hear all of that, Copacel. Truly, I am. That is a very sad and unfortunate situation you are in. :(

If you don't mind me saying, your response kind of went completely off topic from my original post. This is my post about my issues and seeking any advice, but... let me try and offer you some help. I hope what I say does help. :)

Making friends can be very difficult. I understand that and so would probably everyone on this forum. Realistically though, you're the only one who can do it. You can meet people, be introduced to people and whatnot but at the end of the day, it is up to you to put in the effort to try and befriend people. I realise this is easier said than done, but it's the truth. The first step is always the hardest. Always.

Do you work? Do you study at college or anything like that? Maybe you could try and join some kind of social club. From my understanding, a lot of colleges have those sort of things, right?

Do you play any sports? If you don't, perhaps you should take up a sport or martial arts?

I know for a fact that physical exercise can really help relieve stress and anger. It can act as a distraction while providing you with new goals to achieve and new things to do. On top of that, physical exercise itself is very beneficial - it's healthy and it may boost your self esteem and confidence. You may also meet some new people there and you may have the opportunity to make new friends. Try finding something that interests you and that you might enjoy.

As for the drinking and getting drunk everyday... that's not a good idea and to me, it sounds like you know it's not a good idea. Drinking often and excessively has such a negative impact on one's health.

I know a guy... we used to be very close friends but now we don't see each other very often. Anyway, he drinks. A lot. Almost every night he will drink. He drinks to the point where he passes out and has little to no memory of the night before. All this drinking has put a heavy toll on his life... God knows what his liver must look like and he has over the years put on A LOT of weight... A LOT. On top of that, he gets into arguments and even physical fights with his friends and even physical drunken fights with strangers... he is putting his own life at risk in more ways than one! He doesn't know how to stop, nor does he want to, if we ever try to talk to him, he gets very defensive and then aggressive. We try to help him but... he won't accept it.

"You can give a horse water, but you can't make them drink it." - ever heard that saying?

It basically means that people can try and offer other people help, but in the end, it's up to that person to make the decision for themselves for whether or not they want help.

I hope you or no one minds me saying this but, I think you should talk to somebody. A professional. I think you should find someone to talk to, to discuss your problems with the issues that you may have, so that you can find a solution to solve these issues to better yourself and your life.

I'm sorry for such a long post, Copacel. But I do hope what I say gives you a positive idea. I hope it helps.

Good luck and all the best. :)



 
Latina babes are gorgeous.

I listen to work (audio books) by Dr. Anothny Roberts.
Ultimate Confidence and Beyound positive Thinking.
Audio books are very benifitual becuase I can listen it
anytime and anywhere...over and over again so that my mind
and fully absorb it, therefore it'll go into my long term memories.
It's like having a counselor on the go. My mind will retain
the informations more if I just listen rather than reading.
We only retain less than 10% of the materials we read.
If you're speed reading...you'll process informations even less.

There's plenty of young single women that attend support groups such as AA.lol
Alot of them do come up to me ( not to all the dudes.lol).
if you think you might have a drinking problem and would like an alternative life style...Alcohol is a depressent of course. It'll make you depressed as fresia.
Recovery covers a vast area...such as self esteem ( not just not drinking).
Anyone can stop drinking...It's being happy and sober.
The key to soberiety is that one should get WELL/Recover...or BE OK
and happy with oneself...so a person shouldnt need to get drunk/high
to live or cope with life.
There's alot of people that have years of soberiety but remain miserable
becuase they havnt done alot of self work.

As far as women gose...Theyve always made themselve avaliable to
me wheather I hang out in AA or a Bar.lol

EXPOSURE/APPLICATIONS are KEYS.
You can read about others success or even have instructions given to you.
The more you apply it or is expose to it. The better you'll be at something.
Everyone gose through a learning curve as they put theroies into practice.
Interacting with women isnt any different.....

Attending AA at first..I found sober women or people
rather inteminating...becuase they are sober.

Clean and Sober women are WELL...
They take care of themselve. They love themselves.
They have high selfesteem and confidence.
Theyve done alot of selfwork and soul serching.
I sure certainly couldnt pull a fast one on them.
( you cant bullshit a bullshiter).
They are honest, openminded, and WILLING.lol

Recovery Women are a lot more WELL or Wiser than an average women...
Becuase They have been exposed to Healthy Living tools and life.
They worked through a lot of personal issues regularly.
They are very spiritual...Some are very sexual becuase they dont have
a lot of hang ups or sexual hang up or guilt anymore.
They Faced their FEARS and overcame them.
They will also bear thier hearts and soul to you...if you are trust worthy of thier trust.
They certaintly are not afraid to tell you to fresia off, if you dont treat them right.
They DONT NEED YOU. They LOVE THEMSELVE, arnt clingy, demanding, manipulative or controlling.
If you have REJECTIONS ISSUE...Recovery Women arnt going to buy into your BULLSHIT.
Like i said...they worked through rejections issues themselves.

It's always nice to feel wanted :p
I like recovey women...becuase they WANT ME. Not becuase they NEED me.
They're not shitted faced out of thier fucken mind when having sex with me.
They're FULLY AWEAR and IN THE MOMENT with me. They remember everything.
They dont NEED me to SAVE THEM. They're independent and are self supporting.
They know how to BE happy with themselves. They know i ultimately dont make them happy.
Thier happiness and well being ly in thier own hands.

These are some spiritual principles...
HONESTY, FAITH, COURAGE, INTEGRITY, EQUALITY

At 24...and never having a GF.
There's a lot of SEXUAL GUILT and hang ups you're still carrying around.
What are you really afraid of?
Do you have COURAGE to simply just kiss a woman or ask her out????
 
I registered for this forum just yesterday, and instead of creating a new thread to whine, err, lament about my own situation I'll post in this thread.

I can relate to many of you in this thread. Here is my story. I'll try to keep it brief so you don't end up like the hapless passengers who hanged themselves in the movie Airplane! as Ted rambled about his failed relationship with Elaine.

For my entire life I have always been young-looking for my age and rail thin, so women who want some handsome, strong stud have never been attracted to me. There are have been a few times I've been told I'm "cute" and "adorable," but those compliments have never come with great frequency, and even when they do come they feel like damnation-by-faint-praise. Let's just say "cute" and "adorable" guys aren't the ones picking up chicks in bars.

And you can combine my looks with my introverted, goofy-to-awkward personality and my geeky, obscure interests. If only to illustrate my geekiness, I compare dating to the Drake Equation, which was created to estimate how many planets in the galaxy might foster intelligent life. Basically, I realize there are millions of women roughly my age, but a limited number are sexually attracted to those with my boyish looks, a fraction of those women are attracted to geeky types, and a miniscule fraction of that group will cross paths with me, and even smaller number will be single at the time that happens.

From adolescence until I was 24, all I ever knew was rejection by girls. I was relegated to being the "nice" or "smart" (although I must say they were probably mistaking awkward geekiness for intelligence, heh) friend. I realize having confidence is necessary, but it's difficult to find confidence when all you know is rejection.

In late 2009, I was able to escape the friend zone when I entered into a long-distance relationship with a friend I had met way back in 2003 through an online message board for a mutual interest. For two years, we had a blissful relationship. It seemed so wonderful, having two best friends, two kindred spirits, fall in love with each other, and we had plans to have her move in with me this July. Or so it seemed.

In December, she cheated on me with a coworker and now she's in a relationship with me. Being cheated upon always stings, but this one really hurts. She left me for a total loser. He really is a loser; this isn't just jealousy speaking. She suffers from depression, and in addition to expressing disappointment that I didn't show more "leadership" by having her move in with me sooner, said she likes the new guy for his "masculine" influence and how she needed somebody who is "tougher" than she is. She might as well have chopped off my testicles when she said that because it made me feel so emasculated. I feel like such a dweeby doormat right now.

I thought I had found the one girl who loved me for who I am, but I guess idiot rednecks who are behind on their child support payments are more attractive to her. Now I'm back at square one, wondering if I'll ever find somebody who loves me enough that she'll want to stay with me. And I wonder if I'll be able to maintain a "real" relationship (where you are actually live together or near each other) because I've never been in one.

Factor in how I have no dating prospects at work and I haven't been able to make any friends since I moved to the East Coast, and I feel pretty despondent at the moment. I'm giving online dating a try, but I wish I had more reason to be optimistic. I connect with so few people to begin with....what gives me reason to think I'll connect with somebody who is female AND sexually attracted to me anytime soon?
 
DiscoSpider said:
I guess the first thing is... anyone have any advice on how to avoid being put in the friend zone? And secondly... what can I do to stop being so **** shy and start being more confident - to mentally become the person I have physically become?

Any help and advice would be appreciated. :)

There is a reason you are shy, if you don't know that reason then you have to find out, if you want to do something about it.
I guess it is most likely because you care a lot about what others think about you. It's hard to overcome such. You just have to accept that some people won't like you, and some will. Let it be their problem if they don't like you. So.. try to care less, that helps.
I'm not someone who has much experience with dating, however.. is it such a bad thing to be in the "friend zone"? I would think it's the best thing to start out as friends and then become more over time. Who said there is no way out of the "friend zone"? Maybe sometimes there isn't, because the person just isn't interested in you at all.
Have patience, be honest, be brave, be honorable.

Cavonnier said:
Factor in how I have no dating prospects at work and I haven't been able to make any friends since I moved to the East Coast, and I feel pretty despondent at the moment. I'm giving online dating a try, but I wish I had more reason to be optimistic. I connect with so few people to begin with....what gives me reason to think I'll connect with somebody who is female AND sexually attracted to me anytime soon?

There are females that are in your situation, just think like that. If you can afford to, be as honest as possible with your dating profile. If you get some replies then there's a much higher chance it will work out in the end. I don't think sexual attraction is the most important thing in a relationship, wouldn't worry about it. I would rate it very low personally, but that's me.
 
DiscoSpider said:
Hi ajdass1, I appreciate the response, thank you.

It's funny how you mention posture. In the past (particularly when I was overweight and unfit) I had a very bad posture. VERY bad.

Posture is very much something I have been trying to work on. My posture has greatly improved in the last year or so (training on my back once a week as well as core once a week at the gym helps, plus my martial arts three times a week does a lot of core work so that helps too). My posture isn't perfect but it has improved greatly over the past few years. It has been slowly improving over the past three and a bit years but, significant improvement was because of the work I did last year on myself (gym stuff).

I understand completely what you mean though... when you're shy and insecure, your body and body language shows it. You're tense. You slouch (as you sit, stand, walk etc). You kinda use your hands and arms to sort of, in a way... create a "shield" around yourself. Girls can see that, people in general can see that.

It sucks but it's true but one thing I've learned is... confidence seems key, in almost anything really. Sports, work, relationships, girls etc. I can't believe how much confidence actually matters. Despite my physical change and achievements, I'm still quite an unconfident person (again, I still feel like a shy and insecure fat kid on the inside). I've been trying to work on my confidence but it's very difficult.

I've been on a few dates before but... I have trouble, a lot of trouble trying to, I dunno... show interest and make a move. I have -a lot- of female friends, I've been on a few dates but as embarrassing as it is to say, while I've never had a girlfriend, I've never shared any form of intimacy with a female before (not even a kiss).

I don't really know where I'm going with this but yeah, I guess... funny how confidence works like that. I've been trying to work on confidence but... any ideas on how to, I dunno, improve it?

You are right that confidence is key to success in today's world, and you seem to be on the right path to correcting yourself. Working out and taking martial arts lessons are great ways to improve both your physical posture and actual confidence. One thing that helped me improve my posture was taking dance lessons. Learning to dance helped me be consciously aware of my movement and surroundings, and corrected the mincing/pansy walk that I and so many men pick up in today's society due to chemical feminization and lack of a father figures.

As for having trouble making a move, you might want to think about getting a sales job on the side. Even if it's at Best Buy on weekends, I've seen that help a few men get over their approach anxiety.
 
AfterDark said:
If you can afford to, be as honest as possible with your dating profile.

I try to be, even if it costs me responses. I could say I'm a wealthy investment banker who works on Wall Street, has a penthouse near Central Park, and who can bench press 315 pounds and get more responses, but they'd just be disappointed when they'd meet the real me, a skinny salaryman who rents an illegal basement apartment on Long Island, heh. And frankly, I'm not attracted to the type of woman who would actively seek such a man!

Maybe I should try the Geek 2 Geek online dating service...

 
AFrozenSoul said:
Most advice I read about avoiding the friend-zone is to show a heavy sexual interest and avoid the emotional stuff at first. Pouring your heart out and being all emotional is a turn off early on.

showing heavy sexual interest is a turn off for me.

but then I also have a problem with sometimes pouring my heart out and being emotional early on.
 

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