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Are people getting dumber?
#21
Is it really necessary to necro all these old threads?
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#22
Come now, we all benefit from rereading LonesomeCrow's posts. Smile
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#23
(02-13-2018, 07:40 AM)ardour Wrote: Is it really necessary to necro all these old threads?

I'm bored. And when no one's around, I necro the cool ones :-P
You can lodge a formal protest with the Board of the Intergalactic Council of Planets. They'll form a comittee and study the matter in due time. ;-)

Just kidding. But I think it's an interesting question, beyond simply a matter of opinion. I've been reading on IQ and the debate surrounding it and find it fascinating how many of the things we take for granted, such as IQ being a measure of intelligence that is unfailable, is actually being debated even by it's inceptors. It's a fascinating concept. The Flynn effect and the now opposed trend being notice is also a worthwhile read, for those interested in the question.
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#24
(02-13-2018, 11:10 PM)Richard_39 Wrote:
(02-13-2018, 07:40 AM)ardour Wrote: Is it really necessary to necro all these old threads?

I'm bored. And when no one's around, I necro the cool ones :-P
You can lodge a formal protest with the Board of the Intergalactic Council of Planets. They'll form a comittee and study the matter in due time. ;-)

Just kidding. But I think it's an interesting question, beyond simply a matter of opinion. I've been reading on IQ and the debate surrounding it and find it fascinating how many of the things we take for granted, such as IQ being a measure of intelligence that is unfailable, is actually being debated even by it's inceptors. It's a fascinating concept. The Flynn effect and the now opposed trend being notice is also a worthwhile read, for those interested in the question.

 IQ tests  are supposed to control for education level, yet the Flynn Effect shows that's not really true

As for a drop in 'base level' cognitive capacities, predictably you get people on the Right blaming social welfare programmes for that, but there's also a theory relating to lack of famine and major disease outbreaks in the developed world. For example there's been some speculation that the Black Death (which affected the peasant/serf classes more) led to the Enlightenment by raising the average IQ in Europe a few points. That assumes class and intelligence were linked, which is a dubious assumption particularly in a medieval context, but there's probably something to the idea that people most likely survive in those circumstances might on average be more intelligent.
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#25
(02-14-2018, 08:39 AM)ardour Wrote:
(02-13-2018, 11:10 PM)Richard_39 Wrote:
(02-13-2018, 07:40 AM)ardour Wrote: Is it really necessary to necro all these old threads?

I'm bored. And when no one's around, I necro the cool ones :-P
You can lodge a formal protest with the Board of the Intergalactic Council of Planets. They'll form a comittee and study the matter in due time. ;-)

Just kidding. But I think it's an interesting question, beyond simply a matter of opinion. I've been reading on IQ and the debate surrounding it and find it fascinating how many of the things we take for granted, such as IQ being a measure of intelligence that is unfailable, is actually being debated even by it's inceptors. It's a fascinating concept. The Flynn effect and the now opposed trend being notice is also a worthwhile read, for those interested in the question.

 IQ tests  are supposed to control for education level, yet the Flynn Effect shows that's not really true

As for a drop in 'base level' cognitive capacities, predictably you get people on the Right blaming social welfare programmes for that, but there's also a theory relating to lack of famine and major disease outbreaks in the developed world. For example there's been some speculation that the Black Death  (which affected the peasant/serf classes more) led to the Enlightenment by raising the average IQ in Europe a few points. That assumes class and intelligence were linked, which is a dubious assumption particularly in a medieval context,  but there's probably something to the idea that people most likely survive in those circumstances might on average be more intelligent.

What about the connection with the availabilty of schooling? Prior to the 50's, the trends in increases in I.Q were constant. Yet, as soon as the vast majority of people in developed countries were educated. shortly after the 50's up until now, IQ has been steadily declining. WHY? lol.
I think it's a fascinating thing. Maybe an indication that IQ isn't a measure of intellect as we had so hoped to believe. I wouldn't say meaningless, but...not quite the right tool.
I've read as well about your theory. I don't think social welfare programs have anything to do with it, really. THere is however, something that's been on my mind for a while, which didn't use to exist prior to what, the 50's, the 60's? We don't have those in Canada, but you have those in the US, I just don't know how expanded the phenomenon is; Christian or religious schools. College or Universities (Bringham Young comes to mind). Religion-based dogma where fact and knowledge might be mulled in favor of dogma. An interesting article I've read considering the rise in Islamic Public schools in the US (different religion, part of the same problem. https://www.huffingtonpost.com/roy-speck...31334.html)
I've read about a few times when this has actually been seen to occur, but I wonder how widespread the phenomena is and if it really has an impact. That's the specific US situation, to a more limited degree in Canada (everyone is subject to the very strict guidelines of the Ministère of Education who can decide to close any school without warning) but I doubt it's the only factor. I think a lack of focus in education in the last couple of decades, specifically cuts in funding and elimination of the approach of general knowledge in favor of more "work oriented" or "specialist" oriented goals have had an effect with IQ. People are becoming more "specialized" and less all around "knowledgeable". (another link to a study, this one for the Canadian front of the problem http://publications.gc.ca/Collection-R/L...86-e.htm#B. Quality)

Is it really a reflection of intelligence and having an impact on I.Q, or is I.Q not something that is adequate for our current social circumstances in 2018?
I don't know. But I find all of this fascinating ;-)

In essence, are we becoming stupider? Quite possibly. But it's not entirely our faults either. The factors are numerous and complex and governement has an important claim of responsibility, as our employee in this matter.
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