Brain puke

This is hypocritical.
I love to drink...it means I don't have to be me for a while.
I hate when people ***** and moan...especially when it's about people bitching and moaning.
People say "there's no I in team" - this often leads to teams of useless people who contribute nothing as individuals.
Be sensitive without being a wimp...
be strong without being cold...
be kind without being used...
be firm without being unfair...
Be trusting without being naïve...
what should I be without the caveats??

What if the punishment for having the disease is being denied the cure?
What if you get dealt a bad hand...are you still expected to win the game?
What's the difference between an excuse and a reason?
What if your biggest test has already come and gone?
What if they made a mistake and you should have been born 20 years ago?
What if you're just here so that when someone else does something amazing...there's a crowd?
What if everything happens for a really stupid reason??
What if everyone you know just hangs out with you because they enjoy laughing at you behind your back?

Sorry...just having one of those days

I dig...

Life doesn't suck completely, all of the time.

*hugs* Hope you'll feel better soon.

Give me a yay or nay on some of these.. I need to know if I'm alone in some of this:

- if you can't do it alone...you can't do it
- talk is cheap
- looking professional isn't the same as being professional
- love is the most important thing...period
- better to die for something special than live for nothing special
- loyalty is more often abused than appreciated
- one who doesn't love theselves loves others too much
- if the world ever stopped spinning you'd get out and push
- not being strong enough is not an option
- hand-in-hand is not as strong as shoulder-to-shoulder
- you'd rather have a hundred friends on facebook than a few that you'd march through hell with
- doing something because everybody does it is the stupidest reason to do something
- it doesn't matter if you have to bleed sweat cry or stay awake till your eyes fall out...what matters is getting the job done
- you'll die when you're good and ready
- lifes not worth living if there's nothing in it worth dying for
- love bottled up ages like milk...and when it spoils it turns to hate and bitterness
- deep down a person can get used to pain and misery - to the point where pain and joy trade places

I don't know...not anymore anyway

Nay on talk is cheap - I mean I'd certainly pay for the way you talk sometimes(well you and Jon Stewart).

What if the punishment for having the disease is being denied the cure? (no comment)
What if you get dealt a bad hand...are you still expected to win the game? (i dont think winning is the objective here)
What's the difference between an excuse and a reason? (a very very fine line)
What if your biggest test has already come and gone? (take two... annnnd action!)
What if they made a mistake and you should have been born 20 years ago? (no comment)
What if you're just here so that when someone else does something amazing...there's a crowd? (the recognition is the problem, why do you even need to be recognized by people who dont matter?)
What if everything happens for a really stupid reason?? (you are the one to make it stupid)
What if everyone you know just hangs out with you because they enjoy laughing at you behind your back? (you can laugh at anyone for anything. now you know they arent worth your time)

--

- if you can't do it alone...you can't do it (do what you can)
- talk is cheap (a lot of the times)
- looking professional isn't the same as being professional (yes:see 'talk is cheap')
- love is the most important thing...period (love of something/someone yes. purpose of life is to find passion)
- better to die for something special than live for nothing special (i can see how this can be spun, but yes)
- loyalty is more often abused than appreciated (almost every time)
- one who doesn't love theselves loves others too much (no, that loving other's part is a bit fake in this case)
- if the world ever stopped spinning you'd get out and push (it feels that way, but yes)
- not being strong enough is not an option (thats not the point. be as strong as you can be.. plus one)
- hand-in-hand is not as strong as shoulder-to-shoulder (i think thats the same side of the coin)
- you'd rather have a hundred friends on facebook than a few that you'd march through hell with (disagree)
- doing something because everybody does it is the stupidest reason to do something (agree)
- it doesn't matter if you have to bleed sweat cry or stay awake till your eyes fall out...what matters is getting the job done (disagree, but would depend on what it is that needs to be done)
- you'll die when you're good and ready (agree, but thats not for a long time)
- lifes not worth living if there's nothing in it worth dying for (agree, so go out there find something/someone to die for)
- love bottled up ages like milk...and when it spoils it turns to hate and bitterness (thats a choice)
- deep down a person can get used to pain and misery - to the point where pain and joy trade places (disagree, you cant get used to pain, you can shut down your emotions - which also shuts down joy)

- if you can't do it alone...you can't do it Some things cannot be done alone.


- talk is cheap Depends on the context. Cheap, as in useless, or cheap as in free? If you never release your thoughts, you wither away. However, it is not free. You get opinions and sometimes criticised.

- looking professional isn't the same as being professional Yes, and no. Yes, being professional means you are already there. Looking professional, opens doors to become professional.

- love is the most important thing...period If you rely on love, and stop eating, drinking, and breathing you'll die. So no. It's not. It's on the "top list" of importance, but not the first.

- better to die for something special than live for nothing special It's better to live something special, then die for nothing.

- loyalty is more often abused than appreciated It's more misused then wanted.

- one who doesn't love theselves loves others too much Depends on the individual. Some who hate themselves, push their image onto others and thus hate others. Though others who hate themselves love others.

- if the world ever stopped spinning you'd get out and push Works with the first statement of "doing it alone or not at all" idea. Only works if others are willing to do it too!

- not being strong enough is not an option Strength isn't a one person thing. Surely individuals show strength, but that strength is feeble behind closed doors - when the walls of strength are crumbling.

- hand-in-hand is not as strong as shoulder-to-shoulder No comment on this one.

- you'd rather have a hundred friends on facebook than a few that you'd march through hell with Facebook is impersonal. As are the people 99.9% of the time. So, no.

- doing something because everybody does it is the stupidest reason to do something Doing something no one (or very few) have ever done is the smartest thing to do.

- it doesn't matter if you have to bleed sweat cry or stay awake till your eyes fall out...what matters is getting the job done What matters is making sure you are in a healthy state of mind and body, to get the job done.

- you'll die when you're good and ready Except in the case of accidents.

- lifes not worth living if there's nothing in it worth dying for Then make sure to make something worth living for - because then you won't WANT to die.

- love bottled up ages like milk...and when it spoils it turns to hate and bitterness Tolerance ages like milk. Love can always be refreshed.

- deep down a person can get used to pain and misery - to the point where pain and joy trade places As a safety mechanism in our minds, some become "used to the norm" and it becomes a security blanket. Getting out of that norm, can stress them.

murmi97 said:

Nay on talk is cheap - I mean I'd certainly pay for the way you talk sometimes(well you and Jon Stewart).

Click to expand...

You are too kind!!

You are definitely my favorite for mentioning me in the same sentence with Jon Stewart! Gonna feel like a million bucks for a few days .
Ironically I have trouble talking in my day-to-day - fancy myself a better listener. I guess I worry that my talk is cheap.


To Regumika

What if you get dealt a bad hand...are you still expected to win the game? (i dont think winning is the objective here)
If you don't win, then you lose...I know I know...it's a pessimistic attitude - but be careful calling someone a pessimist - they may in-turn call you naive

What if your biggest test has already come and gone? (take two... annnnd action!)
Second chances are a rare luxury

What if you're just here so that when someone else does something amazing...there's a crowd? (the recognition is the problem, why do you even need to be recognized by people who dont matter?)
I'd rather be the one recognized than the one who doesn't matter

What if everything happens for a really stupid reason?? (you are the one to make it stupid)
To hell with fate? I can respect that - but what if fighting fate is like fighting gravity?

What if everyone you know just hangs out with you because they enjoy laughing at you behind your back? (you can laugh at anyone for anything. now you know they arent worth your time)
Is deciding people aren't worth it the same as deciding to be alone?

--

- one who doesn't love themselves loves others too much (no, that loving other's part is a bit fake in this case)
Is it? Emotions don't go away...you can't bottle them up inside for a lifetime - they eventually overflow into other parts of your life

- not being strong enough is not an option (thats not the point. be as strong as you can be.. plus one)
Sounds complacent - don't be happy with how strong you are...what if someone wants to take something from you and they're stronger than you?

- hand-in-hand is not as strong as shoulder-to-shoulder (i think thats the same side of the coin)
Is loving each other more important than being willing to face the world together? - (no...i don't think one automatically implies the other)

- deep down a person can get used to pain and misery - to the point where pain and joy trade places (disagree, you cant get used to pain, you can shut down your emotions - which also shuts down joy)
Agree - does seem a bit cowardly to shut down your emotions because they're too painful



To Senamian
- if you can't do it alone...you can't do it Some things cannot be done alone.
If you can do it alone, but I need help to do the same - doesn't that make me weaker?

- talk is cheap Depends on the context. Cheap, as in useless, or cheap as in free? If you never release your thoughts, you wither away. However, it is not free. You get opinions and sometimes criticised.
Things don't have to be expensive for you to like them...but telling someone you care about them is less valuable than SHOWING someone you care about them

- looking professional isn't the same as being professional Yes, and no. Yes, being professional means you are already there. Looking professional, opens doors to become professional.
"Professional" is something you are - not something you appear to be...true professionals can tell the difference. They will appreciate the effort, and notice the lack of effort.

- love is the most important thing...period If you rely on love, and stop eating, drinking, and breathing you'll die. So no. It's not. It's on the "top list" of importance, but not the first.
You need air and food to live - what value does life have if it's loveless?

- better to die for something special than live for nothing special It's better to live something special, then die for nothing.
Die for nothing?? I don't want to sit around and wait for my body/mind to expire. I'd rather die for someone than have someone die for me.  

- loyalty is more often abused than appreciated It's more misused then wanted.
Interesting...Do you think Loyalty is one of those things people think they're SUPPOSED to want, but don't actually want?

- if the world ever stopped spinning you'd get out and push Works with the first statement of "doing it alone or not at all" idea. Only works if others are willing to do it too!
If the world stopped spinning and realized it needed people to push - would you step forward? What would you think of those that didn't do as you did?

- not being strong enough is not an option Strength isn't a one person thing. Surely individuals show strength, but that strength is feeble behind closed doors - when the walls of strength are crumbling.
Can someone who is not individually strong bring strength to a group?

- doing something because everybody does it is the stupidest reason to do something Doing something no one (or very few) have ever done is the smartest thing to do.
Agreed - you can't lead down a path someone else has paved.

- it doesn't matter if you have to bleed sweat cry or stay awake till your eyes fall out...what matters is getting the job done What matters is making sure you are in a healthy state of mind and body, to get the job done.
Pushing yourself past your limits makes you stronger - letting your limits dictate how far you go makes you weak...right?

- life's not worth living if there's nothing in it worth dying for Then make sure to make something worth living for - because then you won't WANT to die.
Well met

- love bottled up ages like milk...and when it spoils it turns to hate and bitterness Tolerance ages like milk. Love can always be refreshed.
Can it be refreshed? Perhaps it doesn't spoil, but if you bottle it up and leave it locked away - you may forget it's there and learn to live without it. Care to expand on the tolerance comment (not sure I follow you)

Thanks for the replies/sharing and understanding! Going through it all was one of the more stimulating things I've done recently!! Truly made me think of things I've never thought of before. I hope my responses don't come off as antagonizing...i'm simply trying to return the favor! .

Cheers to you guys!

- But every person is different, and some may be able to do something alone - but others benefit from having help. Getting help from others is not weakness - and should be appreciated.

- Yes, actions speak louder than words - but many people thrive on words.

- Yet some professionals forget to even put forth the effort themselves... Just because they are already "there" in life.

- Yet those with love, find that their lives are STILL worthless.

- Maybe that needs to be rephrased? It's no good to die for nothing. But make sure you are LIVING for something. Because then you do not die in vain.

- No, more of... When people have loyalty, they abuse the privileges of someone who is always there. But then there are those who are very loyal - but find their loyalty, is unwanted. Or unappreciated and unseen.

- The world "stops moving" idea, kind of reminds me of such things as "stranded on an island with 5 people; how do you survive?" Some people may not know what to do, but once shown - will help. Then there are those who think they are "too good" to put effort in. If the world stopped moving, I almost half expect most people to think they were too good to help push - and leave it to the smaller numbers of people who pitch in.

- But one strength only goes so far - bring in 2, 5, 10 people - then you have more than one strength, and can go farther. So all in all, the individual is as important as the group individuals make up.

- Exactly, you cannot lead down the path someone else has paved - because you're following. Why not make a new path? Lay down cobblestone instead of pavement.

- But I know those (including myself) who do push themselves passed their limits, and in the end their mental and/or physical strength depletes so much so, that they end up falling harder at the end, then if they had taken a second to breathe. Though in the end there is strength, there's also still strength if one does not continuously push themselves. Sometimes it is nice to relax. I know that though a yea and a half ago, I did come out a lot stronger by pushing myself (more of survival than anything), I could have been just as strong if I had the willingness to accept people's help.

- Tolerance is the aftermath of love depletion. Or, even the beginning when there really wasn't love there. Sure, the words I Love You may be said, but the feeling is gone. You tolerate them, but eventually that tolerance sours. That is why love HAS to be continuously refreshed. You see it in marriages. They have kids, they're too busy, they're too tired, they had a long day at work... Eventually the connection is frayed, and tolerance becomes the norm. But refresh the love, taking time to show said love - it doesn't have to "age like milk". And yes, it can be bottled up and locked away... Allowing you to forget about it, and even live without it - but to truly live... You need a lot more than aging tolerance. And love is not limited to couples either.

What if you get dealt a bad hand...are you still expected to win the game? (i dont think winning is the objective here)
If you don't win, then you lose...I know I know...it's a pessimistic attitude - but be careful calling someone a pessimist - they may in-turn call you naive
*its not a game to be won, its not even a competition

What if your biggest test has already come and gone? (take two... annnnd action!)
Second chances are a rare luxury
*unless you mean stuff like joining the military and failed -now on permanent record and you will never get another chance- then create another chance. its not always about choosing the best path, but creating a new path.

What if you're just here so that when someone else does something amazing...there's a crowd? (the recognition is the problem, why do you even need to be recognized by people who dont matter?)
I'd rather be the one recognized than the one who doesn't matter
*thats what i was warning against.. the 'need to be recognized' needs to be dissolved. life is not about being recognized. its all social status that doesnt matter - though people keep making it matter.

What if everything happens for a really stupid reason?? (you are the one to make it stupid)
To hell with fate? I can respect that - but what if fighting fate is like fighting gravity?
*no.. i was trying to imply 'perspective'.. it is only stupid if you make it stupid. if you dont think it is a stupid reason, then it isnt.

What if everyone you know just hangs out with you because they enjoy laughing at you behind your back? (you can laugh at anyone for anything. now you know they arent worth your time)
Is deciding people aren't worth it the same as deciding to be alone?
*take zombie apocalypse. it is better to continue living and fighting alone in hopes of other survivors than to just give up and die. technically yes you are alone.. but you havent given up yet.

--

- one who doesn't love themselves loves others too much (no, that loving other's part is a bit fake in this case)
Is it? Emotions don't go away...you can't bottle them up inside for a lifetime - they eventually overflow into other parts of your life
*flow into other parts - perhaps. it being love (or loving/lovingly)? i dont think so. <-if youre talking about being kind and stuff.. kind is not the same as love.

- not being strong enough is not an option (thats not the point. be as strong as you can be.. plus one)
Sounds complacent - don't be happy with how strong you are...what if someone wants to take something from you and they're stronger than you?
*i think we're talking about different 'strong' here.. and you missed the +1 part. but ill bite, physically weak? learn to compensate with other strengths. against brute strength? get a weapon. if they have a weapon too? then you two are equally strong.

- hand-in-hand is not as strong as shoulder-to-shoulder (i think thats the same side of the coin)
Is loving each other more important than being willing to face the world together? - (no...i don't think one automatically implies the other)
*it does imply the other, otherwise it cant be called love.

- deep down a person can get used to pain and misery - to the point where pain and joy trade places (disagree, you cant get used to pain, you can shut down your emotions - which also shuts down joy)
Agree - does seem a bit cowardly to shut down your emotions because they're too painful
*its not cowardly to not be able to handle pain.. pain is not designed to be handled. pain can be ignored (along with all other feelings, but its not a sign of strength) or it can be alleviated.

Put yourself into good habit. Do what you desire but do not do which will bring bad result to you. Do things that you most like. As you mentioned the strong characters, you must act that way. Be strong to face life situations. Being strong will make you stronger for more challenges that will come. Be an ideal person that every person wish to be. Possessing the most valued character. A value of being a good person, good attitude, good etiquette, and any other good sides. Overcome your weaknesses. Motivate yourself to act the right way. Be compassionate. Do not put yourself to drinking while not solving the problem. Face the challenges that is given to you. Your family, God, and friends will be a good support.

*promotion removed*

Okay, sorry but... I have a feeling that last part is spam/virus. Seriously. A copy and paste on EVERY post of yours.

Senamian

- Yet some professionals forget to even put forth the effort themselves... Just because they are already "there" in life.
I think that "Professional" isn't a badge you have that you wear...it's something you have to earn and retain. You can be a professional today and lose it tomorrow if you don't put in the effort.

- Yet those with love, find that their lives are STILL worthless.
If the "love" is "real" then you may feel worthless...but the person who 'loves' knows your life is priceless.

- No, more of... When people have loyalty, they abuse the privileges of someone who is always there. But then there are those who are very loyal - but find their loyalty, is unwanted. Or unappreciated and unseen.
Agreed. Loyalty must be mutual. I wonder why we let it be one way so often.

- The world "stops moving" idea, kind of reminds me of such things as "stranded on an island with 5 people; how do you survive?" Some people may not know what to do, but once shown - will help. Then there are those who think they are "too good" to put effort in. If the world stopped moving, I almost half expect most people to think they were too good to help push - and leave it to the smaller numbers of people who pitch in.
Those who think they're 'too good' - are actually "not good enough". They think they shouldn't stoop to that level...I assume it's because they're weak - not strong enough. Would you demand that they help?

- But one strength only goes so far - bring in 2, 5, 10 people - then you have more than one strength, and can go farther. So all in all, the individual is as important as the group individuals make up.
Do you agree that: In the same way that a strong person can bring more strength to a group...a weak person can bring more weakness?

- But I know those (including myself) who do push themselves passed their limits, and in the end their mental and/or physical strength depletes so much so, that they end up falling harder at the end, then if they had taken a second to breathe. Though in the end there is strength, there's also still strength if one does not continuously push themselves. Sometimes it is nice to relax. I know that though a yea and a half ago, I did come out a lot stronger by pushing myself (more of survival than anything), I could have been just as strong if I had the willingness to accept people's help.
I don't know if I agree..I think you are stronger because you pushed yourself, rather than ask for help. You demanded success/victory from yourself. You can now face stronger challenges...if you accepted help you would have simply required more people to help you. Some things can't be done alone...but some can...they're just a little more painful - but that doesn't mean you shouldn't do them alone. A victory you earned yourself is always sweeter than one you must share. But then again perhaps that is being selfish...

- Tolerance is the aftermath of love depletion. Or, even the beginning when there really wasn't love there. Sure, the words I Love You may be said, but the feeling is gone. You tolerate them, but eventually that tolerance sours. That is why love HAS to be continuously refreshed. You see it in marriages. They have kids, they're too busy, they're too tired, they had a long day at work... Eventually the connection is frayed, and tolerance becomes the norm. But refresh the love, taking time to show said love - it doesn't have to "age like milk". And yes, it can be bottled up and locked away... Allowing you to forget about it, and even live without it - but to truly live... You need a lot more than aging tolerance. And love is not limited to couples either.
Makes a lot of sense. It almost seems like there is a scale:
Love <-> Tolerance <-> Loveless
Love is the ultimate goal - but it can get old. I suppose "love" is a lot like "professional" in that regard. You have to earn and keep earning it....or it goes away.

Regumika
What if you get dealt a bad hand...are you still expected to win the game? (i dont think winning is the objective here)
If you don't win, then you lose...I know I know...it's a pessimistic attitude - but be careful calling someone a pessimist - they may in-turn call you naive
*its not a game to be won, its not even a competition
It isn't? You sure? . I've always felt that it was...women want the best man...men want the best woman. Nobody wants to settle. We all love a winner and will not tolerate a loser. It's just a matter of perspective - what do I think is the best woman...will be different from what you think.

What if your biggest test has already come and gone? (take two... annnnd action!)
Second chances are a rare luxury
*unless you mean stuff like joining the military and failed -now on permanent record and you will never get another chance- then create another chance. its not always about choosing the best path, but creating a new path.
I never joined the army (although I probably should have). But now that you mention it...I'm 26 and happy with my career and too old to join the army. So in a sense - that is what I mean. I didn't care about sports when I was in Highschool - but looking back I would have liked to play football...I just never did. Now I don't have the time or the body to start. Time is something you never get back.

What if you're just here so that when someone else does something amazing...there's a crowd? (the recognition is the problem, why do you even need to be recognized by people who dont matter?)
I'd rather be the one recognized than the one who doesn't matter
*thats what i was warning against.. the 'need to be recognized' needs to be dissolved. life is not about being recognized. its all social status that doesnt matter - though people keep making it matter.
I agree. It's quite sad every time somebody wants a gold star for every little thing. I know what I did and I sleep well (or at least better) knowing that when a task came my way...I gave it my all and got the job done...I don't need other people to tell me that.

What if everything happens for a really stupid reason?? (you are the one to make it stupid)
To hell with fate? I can respect that - but what if fighting fate is like fighting gravity?
*no.. i was trying to imply 'perspective'.. it is only stupid if you make it stupid. if you dont think it is a stupid reason, then it isnt.
Interesting idea...but I don't know that you can control what you think. I always try to look beyond the surface...but if somebody asks me to do something and I decide it's stupid for reason A, B and C...and nobody can refute them...sorry, but it's stupid.

What if everyone you know just hangs out with you because they enjoy laughing at you behind your back? (you can laugh at anyone for anything. now you know they arent worth your time)
Is deciding people aren't worth it the same as deciding to be alone?
*take zombie apocalypse. it is better to continue living and fighting alone in hopes of other survivors than to just give up and die. technically yes you are alone.. but you havent given up yet.
I love that you went straight for zombie apocalypse (really! - walking dead fan? It's coming back! ). But I get your point. Giving up is never an option. My problem is that there are people out there who will hang out with you just so they can laugh behind your back. Agreed that these people aren't worth the time and effort...but it makes you paranoid that you're just being naive.

- one who doesn't love themselves loves others too much (no, that loving other's part is a bit fake in this case)
Is it? Emotions don't go away...you can't bottle them up inside for a lifetime - they eventually overflow into other parts of your life
*flow into other parts - perhaps. it being love (or loving/lovingly)? i don't think so. <-if you're talking about being kind and stuff.. kind is not the same as love.
I suppose you're right...emotions you are experiencing may flow into other parts of your life: If i'm having a good day at work...I'm happy...I'll definitely be nicer to people...if I'm not having a nice day I'm the gray man. I don't know that an emotion that is missing in your life will ooze into your life in other ways.

- not being strong enough is not an option (that's not the point. be as strong as you can be.. plus one)
Sounds complacent - don't be happy with how strong you are...what if someone wants to take something from you and they're stronger than you?
*i think we're talking about different 'strong' here.. and you missed the +1 part. but ill bite, physically weak? learn to compensate with other strengths. against brute strength? get a weapon. if they have a weapon too? then you two are equally strong.
I suppose +1 works. But I meant something more than physically strong. I meant stronger as a person (emotionally, mentally). Women don't just go for the most physically strong man...they will go for the man who is smarter and has stronger convictions. Never be satisfied with how strong you are, you can be proud, but not satisfied.


- hand-in-hand is not as strong as shoulder-to-shoulder (i think thats the same side of the coin)
Is loving each other more important than being willing to face the world together? - (no...i don't think one automatically implies the other)
*it does imply the other, otherwise it cant be called love.
Eh...maybe you're right. I would think that love would come first...love + time = willing to face the world together

- deep down a person can get used to pain and misery - to the point where pain and joy trade places (disagree, you cant get used to pain, you can shut down your emotions - which also shuts down joy)
Agree - does seem a bit cowardly to shut down your emotions because they're too painful
*its not cowardly to not be able to handle pain.. pain is not designed to be handled. pain can be ignored (along with all other feelings, but its not a sign of strength) or it can be alleviated.
Granted avoiding pain makes you rational. But what do you respect more:
a man who fights face to face and hand to hand and dies fighting? Or a man that sneaks into your bedroom and shoots you in your sleep? He avoided pain didn't he?

Perhaps that example is a bit extreme...but it's a thought I figured worth bringing up. I don't know...for me...fear is the worst prison in the world. I'll take pain over fear.

Thanks again guys for sharing your thoughts! If I owe you a penny for your thoughts...I'd owe you guys enough to buy you free drinks all night (if we ever meet ).

Cheers to you guys!

-I think that "Professional" isn't a badge you have that you wear...it's something you have to earn and retain. You can be a professional today and lose it tomorrow if you don't put in the effort.
That is true. Sadly some still "wear that badge", without continuing their efforts.

-If the "love" is "real" then you may feel worthless...but the person who 'loves' knows your life is priceless. I think it has to do with personal turmoil... As much as one can love another, if they have war raging inside of their minds, they don't realize what matters the most... Until it is gone.

-Agreed. Loyalty must be mutual. I wonder why we let it be one way so often.Some of us feel a need to please, and a desire to show who we are. Unfortunately you have some people who take advantage of that. You see it in friendships a lot - or at least, I do...Because I've come across those who I'll help through hell and back... But in my time of need, I'm on my own.

-Those who think they're 'too good' - are actually "not good enough". They think they shouldn't stoop to that level...I assume it's because they're weak - not strong enough. Would you demand that they help? Exactly. They assume they are better than the rest - when they are no more than equal. I would demand their help, but I wouldn't waste my time arguing with them Compromising, maybe.

-Do you agree that: In the same way that a strong person can bring more strength to a group...a weak person can bring more weakness? I'm not sure. I can relate this to personal experience, to which I can say yes they can... But they only really bring weakness because they compare themselves to others (the strong person bringing strength), and degrade themselves. And the group plays a part in how "weak" or "strong" each person is... By their reactions, behavior, etc. You work with someone's strength and weaknesses, you have someone who is willing to help and finds it rewarding!

-don't know if I agree..I think you are stronger because you pushed yourself, rather than ask for help. You demanded success/victory from yourself. You can now face stronger challenges...if you accepted help you would have simply required more people to help you. Some things can't be done alone...but some can...they're just a little more painful - but that doesn't mean you shouldn't do them alone. A victory you earned yourself is always sweeter than one you must share. But then again perhaps that is being selfish... It isn't selfish... But rather, pride. There must be a line between pride and self relying - but we tend to mash the two together, and refuse to ask for help or recieve helped that has been offered to us because we have pride.

-Makes a lot of sense. It almost seems like there is a scale:
Love <-> Tolerance <-> Loveless
Love is the ultimate goal - but it can get old. I suppose "love" is a lot like "professional" in that regard. You have to earn and keep earning it....or it goes away.
Exactly. Which is why people nowadays, who have tons of loopholes and escape routes in relationships, don't seem to last long in relationships: They stop trying.



****If it was always a penny for your thoughts... And you tossed your two cents in (a rip off IMO lol)... Now that we don't have pennies in circulation here does that mean our thoughts are worth more? A nickel for your thoughts? Toss your dimes in?

What if you get dealt a bad hand...are you still expected to win the game? (i dont think winning is the objective here)
If you don't win, then you lose...I know I know...it's a pessimistic attitude - but be careful calling someone a pessimist - they may in-turn call you naive
*its not a game to be won, its not even a competition
It isn't? You sure? . I've always felt that it was...women want the best man...men want the best woman. Nobody wants to settle. We all love a winner and will not tolerate a loser. It's just a matter of perspective - what do I think is the best woman...will be different from what you think.
as you said, 'best' is relative... well, i guess on a personal level it can be a game to be won. though what to you is winning might be considered a loss to another. ->if say your partner is the type that i would never consider for myself. BUT, i will stick to my opinion that life is not a game. there is nothing to win, or the possibility to lose.(except for giving up, but i dont think thats considered losing. its something else..)

What if your biggest test has already come and gone? (take two... annnnd action!)
Second chances are a rare luxury
*unless you mean stuff like joining the military and failed -now on permanent record and you will never get another chance- then create another chance. its not always about choosing the best path, but creating a new path.
I never joined the army (although I probably should have). But now that you mention it...I'm 26 and happy with my career and too old to join the army. So in a sense - that is what I mean. I didn't care about sports when I was in Highschool - but looking back I would have liked to play football...I just never did. Now I don't have the time or the body to start. Time is something you never get back.
truetrue. good examples... i would agree then yes.. there are things that you miss once its gone... but.. those are not 'tests' as the original question states. the 'test' is a continual thing, to see if you stop making choices, so keep creating new paths!

What if you're just here so that when someone else does something amazing...there's a crowd? (the recognition is the problem, why do you even need to be recognized by people who dont matter?)
I'd rather be the one recognized than the one who doesn't matter
*thats what i was warning against.. the 'need to be recognized' needs to be dissolved. life is not about being recognized. its all social status that doesnt matter - though people keep making it matter.
I agree. It's quite sad every time somebody wants a gold star for every little thing. I know what I did and I sleep well (or at least better) knowing that when a task came my way...I gave it my all and got the job done...I don't need other people to tell me that. is this case closed then? =p

What if everything happens for a really stupid reason?? (you are the one to make it stupid)
To hell with fate? I can respect that - but what if fighting fate is like fighting gravity?
*no.. i was trying to imply 'perspective'.. it is only stupid if you make it stupid. if you dont think it is a stupid reason, then it isnt.
Interesting idea...but I don't know that you can control what you think. I always try to look beyond the surface...but if somebody asks me to do something and I decide it's stupid for reason A, B and C...and nobody can refute them...sorry, but it's stupid.
welllllll that basically means that there are multiple people that agree on the same thing... even if everyone agreed on something, that doesnt make it a fact. i still stand by that it is all perspective

What if everyone you know just hangs out with you because they enjoy laughing at you behind your back? (you can laugh at anyone for anything. now you know they arent worth your time)
Is deciding people aren't worth it the same as deciding to be alone?
*take zombie apocalypse. it is better to continue living and fighting alone in hopes of other survivors than to just give up and die. technically yes you are alone.. but you havent given up yet.
I love that you went straight for zombie apocalypse (really! - walking dead fan? It's coming back! ). But I get your point. Giving up is never an option. My problem is that there are people out there who will hang out with you just so they can laugh behind your back. Agreed that these people aren't worth the time and effort...but it makes you paranoid that you're just being naive.
zomebies was the best example i could think of! and yes. i like walking dead =) being paranoid will only keep you down. think about it this way... be the bigger man and give them the benefit of the doubt, and you can feel good about being the bigger man. just dont brag!

- one who doesn't love themselves loves others too much (no, that loving other's part is a bit fake in this case)
Is it? Emotions don't go away...you can't bottle them up inside for a lifetime - they eventually overflow into other parts of your life
*flow into other parts - perhaps. it being love (or loving/lovingly)? i don't think so. <-if you're talking about being kind and stuff.. kind is not the same as love.
I suppose you're right...emotions you are experiencing may flow into other parts of your life: If i'm having a good day at work...I'm happy...I'll definitely be nicer to people...if I'm not having a nice day I'm the gray man. I don't know that an emotion that is missing in your life will ooze into your life in other ways.
i think this got derailed just a bit - i think.. and.. i think i lost my train of thought on this one.. >_>

- not being strong enough is not an option (that's not the point. be as strong as you can be.. plus one)
Sounds complacent - don't be happy with how strong you are...what if someone wants to take something from you and they're stronger than you?
*i think we're talking about different 'strong' here.. and you missed the +1 part. but ill bite, physically weak? learn to compensate with other strengths. against brute strength? get a weapon. if they have a weapon too? then you two are equally strong.
I suppose +1 works. But I meant something more than physically strong. I meant stronger as a person (emotionally, mentally). Women don't just go for the most physically strong man...they will go for the man who is smarter and has stronger convictions. Never be satisfied with how strong you are, you can be proud, but not satisfied.
while yes, women (or men) like emotionally/mentally strong partners, often times it is not the actual strength but the -efforts- to obtain strength that are attractive. think this, what do you prefer - someone that is already strong but you dont know how much effort they will put into any obstacle or someone that is not so strong but shows you that they will try their hardest every time?

- hand-in-hand is not as strong as shoulder-to-shoulder (i think thats the same side of the coin)
Is loving each other more important than being willing to face the world together? - (no...i don't think one automatically implies the other)
*it does imply the other, otherwise it cant be called love.
Eh...maybe you're right. I would think that love would come first...love + time = willing to face the world together
in my opinion.. time required in this case can be shortened or lengthened, depending on the two parties. but i would say that when it is definitively considered hand in hand.. shoulder to shoulder comes as a package deal.

- deep down a person can get used to pain and misery - to the point where pain and joy trade places (disagree, you cant get used to pain, you can shut down your emotions - which also shuts down joy)
Agree - does seem a bit cowardly to shut down your emotions because they're too painful
*its not cowardly to not be able to handle pain.. pain is not designed to be handled. pain can be ignored (along with all other feelings, but its not a sign of strength) or it can be alleviated.
Granted avoiding pain makes you rational. But what do you respect more:
a man who fights face to face and hand to hand and dies fighting? Or a man that sneaks into your bedroom and shoots you in your sleep? He avoided pain didn't he? Perhaps that example is a bit extreme...but it's a thought I figured worth bringing up. I don't know...for me...fear is the worst prison in the world. I'll take pain over fear.
i think i might have not expressed properly (i have that issue). you are not supposed to tolerate pain. to tolerate pain is to tolerate feeling as a whole. and when you tolerate feeling, you tolerate joy/love/everyotheremotion. it is completely natural to shrink at pain. the hardest part is to find someone that will alleviate your pain (mend your wounds and not hurt you further), because you have to keep yourself open to pain (the fear of pain?) for that to happen. cant feel the warmth of fire if you have 4 layers on trying to keep the cold out.

i have to say.. this is a very interesting style of discussion. and i have to commend to you for being so, so objective. bias is one of the biggest thing ruining the society. and your objectiveness is what is making this such a healthy exchange of opinions.

free drinks? i wont complain, but my preference is food, just in case we meet =p

Sometimes you just got to put aside logic, and do what feels right!
You can never be a perfectionist. So don't try being one. The closer you are towards being a perfectionist, the worse your life is. So just follow the flow and utilise what you have currently Make yourself happy.
Don't over think ! It's bad for your health.

Senamian

-If the "love" is "real" then you may feel worthless...but the person who 'loves' knows your life is priceless. I think it has to do with personal turmoil... As much as one can love another, if they have war raging inside of their minds, they don't realize what matters the most... Until it is gone.
Well met...
You know old that saying - "I'm not a fighter...I'm a lover"...those of us that have those wars raging in our head...perhaps we're not lovers...we're fighters...

-Those who think they're 'too good' - are actually "not good enough". They think they shouldn't stoop to that level...I assume it's because they're weak - not strong enough. Would you demand that they help? Exactly. They assume they are better than the rest - when they are no more than equal. I would demand their help, but I wouldn't waste my time arguing with them Compromising, maybe.
I wonder if people are difficult just so that you'll let them off the hook...to make you not want to argue with them. I don't know if it's fair for someone who fancies themselves 'better-than-you' to force you to compromise...it almost validates their high opinion of themselves...and us. Maybe we need to argue with them...they may not be worth the breath..but YOU are.

-Do you agree that: In the same way that a strong person can bring more strength to a group...a weak person can bring more weakness? I'm not sure. I can relate this to personal experience, to which I can say yes they can... But they only really bring weakness because they compare themselves to others (the strong person bringing strength), and degrade themselves. And the group plays a part in how "weak" or "strong" each person is... By their reactions, behavior, etc. You work with someone's strength and weaknesses, you have someone who is willing to help and finds it rewarding!
I like that..."work with someone's strength and weaknesses". It's the mark of a good leader...setting high standards for the individual sounds more like the mentality of a team-Member not a team-Leader. "

-don't know if I agree..I think you are stronger because you pushed yourself, rather than ask for help. You demanded success/victory from yourself. You can now face stronger challenges...if you accepted help you would have simply required more people to help you. Some things can't be done alone...but some can...they're just a little more painful - but that doesn't mean you shouldn't do them alone. A victory you earned yourself is always sweeter than one you must share. But then again perhaps that is being selfish... It isn't selfish... But rather, pride. There must be a line between pride and self relying - but we tend to mash the two together, and refuse to ask for help or receive helped that has been offered to us because we have pride.
All too true...for myself especially. Although I'm not fully convinced that pride is a bad thing. Putting pride into your work and your approach to things - usually - can only make them better. Even in a relationship...someone who doesn't care can be very frustrating to deal with. On the other hand - I think we all need to have someone bring us back down to earth at times...

-Makes a lot of sense. It almost seems like there is a scale:
Love <-> Tolerance <-> Loveless
Love is the ultimate goal - but it can get old. I suppose "love" is a lot like "professional" in that regard. You have to earn and keep earning it....or it goes away.
Exactly. Which is why people nowadays, who have tons of loopholes and escape routes in relationships, don't seem to last long in relationships: They stop trying.
'Escape routes'...I know what you mean...what a crying shame...some people have no problem getting into relationships...and eventually try to find 'Loopholes' to get themselves out. Do you think that when people stop trying...they also stop caring...or do they still care but just don't show it?

We'll have to run a tab for how much these ideas are worth...it's definitely getting up there

Regumika

as you said, 'best' is relative... well, i guess on a personal level it can be a game to be won. though what to you is winning might be considered a loss to another. ->if say your partner is the type that i would never consider for myself. BUT, i will stick to my opinion that life is not a game. there is nothing to win, or the possibility to lose.(except for giving up, but i dont think thats considered losing. its something else..)
What is giving up if not choosing to lose?

truetrue. good examples... i would agree then yes.. there are things that you miss once its gone... but.. those are not 'tests' as the original question states. the 'test' is a continual thing, to see if you stop making choices, so keep creating new paths!
I agree. The idea that "I've already missed my big shot at a wonderful life" can only lead to giving up and regret

welllllll that basically means that there are multiple people that agree on the same thing... even if everyone agreed on something, that doesn't make it a fact. i still stand by that it is all perspective
I agree...it's all about perspective...but again, shifting perspective isn't always easy. I guess what I was trying to get at...sometimes life seems like 100 people in a room with 99 chairs - no rhyme or reason...it's just the way it is. And somebody's going to have to sit on the floor, while everyone else sits on the chairs. When you're the one on the floor, it just seems like one big joke...

being paranoid will only keep you down. think about it this way... be the bigger man and give them the benefit of the doubt, and you can feel good about being the bigger man. just dont brag!
I agree that paranoia is unhealthy...but if I may borrow an analogy from the last point...being the bigger man can often leave you without a chair . I suppose CONSTANTLY being the bigger man is no good...another one of those 'delicate balance' issues I guess

while yes, women (or men) like emotionally/mentally strong partners, often times it is not the actual strength but the -efforts- to obtain strength that are attractive. think this, what do you prefer - someone that is already strong but you dont know how much effort they will put into any obstacle or someone that is not so strong but shows you that they will try their hardest every time?
Good point...although I'm having trouble deciding...there's character in never giving up...but these days...I wonder how important character is to others...i get scared that character is only important to ourselves...

you are not supposed to tolerate pain. to tolerate pain is to tolerate feeling as a whole. and when you tolerate feeling, you tolerate joy/love/everyotheremotion. it is completely natural to shrink at pain. the hardest part is to find someone that will alleviate your pain (mend your wounds and not hurt you further), because you have to keep yourself open to pain (the fear of pain?) for that to happen. cant feel the warmth of fire if you have 4 layers on trying to keep the cold out.
"You can't feel the warmth of the fire if you have 4 layers on trying to keep the cold out"..........I do believe I've been check-mated . Well met. Building up a tolerance to pain is building up a tolerance to emotion...until you eventually become an emotionless creatures...in-capable of love as you are of pain...scary (for me at least )

Sorry for being slow as molasses about replying! Again it's truly enlightening reading all of these. It's shocking (and sometimes scary) to walk down uncharted avenue's of thought...all inspired by your words. I've never talked to people I know about this kind of stuff...you guys/this forum are truly amazing.