shy people, do not join dating sites

So some guys on here say they can message 20 women on a dating site, and get 19 responses. This is extremely foreign to me, and I don't know what you're doing right, but it's almost unfair.

I can message 50 and get about 7, about 5 of those are just the one line response and nothing, about 2 I can go for 4-5 more messages and then it's over with "no thanks."

I have been asking here and elsewhere relentlessly, the men are telling me to bulk up and take my shirt off (which is NOT me), the women will not offer me any ideas at all other than be myself and then everything will be fine.

I'm about to get off the OKStupid site completely, even being on the dating site is not me, I am not the type to advertise myself. I don't believe I should be selling myself like a brand, and I don't believe it is even ethical for me, or anyone, to search through hundreds of profiles as if they were trading cards with different stats for strength, beauty, and intelligence, and then pick out what you want. If I wanted goods, I'd go to the market.

A marketplace for a "special someone" is an extremely twisted idea IMHO. To say it's not a marketplace would be to tell me "just be yourself and replies will pour in", that is NOT the case here. After 3 weeks of being there, the only thing that's happened is what little confidence I had, has gone further down the drain.

I guess the point is, I came here and other places asking what can a super-shy person do, if they want some kind of relationship, and inevitably they all say "dating site." Partly this message is for those people who make this suggestion. in the future, when someone is shy or a loser, it's a better idea that you tell these "shy loser guys" just to give up and stare at the wall.. than to tell them to join a dating site. This "conventional wisdom" must end. The suggestion causes more pain than it is worth.

If I thought I was good looking before, what about now? Now, I'm thinking my looks are the problem, and I need to start thinking I'm simply unattractive. Is this what a "shy loser" needs? Not really.

I want to ask you this question. Do you love yourself?

Chris 2 said:

I want to ask you this question. Do you love yourself?

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The first thing I thought when I read this was, I love myself so much that I am well acquainted with Rosy Palms.

The answer is, the OP is right. Some guys just don't have luck. It's either that we don't know how to write a profile, or don't know how to write a message, or that we just take bad profile pics. I've seen lots of guys stressing over not getting dates on POF, and when I look at their profile pic, I can see why. It's unflattering.

Man, dating sites.

Sausage-fests.

Seriously, don't even fresia with them unless you're looking for a quick tap. Especially PoF, that place is a pit.

LeaningIntoTheMuse said:

Chris 2 said:

I want to ask you this question. Do you love yourself?

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The first thing I thought when I read this was, I love myself so much that I am well acquainted with Rosy Palms.

The answer is, the OP is right. Some guys just don't have luck. It's either that we don't know how to write a profile, or don't know how to write a message, or that we just take bad profile pics. I've seen lots of guys stressing over not getting dates on POF, and when I look at their profile pic, I can see why. It's unflattering.

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Hmmm....why does it have to be just for the reasons you've listed?
Maybe it's a personality someone doesn't care for. Maybe it's something that has more to do with them and not you. And by "you" I mean people in general - not you specifically.
Also, in reference to someone's earlier post about guys suggesting that he bulk up and take a pic with his shirt off...
Please don't - I doesn't send a very good message IMO. I think a lot of women will agree with me on that.

EveWasFramed said:

Hmmm....why does it have to be just for the reasons you've listed?
Maybe it's a personality someone doesn't care for. Maybe it's something that has more to do with them and not you. And by "you" I mean people in general - not you specifically.

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Agreed.

Batman, the bolded, what I said before too, remember?

LeaningIntoTheMuse said:

The first thing I thought when I read this was, I love myself so much that I am well acquainted with Rosy Palms.

The answer is, the OP is right. Some guys just don't have luck. It's either that we don't know how to write a profile, or don't know how to write a message, or that we just take bad profile pics. I've seen lots of guys stressing over not getting dates on POF, and when I look at their profile pic, I can see why. It's unflattering.

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The exact profile pic I put up there, personally I consider to be one of my better ones. I also put up another good picture where I'm smiling. Having shown both these photos to women on the net before (for instance, girls I've chatted with randomly), I have gotten good responses about half the time. So I have reason to believe I'm half-decent looking and the photos are good enough.

I don't just base the opinion on the Net. Several times girls in real life have indicated they thought I was attractive. So I could say these women online and in real life were truthful, which is what I usually believe (although now I'm re-evaluating that.) Or I could say they were all lying for some strange reason, although that seems unlikely right?

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khaoz_ferox said:

Man, dating sites.

Sausage-fests.

Seriously, don't even fresia with them unless you're looking for a quick tap. Especially PoF, that place is a pit.

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You don't mean I have to be ripped with my shirt off to get anywhere, do you? I hope not. The site I'm on is OKCupid, anyway.

Without assuming what I'm looking for, what's wrong with a quick tap in your opinion? Would it make me to shallow if I said that's fine with me?

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EveWasFramed said:

Hmmm....why does it have to be just for the reasons you've listed?
Maybe it's a personality someone doesn't care for. Maybe it's something that has more to do with them and not you. And by "you" I mean people in general - not you specifically.
Also, in reference to someone's earlier post about guys suggesting that he bulk up and take a pic with his shirt off...
Please don't - I doesn't send a very good message IMO. I think a lot of women will agree with me on that.

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Then, what's up with them? If you say one cannot generalize women because they're all individuals, then why am I being systematically rejected by all women on there? It certainly looks like a collective problem at this point, as if they are all finding the same few things wrong with me. And I *demand* to know what these things are. I'm still not getting any answers.

It's almost as if women are concerned that if they said what's wrong with me, it would confirm stereotypical views about what women want, and that's an area that's so controversial it must be avoided at all times. I mean, this is crazy. Girls are just offering *nothing* at all about what I should be doing differently. I haven't had one person anywhere say "let's see your profile," or anything like that. It's like I could be telling you I put up a picture of sliced ham as my only picture, and you'd be saying "that's not the problem," etc.

You don't mean I have to be ripped with my shirt off to get anywhere, do you? I hope not. The site I'm on is OKCupid, anyway.

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No, I mean there is an abundance of wang so you are always thrown into a competition which can seriously damage your self-esteem, and for what? Not winning a game of Prettiest Picture? Not worth it, man. Stick to offline, let them get to know the real you. Looks ain't honeysuckle in that arena.

Without assuming what I'm looking for, what's wrong with a quick tap in your opinion? Would it make me to shallow if I said that's fine with me?

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Hey if that's what you want, who am I to judge?

Batman55 cheers to you buddy.

Props for not wanting to be your own commercial.
Props for not wanting to treat women like products in a catalogue.
And props for being smart/realistic enough to know that life/love don't always work out nicely for everyone like the world says it will.

Do you have to get ripped and take your shirt off for dating success? No...but I guarantee that it would help...a lot, and anybody (woman or man) who says any different is lying to you through their teeth/keyboard.

That doesn't mean give up, it just means that the righteous and fair strategy will lose the game....if you wanna win, you have no choice but to become what you don't respect.

For what it's worth you have my respect...if you're ever in Toronto...first shot of bourbon is on yours truly.

1000lifetimes said:

Do you have to get ripped and take your shirt off for dating success? No...but I guarantee that it would help...a lot, and anybody (woman or man) who says any different is lying to you through their teeth/keyboard.

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This won't appeal to all, maybe some or maybe majority of women on dating sites, I don't know. But I know it won't appeal to me, if I was a girl on a dating site looking for someone to date. To me, it's more than just looks or getting ripped and showing pictures of your naked self. In fact, I don't find that appealing at all. So, it doesn't appeal to all women on dating sites or anywhere else for the matter, I'm pretty sure.

And Batman, you know better that I don't lie about this, so no, I'm not lying through my keyboard or through my teeth.

ladyforsaken said:

1000lifetimes said:

Do you have to get ripped and take your shirt off for dating success? No...but I guarantee that it would help...a lot, and anybody (woman or man) who says any different is lying to you through their teeth/keyboard.

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This won't appeal to all, maybe some or maybe majority of women on dating sites, I don't know. But I know it won't appeal to me, if I was a girl on a dating site looking for someone to date. To me, it's more than just looks or getting ripped and showing pictures of your naked self. In fact, I don't find that appealing at all. So, it doesn't appeal to all women on dating sites or anywhere else for the matter, I'm pretty sure.

And Batman, you know better that I don't lie about this, so no, I'm not lying through my keyboard or through my teeth.

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Ladyforsaken, I didn't mean to suggest that it wold work on ALL women...but a six pack would work on some...probably a most.

Yours is a refreshingly enlightened attitude...and I definitely think up you're being sincere...but unfortunately...I get worried that your opinion not shared by the majority . And I think that women browsing profiles on dating sites would probably click more on the 6 pack abs than the long paragraphs about a charming personality

1000lifetimes said:

Ladyforsaken, I didn't mean to suggest that it wold work on ALL women...but a six pack would work on some...probably a most.

Yours is a refreshingly enlightened attitude...and I definitely think up you're being sincere...but unfortunately...I get worried that your opinion not shared by the majority . And I think that women browsing profiles on dating sites would probably click more on the 6 pack abs than the long paragraphs about a charming personality

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I understand.. and I know what you mean. It's unfortunate... what is this world coming to
I have always been the odd one out among the ladies around me.. so, yeah, you're probably right about the majority. Still, I hope that doesn't dampen Batman's spirits in finding a woman who'd be interested in him for the way he is.

ladyforsaken said:

1000lifetimes said:

Do you have to get ripped and take your shirt off for dating success? No...but I guarantee that it would help...a lot, and anybody (woman or man) who says any different is lying to you through their teeth/keyboard.

Click to expand...

This won't appeal to all, maybe some or maybe majority of women on dating sites, I don't know. But I know it won't appeal to me, if I was a girl on a dating site looking for someone to date. To me, it's more than just looks or getting ripped and showing pictures of your naked self. In fact, I don't find that appealing at all. So, it doesn't appeal to all women on dating sites or anywhere else for the matter, I'm pretty sure.

And Batman, you know better that I don't lie about this, so no, I'm not lying through my keyboard or through my teeth.

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It doesn't appeal to me either, Lady F. Not at all.
But according to the previous poster, we must be liars.
Personally, I'd be more likely to dismiss a profile if it had a shirtless guy on it.

I read an article some while back that analyzed responses to profile pictures online based on gender(I don't remember if it only pertained to dating sites or not). I remember that men and women preferred different types of pictures based on factors such as smiling/not smiling/other facial expression, eye contact/no eye contact, camera angle etc. It was a very interesting piece from a psychological perspective. Men seemed to like women looking at them; women seemed to like men looking away. Oh, and showing skin also came off as much more favorable, if I recall correctly.

EveWasFramed said:

ladyforsaken said:

1000lifetimes said:

Do you have to get ripped and take your shirt off for dating success? No...but I guarantee that it would help...a lot, and anybody (woman or man) who says any different is lying to you through their teeth/keyboard.

Click to expand...

This won't appeal to all, maybe some or maybe majority of women on dating sites, I don't know. But I know it won't appeal to me, if I was a girl on a dating site looking for someone to date. To me, it's more than just looks or getting ripped and showing pictures of your naked self. In fact, I don't find that appealing at all. So, it doesn't appeal to all women on dating sites or anywhere else for the matter, I'm pretty sure.

And Batman, you know better that I don't lie about this, so no, I'm not lying through my keyboard or through my teeth.

Click to expand...

It doesn't appeal to me either, Lady F. Not at all.
But according to the previous poster, we must be liars.
Personally, I'd be more likely to dismiss a profile if it had a shirtless guy on it.

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Gah! You're not liars for saying you're not into Scruffy ripped fireman type guys! (Not automatically anyways ). However, If you said that most women on dating sites aren't into it...and looking like that wouldn't get you more responses...THEN I'd call you a liar (or naive)

I'm not an expert by any means...but I have to assume that you ladies (who refreshingly are more interested in the beautiful mind instead of the chiseled jaw) are the exception...not the rule on dating sites.

1000lifetimes said:

...but I have to assume that you ladies (who refreshingly are more interested in the beautiful mind instead of the chiseled jaw) are the exception...not the rule on dating sites.

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hmmm... I might be willing to concede that point.

1000lifetimes said:

And I think that women browsing profiles on dating sites would probably click more on the 6 pack abs than the long paragraphs about a charming personality

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Good and bad thing there - I mean yeah some that make that choice are shallow, just like some men, but also there's a will and expression of androsexuality there in that fact that I find absolutely fabulous.

1000lifetimes said:

Batman55 cheers to you buddy.

Props for not wanting to be your own commercial.
Props for not wanting to treat women like products in a catalogue.
And props for being smart/realistic enough to know that life/love don't always work out nicely for everyone like the world says it will.

Do you have to get ripped and take your shirt off for dating success? No...but I guarantee that it would help...a lot, and anybody (woman or man) who says any different is lying to you through their teeth/keyboard.

That doesn't mean give up, it just means that the righteous and fair strategy will lose the game....if you wanna win, you have no choice but to become what you don't respect.

For what it's worth you have my respect...if you're ever in Toronto...first shot of bourbon is on yours truly.

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Well then it looks like I give up and will leave the dating site in the dust, where it belongs. I think all dating sites are a cesspool anyway.

And I will not become what I don't respect. It's true that I'm lifting weights more than I used to and I will continue. But does not mean I'm going to eventually "metamorphose" and wear tight shirts with sleeves that cling to biceps? No, because I would look ridiculous, that's just not me! And neither is wearing leather jackets with 100 buttons of different rock bands and things I like, either. Neither is acting like I'm important.

If the capitalistic/commercial aspect of western culture bleeds into "dating" that much, that such things are a requirement to meet a girl, then I'll just have to decide to never look for a woman (it sounds like they're terribly judgmental), or I'll just have to jump off a bridge.

Once again, the pattern continues. The men seem to suggest getting ripped and shirtless. The women say you might not need to, but offer few other ideas. There really is nothing you can tell me at all about what to write in a profile?

No ideas on how to write a message that women will reply to? None?

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murmi97 said:

1000lifetimes said:

And I think that women browsing profiles on dating sites would probably click more on the 6 pack abs than the long paragraphs about a charming personality

Click to expand...

Good and bad thing there - I mean yeah some that make that choice are shallow, just like some men, but also there's a will and expression of androsexuality there in that fact that I find absolutely fabulous.

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I don't even understand that. Can you be more plain?

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EveWasFramed said:

It doesn't appeal to me either, Lady F. Not at all.
But according to the previous poster, we must be liars.
Personally, I'd be more likely to dismiss a profile if it had a shirtless guy on it.

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I will show you a shirtless photo if you're interested. PM me for details.

Even trying PUA style techniques in a bar sounds better than that, at least there's some amusement value, instead of sitting in front of computer obsessing over every word in your profile, hoping and checking regularly for messages. Could there be a more lonely experience?

To focus on it seems ridiculous, women aren't seeing you as a dynamic individual, just a probably average looking face staring back at them with a bio that tries not to sound desperate. Why would they settle for you over the tens of thousands of other such men? Women have the pick on those sites for whatever reasons, even if you're okay looking it's likely you just don't meet the long lists of criteria.

I thought people did that because there might be a (small) chance for something to come of it, when guys expect to meet women that way it's genuinely sad.

EveWasFramed said:

1000lifetimes said:

...but I have to assume that you ladies (who refreshingly are more interested in the beautiful mind instead of the chiseled jaw) are the exception...not the rule on dating sites.

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hmmm... I might be willing to concede that point.

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*nods*