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Batman55

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Is there anyone else like me who either does not understand, or simply just doesn't give a crap about.. this "group dynamics" or "social politics" stuff?? I'm really tired of it, and at the same time, I'm bothered by the fact that I seemingly cannot play the "game" and feel left out as a result.

It is everywhere, both online and offline. Offline it's basically like.. there's a specific "code" you're supposed to use, depending on the social environment surrounding you at a specific time. It is hard to describe, but basically here is I how I observe it if you're in a group of mostly same-age people: the code dictates you should act like you're something special, you should pretend you want to climb the social ladder (even if you really don't), you should treat specific people well and certain "less desirable" people with less regard. I've seen the last example there specifically happening in work environments: for example, when I was the only one who would treat specific people nicely. In most cases these were women of a different race than the majority, and it seemed the other women treated them worse than the men.

As for online: in forums, for example. It seems if you want to get some respect, it's more like this: the code dictates you should engage in witty banter often, especially with 1-2 line posts that fill up the entire place, and often have silly pictures attached to them. If you do this enough, then for some reason you start to become more respected by the whole forum, and even desirable. On the other hand, if you post more practically or even if you post often but don't use any "wit," it's just like you're kinda "half-present." It's like the voice you're typing with is barely heard, or ascribed less value than others, or whatever.

It bothers me, because it seems like I'm missing out on a lot for not playing these social politics--which to me seems like a lot of silly and unnecessary nonsense (although I suppose it can also be fun and diverting for others.) I'm sick of always feeling like an outcast, but also really do not want to bother with this stuff... because I have no natural desire to do so, and/or don't really understand it. Has anyone else ever felt the way I do about this?
 
I don't do well in groups. Even when I get along with everyone in a group, it's just not my preferred social encounter. I do better in one-on-one encounters.

I have loads of experience going against the grain and going my own way rather than following the crowd. If people have labeled me an outcast for not conforming to social pressure, so be it. Better to be an outcast and alone, I think, than be someone I'm not for the sake of social climbing. Or, for any reason, for that matter.

As for the online group dynamic, it's no different than any other group situation. The more you are seen by the online group, the more people will get to know you. But the key to being accepted by ANY group is we have to be agreeable to that group. If the group doesn't like what we say, we'll be shunned. That's just common sense.

If we want to be in a group, we'll have to follow their rules. If we don't like the rules, we should either get the group to like us so much that we can change the rules from within that group, or we should just get out of the group and maybe form one of our own where we can make the rules.
 
In the first instance you described - offline, that kinda fades out as you and others around you mature (Although sometimes not). The environment you describe sound really like a school playground, though I suppose society can be compared to that in many ways. More mature people would be more bothered about socialize and having a conversation than the 'social ladder', but I agree that society seems like this.

In the second instance gaining 'respect' may not be the right term. People who have a humorous personality are bound to attract people, rather than someone who takes things seriously; no matter how long you've been on the forum.

With all that being said I don't think anybody's playing the game, most people just act the way they are (though I admit some people might try 'too hard') and come online looking for a bit of fun & banter. Even for this forum just because you're lonely doesn't mean you're supposed to be serious and sad all the time.
 
9006 said:
With all that being said I don't think anybody's playing the game, most people just act the way they are (though I admit some people might try 'too hard') and come online looking for a bit of fun & banter. Even for this forum just because you're lonely doesn't mean you're supposed to be serious and sad all the time.

After hitting send, I realized I didn't articulate things as well as I could have. But you seem to react to my post as if I'm some kind of simpleton or something, eh? How's that for "disrespect"? :p

Anyway, let's assume you weren't acting in any kind of condescending manner, and there's a very good chance you weren't. As for your last sentence in the quote, that's not really what I meant. The problem I am talking about is not about adopting a "tone" appropriate for the subject matter of a forum, like this one. I'm generally the same way everywhere. So it's more about two issues I have here: 1) coming up with an appropriately witty response (emphasis on the "wit") at the right time 2) either a lack of ability to doing this, or lack of desire. And, all forums are like this, not just this one.

I'm just frustrated. Whatever "it" is that draws people to you, or whatever it is that helps you fit within a group, I don't seem to have it. I'm even an outcast among outcasts. I feel all these things fall into something you can call "social politics" because it affects the way you are treated, what you can and cannot say, and so on. I guess I just didn't articulate this too well in the first post BUT, it is there online and offline for me, so I think this is just the same exact thing simply in different environments.


Case said:
As for the online group dynamic, it's no different than any other group situation. The more you are seen by the online group, the more people will get to know you. But the key to being accepted by ANY group is we have to be agreeable to that group. If the group doesn't like what we say, we'll be shunned. That's just common sense.

Well, if I look at from my own personal perspective: I don't think I've offended many or broken too many rules or burnt any bridges here. Not that I'm aware of.

I just haven't been witty. That is my only crime. But I've committed that crime in at least 10 different forums, probably. And the punishment is always being "left out." To adapt would mean "forcing it," and I don't want to spend my time communicating in a style that's not my natural way.

Lightening up and sharing more about my personal life, likes and dislikes, could help, I guess. But that's not quite me either... :club:
 
It's probably not a deliberate clique/exclusion thing, rather your comments are pessimistic in outlook and some people don't know what to say to all that "negativity", or how to relate to someone with a more analytical writing style.
 
Batman55 said:
It is everywhere, both online and offline. Offline it's basically like.. there's a specific "code" you're supposed to use, depending on the social environment surrounding you at a specific time. It is hard to describe, but basically here is I how I observe it if you're in a group of mostly same-age people: the code dictates you should act like you're something special, you should pretend you want to climb the social ladder (even if you really don't), you should treat specific people well and certain "less desirable" people with less regard. I've seen the last example there specifically happening in work environments: for example, when I was the only one who would treat specific people nicely. In most cases these were women of a different race than the majority, and it seemed the other women treated them worse than the men.
I've noticed this and I normally don't play along. I do what I do and say what I say and that's it. I don't conform unless there is a specific reason or strategy to do so. Does it make feel left out like you said? Sure, sometimes. But I've also met many like-minded people, who also see past the "social politics" and we became good co-workers/friends.

Batman55 said:
It bothers me, because it seems like I'm missing out on a lot for not playing these social politics--which to me seems like a lot of silly and unnecessary nonsense (although I suppose it can also be fun and diverting for others.) I'm sick of always feeling like an outcast, but also really do not want to bother with this stuff... because I have no natural desire to do so, and/or don't really understand it. Has anyone else ever felt the way I do about this?
Why do you feel left out for not participating in something that seems pointless and elementary to you? On one hand I understand that by not participating it feels like you're missing out on a lot. On the other hand though if you do participate you are missing out on yourself. You essentially become something you despise.

Sports come to mind actually. I've thought about getting into sports to simply be able to have something to talk about with other people. (My topics of interest are not shared by many people I see day to day) However, after going over the idea again I realized that I have absolutely no interest in sports and the idea of trying to get into them simply to feel "part of the group" was ridiculous.
 
Batman55 said:
After hitting send, I realized I didn't articulate things as well as I could have. But you seem to react to my post as if I'm some kind of simpleton or something, eh? How's that for "disrespect"? :p

Anyway, let's assume you weren't acting in any kind of condescending manner, and there's a very good chance you weren't. As for your last sentence in the quote, that's not really what I meant. The problem I am talking about is not about adopting a "tone" appropriate for the subject matter of a forum, like this one. I'm generally the same way everywhere. So it's more about two issues I have here: 1) coming up with an appropriately witty response (emphasis on the "wit") at the right time 2) either a lack of ability to doing this, or lack of desire. And, all forums are like this, not just this one.

I'm just frustrated. Whatever "it" is that draws people to you, or whatever it is that helps you fit within a group, I don't seem to have it. I'm even an outcast among outcasts. I feel all these things fall into something you can call "social politics" because it affects the way you are treated, what you can and cannot say, and so on. I guess I just didn't articulate this too well in the first post BUT, it is there online and offline for me, so I think this is just the same exact thing simply in different environments.

You've already admitted to being an outcast due to lack of the 'necessary' social tone, but I think it's more about the pessimistic attitude you seem to have. You call it social politics but really it's common sense. People are generally drawn to people who they can relate to, can have a joke with, share interests or likes. The fact that you point out this social code shows your ability to over analyze this situation placing it in a negative category (like the initial response to my first reply) when in fact it's not like that at all, you seem to WANT to be in a group yet not want to change anything to do this - which is fine, because why should you, right?

The problem is that you cannot expect people to be drawn to you if you're just not related to them naturally; there is no code or tone, it's just socializing and people do it many different ways. Accept that people are different and nothing's ever going to be perfectly matched; weather it's 50/50, 80/20 or even 90/10. I have friends I'm not 100% compatible with as I'm sure vise versa, yet compromisation and the ability to apply effort makes the friendship work - even more so in a group.
 
Yeah there are some things in a social situation you just don't do and some things you should do. But they're usually just things to keep the situation pleasant. The stuff you describe isn't really necessary or some kind of code but rather just some things you may have observed. I'm not verry witty (especially these days) but I can still post things that are meaningful. Everyone isn't Stephen Fry and that's not necessarily a bad thing. You can still be yourself and have fun. Now if you find yourself getting called out on something and answer with silence then things could get awkward. But yeah all that stuff 9006 said about compromise. :)
 
ardour said:
It's probably not a deliberate clique/exclusion thing, rather your comments are pessimistic in outlook and some people don't know what to say to all that "negativity", or how to relate to someone with a more analytical writing style.

Actually I thought I had been improving with the pessimism at times, it's certainly not in my every post. But at the same time, there's a lot of that kind of thing around here anyway, so... I do not feel this is the whole problem.

"Analytical" writing style, though... that is me. If I was more intuitive about how to respond to people, I don't think I'd be so analytical in the first place, eh? ;)


Dr. Strangelove said:
Why do you feel left out for not participating in something that seems pointless and elementary to you? On one hand I understand that by not participating it feels like you're missing out on a lot. On the other hand though if you do participate you are missing out on yourself. You essentially become something you despise.

It's a case of... six of one, half a dozen of the other.. y'know?
 
Our Dark night wrote .. It seems if you want to get some respect, it's more like this: the code dictates you should engage in witty banter often, especially with 1-2 line posts that fill up the entire place, and often have silly pictures attached to them. If you do this enough, then for some reason you start to become more respected by the whole forum, and even desirable

Oh Batters, Batters, Batters... Just 'cos there is a new child on the block doesn't mean we lurve you any the less!;) I may not agree with anything you say. I may not offer you a hug (I really, really don't don't do that honeysuckle). But I totally respect you for being the only member (or guest member) of Club Misogynist who actually had the front to tell me to to virtual face that he didn't like what I posted.... You got balls, Dark Knight. Pessimistic balls (what the fresia am I saying, must be the rum in the rhum baba I had for lunch) but balls all the same. You tell your truth. For that ... Respect:D
 
jaguarundi said:
Oh Batters, Batters, Batters... Just 'cos there is a new child on the block doesn't mean we lurve you any the less!;) I may not agree with anything you say. I may not offer you a hug (I really, really don't don't do that honeysuckle). But I totally respect you for being the only member (or guest member) of Club Misogynist who actually had the front to tell me to to virtual face that he didn't like what I posted.... You got balls, Dark Knight. Pessimistic balls (what the fresia am I saying, must be the rum in the rhum baba I had for lunch) but balls all the same. You tell your truth. For that ... Respect:D

I'm a member of Club Misogynist? So now I'll do what I tend to do and analyze what I've said in the past... and am not recalling any specific instances of outright misogyny, to be honest. I didn't like how you called some random "male virgin" you knew in your personal life a loser, basically, because it seemed like you were tarring a lot of guys who still have the v-card with the same brush. I would have written the same thing to anyone else, really, even if you were some celebrity, some CEO of a major company, or anyone, really. I'm just being honest. I have a penchant for defending "weak, low-status guys." :p

As for the witty, non-analytical response to your post, since I'm trying to improve on that: I'm glad you have some respect for me, now let's... erm.. **** I'm not good at this! I give up :rolleyes:
 
Batman55 said:
I'm a member of Club Misogynist? So now I'll do what I tend to do and analyze what I've said in the past... and am not recalling any specific instances of outright misogyny, to be honest. I didn't like how you called some random "male virgin" you knew in your personal life a loser, basically, because it seemed like you were tarring a lot of guys who still have the v-card with the same brush. I would have written the same thing to anyone else, really, even if you were some celebrity, some CEO of a major company, or anyone, really. I'm just being honest. I have a penchant for defending "weak, low-status guys." :p

Probably because you are a "weak, low-status guy", right?

That is 'banter' by the way (take note.)
 
Seems like you're overthinking the popularity and fitting in thing Batman....this forum is a way for people who don't otherwise have the ability or opportunity to gather, share a few ideas, maybe some laughs, and possibly find some answers. Some of us are considerably more light-hearted....maybe WE need that because of stress at home, work, etc. and it allows the opportunity to try and find some humourous moments that we otherwise don't have. Why would it bother you if there's some banter and a few amusing pictures attached? If you don't like it don't read it- seems simple enough to me. I'm personally not bothered if I "fit in" or not, it's about self-expression....being who you are, being real.
 
Well said, and you're right, I'm overthinking it. :rolleyes: The lighthearted and breezy posts aren't necessarily bothering me, so much as causing me to wonder why I'm not naturally interested in expressing myself that way. :p It just seems that it ties in with a greater issue for me, which--put in its most simplest terms--is some sort of blockade that (usually) prevents me from connecting to others. Yes, there is some frustration, sometimes.
 
Batman55 said:
Is there anyone else like me who either does not understand, or simply just doesn't give a crap about.. this "group dynamics" or "social politics" stuff?? I'm really tired of it, and at the same time, I'm bothered by the fact that I seemingly cannot play the "game" and feel left out as a result.

I never particularly got social politics and it didn't bother me, except for the fact it was always required to achieve 'goals' or 'social motivations'. I feel everything should be conducted at point and bluntness. You have X goal, I have Z goal, generally speaking resources should be shared unless there's a reason why we wouldn't share resources (IE goal conflict or similar).

Social politics and egg-shell stepping complicates things.
 
Batman55 said:
It bothers me, because it seems like I'm missing out on a lot for not playing these social politics--which to me seems like a lot of silly and unnecessary nonsense (although I suppose it can also be fun and diverting for others.) I'm sick of always feeling like an outcast, but also really do not want to bother with this stuff... because I have no natural desire to do so, and/or don't really understand it. Has anyone else ever felt the way I do about this?

I agree and am I like this myself. I often try to cut straight to the heart of the matter and forget the fluff and witty banter. If there is a problem to be solved, my intention is to figure out the solution, not make jokes and gags about something else entirely. Just seems like people prefer diversions and distractions from life rather than dealing with it head on. I also have a penchant for honesty that I think leaves some people with a bad taste in their mouth. It is only by addressing your problems head-on that you ever have the chance of getting passed them. My own life situation has improved in the past several years because of this while many of my friends and family are still struggling to get by every day, pay their bills, etc. Life is lived in denial for many and it's just sad.
 
FreedomFromLiberty said:
I agree and am I like this myself. I often try to cut straight to the heart of the matter and forget the fluff and witty banter. If there is a problem to be solved, my intention is to figure out the solution, not make jokes and gags about something else entirely. Just seems like people prefer diversions and distractions from life rather than dealing with it head on. I also have a penchant for honesty that I think leaves some people with a bad taste in their mouth. It is only by addressing your problems head-on that you ever have the chance of getting passed them. My own life situation has improved in the past several years because of this while many of my friends and family are still struggling to get by every day, pay their bills, etc. Life is lived in denial for many and it's just sad.

I think you understand it pretty well, although I've certainly got a huge problem with denial, also... :rolleyes2:
 

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