Self consciousness / Underconfidence / shyness

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SimonT

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I have noticed when I'm out and about, that I'm so self conscious and unsure of myself it's untrue. What causes it? Is it depression, anxiety or a chemical inbalance, or a combination of all the above? I have a friend who firmly believes that how confident you become as an adult, is formed when you're at high school. You see he was bullied a bit at school, and had people putting him down a lot in high school. He also had a very over protective mother who did everything for him and no father around. If that may have had a bearing on it. Anyway, do people agree with his assumption? I on the other hand had a slight bit of bullying at school from 1 particular person, but not majorly. Ever since I hit puberty, at around 14, is when I first remember being under confident and shy. I was always shy around women, especially attractive ones. It started then (at 14) or at least that's the earliest moment I can remember it happening. I've since never been a socialite or confident in myself. I drifted into party drugs at about 19yo and then went onto harder drugs, which I have since beaten, but being unsure of myself, underconfident and not greatly sociable has pretty much ruined my life. People don't realise how this one characteristic can ruin your life. Girls especially, they are much more emotionally in tune than men, and they can tell in an instance you aren't confident around them, and bang, instant turn off. Where as the confident jackasses provail. It's a dilemma that I'm having difficulty beating and don't think I can take for much longer.
 
I'm no psychologist, but I always fall back on "nature and nurture" to explain these sorts of things. That said, depression, anxiety, and chemical imbalances may all be playing a part, and they may all be influencing each other as well. When dealing with co-morbidity, things tend to work in unison to make everything worse. Anxiety feeds depression, depression dampens your motivation to stay healthy, and changes in health can cause chemical imbalances, which can in turn contribute to anxiety and depression, for example. While people do undergo a lot of changes in high school, I wouldn't say that high school is the specific time frame where people's confidence in the future is determined. I think some aspects may be determined in childhood, and some may even be genetic. That said, I don't think it's at all set in stone. People seem to continually develop confidence over time unless something damages it, so I disagree pretty strongly with his assumption. His position seems somewhat resigned and fatalistic. When you consider neuroplasticity, it seem unlikely that the events of a few years of high school can rule the rest of your adult life, unless you believe that it will, at which point it will no doubt become a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you're feeling self-conscious, I'd imagine there's some degree of low self-esteem and anxiety, but--again--I'm no psychologist, so it's definitely worth talking it over with a professional. If you can't get an appointment, call a mental health line or find a site to chat with someone. If you genuinely believe that girls are much more emotionally in tune than men, that they can tell in an instant that you aren't confident around them, and that a lack of confidence around them is an instant turn off, then nothing good is going to come of it. You're having trouble beating this dilemma because it isn't a dilemma at all; it's a false dilemma. Things aren't black and white. Not all women are more emotionally in tune than men. Not all women are perceptive enough to spot a lack of confidence right off the bad. Not all women are instantly turned off by a lack of confidence. There's a huge variety of personality traits, interests, and desires among both sexes, so don't trick yourself into believing that you need to be a certain type of person just to have a chance. Just look at all of the niche genres for books that are out there. Surely, if people's interests in books can be so broad, their interest in people is relatively broad as well. A variety of people write those books, after all. Now, this is just a personal piece of anecdotal evidence, but I'm not emotionally in tune, my partner knew right off the bat that I lacked confidence around her, but it wasn't an instant turn-off. In fact, she dislikes confident jackasses and favors people like me, and--judging by how much I can relate to you--people like you.

In short, fresia that dilemma; it doesn't exist. Try to make some platonic friends and be yourself around them. There are most likely people out there who can accept you for being the way you are and love you in spite of it, and if you surround yourself with people you're comfortable with, you're liable to gain confidence. If you latch on to the belief that you don't have a chance because you aren't a certain type of person, that prophecy is very likely to fulfill itself and make you feel even worse, possibly even embittering you if you hold onto that belief for a long time.
 
I think it's a little of everything. It is also in how you see yourself as well, people don't always see what we see, only how we present ourselves.
 
I am the friend SimonT is talking about. Of course people develop and change in confidence, I'm up and down all the time, I've had quite a lot, had it damaged badly and then worked to re build it. What I was saying to Simon is it can be hard to grow out of deep damage, unless you do something to really change yourself and hit a lucky break in life the way you were made to feel and the damage from your youth can last well into your adult years .. Which as the guy above says can change the way you see yourself and thus present yourself which may give you a past that you don't really want which inevitably try's to bleed into the present. People don't just grow out of this unless they know how to work towards changing it, we all change through life slightly all the time but sometimes slightly isn't enough to reach your full potential and who you really are. I wasn't saying it as 'fatalistic' or insurmountable I was just saying that big changes often don't come easily.
 
Hey SimonT,

I'm sorry that this lack of confidence is making you feel low. I don't think one has to be severely bullied in order to develop low self esteem or lack confidence. We live in a world that is constantly pressuring us into fitting into these moulds, and when some of us don't, we are made to feel like something is wrong with us. Which of course isn't the case.

Perhaps you can start by setting small goals? Like working out 30 mins a day, or telling yourself that you'll be able to do 50 pushups in 3 months. Everytime you achieve a goal, you'll feel better about yourself and your abilities. And perhaps you might consider volunteering? Helping others always makes one feel useful, and being surrounded by people who are positive and passionate about a meaningful cause might also help boost your self esteem. And you can try keeping a diary where you list out say 3 positive things about yourself everyday. With time, your goals can become more challenging so that you feel even better when you achieve them?

Please don't give up though. Sometimes giant leaps work, and other times, living each day as it comes helps more.

I hope this was useful SimonT. Good luck!
 
I hate the way that women make you feel unattractive. That's how it feels to me anyway. If you ended up going down the wrong path such as me, thus losing track, then you sort yourself out, but by this time you have very low self confidence and no friends, cause all the ones you had, progressed through life properly like the majority do, then you don't fit in with them cause they're married with children. I find it hard to feel confident around women and for me, tend to have no spark. Women never approach men, so you end up like me, just looking at'em on your travels thinking, wish I knew what to say or do, cause quite frankly I don't. You feel totally off their radar, sort of invisable, then when you do try and muster a bit of ccourage, you either get looked at like a freak (like I did the other week, which is posted on here) or just blanked completely. Shot down in flames. It's soul destroying. I have quite good rapour with women as well and am witty. I know this from college and the girls I speak to there, but 17-20yo's are way too young for a 38yo. Looks like I've blown my chance at life and of ever finding a decent woman I think :-(
 
Nah you haven't Si, find the right woman and she will find you, its a two way thing and if it isn't two ways then its probably not worth it anyway. Too many women need men to put something inside of them and make them feel something due to how the man is being but the good ones will see something in you regardless of how you make them feel - because that's just shallow tosh!

In my experience, Women are like a bus ride around the country, you get on one, you get off one, and then you get on another one (Because you've just got off one!), if this isn't happening then you're probably not travelling! .. I still have faith myself though, sometimes, that the right, decent one for you, can come at any time. She'll love the things that the other ones didn't, she'll see the things that the other ones cruelly missed. Have faith that there is love somewhere in this world for you or your love is doomed to fail. Have faith, Keep faith and keep on fighting for it .. Amen!
 
DarkMark78 said:
I am the friend SimonT is talking about. Of course people develop and change in confidence, I'm up and down all the time, I've had quite a lot, had it damaged badly and then worked to re build it. What I was saying to Simon is it can be hard to grow out of deep damage, unless you do something to really change yourself and hit a lucky break in life the way you were made to feel and the damage from your youth can last well into your adult years .. Which as the guy above says can change the way you see yourself and thus present yourself which may give you a past that you don't really want which inevitably try's to bleed into the present. People don't just grow out of this unless they know how to work towards changing it, we all change through life slightly all the time but sometimes slightly isn't enough to reach your full potential and who you really are. I wasn't saying it as 'fatalistic' or insurmountable I was just saying that big changes often don't come easily.

The description of your assumption in the original post was oversimplified, but--after reading this--I agree with you. Recovering from something that damages you deeply is incredibly difficult. I still struggle on a regular basis with PTSD from something that happened years ago. Our thoughts about our respective pasts shape our beliefs. Once a belief is deeply ingrained, it can be hard to shake it--especially if it's something bad, since it's easy to find negative things to reinforce those beliefs if you're looking for them. I also agree that you need something more than the little changes that we all go through in day-to-day life to overcome lingering problems from the past, and that the bigger changes, though necessary, don't come easily.

SimonT said:
I hate the way that women make you feel unattractive. That's how it feels to me anyway. If you ended up going down the wrong path such as me, thus losing track, then you sort yourself out, but by this time you have very low self confidence and no friends, cause all the ones you had, progressed through life properly like the majority do, then you don't fit in with them cause they're married with children. I find it hard to feel confident around women and for me, tend to have no spark. Women never approach men, so you end up like me, just looking at'em on your travels thinking, wish I knew what to say or do, cause quite frankly I don't. You feel totally off their radar, sort of invisable, then when you do try and muster a bit of ccourage, you either get looked at like a freak (like I did the other week, which is posted on here) or just blanked completely. Shot down in flames. It's soul destroying. I have quite good rapour with women as well and am witty. I know this from college and the girls I speak to there, but 17-20yo's are way too young for a 38yo. Looks like I've blown my chance at life and of ever finding a decent woman I think :-(

People can try to make you feel unattractive, and it sucks when they do, but you'll only feel unattractive if you believe them and submit to their opinions. A fair portion of what defines "attractiveness" is subjective, so try to keep that in mind. For example, I love thistles--those big spiky plants. I think they're beautiful, but most people think they're just ugly weeds. I have a question for you: what is the proper way to progress through life? I understand where you're coming from to some extent. I was a straight-A student from Kindergarten to grade 11, and I was in a French immersion class that was full of honors roll students, and then I failed math in grade 12 and couldn't handle more than a year of college. Most of my friends are in college or in university, and a handful of them are well on their way to finishing their engineering programs with flying colors. Some of them have houses and jobs. I used to feel like honeysuckle because I thought they were doing everything right, and I'd done everything wrong. They're successful, while I can't get a job, I haven't left home, and I'm seeing a psychologist, but that psychologist helped me realize that there's really no "right" way to live. I can't say much about interacting with women. I've never approached anyone with the intent of starting an intimate relationship, and I almost never approach people with the intent of becoming friends either, but one of my few platonic friendships happened to develop into something more over time. All I can suggest is that you find friends and take it from there if it feels appropriate, and--even then--I hardly have any friends, so take that with a grain of salt. I don't know the age of majority where you live, but 17 would be too young here, but how is someone 18, 19, or 20 years old too young for someone who's 38. That's a 20-year gap at the most. Sure, 2 decades can be a source of jarring differences between people, but my mom's dated men more than 20 years older than her, and that relationship went better than the relationship she had with a younger guy, and I'm sure plenty of other people have had relationships with a 20 year age gap. Human life expectancy is up to about 80 years, in Canada, at least, so you're still a long ways off of blowing your chance at life and finding a partner. That's my two cents.
 
I still think 20yo is too young for. I'm going for 23-30. I don't say over 30 because luckily I only look in my late 20's though I'm 38, and because I'm way off obtaining the things or being as successful as most my age. I feel I have more in common with people around mid-late 20's. I'm young minded I guess too. Some good advice though lone.
 
Lone Apothecary said:
The description of your assumption in the original post was oversimplified, but--after reading this--I agree with you. Recovering from something that damages you deeply is incredibly difficult. I still struggle on a regular basis with PTSD from something that happened years ago. Our thoughts about our respective pasts shape our beliefs. Once a belief is deeply ingrained, it can be hard to shake it--especially if it's something bad, since it's easy to find negative things to reinforce those beliefs if you're looking for them. I also agree that you need something more than the little changes that we all go through in day-to-day life to overcome lingering problems from the past, and that the bigger changes, though necessary, don't come easily.

PTSD - as in Post Traumatic Stress Disorder? I went though something really bad about 5 years ago which led onto a few other things in a pretty nightmarish 6 months. I went from a happy guy, just came out of a loving relationship which meant my confidence was high and so I was enjoying the dating world and ended up damaged in all kinds of area's that I feel most couldn't relate to. My happiness and confidence was broken in ways that meant I had to give up my part time job, I couldn't even go out of the house for about 6 months ..Now I just have a big fear of abandonment embedded into me it seems, and obviously some awful memory's that haunt me - but they're faded now so its not really a problem.

Getting over deep damage can be hard and I've come along way but I would like to go further, its just finding out the best ways to deal with those issues I guess, just like I did when I found Paul McKenna Techniques!
 
SimonT said:
I hate the way that women make you feel unattractive. That's how it feels to me anyway. If you ended up going down the wrong path such as me, thus losing track, then you sort yourself out, but by this time you have very low self confidence and no friends, cause all the ones you had, progressed through life properly like the majority do, then you don't fit in with them cause they're married with children. I find it hard to feel confident around women and for me, tend to have no spark. Women never approach men, so you end up like me, just looking at'em on your travels thinking, wish I knew what to say or do, cause quite frankly I don't. You feel totally off their radar, sort of invisable, then when you do try and muster a bit of ccourage, you either get looked at like a freak (like I did the other week, which is posted on here) or just blanked completely. Shot down in flames. It's soul destroying. I have quite good rapour with women as well and am witty. I know this from college and the girls I speak to there, but 17-20yo's are way too young for a 38yo. Looks like I've blown my chance at life and of ever finding a decent woman I think :-(
I think when you're short of confidence, it's easy to think that people (especially the opposite sex) will react to you the same way - but it's not true. One girl may not seem interested in you for all kinds of reasons - she may even be shy and unconfident and socially awkward herself - and it's easy to internalise that and convince yourself it's down to some fault of yours. Women are just like men, we've all got different opinions on stuff, and sometimes those opinions sort-of stink.

If a lady brushes you off, accept that there's a good chance it's not because of you, and even if it is she's entitled to her opinion (no matter how stinky). You said it yourself, you have wit and the ability to form a good rapport. I get the impression you've got some interesting experiences and outlooks. If a girl's not interested, you haven't wasted too much time on somebody you don't click with, meaning you can get to somebody cool a lot sooner :)
 
I just feel stuck. It's getting to the point now where I can't take much more. I'm sick of being lonely (not to mention a high sex drive that never gets fulfilled). It's like I'm stuck in this mindset I can't get out of. I genuinly think it's something to do with depression. A chemical inbalance. When I drink, I get tremendously anxious, to the point of panic attack and then a really bad headache ensues. So because of this, I've stopped drinking, and because I've stopped drinking, I'm anti-social. I think a woman would think I was a bit boring be honest. I just want to stay in all the time. Everything revolves around drinking. Going out for a meal, drink, obviously parties, pubs and clubs. If I go out, I don't drink and it feels like everything is going on around me, everyone's having a good time and I'm not part of it. Probably cause everyone around me's drunk and so it's qiite surreal isn't it. There's these new non alchol pubs popping up around, gonna try one when they open up in my area. Back to my life though, I think serious help is needed. I'm lying in bed writing this, I'm hoping that I don't wake up in the morning. There's f-all wake up for. No job, no woman, no money or anything. Tried therapists, they're next to useless as well. I need a couple of thoysand pound to crack on with my music (which is the only thing I'm truly confident I'm good at).
 
SimonT said:
I still think 20yo is too young for. I'm going for 23-30. I don't say over 30 because luckily I only look in my late 20's though I'm 38, and because I'm way off obtaining the things or being as successful as most my age. I feel I have more in common with people around mid-late 20's. I'm young minded I guess too. Some good advice though lone.
Ah, if it's a personal preference, then hey, you like what you like. I wasn't sure if you were backing yourself into a corner thinking you were too old or not. When you say things that indicate that you feel like you haven't gotten the things or success that others your age have gotten, it makes me think that you're letting external things influence your expectations of yourself. My psychologist called me out on always thinking in "shoulds." I should be happy, I should be smarter, I should have a job, etc. I don't know if this is relevant to you, but the most important "should" is "what should I do to make myself happy." Ah, I'm honored, but I don't think I give good advice; I'm just sharing my thoughts and opinions. You know what's best for you better than I do, but I think you need to ease off on the unfair comparisons.

DarkMark78 said:
PTSD - as in Post Traumatic Stress Disorder? I went though something really bad about 5 years ago which led onto a few other things in a pretty nightmarish 6 months. I went from a happy guy, just came out of a loving relationship which meant my confidence was high and so I was enjoying the dating world and ended up damaged in all kinds of area's that I feel most couldn't relate to. My happiness and confidence was broken in ways that meant I had to give up my part time job, I couldn't even go out of the house for about 6 months ..Now I just have a big fear of abandonment embedded into me it seems, and obviously some awful memory's that haunt me - but they're faded now so its not really a problem.

Getting over deep damage can be hard and I've come along way but I would like to go further, its just finding out the best ways to deal with those issues I guess, just like I did when I found Paul McKenna Techniques!
Yes, post-traumatic stress disorder. One of my mother's former boyfriends got drunk and assaulted her one night. I was asleep and got woke up by the ruckus and what happened stuck with me. I still have lingering feeling of unease around alcohol and I often find older men intimidating, but I've gotten the panic attacks mostly under control.

It is incredibly hard, especially when something happens and the old memories get dredged up again and all the wounds feel fresh for a while.
 
SimonT said:
I have noticed when I'm out and about, that I'm so self conscious and unsure of myself it's untrue. What causes it? Is it depression, anxiety or a chemical inbalance, or a combination of all the above? I have a friend who firmly believes that how confident you become as an adult, is formed when you're at high school. You see he was bullied a bit at school, and had people putting him down a lot in high school. He also had a very over protective mother who did everything for him and no father around. If that may have had a bearing on it. Anyway, do people agree with his assumption? I on the other hand had a slight bit of bullying at school from 1 particular person, but not majorly. Ever since I hit puberty, at around 14, is when I first remember being under confident and shy. I was always shy around women, especially attractive ones. It started then (at 14) or at least that's the earliest moment I can remember it happening. I've since never been a socialite or confident in myself. I drifted into party drugs at about 19yo and then went onto harder drugs, which I have since beaten, but being unsure of myself, underconfident and not greatly sociable has pretty much ruined my life. People don't realise how this one characteristic can ruin your life. Girls especially, they are much more emotionally in tune than men, and they can tell in an instance you aren't confident around them, and bang, instant turn off. Where as the confident jackasses provail. It's a dilemma that I'm having difficulty beating and don't think I can take for much longer.

You'll just have to come to terms with the fact that women don't fancy you.
I mean... either you choose yourself, as you are and as you know yourself, or you choose women.
At some point you will probably meet someone who wants you. Or not. Just don't hold your breath until then and try to find places where you are welcomed.
 
Hello Simon,
I often too have up's and down's: I suffer from bi-polar disorder and I've been bullied through out growing up. In a way I'm still shy and find it hard time trying to talk to people. Sometimes I often times worry what they might think of me- but I still remain myself in the long run. Continue to be true to yourself, you'll end up in time find someone who will relate to how you feel and meet a woman who will love you for who you are. Don't beat yourself up too much: but I do this often times myself and I'm trying to learn how to love myself and try not to worry so much about what others think about me. PTSD is hard but you can overcome it: right now I'm dealing with a little bit myself and I also have a fear of abandonment. My activities and hobbies keep me busy, but there's times where I'll get very nervous and scared that I'll end up being abandoned and forgotten about. Many of my old friends all moved on with their lives and I still continue to live in the past: it's very hard for me to move on from my past but I'm still holding on. And I continue to tell myself that eventually I'll get better and the more I tell myself this I start feeling better about the fact that things do change. Change can be very scary and so can you're own thoughts. 31 years old and I'm still young at heart and I feel like I haven't gotten any older: I feel stuck. There was a time where I took drugs so I could numb my pain but I'm doing much better now. Right now you're going through a lot but eventually little by little that pain will start to disappear. You have to believe that things will get better, if you feel scared tell yourself that you're okay and try to soothe yourself. Another option you should do is meditating, I recently started meditating again and it's helping me out a lot. Wish you all the best of luck and please don't lose hope. =)
 

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