Questions

I wanted to find out how many people are getting older and have never been able to start or maintain an intimate relationship. The older part is subjective; I just want to know if you feel like the time to make that connection has passed, or is passing you by.

There are people who spend their entire lives alone, without any significant connections, and I want to know why. I suspect that there are many reasons that contribute, and it's different from person to person, but I also suspect that there's one fundamental reason for the isolation, I just don't know what that is.

I know that it's a problem that can encompass both sexes, but IMO I think it's primarily a male problem. I have no evidence or experience to suggest this, it's just my sense of it. I think that women who have problems making connections end up, more often than not, getting into relationships with the wrong sort of men. I'd like to find out whether I'm wrong in this or not.

I suppose I'll start:

I spent most of my young life feeling alienated, and alienating myself from those around me. The connections I did make were those that felt outcast too. We set a little group up, and spent our late teens, early twenty's exploring what was offered outside of society; transiency, crime, drugs. I did not want to be a part of the world, I wanted to be outside of it, or even against it. I did not hate people, I hated myself amongst them. I saw, and still sometimes see, myself apart from them and not like them in any meaningful way.

The counterculture was just another form of belonging, another social structure, and once I saw that I was not really a part of that either, I abandoned it. I did feel close to a few friends that I'd made along the way, but once they were gone, I never made those kind of connections again.

To this day I still keep people at arms length. It's almost compulsive, like I do it as a reflex without thinking about it. I don't join social clubs, I rarely go out, I don't drink, and I don't like to watch sports(I put that in because it's amazing how much of the adult social structure that I'm in contact with socializes around sporting events, even though they're highly educated). It's honestly a few simple steps that I could take that would keep me from being isolated but I refuse to take them. It makes me uncomfortable and for the most part, I would be taking part in activities or events that either I wouldn't enjoy, or would have an ideological aversion to, such as church. I'm also not commonly a very friendly person, I am almost entirely unapproachable.

Despite my chosen behavior(I say chosen, but like I said, I often behave this way as a reflex, without thinking about it), I'm very lonely, and would love to make a connection to someone who's at least somewhat like minded in a few ways. I'm afraid that if I can't change the way I see the rest of the world, and more importantly the way I see myself, I'll end up being alone for the rest of my life.

We're all lonely in one way or another here. Some of us have had 1 or 10 relationships and haven't found what we're looking for. Women have it different from Men. They may have a lot of relationships and meet many men but they may never find their right connection. It works both ways where some men don't find it through lack of opportunity as many people on here are or just fall in the same boat and have tonnes of relationships but don't find it. It's easy for no one and its tough to realise it when you're going through it. The 'why is it always me' kind of plays here. That really varies in its degrees. I haven't been in a relationship in a long long time and I start to wander what I'm not doing right.

I was thinking to myself recently I have never really belonged to any group of people and have only had a few friends at any one time. It's just how life is and you get used to it. So even if you dont fit in with the all the sports crowd or the nightclubbing crowd or whatever most people like to do, there's always something better to do out there for yourself.

We're all alone anyway and you can either accept it for the rest of your life or try and struggle to find the things you're looking for. Even if you don't find them, better a life of oh wells than what ifs.

jjessea said:

I spent most of my young life feeling alienated, and alienating myself from those around me. The connections I did make were those that felt outcast too......

I don't join social clubs, I rarely go out, I don't drink, and I don't like to watch sports...

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I feel much the same way. I spent most of my young life with very few friends. I didn't make any of my lasting friendships until 8th grade. Like you, I felt I was an outcast. I was not one of the "cool people" in other words not an athlete and not a rich party stoner or a "tough guy"/gangster. I didn't really want to be those either. But I did want access to the "fastlane" that seemed only available to them.

I think my problem is that I've never known where to belong. I never really liked the "in" crowd, I actually despised it and not just because I was not invited to join. While I didn't like their clique-ish, catty personalities, the main thing was I was simply not interested in the things that they were interested in. They wanted to talk about sports, weed, drinking, gambling, rap, techno, and sex. I wanted to talk about Star Wars and roleplaying and action figures. I had little to no interest in sex and relationships at the time. I was content thinking was just something that would happen later and that there wasn't anything I could do about it anyway.

I also didn't join clubs, didn't make college friends really, don't go out much, and only drink a little. I don't like to hang out in bars because it seems like that's what people do when they have no ideas. And I'm not really into watching sports either. I'm not against sports really, I like to play pick-up games for fun when I can and I can see why someone would be interested in them. But I don't follow sports like a lot of people do, it's not a central interest of mine. I feel like it's just watching other people have lives. I almost don't even like going to concerts anymore, for the same reason.

But, in not being in the "in" crowd, I feel like I am very much behind the social curve. I'm catching up a little, but at the same time, I feel like they have the edge on me because they learned how to compete.

Also I just don't really have a place to belong as far as relationships go. The "in" girls don't interest me - these have grown up to be the professionals/sports fans you described. But I'm not really attracted to the outcast girls either, even though we're on the same side of the fence. The women I'm attracted to, I've noticed, are neither "in" nor "out". We share interests, but they are not so "out" that I can get by with them without proper social/flirting skills and "coolness" that "in" people have.

So here I am in limbo, I guess.

The lack of intimate relationships doesn't mean "alone their whole lives" though. I for example have had and currently have a fair share of friends. Classmates, people I know through the internet or just random people I met by chance. I don't hate humanity, and I don't hate people.I'm very friendly and confident, and can carry conversations of any type.

But still can't have intimate relationships of any kind. I don't think I'm "too old" or the opportunities are passing me by, though I resent the fact that I didn't experience what many people my age already did: the first kiss, the first relationship and to a lesser degree, the first sexual relationship. Aside from that, not being that emotionally close to "friends" and my parents do make my life a kick on the nuts.

For me, I know I haven't had any intimate, significant relationships because I don't think they are worth the effort. I don't get emotional satisfaction from relationships, they just seem to be a pain in the ass to mantain, and unless there's something else the person can offer me, like intellectual challenge or whatever, I will hardly stick around just for the sake of it, because it's all a waste of energy.

And I am not proud of this aspect of my personality. But this seems to be like something in the very core of myself, something I can't change no matter how much I want to because it's too deep settled. I simply cannot find pleasure in being around people. But boy, do I want to change that, it would make my life so much better...

Ymir said:

...unless there's something else the person can offer me, like intellectual challenge or whatever, I will hardly stick around just for the sake of it, because it's all a waste of energy.

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Yea, that's another problem I'm having. I'm looking for a sort of challenge too. Someone who challenges me to be more intellectual, playful, interesting, creative/artistic, exciting, fun, and free. I'm not even saying I'm all that smart either. I sure don't feel like it. But I'd like someone who inspires me to expand. Unfortunately, there's not really anyone around who brings out that feeling. There's no one here that being in a relationship with would push me to expand. In fact, they might even make me contract. So there I'd be, just sticking around for the sake of it. I'm tired of just watching my life pass me by but there's no one here who can take me where I want to go.

Not to make this about me again but I feel like this question is what I am going through also.

TheSkaFish said:

Ymir said:

...unless there's something else the person can offer me, like intellectual challenge or whatever, I will hardly stick around just for the sake of it, because it's all a waste of energy.

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Yea, that's another problem I'm having. I'm looking for a sort of challenge too. Someone who challenges me to be more intellectual, playful, interesting, creative/artistic, exciting, fun, and free. I'm not even saying I'm all that smart either. I sure don't feel like it. But I'd like someone who inspires me to expand. Unfortunately, there's not really anyone around who brings out that feeling. There's no one here that being in a relationship with would push me to expand. In fact, they might even make me contract. So there I'd be, just sticking around for the sake of it. I'm tired of just watching my life pass me by but there's no one here who can take me where I want to go.

Not to make this about me again but I feel like this question is what I am going through also.

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I'm not interested in people who aren't going to add anything to my life, either. And considering that I'm stuck in a school full with people I don't get along very well with, and that my health is getting in the way of me getting a hobby where I can meet people I consider interesting, I don't think I can solve this particular problem anytime soon, unfortunately.

If I were to find a boyfriend or a close friend, it would have to be someone different who would make me experience new things, and go to new places and just live my life a little different for a while.

I can only try and make my own life a bit more interesting.

I've only really had one true intimate relationship. I never went out drinking or to clubs or anything. Never cared to, and still don't. I'm 25 now, so I suppose if I ever decided to, I could start. But I probably won't. Even if I were single, I wouldn't. I just imagine myself getting older, may or may not be with who I'm with now. I've never actively sought a relationship though, and I would honestly be fine by myself.

I don't think it's a male or female issue. It's more of the type of person. Many personality traits don't depend on gender.

VanillaCreme said:

I don't think it's a male or female issue. It's more of the type of person. Many personality traits don't depend on gender.

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This exactly.

This is just my experience in EMS talking, but we respond to more 'welfare checks' on men who have not been seen by their neighbors for some time, and we find that they've committed suicide. Or their utility bills go unpaid and a service worker goes out to check on the house, or read their meter, just to find a dead body, which is usually also a suicide. I have never run on an older woman who we find alone and dead at her house after a great deal of time has passed before anyone has seen her. I know that it does happen, I've just never seen it. However, we do run into suicide attempts by women whom we can usually stabilize and get to the hospital, normally overdoses. I can say that in my experience however, that the number of deaths of older, seemingly isolated men, greatly outweighs the number of older women that have attempted suicide.

Older white males are the leading demographic for suicide in this country:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assessment_of_suicide_risk#Demographic_factors
That may be due to the fact that men are generally more successful because they tend to take more violent courses for suicide, i.e. hangings, gunshot wounds, etc., and women typically try to overdose. Overdoses are usually not fatal, except for a few classes of drugs that have a very high mortality rate, which I won't mention here.

All that really proves nothing in regard to whether men are generally more lonely than women. That is my opinion though, given my work experience, the men that I've met personally over the years, and my own personal situation.

I know, and believe, that people can find happiness and fulfillment, and lead productive lives without intimate attachments. But I do believe that it matters a great deal to people having someone special to share their lives with. For those that have have never known what that was like, to have never made that connection, it can be a devastating regret as they enter into old age. Imagine never holding anyone in your arms as they fall asleep beside you, never saying I love you to anyone, never hearing it said to you, never holding hands, going to a movie with anyone, having someone miss you while you were gone, none of that. None of the things that remind you that your life, your very existence, matters to anyone at all. That you are irreplaceable.

Let me ask it this way:
How old are you?
Are you male or female?
How many intimate relationships have you been in?

On just this forum, I'd wager that the number of men vs. women past their 30's and 40's who've never been in a relationship is at least 10 to 1. If enough people answer, and answer honestly, I could at least get a good start on finding an answer to this question: are men more likely to end up alone than women?

That's what I want to know. I want to know if it's just me. It's so hard to face that idea. I don't want it to be true.

---

I know that my posts tend to have a common theme, and I may sound like a broken record, so I apologize for that. It's just something that bothers me, and has been bothering me a lot lately, so I've chosen to express myself here.

---

VanillaCreme said:

I don't think it's a male or female issue. It's more of the type of person. Many personality traits don't depend on gender.

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On this I mostly agree. I just think that social problems manifest differently with men than with women, and can be harder on men as they enter into old age, and I think that this is the difference:

VanillaCreme said:

I've never actively sought a relationship though

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As a man, for the most part, you have to actively seek a relationship. I have never actively sought one either, hence the isolation.

jjessea said:

This is just my experience in EMS talking, but we respond to more 'welfare checks' on men who have not been seen by their neighbors for some time, and we find that they've committed suicide. Or their utility bills go unpaid and a service worker goes out to check on the house, or read their meter, just to find a dead body, which is usually also a suicide. I have never run on an older woman who we find alone and dead at her house after a great deal of time has passed before anyone has seen her. I know that it does happen, I've just never seen it. However, we do run into suicide attempts by women whom we can usually stabilize and get to the hospital, normally overdoses. I can say that in my experience however, that the number of deaths of older, seemingly isolated men, greatly outweighs the number of older women that have attempted suicide.

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Well, that's ******* terrible. But, just because you've never run into it, doesn't mean that it doesn't happen. It just means you've never run into it. Man or woman, that's just full of sadness though.

jjessea said:

VanillaCreme said:

I don't think it's a male or female issue. It's more of the type of person. Many personality traits don't depend on gender.

Click to expand...

On this I mostly agree. I just think that social problems manifest differently with men than with women, and can be harder on men as they enter into old age, and I think that this is the difference:

VanillaCreme said:

I've never actively sought a relationship though

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As a man, for the most part, you have to actively seek a relationship. I have never actively sought one either, hence the isolation.

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I can honestly say that I don't think my guy ever actively sought out a relationship either. He's not very social. Doesn't like people. And for as long as I've known him, he really only likes talking to our group of friends. He doesn't even care to talk to his own family members, unless they need him for something.

VanillaCreme said:

Well, that's ******* terrible. But, just because you've never run into it, doesn't mean that it doesn't happen. It just means you've never run into it. Man or woman, that's just full of sadness though.

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Sorry, but that is a reality for some. Some people can die and no one will know or care. It will not change the world one bit. I also said that I know that it happens and that I've just never run into it. Believe me, I've heard some stories.

I also don't want to turn this into a competition between the sexes of who is worse off. These are just my observations, personally biased they may be, and on a deeper level, a very real concern for my future.

jjessea said:

But I do believe that it matters a great deal to people having someone special to share their lives with. For those that have have never known what that was like, to have never made that connection, it can be a devastating regret as they enter into old age. Imagine never holding anyone in your arms as they fall asleep beside you, never saying I love you to anyone, never hearing it said to you, never holding hands, going to a movie with anyone, having someone miss you while you were gone, none of that. None of the things that remind you that your life, your very existence, matters to anyone at all. That you are irreplaceable.

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This is something I think and worry about all the time. As I approach 30 and almost never meet anyone I find romantically/sexually appealing, I think I am getting to be in serious danger of becoming one of these lonely, older men who has never had a relationship. It's not like high school anymore, where I felt that there was no rush and plenty of time to find someone. I have never been suicidal and don't think that would be my problem. I worry more about just being someone who feels that life has passed them by, having spent their whole lives in the clutches of regret and having never experienced those nice things you described - no holding hands, no "I love you's", no pictures, no movies, no missings, no one to cuddle, no memories. No dates, no first kisses - no real ones anyway - I have kissed girls before but it was under awkward circumstances that I did not even really want to be in, and I did not enjoy it or feel the excitement, the spark for the person I was with. Just nothing.

jjessea said:

Let me ask it this way:
How old are you?
Are you male or female?
How many intimate relationships have you been in?

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To answer your questions, I'm 27, will be 28 in a month and a half, male, and intimate relationships for me have been zero.

jjessea said:

As a man, for the most part, you have to actively seek a relationship. I have never actively sought one either, hence the isolation.

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I'd be inclined to agree. I haven't taken much real action, and no one has just materialized out of the blue. But around here, I haven't met anyone that inspires me to take action. My friends don't know anyone I'd like and I don't go out a lot. There hasn't been anyone I've liked at any of the jobs I've worked, and I very much doubt there will be at my next job, especially given the nature of it. I've looked at various dating sites, and haven't found anyone exciting there either. It's just disappointing.

Hmm, I've never been in a relationship, and at this point I don't want one. Part of this is possibly some bitterness, but honestly, I am not suited for one, and I don't see the point. I would like a group of friends I can trust and as I get older, that gets more difficult to find. Aaaaaaand, I should leave the house more.

Well just look at that. Right now the ratio is 1 to 1 for those past the age of 30. So far this thread has proven me wrong.