Stop me if you've heard this: I don't know how to talk to girls

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supernova88

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I'm lucky enough to say I've been in two meaningful relationships in my life, so I know I'm not a hopeless case when it comes to women. The caveat, though, is how I ended up in a relationship. The thing is, I'm not terribly smooth when it comes to asking girls out. The two times I had a girlfriend were both in college, and in those cases me and the girls grew closer over time until we just sort of fell into dating. Now that I am out of college I don't have that same stability of getting to know someone slowly but surely over time, but I have had such little experience and little luck asking someone out on the fly I feel very ill prepared the next time I want to try my luck dating.

I've been rejected before and that obviously hasn't deterred me, so my hang-up isn't really fear that the girl will say "no." Instead, when I'm interested in a young lady what happens is I get nervous I have nothing interesting to say or offer to our initial meeting, and I psych myself out. I have such a hard time making normal friends as is, I start convincing myself that my 5 minute convo with some cute girl couldn't possibly be entertaining enough to convince her to go on a date. My mind starts to blank, and suddenly I'm exactly where I feared I would be without anything to talk about, exciting or otherwise.

For several summers in a row I've been working with kids at camp, and I've been stuck in an awkward rut where I'm older than most counselors but younger than the higher-ups, so I don't have many people to socialize with. This year there is a young lady close to my age who I'm interested in as more than friends, and I take any opportunity I can to talk to her at work even if it's only a few passing minutes here and there. It's obvious she doesn't dislike me, but I'm having serious doubts if I'm interesting enough to be noticed as anything more than a coworker. At a staff party we talked several times and it went well, but the more nervous I got the more put off I was when she talked to other coworkers and it looked to me like they were hitting it off ten times better than I could muster. Keeping my eyes open from day to day, I can tell this girl is popular amongst the staff, and having my own social problems as is it's hard for me to imagine I'm interesting or personable enough to stand out as potential date material compared to my other male coworkers who can shoot the honeysuckle with ease.

I know if I keep doubting myself I'm never going to have the finesse to attract this girl or anyone else, but I don't know how to snap out of whatever it is keeping me back. I could, of course, just go for it and ask her out spontaneously rather than risk her getting close to another coworker in the meantime (assuming she isn't already taken or whatever), but I'm just so nervous messing up somehow, and just as I haven't worked through this problem yet I'm afraid I can't work through it in the future. I've been debating online dating as an alternative because then at least I know I'd be meeting people who are also looking for someone and might be more open to what I have to offer, but I don't feel like giving up in the real world just yet.
 
It's difficult to find the courage to go from a "friends" type situation to something more, in fact the longer you let it slide the harder it will get and if she is interested in you she will most likely "friend zone" you.

Given you have a good rapport with her, you could just suggest something a long the lines of a date like going to see a movie, have an actual film in mind when you ask her so you sound confident, if she says yes than that gives you something to work off, if she says no than you at least you know that she isn't seeing you in the way that you see her.

On occasion when I have been feeling confident I have struck up conversations with women in the street and I have asked them out, I have found that the key is to forget all the PC crap we have been fed and just be upfront and definite about things, I used to be Mr Nice Guy and ask them to a movie wanting them to choose one so it would be something she wanted to see etc, surprise, surprise most women want the man to decide.

I hope all that helps to some degree.
 
Don't be drawn into the idea that it should all be up to you; if a woman is interested she should be making some attempt to get to know you better and let you know. In fact it should be fairly obvious if you're paying attention.

"How do I talk to women" implies that they're alien creatures or 'special' in some way. My feeling is you should talk to them the same way you talk to male friends, minus any inappropriate humour of course...
 
ardour said:
Don't be drawn into the idea that it should all be up to you; if a woman is interested she should be making some attempt to get to know you better and let you know. In fact it should be fairly obvious if you're paying attention.

"How do I talk to women" implies that they're alien creatures or 'special' in some way. My feeling is you should talk to them the same way you talk to male friends, minus any inappropriate humour of course...

That's very true, women do give a lot of non verbal cues in regards to whether they like you or not, eye contact, smiling more often, touching her hair, if she really likes you she will bite her lip, these are all general things and may not apply to every woman but they pointers anyway.

I also agree that you should just talk to them as if they are normal people...*ducks*

;-)
 
Thanks for the tips and support so far. Yeah, I didn't mean to sound like women are another species or something. For the most part I can talk to people just fine, but when I'm interested in someone I kinda feel put in the spotlight and get all nervous, almost like having to stand in front of a class and give a report. I totally agree that I'm better off being myself and letting chemistry take its course - in fact trying to be "impressive" could just as easily backfire. Of course, typing this online and putting it into practice are two different things. Let's hope I can conquer my natural instincts and be a little more confident next time around.
 
I think great tips have been given already. Women are much more subtle about liking someone. It might be because rejection is harder on females, but I'm not sure of that. And seeing them as people and not placing them on pedestals or different planets is helpful.

Comment I wanted to add was that online dating isn't a downgrade per se. It still has a small stigma attached to it, but most people see it as a sophisticated & modern form of meeting others. It's basically another field of play, not a resignation. I'd say give it a try alongside your real world ventures.

Best of luck with the lady friend good sir! Keep calm and try not to overthink the talks with her. When in doubt, ask her a question & simply listen while you compose your thoughts.
 
It never gets easier. I am in my 30s and never been in a relationship, so you've had better luck than me.

All I can say is, do not be shy! I repeat, that, do not be shy. Girls hate shy guys for some reason, it's why I've had so much trouble.
 
barky said:
I think great tips have been given already. Women are much more subtle about liking someone. It might be because rejection is harder on females, but I'm not sure of that. And seeing them as people and not placing them on pedestals or different planets is helpful.

Comment I wanted to add was that online dating isn't a downgrade per se. It still has a small stigma attached to it, but most people see it as a sophisticated & modern form of meeting others. It's basically another field of play, not a resignation. I'd say give it a try alongside your real world ventures.

Best of luck with the lady friend good sir! Keep calm and try not to overthink the talks with her. When in doubt, ask her a question & simply listen while you compose your thoughts.

I have noticed that women don't deal with rejection very well at all, perhaps it is because they are used to men falling over themselves to have sex with them or just because they feel because they are women they need to be handled with kit gloves, whichever but I have experienced women being very angry when I have not wanted to be with them or not liked them etc.

Men on the other hand are just expected to accept rejection with a smile and walk away gracefully and yet still be available to be the woman's friend/back up lol
 
Monkee said:
barky said:
I think great tips have been given already. Women are much more subtle about liking someone. It might be because rejection is harder on females, but I'm not sure of that. And seeing them as people and not placing them on pedestals or different planets is helpful.

Comment I wanted to add was that online dating isn't a downgrade per se. It still has a small stigma attached to it, but most people see it as a sophisticated & modern form of meeting others. It's basically another field of play, not a resignation. I'd say give it a try alongside your real world ventures.

Best of luck with the lady friend good sir! Keep calm and try not to overthink the talks with her. When in doubt, ask her a question & simply listen while you compose your thoughts.

I have noticed that women don't deal with rejection very well at all, perhaps it is because they are used to men falling over themselves to have sex with them or just because they feel because they are women they need to be handled with kit gloves, whichever but I have experienced women being very angry when I have not wanted to be with them or not liked them etc.

Men on the other hand are just expected to accept rejection with a smile and walk away gracefully and yet still be available to be the woman's friend/back up lol

lol
okay

As a woman, I feel offended. I don't feel the need to be handled with kit gloves and quite honestly, men falling 'over themselves to have sex with them' is all their own fault. Don't act desperate, don't beg to have sex, and you'll be fine.

Dang, nobody is telling you to follow the given stereotype. If you want to sit there and eat icecream after being rejected & ditch the girl, do it. It's all up to you. Nobody is gonna do it for you.

Take it as a compliment instead of turning it into a women-bashing thing?
 
Rainbows said:
Monkee said:
barky said:
I think great tips have been given already. Women are much more subtle about liking someone. It might be because rejection is harder on females, but I'm not sure of that. And seeing them as people and not placing them on pedestals or different planets is helpful.

Comment I wanted to add was that online dating isn't a downgrade per se. It still has a small stigma attached to it, but most people see it as a sophisticated & modern form of meeting others. It's basically another field of play, not a resignation. I'd say give it a try alongside your real world ventures.

Best of luck with the lady friend good sir! Keep calm and try not to overthink the talks with her. When in doubt, ask her a question & simply listen while you compose your thoughts.

I have noticed that women don't deal with rejection very well at all, perhaps it is because they are used to men falling over themselves to have sex with them or just because they feel because they are women they need to be handled with kit gloves, whichever but I have experienced women being very angry when I have not wanted to be with them or not liked them etc.

Men on the other hand are just expected to accept rejection with a smile and walk away gracefully and yet still be available to be the woman's friend/back up lol

lol
okay

As a woman, I feel offended. I don't feel the need to be handled with kit gloves and quite honestly, men falling 'over themselves to have sex with them' is all their own fault. Don't act desperate, don't beg to have sex, and you'll be fine.

Dang, nobody is telling you to follow the given stereotype. If you want to sit there and eat icecream after being rejected & ditch the girl, do it. It's all up to you. Nobody is gonna do it for you.

Take it as a compliment instead of turning it into a women-bashing thing?

I agree, I MUCH rather have a guy straight up tell me he doesn't want me, rather then play the stupid mind games of leading me on. Don't even have to be subtle about it. And yea, I may watch a honeysuckle ton of Netflix that night, but eh, life goes on. And the whole guys have to just take the rejection, that isn't true. I had 3 guy roommates, and I got to see them be rejected, and watch their movies, and drink their drinks, or whatever they needed to cope. Rejection hurts for everyone, it hits the same nerves as getting punched in the stomach.
 
Rainbows said:
Monkee said:
barky said:
I think great tips have been given already. Women are much more subtle about liking someone. It might be because rejection is harder on females, but I'm not sure of that. And seeing them as people and not placing them on pedestals or different planets is helpful.

Comment I wanted to add was that online dating isn't a downgrade per se. It still has a small stigma attached to it, but most people see it as a sophisticated & modern form of meeting others. It's basically another field of play, not a resignation. I'd say give it a try alongside your real world ventures.

Best of luck with the lady friend good sir! Keep calm and try not to overthink the talks with her. When in doubt, ask her a question & simply listen while you compose your thoughts.

I have noticed that women don't deal with rejection very well at all, perhaps it is because they are used to men falling over themselves to have sex with them or just because they feel because they are women they need to be handled with kit gloves, whichever but I have experienced women being very angry when I have not wanted to be with them or not liked them etc.

Men on the other hand are just expected to accept rejection with a smile and walk away gracefully and yet still be available to be the woman's friend/back up lol

lol
okay

As a woman, I feel offended. I don't feel the need to be handled with kit gloves and quite honestly, men falling 'over themselves to have sex with them' is all their own fault. Don't act desperate, don't beg to have sex, and you'll be fine.

Dang, nobody is telling you to follow the given stereotype. If you want to sit there and eat icecream after being rejected & ditch the girl, do it. It's all up to you. Nobody is gonna do it for you.

Take it as a compliment instead of turning it into a women-bashing thing?

I wasn't bashing women, simply expressing some of my experiences and observations, and no, I don't stick around to "eat ice cream" after being rejected.

Although that comment appealed to my warped sense of humour. :)
 
Nicolelt said:
I agree, I MUCH rather have a guy straight up tell me he doesn't want me, rather then play the stupid mind games of leading me on. Don't even have to be subtle about it. And yea, I may watch a honeysuckle ton of Netflix that night, but eh, life goes on. And the whole guys have to just take the rejection, that isn't true. I had 3 guy roommates, and I got to see them be rejected, and watch their movies, and drink their drinks, or whatever they needed to cope. Rejection hurts for everyone, it hits the same nerves as getting punched in the stomach.

It's not just the rejection, it's the manner and atmosphere in which it occurs. Rarely will women see interest from a guy as completely harmless if it's unreciprocated. He could be viewed as a potential rapist, a threat, even without crossing any boundaries. She feels unsafe and will make a point of avoiding him from there on. This is obvious to any man with the slightest bit of sensitivity and observational abilities. We see that fear.

Rejection hurts for everyone, but it is a different situation for us because of the way society views males at present and the current emphasis on 'rape culture', coercion, stalking, harassment and so on. Making interest plain when there are no clear signals (as there often aren't) can lead to some dark judgements if you get it wrong. This hurts more than having to accept your crush doesn't want you or getting a cold reaction. And it happens even without any obvious romantic intent. I've had all sorts of nasty things said and thought of me for attempting friendly conversation with women who didn't want to talk, who had come to some negative prior conclusion about me without me knowing. You don't really know what it's like...
 
ardour said:
Nicolelt said:
I agree, I MUCH rather have a guy straight up tell me he doesn't want me, rather then play the stupid mind games of leading me on. Don't even have to be subtle about it. And yea, I may watch a honeysuckle ton of Netflix that night, but eh, life goes on. And the whole guys have to just take the rejection, that isn't true. I had 3 guy roommates, and I got to see them be rejected, and watch their movies, and drink their drinks, or whatever they needed to cope. Rejection hurts for everyone, it hits the same nerves as getting punched in the stomach.

It's not just the rejection, it's the manner and atmosphere in which it occurs. Rarely will women see interest from a guy as completely harmless if it's unreciprocated. He could be viewed as a potential rapist, a threat, even without crossing any boundaries. She feels unsafe and will make a point of avoiding him from there on. This is obvious to any man with the slightest bit of sensitivity and observational abilities. We see that fear.

Rejection hurts for everyone, but it is a different situation for us because of the way society views males at present and the current emphasis on 'rape culture', coercion, stalking, harassment and so on. Making interest plain when there are no clear signals (as there often aren't) can lead to some dark judgements if you get it wrong. This hurts more than having to accept your crush doesn't want you or getting a cold reaction. And it happens even without any obvious romantic intent. I've had all sorts of nasty things said and thought of me for attempting friendly conversation with women who didn't want to talk, who had come to some negative prior conclusion about me without me knowing. You don't really know what it's like...

I seriously have no idea what you are talking about. Of course, Ardour, I don't know where you are from, or what generation you belong too, but I have never had those feelings towards a guy that was flirting or coming on to me. I also have had dozens of girls I have befriended over the years and have never heard of those thoughts as well.

I know you put that he COULD be seen as this, but I think it is so rare, that it's irrelevant really. I think a woman is more likely to reject a guy because they are not attracted to him, not out of fear.

The only time, I have ever had that "pre-rape" feeling from a guy is when I am freaking myself out when walking in a parking garage alone at night. But that is because I watch entirely too much CSI, and NCIS. :)
 
ardour said:
Rejection hurts for everyone, but it is a different situation for us because of the way society views males at present and the current emphasis on 'rape culture', coercion, stalking, harassment and so on.

What is 'rape culture'?
 
Solivagant said:

I see.
Although I consider wiki full of BS, I couldn't but notice that 'rape culture' is associated to fiminism. No wonder people get mis-directed in the sense that they generalise practices that scarcely define a culture. It seems that it has become fashion to just throw concepts like 'rape culture', and as a concequence someone comes accross it and starts believing that everyone is part of 'rape culture' because you know, every man you encounter wants to violate your private space and dignity.
 
Wow, I wasn't expecting THIS many responses to my thread.

Anyway, if anyone was curious I went ahead and asked the girl out. Of course I was nervous, but we were enjoying a quiet chat together and I pretty much counted to three and went for it. Unfortunately it turns out she has a boyfriend, but I was able to keep it together and invited her out for some drinks with co-workers next week which she seemed open to. Funny thing is I really wasn't that upset when it was all over because I knew I wasn't being turned down because of something I did or did not do correct, but she simply wasn't available at the right place at the right time. If anything this was a confidence booster that the next time I meet someone I like it will probably be that much easier to ask them out, let alone the fact that I guess people do like me more than I tend to notice.
 
Drama said:
ardour said:
Rejection hurts for everyone, but it is a different situation for us because of the way society views males at present and the current emphasis on 'rape culture', coercion, stalking, harassment and so on.

What is 'rape culture'?

Pseudo-sociology.
 
PieBeNice said:
Drama said:
ardour said:
Rejection hurts for everyone, but it is a different situation for us because of the way society views males at present and the current emphasis on 'rape culture', coercion, stalking, harassment and so on.

What is 'rape culture'?

Pseudo-sociology.

tumblr_m7g4suWR6E1qfz30d.gif
 

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