please help me understand this guy

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Peaches

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After the n-th mysterious/crazy behavior from a guy, it's not like I am losing sleep over it but it would be nice to know if it is something that I do that turns guys bad, this one seemed so nice and harmless, I was really sad that he turned so mean. Perhaps you can see some cause-and-effect there?
This is the story (hope it doesn't come out long), with all the possible red flags:

Much younger guy, overweight but not ugly, some style, very cultured, didn't seem shy, very very funny, professional musician, single since a few months, "long" normal relationship before. We met socially and immediately got along without any pretense especially on my part, what do I need pretense for with a kid? although I don't look my age, so maybe he didn't realize the major age difference (15 years).

After meeting socially three times, connects on Facebook the second time, we meet to play together, really great time for me at least, and I suspect he leaned in to kiss me but wasn't sure. When I go home, I see a long message that I actually liked, saying "I really like you and would like to know you better, if you like me a little bit it would be great, if not I will be happy to hang out and make music". I became really nervous because every time a guy says he likes me out of the blue, something bad happens (yells, stands me up, get angry because I don't sleep with him on the spot and badmouths me with everyone else etc), and I answered him that i was having a difficult period, kind of depressed and didn't feel like dating but i would love to know him better.
Fast forward 3 weeks: we meet three times, two to play and once with a friend of his (also close to my age), very nice, very normal I have a lot of fun. We chat sometimes on Facebook but, even if a bit flirty on both sides, nothing personal.
Another strange feeling comes one night when he writes something like "you know too many things" and " that will always make you unhappy", and then he apologizes saying that he is in a bad mood.

I try to leave hints to start talking about my life situation that is a bit particular (struggling to regain health with a chronic illness) but he doesn't
bite, and I try to share my enthusiasm about fitness (also in the hope that he loses weight, because as he is now, I couldn't see how I could find him physically attractive, maybe by falling head over heels in love, but I didn't see that happening) but he didn't talk about it and he never asked any questions.
After the 4th meeting, where we play and we go out with another of his friends (unlike me, he has friends) he sees my scooter, which is a very pretty disability scooter, is surprised but also doesn't ask any questions, even if I say something like "just ask! (winkle)".

He didn't also ask questions about my sentimental situation if I was seeing someone, my view on relationships or guys, nothing. He did mention his previous relationship, how he was not happy and they split after 3 years, but didn't inquire about mine. I try to keep conversation light but also not avoid "serious' talk, nothing.

Another slightly weird thing is that, unlike other guys who expressed interest, he never Likes or comments on anything I write on Facebook, even if he is kind of active. Still, he seeks me to chat and it is usually him who initiates a conversation (i did too, but him more).


Last weekend the bad thing happens: we meet at his place, he seems in a strange mood, very sarcastic, we try the piece that we wanted to prepare and he starts doing some very difficult improvisations. I try to keep up, because I am a perfectionist, but unlike him I never went to the Conservatory and I just don't know how to do some things. I stop a couple of times asking him if he wants to share what is he trying to do so that I can understand, and he says something vague like "I don't want to make you feel inferior, don't be intimidated" and then starts again with even more difficult things without explanation, no mention that I am clearly getting upset. Because I DO feel inferior, I bite my lip and try to keep up, and it gets more and more difficult, and then he repeats two more times "you shouldn't feel intimidated" (is that what he was trying to do?!) and then I prepare for leaving, I am shaking, he doesn't really apologizes, sends an sms saying " the next time it will be better" I don't even bother answering because I am busy crying for an hour, after that no more contact, and now it is a week.


Now, I don't need mean guys in my life so I am not in a hurry to see him again, ever, but any idea why this really nice guy could have done something like that? It really seemed intentional, he was observing me getting more and more upset, and didn't do anything. I really can't imagine behaving like that with someone I like, especially for no apparent reason. If he just decided that I was a dead-end street, couldn't he just have said that he was busy and didn't have time to meet anymore? Why be mean?

Ahaha, this is like a novel!

I totally understand if nobody has time to read this. Maybe I will cancel it later.
 
I read through it and to me it seems this guy has issues...

I think you are better off trying to find somebody else to practise with. Sorry to hear it didn't work out very well, but some people are hard to read.
 
Perhaps you were too quick to identify him as "a nice guy" Peaches, it just took you awhile to see his inner gardenia.

The "I don't want to make you feel inferior, don't be intimidated" comments are truly tactless and lack class, if he was a stand up guy he would help you get through the tough stuff. Last week I took the lady I've been getting to know on a hike that was bit strenuous- when we got to the tougher spots in the canyon I either carried her through the water or helped her find an alternate path. Too me it's as simple as that, if someone you like can't match your abilities you carry them through the tough areas or help them find a way.

Skid the dude, he's not worth your thoughts.
 
Peaches said:
we try the piece that we wanted to prepare and he starts doing some very difficult improvisations. I try to keep up, because I am a perfectionist, but unlike him I never went to the Conservatory and I just don't know how to do some things. I stop a couple of times asking him if he wants to share what is he trying to do so that I understand, and he says something vague like "I don't want to make you feel inferior, don't be intimidated" and then starts again with even more difficult things without explanation, no mention that I am clearly getting upset. Because I do feel inferior, I bite my lip and try to keep up, and it gets more and more difficult, and then he repeats two more times "you shouldn't feel intimidated" (is that what he was trying to do?!) and then I prepare for leaving, I am shaking, he doesn't really apologizes, sends an sms saying " the next time it will be better" I don't even bother answering because I am busy crying for an hour, after that no more contact, and now it is a week.

Coming from someone who played an instrument from a very young age and spent a lot of time in the competition circuit getting to know professional musicians, this behavior seems fairly common. There's a competitive nature to musical performance that can sometimes be cruel and elitist, but that overall improves the quality of the performers that make it. If he made it through a program like that you may just be getting to know that side of his musical personality. He also may just be trying to push you, which is sometimes difficult for both parties.

The thing is it's not his place to push you, and his motivations may be questionable. Like, in his mind if he manages to elevate your skill and ability he may think that you'll attach yourself to him and the two of you will end up together. Or, he may be frustrated by the fact that you've been unable to reciprocate the feelings he's expressed towards you and might be revenging himself in a very passive aggressive way.

Also, it doesn't sound to me whether you were entirely clear with him about your feelings. If he's expressed his interest in you and he's waiting for you to make up your mind either way but you haven't, it means that his feelings are basically on hold, which can be extremely frustrating. It sounds like both of you need to have a very frank discussion about what your feelings are for each other and make a decision regarding what you want out of the relationship. If it means friends and just that then fine, if it's lovers, then that's fine too, or it could be friends right now with a possible romantic development in the future. Just lay it all out there and it might improve.
 
one maybe naive question: how can he possibly have any real feeling for me after meeting twice? And how comes someone who has feelings for someone else is not in the least interested in how she lives and why on earth does she posts all the time about overcoming obstacles in pages about chronic illness? How is it possible to have a conversation about feelings if he seems to avoid personal talk? Looks weird to me.


WildernessWildChild said:
Last week I took the lady I've been getting to know on a hike that was bit strenuous- when we got to the tougher spots in the canyon I either carried her through the water or helped her find an alternate path.

you are such a gentleman, there should be more like you around ;)
 
I dunno, I gave the best explanation I could. People are weird.
 
I wouldn't be too quick to judge. Could have had an off night or had some personal things going on. Still he wasn't acting very nice.

I also agree with jjseaa. When I was learning instruments I would be thrown in with far more experienced people doing a lot of improv and "jamming" kind of practice. They would tell me the same things. Like you said, you're a perfectionist so you tried to keep up with what he was doing. You could have done your own thing and let him do his. He obviously wasn't expecting you to be able to keep up. That's why he said to not be intimidated. As long as it goes together. I dunno. I really don't think what he said was that bad. I remember being so bad that all I could do was keep tempo while playing like one or two notes. No one cared. It's just about playing together.

Also, as for why he doesn't seem interested in your personal life. Maybe once he was rejected he just assumed you weren't interested in getting that close. Who knows. :/
 
Peaches said:
This is the story (hope it doesn't come out long), with all the possible red flags:

Much younger guy, overweight but not ugly, some style, very cultured, didn't seem shy, very very funny, professional musician, single since a few months, "long" normal relationship before. We met socially and immediately got along without any pretense especially on my part, what do I need pretense for with a kid? although I don't look my age, so maybe he didn't realize the major age difference (15 years).

After meeting socially three times, connects on Facebook the second time, we meet to play together, really great time for me at least, and I suspect he leaned in to kiss me but wasn't sure. When I go home, I see a long message that I actually liked, saying "I really like you and would like to know you better, if you like me a little bit it would be great, if not I will be happy to hang out and make music". I became really nervous because every time a guy says he likes me out of the blue, something bad happens (yells, stands me up, get angry because I don't sleep with him on the spot and badmouths me with everyone else etc), and I answered him that i was having a difficult period, kind of depressed and didn't feel like dating but i would love to know him better.

It sounds like a combination of things... By saying "....didn't feel like dating..." you basically told him you weren't interested, at least for now... With that said, you even said you were a bit "flirty" on both sides with his friend... And you dropped a few hints about his weight, or at least about fitness stuff... Put the whole thing together & he may have picked up on a hint, might be wrong hint but hints after all, that you weren't really interested in him because of his weight... I'm not saying that was your true intention but people have tendency to read between the lines... Reasons why he, and/or his friends, didn't mention anything about your disability is because they may felt as though it's not their place to ask & you'll share in your own time if you felt more comfortable... After all, you said it yourself, you guys only hung out 3 or 4 times... When you point out, or at least drop a hint, about someone's weight & in a way say something about not really interested in dating, but be a bit flirty with someone else, that can put someone on a defensive mode... What if he mentions few times about how few of his bad experiences getting into relationships with women with kids... Though he may not directly point the comment at you, you might be inclined to feel little weird about it & put up a defense... You may not but he may react differently to different things... This might be his way of lashing out or dealing with the rejection he may have felt... After all, the other guy was his friend... His friend may have said or mentioned something without meaning to imply something... Something like, "You know your friend was pretty funny... We even jokingly flirted & we had a great time when we hung out last time..." Sounds harmless enough on his part but he may have thought, "Well, she said she was going through rough time & wasn't really ready for dating but he was flirty with my friend... What's up with that???" It may not have been a fair assumption but at least it may give you an idea of how he thinks...

I'm only going by what you have said & I'm sure there's more to the story... At least going by what you have shared, like I mentioned, it could be possible & that he felt a bit rejected & that was his way of dealing with it... May be this is his way of keeping you at an arms length knowing you're not ready to date, at least not him anyway... To add to it, he may feel as though being that you guys really haven't hung out all that much, it's not his place to inquire about you illness, thinking that you're not interested in him anyway... I'm not saying that's right... I'm just saying that might be one possible case...
 
I think the guy is clueless about how to communicate and he takes no effort to really get to know the parts of you that seem to matter the most. In contrast, whenever I meet someone I like, be it a date or just a friend, I always engage in personal talk because that's what I enjoy about conversation. This guy doesn't appear to like that kind of talk.

Peaches said:
one maybe naive question: how can he possibly have any real feeling for me after meeting twice?

I feel that people can become attached to the idea of being with a person as opposed to the person themselves, if that makes sense. They have an image of what they like, and suddenly they see someone who seems to fit the bill even before knowing a thing about him/her. So, I think it's quite easy for someone to have feelings rather quick.

Peaches said:
And how comes someone who has feelings for someone else is not in the least interested in how she lives and why on earth does she posts all the time about overcoming obstacles in pages about chronic illness?

One of two things: He's completely, mind-numbingly clueless, or he's scared to talk about these things with you.

Peaches said:
How is it possible to have a conversation about feelings if he seems to avoid personal talk? Looks weird to me.

It's weird to me, too. I can't imagine being interested in anyone (once again, as either a date or a friend,) yet avoiding any personal talk. That's strange to me, but then again, maybe personal talk makes him uncomfortable.

I feel for you that you had such an uncomfortable experience.
 
something about not really interested in dating, but be a bit flirty with someone else, that can put someone on a defensive mode...
[/quote]

all the flirting was with him, not with someone else, exactly to make him understand that it wasn't a rejection, it was just : I d like to know you better

but actually this whole explanation makes sense - sigh, it is so difficult to transmit the right messages, and even to transmit the general message: I want to transmit the right messages, if something looks strange please ask - is not enough.

I never made any hints about the weight, only complimented him on his diet and when he goes for runs and how I envy his character, and told him that I am trying to lose weight too (5 kl against 50, maybe that was a clueless comment). Actually I really enjoyed his company, and it's difficult for me to find someone like that, so I was really trying to see if I could like him anyway.

what is the right answer when someone tells you that they like you and you like them too but want to spend some time with them first to know if they are freaking head cases?

from now on I will only go after those who DON't like me
 
PS: message to guys: if you want to tell someone that you like them, don't do that over Facebook chat…

by the way, thank you for the advice, my brain hurts less now
 
Peaches said:
all the flirting was with him, not with someone else, exactly to make him understand that it wasn't a rejection, it was just : I d like to know you better

but actually this whole explanation makes sense - sigh, it is so difficult to transmit the right messages, and even to transmit the general message: I want to transmit the right messages, if something looks strange please ask - is not enough.

I never made any hints about the weight, only complimented him on his diet and when he goes for runs and how I envy his character, and told him that I am trying to lose weight too (5 kl against 50, maybe that was a clueless comment). Actually I really enjoyed his company, and it's difficult for me to find someone like that, so I was really trying to see if I could like him anyway.

what is the right answer when someone tells you that they like you and you like them too but want to spend some time with them first to know if they are freaking head cases?

from now on I will only go after those who DON't like me

Ahhh... That was misunderstanding on my part... When I read the "flirty" part, I thought you were talking about his friend... Sorry about that... But the point is still the same... He might be getting a mixed message when one minute, he's being told you're not ready, yet another, he's being told you'd like to get to know him better & a bit of flirting going on... I can see how that could come across like a head game... I'm not accusing you of playing head games but I'm just saying, it could seem like that...

And just to touch up on what Case said... May be he's right... The guy is clueless... But then again, you have to consider different personalities as well... I can't help but to keep going back to number of times you guys have hung out... 3 or 4 times may not be enough for some people to really open up... Now, I'm not trying to beat the dead horse here & I'm certainly not trying to pick on you or your words... But for him, may be that "not ready for dating scene" stuck in his head & combine that with being too early or not hanging out enough times to really open up to you... That in itself may be is enough for him not to get personal or get into deeper conversation... And that can lead into, as I mentioned before, not really feeling comfortable enough to ask you what feels like a very intimate, personal things, like your medical or health issues or past relationships... Some people don't like prying into other people's lives because they don't feel it's their place to ask...

Being clueless is hardly a "negative" trait, at least I don't think so... It could be very annoying for some... Sometimes with people like that, myself included as being completely clueless, you just need to come straight out & say it... May be you have... "like to get to know you better" is pretty straight forward... May be he's in different degree of "clueless"ness (?)... He might feel intimidated to share his feelings with you... If you open up a bit, he might feel little more inclined to open up as well... I personally don't like all that dancing around... Though I could pick up on some signs, I'd like a straight forward girls... I try to be that with people I meet, weather I'm interested in them in romantic way or other wise... I've told a girl on a first date that I really like her & I think we should be a couple... To my surprise, on few occasions, she smiled & said, "Well, that's a bit abrupt but I guess that's the whole point, to see if we like each other or not... Ok... I think I know enough about you to have an answer but could you gimme till tomorrow?"... And she did text me next day with an answer... Point here is, he likes you... You know he likes you because he basically said it point blank... Well, let him know you need some time to sort out your feelings... I only say that because you said you're trying to see if you could like him... Let him know you value his friendship too much to mess it up by rushing into things... I don't know... Those normal stuff you tell people when you're not ready but you don't wanna give up either...
 
well, I am pretty straight forward I have to say, but if I say something personal and this guy replies with a joke
it's not like you can push information down the throat to the other person/ I did ask questions to him, but he didn't seem happy of that and didn't ask anything back.
I don't even think he likes me anymore, I don't see any signs of that

btw you sound like a great guy, not at all "clueless" :)

Also, nice clueless people don't just get mean with someone else and then disappear, it doesn't add up
 
Peaches said:
well, I am pretty straight forward I have to say, but if I say something personal and this guy replies with a joke
it's not like you can push information down the throat to the other person/ I did ask questions to him, but he didn't seem happy of that and didn't ask anything back.
I don't even think he likes me anymore, I don't see any signs of that

btw you sound like a great guy, not at all "clueless" :)

Also, nice clueless people don't just get mean with someone else and then disappear, it doesn't add up

Now I'm starting to get a little better picture... May be I missed the part but I didn't know he would respond with a joke when you're trying to be a bit on a serious side or at least asking personal questions... Ok... Let's go this way... I'm in no way what so ever trying to defend this guy... I'm just trying to point out all the possibilities... And of course I've been dead wrong & came out looking like an idiot before so I'm certainly open to that possibility... With that said, you know how some people deal with issues by making fun of it? Some over-weight people recite "fat jokes" when they're around group of people, or their friends? It's their way of dealing with insecurities... May be it's combination of things... May be he's only mentioning all the "right" relationships he's been in or telling/showing you "right side" of the things just to deal with his insecurities, including telling jokes... I believe you're absolutely right... People just don't "turn"...

There's an old story about scorpion & a frog... One day, there's been a long period of rain & where they live started to flood... They needed to get to the safe place... So they start walking towards the hill... They come across a section where it's flooded... They need to get across but scorpion doesn't know how to swim... So he asks the frog, "If you put me on your back & get us across this flood, I'll protect you any anything from now on"... Frog thought about it for a second & said, "But you're a scorpion... What if you sting me... We'll both drown & die"... So scorpion said, "Why would I do that? That would kill me too & that doesn't make sense, does it?"... Frog thought that made sense so he agreed to get both across the flood... About half way across, frog starts to feel this horrible burning sensation on his back & he starts to lose feelings on his legs... He turns to scorpion & says, "What have you done? You have stung me & now killed us both..." As they start to drown, scorpion says, "I'm so sorry... When I get scared, I sting... It's in my nature... I couldn't help myself...!!!"

People will do what's in their nature... It's only a matter of time before their true nature surfaces... When they're backed into a corner or tested, you can tell a lot about people by how they re-act... May be you're seeing something in this guy & your guts telling you something... You know the old saying, trust your instincts...

By the way, thank you for the compliment... I don't know what to say to that... It's not everyday that I get a nice compliment like that... :D May be your judge of character is a bit off after all, lol... :D "Great Guy"... Wow... Well, I'll take it when I can get it... Again, Thank You...!!!
 
well, I went back through the whole story and I think I understand (where is the lightbulb icon?):

in the two days previous to the unfortunate event with this guy we had: one half serious conversation, in which he managed to drop there the sentence "when I think of you I feel a sense of destiny", and the following day I had an accident (by the way he didn't comment on that on Facebook, didn't even notice until I told him) and he called and we spent half an hour talking on the phone, which hasn't happened before.

This probably was too much closeness for the poor guy, and he felt the need to push me away. Now I see from his running app online that he went for two consecutive days running exactly in the area where I live, which, by summing all the addends, gives us as a result: a big loser with commitment issues who goes back and forth, close in words but not in facts.

My grandmother once managed to say that guys would come close because "their little package was itching", (free translation) unfortunately that seems to be true each time. I wish I could inspire someone who says he wants to know me better to actually come closer, maybe I want too much intimacy, I want to talk about stuff, there must be someone like that somewhere.

Anyway, commitmentphobes don't deserve one single minute of regret, and they are the biggest losers to bring other people's hopes up only to turn them down later, so I won't think about this person ever again. Too bad if he had a nice relationship for three years before, it is clear that he (and no one else for that matter) wants a relationship with me. I will just take all the good times that I can get, in this case it was one month.
 
Dunno, I bring that out in guys :(

yes, life is easy, you want something, take it, don't want it, walk away
 
I don't get how he is a commitment phobe. You turned him down at the beginning right?. Maybe I'm misinterpreting what happened.

So many women will not be direct when rejecting someone that it's usually, if they don't say yes, then its a no. Saves a lot of trouble and wasted time. Are you guys just hanging out as friends? Or are these dates to you? If it's a date then call it a date.
 

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