Post-Traumatic Embitterment Disorder

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Solivagant

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I learned about something called Post-Traumatic Embitterment Disorder last night. It is not yet a disorder, but a proposed disorder.

'Posttraumatic embitterment disorder (PTED) is a proposed disorder modeled after posttraumatic stress disorder. Some psychiatrists are proposing this as a mental disorder because they believe there are people who have become so bitter they can barely function. PTED patients do not fit the formal criteria for PTSD and can be clinically distinguished from it, prompting the description of a new and separate disorder.

German psychiatrist Michael Linden, who has conducted research on the proposed disorder, describes its effect on people: "They feel the world has treated them unfairly. It's one step more complex than anger. They're angry plus helpless." He says that people with the disorder are almost treatment resistant and that; "These people usually don't come to treatment because 'the world has to change, not me.'" He believes that 1 to 2 percent of people are affected at any given time, and explains that, although sufferers of the disorder tend to have a desire for vengeance, "...Revenge is not a treatment."

PTED so far has no official status and is not listed in the DSM-IV-TR or ICD-10-CM.'

What do you think of this kind of bitterness becoming a disorder?

I don't deny that bitterness can affect people in this way, I've experienced it first-hand. But I'm concerned that assigning it the label of "disorder" could add to the perception of helplessness these people have, and end up enabling them to stay bitter rather than seek change. I could see the attitude becoming something like "I can't help but be bitter and angry towards <insert person or group>, I've got a disorder." I'm concerned that it could be used (at least in the person's mind) as a justification for words or actions taken against other people. Or even at some point as a legal defense: "I killed that person out of revenge, but I've got Post-Traumatic Embitterment Disorder, so lighter sentence." I could see someone like Elliot Rodger using that.

I'm very much a proponent of mental health awareness, but I also tend to be very wary when new disorders are proposed. Sometimes I think they are taken too far, like we're starting to call any aspect of a person that's not ideal a "disorder".

Thoughts?
 
Maybe they want to call it a disorder so that it can have specific treatment, but I don't agree that it is the right strategy on this case. I don't even agree it's even related to "bitterness" at all. Bitterness is a common emotion in the human spectrum; bitter people who are a threat to themselves and others (which would justify the need of a "disorder" label) have something else in the mix that makes them think that they are right in taking revenge or hurting themselves -- like other mental illnesses which cause shallowness of emotions and lack of empathy (like some forms of depression), or maybe even personality disorders.

IMO, simply being bitter would not make a person step down to the point of barely functioning, the same way simply being sad won't make a healthy person stop functioning; sadness + depression, on the other hand...
 
While I'm certainly no expert on mental disorders, I agree that this one opens up opportunities for people to simply blame their misbehaviour on. And after having read that definition, I'm sure there are a whole lot of people that would fit this description perfectly - or would try to fit themselves into it. I'm not sure about the helplessness regarding something like bitterness. But I don't think every disorder is equal in terms of propability of cure or successful treatment either. This proposed PTED could be one of the "easier" ones, if I may put it that way. In the end, it's up to the individual. Whether he/she wants to be treated or just uses the diagnosis as an excuse to wallow in his/her misery.

I suppose the current legal system is already plagued by people falsely declaring themselves as mentally ill or criminally insane to escape justice. So is the health and welfare system in a number of countries where people can use it to loiter around at home. It's a shame that people who actually suffer from these disorders are robbed of their credibility by simulants and plain attention whores. I suppose there is little to be done about. I reckon a mental disorder will always stay easier to fake than a solely physical condition.

Just got reminded of that story of a woman that claimed to have been diagnosed with PTSD after cyberstalking and offensive commentary on Twitter. Go figure...cause I don't know what to think about this anymore.
 
This is very interesting. I know of situations where I or someone else has been so bitter that we could not function in a certain circumstance. With that being said, I agree with Rodent.


Rodent said:
While I'm certainly no expert on mental disorders, I agree that this one opens up opportunities for people to simply blame their misbehaviour on. And after having read that definition, I'm sure there are a whole lot of people that would fit this description perfectly - or would try to fit themselves into it. I'm not sure about the helplessness regarding something like bitterness. But I don't think every disorder is equal in terms of propability of cure or successful treatment either. This proposed PTED could be one of the "easier" ones, if I may put it that way. In the end, it's up to the individual. Whether he/she wants to be treated or just uses the diagnosis as an excuse to wallow in his/her misery.

With the definition of mental disorder being so broad, technically I believe it would fit as one, but I think that bitterness someone feels towards a person or situation can be categorized under a preexisting one. Just like other mental disorders you are going to have people react to having it in different ways. You are going to have people that use it as an excuse, people that deny they have it, people that work their way through it, people that have take medication for it, etc.

I guess what I am getting at is: Why add another one to the list? I'm sure bitterness is a symptom of another mental disorder.
 
Solivagant said:
What do you think of this kind of bitterness becoming a disorder?

I don't deny that bitterness can affect people in this way, I've experienced it first-hand. But I'm concerned that assigning it the label of "disorder" could add to the perception of helplessness these people have, and end up enabling them to stay bitter rather than seek change. I could see the attitude becoming something like "I can't help but be bitter and angry towards <insert person or group>, I've got a disorder." I'm concerned that it could be used (at least in the person's mind) as a justification for words or actions taken against other people. Or even at some point as a legal defense: "I killed that person out of revenge, but I've got Post-Traumatic Embitterment Disorder, so lighter sentence." I could see someone like Elliot Rodger using that.

I'm very much a proponent of mental health awareness, but I also tend to be very wary when new disorders are proposed. Sometimes I think they are taken too far, like we're starting to call any aspect of a person that's not ideal a "disorder".

Thoughts?


I full agree with you. Bitterness is not a disorder. However, I do feel that people can become so bitter that they become more susceptible to mental illnesses, such as depression, anxiety, etc.
 
I actually support this new idea for a classification, though I'm not sure neurologically that it'd work the same as PTSD. Doesn't sound like there's any flashbacks, but maybe avoidance of the thing that harmed the person in the past, which is similar. But also no hypervigilance like in PTSD. It probably works in a different part of the brain than PTSD does.

If it was a disorder then people could get help for it. Labeling things is a way that mental health professionals can bill insurance, and keep helping the person. Sometimes the mental health professional tells the client what their disorder is, sometimes not. It depends on the person. Mostly disorder classifications, in terms of mental health professionals, are for the purpose of billing insurance. It's also for the purpose of being able to do research studies on which therapies are most effective for that particular disorder. So, by giving it a name, you're letting psychologists and counseling professionals do studies on how to help.

I do think that people become so embittered that they reflect off anything that comes their way. It's nearly impossible to get through to the person. By creating this category, then treatment plans could be made-up to specifically target this, and unencapsulate the person from this world-view…so they could live a more healthy and happy life.

Disorders are only disorders when A) it negatively affects the people in the client's life, B) It affects the client's day-to-day functioning and C) something else I forget that I learned in abnormal psych class.

DSM labels are not to say "You're broken." but rather for the purpose of treatment and bettering the person's life.
 
I think we have seen examples of people on these very forums of people who admit to being bitter to the point where it was consuming them. Surely a disorder label in the DSM-IV would not be a bad thing as it's just one step toward wellness.
 
Case said:
I think we have seen examples of people on these very forums of people who admit to being bitter to the point where it was consuming them. Surely a disorder label in the DSM-IV would not be a bad thing as it's just one step toward wellness.

My thoughts exactly, but I didn't want to say it and offend someone.

Also, they just came out with a new version so it's actually the DSM-V now. :)
 
SophiaGrace said:
I do think that people become so embittered that they reflect off anything that comes their way. It's nearly impossible to get through to the person. By creating this category, then treatment plans could be made-up to specifically target this, and unencapsulate the person from this world-view…so they could live a more healthy and happy life.

Case said:
I think we have seen examples of people on these very forums of people who admit to being bitter to the point where it was consuming them. Surely a disorder label in the DSM-IV would not be a bad thing as it's just one step toward wellness.


I agree.

I'm undecided about whether PTED should be a disorder or not, because I agree with most of Solivagant's concerns in her original post. But it does happen to people, whether you want to call it PTED or not. After years of loneliness and rejection, the bitterness builds up to such a degree that people begin to believe that the entire world (or in some cases a specific group, like a gender) are out to get them. It seems to border on paranoia at times. It's hard to get through to them when most of what they feel is anger, sadness and bitterness.

When you carry any negative emotion with you for years on end, it will effect your body and mind.

I think specific treatment plans would benefit people who can't see beyond their bitter feelings. If it did become a disorder, my fear is that it would be treated with Valium or some other drug. But I generally distrust doctors and meds, so that's a personal bias.

As for treatment plans, I'm not a psychiatrist, but I think forgiveness is key. People who have an overabundance of bitter and angry feelings have to want to forgive any perceived or real wrongdoings. If they don't want to forgive and move on, there's little hope. Logic and compassion rarely seems to work. Forgiveness can be difficult for anyone though, and doubly hard when your mind is clouded with negative emotions.
 
SophiaGrace said:
Also, they just came out with a new version so it's actually the DSM-V now. :)

Ah. Thank you for that. I'm so used to the DSM-IV-TR that I forgot the hub-bub when the DSM-V came out. :)
 
Case said:
I think we have seen examples of people on these very forums of people who admit to being bitter to the point where it was consuming them. Surely a disorder label in the DSM-IV would not be a bad thing as it's just one step toward wellness.

I support this view as well. Probably a fair number of us on here would, if we were completely honest with ourselves, admit to feeling overwhelmed with bitterness at times over our loneliness when, whatever we do to overcome our loneliness and to help ourselves to move on from it, doesn't work.
 
I've no objection to there being a special name for it, as a way to single out the issue. I guess I just can't reconcile myself to calling it a disorder yet.

What about loneliness, grief, stress, anger? These and others, at least to the level of severity that I've experienced them, could also qualify as disorders under these terms. They can cause dysfunction in a person's life, dysfunction in their relationships with others, and long-term physical health problems. In fact any negative emotion experienced in extreme measures can have these effects. I see no significant difference between them and bitterness. And some of them have already been assigned treatment programs (grief counselling, anger management, etc.) without being labelled as disorders, so I don't see the lack of such a label as being a major hindrance to treatment. (Although disclaimer: I don't know if some of these issues have become disorders now; I haven't read up on the DSM since college.) So where does the line get drawn between "disorder" and "human condition"?
 
Solivagant said:
I've no objection to there being a special name for it, as a way to single out the issue. I guess I just can't reconcile myself to calling it a disorder yet.

What about loneliness, grief, stress, anger? These and others, at least to the level of severity that I've experienced them, could also qualify as disorders under these terms. They can cause dysfunction in a person's life, dysfunction in their relationships with others, and long-term physical health problems. In fact any negative emotion experienced in extreme measures can have these effects. I see no significant difference between them and bitterness. And some of them have already been assigned treatment programs (grief counselling, anger management, etc.) without being labelled as disorders, so I don't see the lack of such a label as being a major hindrance to treatment. (Although disclaimer: I don't know if some of these issues have become disorders now; I haven't read up on the DSM since college.) So where does the line get drawn between "disorder" and "human condition"?

Yup.

You know...seems to me (and I'm no expert) but bitterness falls somewhat under paranoia (to some extent and in a more severe form..."the world/men/women/strangers/family all treat me unfairly) but more anger than anything else. I'm not certain that people who are bitter should be labeled as mentally ill. It just seems that a LOT of things cause either suffering or an impaired ability to function in ordinary life. Under that guideline, you can slap the "disorder" label on a plethora of issues that people struggle with.
 
Solivagant does bring up an interesting point. I wonder what the definition of a mental disorder is, is it a constallation of symptoms?
 
SophiaGrace said:
Solivagant does bring up an interesting point. I wonder what the definition of a mental disorder is, is it a constallation of symptoms?

"...either suffering or an impaired ability to function in ordinary life..."

I think that might be a loose definition.
 
EveWasFramed said:
SophiaGrace said:
Solivagant does bring up an interesting point. I wonder what the definition of a mental disorder is, is it a constallation of symptoms?

"...either suffering or an impaired ability to function in ordinary life..."

I think that might be a loose definition.

It is. You're right. My abnormal psych textbook in undergrad was more specific. I think I will ask a professor of mine what their opinon is and then respond back to this thread.
 
Ymir said:
IMO, simply being bitter would not make a person step down to the point of barely functioning,

I so disagree. I believe intense bitterness is a stage of PTSD recovery. It's the cognitive dissonance created from the anger stage moving into the acceptance stage. It's the conflict created by trying to process a gross injustice and accepting the defeat against your will. Everything becomes a fresia you as a final means of adaption. Bitterness IMO is a defence mechanism and it is no different than any other defence mechanism. The underlying PTSD is paralysing, to the point of suicide.
And I think things become "disorders" when they begin to affect your life in a negative way and interfere with your daily activities and social functioning.
 

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