Thread Rating:
  • 1 Vote(s) - 5 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Anyone else feel like they are always the one that doesn't belong?
#31
Firstly, I think Rainbows made some good points and I agree with her for the most part.

Despicable Me, I do agree with some of the things you say, because they make sense. However I think your approach is a little insulting. Different people at different ages see similar issues in life differently and we can only try to empathise and give advice based on our experiences and what we know is best, but we don't have to put them down (or along these lines before you tell me I'm twisting your words, Despicable Me) for feeling the way they do, even at that young age.

(05-05-2015, 07:27 AM)Despicable Me Wrote: No offense, but I honestly can't even take that seriously. You're 21 and you've already "wasted your youth" and your "'best years' are passing by"?
The only way I can really address this is with a stern "No words can express what I'm feeling right now..." stare. I wish they made a (non)smiley-face for that.

Maybe this 21 year old dude doesn't know what he's talking about, or maybe he does because he feels exactly as he described. And us older people know a little better sometimes, but that doesn't mean we disregard their feelings by not taking them seriously. You think he was joking around with his feelings? If you were in his shoes and wanted people to just hear you out but they won't take you seriously just because you're young, how would you feel?

Let me just touch on some of the things I don't quite think is the best way to put it in order to help someone on this forum.

(05-05-2015, 07:27 AM)Despicable Me Wrote: So please, don't sit here and tell us that you've wasted your youth away, nor your "best years", when you haven't even begun those things yet. It is distasteful and in some ways very disrespectful.

No. You don't sit there and tell someone, no matter of what age, that it is distasteful and disrespectful of them to express their feelings. As long as they do not insult anyone in particular, I think it is perfectly fine to share and vent. This dude is merely talking and sharing about his own life and hopelessness.

(05-05-2015, 08:05 AM)Despicable Me Wrote:
(05-05-2015, 07:31 AM)Rainbows Wrote: It is not because you're only 21 you cannot feel worry, pain or loneliness.
Different ages, different worries. You can't tell someone not to worry or feel shit because you're at a different lifestage.
I didn't say that.

Oh but that's the implication that seems to be made by you from the way you sound or write your post there.

(05-05-2015, 07:27 AM)Despicable Me Wrote:
(05-05-2015, 07:31 AM)Rainbows Wrote: How can you tell him he's disrespectful when you don't know his whole story?
I don't need to know the whole story, I can only go by what he has said and what I heard was a little disrespectful.
And don't manipulate what I'm saying. It's not just disrespectful to others, it's also extremely disrespectful to himself. He is essentially throwing away something beautiful before he has even used it.
It's like book-booking. You are throwing away tons of information and education and ideas and beauty just because you're too ignorant to enjoy it yourself. It's disrespectful to so many people.

See that's where you're wrong. You do need to know his whole life story and be in his freaking shoes to be able to judge him and his situation to say that it's disrespectful. Otherwise, your judgement is baseless and is just insulting to the OP and anyone else who can relate to the OP.

Maybe even taken at face value what he said seemed disrespectful to you, but that might just be your view on it. It doesn't mean it's disrespectful to others or himself - you can only speak for yourself.

(05-05-2015, 07:27 AM)Despicable Me Wrote:
(05-05-2015, 07:31 AM)Rainbows Wrote: What's wrong with him being jealous over other people who did have friends? At this age, it's important to have friends! To be able to relate to people and be able to open yourself up.
Being jealous of anything is neither productive nor advantageous. It's obviously just a lingering emotion of doubt and self-hatred. There's no reason why I should not tell people to get over that.

Just because jealousy isn't the most positive emotion to have, doesn't mean that you disregard it. It still happens, whether you like it or not. Humans feel jealousy, even I do sometimes. If you say you don't, well good for ya. But that doesn't mean you disregard other people who feel this way. They are not you, and they cannot be like you to easily brush off a particular feeling or emotion.

(05-05-2015, 07:27 AM)Despicable Me Wrote: There's a reason I'm disregarding this mentality and it's precisely because it has no basis in reality.

No basis in reality? Are you serious? Wow, don't you know it all.

(05-05-2015, 07:27 AM)Despicable Me Wrote: But you don't 'have to' take my advice if you don't want. No one said you had to take it, did they? You decide for yourself if you want to be miserable and stay where you are, or if you want to take people's advice, and who's advice you want to take. That's your choice and it's your decision because it's your life. If anyone has told you any different than that, bullies or not, they were wrong.

Your advice is intertwined with words disregarding the OP's feelings and emotions as well as his reality.

(05-05-2015, 07:27 AM)Despicable Me Wrote: Anyone can do that, you know? So just quit it. Stick with what I really said and reply to that or just don't reply at all.

I think I have done this thus far, sticking to what you really said that I don't feel were quite... helpful.
#32
(05-05-2015, 03:46 AM)Blondeblue73 Wrote: I think the worst loneliness I have ever felt, was last month when I had to tell my pre-op nurse that I would have no one to come and collect me after my operation, so they're having to arrange my overnight stay. If I had an accident with the anaesthetic, would anyone need to be alerted? Am concerned about getting home next day and dreading how lonely that's going to feel, likely in a ward filled with other patients receiving countless gifts and visits. So sick of feeling invisible. I know I'm a great person. Why do other people have 'group membership' meted out to them without them making any effort? I'm so tired of making effort I don't want to make. I'm tired of taking the lowest number of minutes on my mobile contract each month, because I don't need to make or receive many calls.

Same or very similar situation here.
First of all, on a practical level would the hospital organise an ambulance to take you home? If not, could you take a taxi?
Once at home, do you have enough food in to tide you over till you can go out? If not, maybe mention this to a nurse and s/he may be able to suggest a local charity which could help out for a couple of weeks. Or you could shop for food online.
However, it is the emotional side which is the hardest to deal with. Like you I am on my own and have no one to help me out at bad times. It really does make you feel like you don't matter to anyone when you have no emergency contact, no family to rally round to make sure you are ok. I know I am online only, but I am here if you ever want to pm me. I had major surgery in 2012 and am as people-deprived as you are, so if you need to vent to someone who knows what it is like to be in your shoes, I am here for you.
#33
(05-05-2015, 06:45 PM)ladyforsaken Wrote: Despicable Me, I do agree with some of the things you say, because they make sense. However I think your approach is a little insulting. Different people at different ages see similar issues in life differently and we can only try to empathise and give advice based on our experiences and what we know is best, but we don't have to put them down (or along these lines before you tell me I'm twisting your words, Despicable Me) for feeling the way they do, even at that young age.
I wasn't putting anyone down or insulting them. I thought I made that clear already.

(05-05-2015, 06:45 PM)ladyforsaken Wrote: Maybe this 21 year old dude doesn't know what he's talking about, or maybe he does because he feels exactly as he described. And us older people know a little better sometimes, but that doesn't mean we disregard their feelings by not taking them seriously. You think he was joking around with his feelings? If you were in his shoes and wanted people to just hear you out but they won't take you seriously just because you're young, how would you feel?
I'd feel embarassed for saying something so stupid, knowing that the other person was right and that I shouldn't look at it that way. That's how I'd feel. And that's the sort of response that I'd want to get.

And if they get defensive like Rainbows did? And most of all, twisting other people's words rather than reading what is really there. That's something I personally think they need to work out, too. Being unable to take criticism properly is something that effects a lot of people. It seems, from my experience, that it is particularly true here on this forum. And it's an issue that needs to be worked out and is a different issue altogether.

Am I supposed to tip-toe around every single person's feelings here just because it's a loneliness forum? That's not me. That's not going to happen.
Maybe I suck at social interactions, but if so that's probably just because I have lived the vast majority of my life in solitude.

And no, I never stated nor implied I couldn't take them seriously because they were young. That is, directly, twisting of my words again.
I couldn't take that comment seriously because there was literally no logical consistency to it. It was an irrational feeling developed out of fear. And I feel the way I approached it is a proper response to eliminate irrational feelings like that.
Maybe it's not the way you'd go about it, but why do I need to be like you?
The topic itself is about feeling like the one who doesn't belong, right? Expecting others to be like you is exactly the reason why someone might feel like they don't belong. So I would not expect anyone to be doing this here.

(05-05-2015, 06:45 PM)ladyforsaken Wrote: Let me just touch on some of the things I don't quite think is the best way to put it in order to help someone on this forum.

No. You don't sit there and tell someone, no matter of what age, that it is distasteful and disrespectful of them to express their feelings. As long as they do not insult anyone in particular, I think it is perfectly fine to share and vent. This dude is merely talking and sharing about his own life and hopelessness.
Again, as I already told Rainbows, do you know who those things are most disrespectful to?
If you'd read my post to Rainbows you'd know. It is the person speaking them.

By suggesting you've already wasted your life away when you 'obviously' have your entire life ahead of you it is disrespectful to yourself. It is like saying you feel like giving up, like you feel you can't do any better than giving up.
It's like saying you feel no one's life is worth anything.

As I expressed before, it's like book-burning. It's like burning a bunch of books because you're too stubborn to care about them, because you developed this irrational idea that they are bad for no reason at all.

There is no reasoning behind trying to baby or tip-toe around this.
If I saw someone book-burning, I'd yell at them, too. If I saw someone saying their life was over, while still living it, I'm going to yell at them, too. If I saw someone trying to kill themselves, you'll be damn sure I'm going to yell at them for it after I stop them.

But I'm not above learning from my own mistakes. If you think I'm a jerk, that's fine. Show me a better way to get through to these people and I won't just accept it, I will embrace it. But from my experience sometimes a little 'tough love' is what they need.

(05-05-2015, 06:45 PM)ladyforsaken Wrote: Oh but that's the implication that seems to be made by you from the way you sound or write your post there.
Some people read what they want to read, even if it's not really there.

I'm not an ageist or any nonsense like that. I don't care what age you are, if you tell me that your life is over before you've even tried living then I'm going to be the guy who tells you that you're wrong. I'm going to be that guy who thinks you're being ridiculous. And I'll be that guy who tries to help you realize how irrational and nonsensical you're being while simultaneously pointing you in the proper direction to see reality.

Why is it that my advice is ignored as if it I'm just here condemning someone? Come on now. I think that advice you're disregarding was actually pretty good. Look at the message as a whole and you'll see for yourself what is really there and what isn't. Don't just look at a few sentences or skim the post and make assumptions. See it for what it really is as a whole, not in tiny pieces. See the meaning behind it. See the love behind it.

Do either of you really think with the advice I was giving that I was trying to be a jerk? You should both know better than that.
Or maybe you don't. Maybe you have trouble seeing people for who they really are? If that's true then make a topic about that and I'll try to help you deal with those problems, too. Every different problem requires a different approach, and every individual is unique as well. That's why I really don't believe in this tip-toeing thing. I feel that method is only good in certain circumstances.
Inevitably, you have your ways and I have mine.

(05-05-2015, 06:45 PM)ladyforsaken Wrote: See that's where you're wrong. You do need to know his whole life story and be in his freaking shoes to be able to judge him and his situation to say that it's disrespectful. Otherwise, your judgement is baseless and is just insulting to the OP and anyone else who can relate to the OP.
You're making the assumption that I am judging 'him'. What is it that actually makes you think that? I'm curious.

I don't judge people. That's not me. I accept people for who they are, what they are, and can only go off of what they tell me.
If I find that someone's comments are out of line with reality, I will tell them that. Above all things I think the best approach to helping someone is helping them to see reality and what is really there. To cast away their delusions so they can see things the way they really are. It doesn't mean they are any less of a person, nor that I think they are any less than that, if they happened to be lost at some point in their lives. They are still, to me, just a person who needs help. I was once, too. Everyone makes mistakes. We are all prone to this. I am not making myself the exception, there are absolutely no exceptions.

The real problem here, from what I can see, is why both you and Rainbows so immediately jump to the conclusion that I'm judging people? Again, why you ignore the advice that is there and don't look at the whole post, but focus on these minor issues. Why you have to twist words around?

Maybe, yeah, maybe I'm a jerk sometimes. But I'm also a jerk who sees through people and helps the ones who need the help.
Again, if you can do better.... Show me. I'll shutup and learn. I make mistakes like everyone else. So why is it you're judging me, assuming that, like you are implying, that criticism assumes judgement? Do YOU know my whole story? You don't even know me, so how could you?

(05-05-2015, 06:45 PM)ladyforsaken Wrote: Maybe even taken at face value what he said seemed disrespectful to you, but that might just be your view on it. It doesn't mean it's disrespectful to others or himself - you can only speak for yourself.
I am not someone who is so delusional to think that I am the only one who feels the way that I do about things.
Are you assuming otherwise? Do YOU think that I am completely alone in how I feel? I really don't understand what your point here is. Can you tell me what your point is? Because I want to know now.

(05-05-2015, 06:45 PM)ladyforsaken Wrote: Just because jealousy isn't the most positive emotion to have, doesn't mean that you disregard it. It still happens, whether you like it or not. Humans feel jealousy, even I do sometimes. If you say you don't, well good for ya. But that doesn't mean you disregard other people who feel this way. They are not you, and they cannot be like you to easily brush off a particular feeling or emotion.
So if I told you that I'm jealous of you right now. What are you going to do about this? Are you really going to do anything but disregard it?

You are right about one thing, though. I do not feel jealousy myself anymore. It is something I can disregard within myself, just as easily as I know others can disregard it within themselves.

But make no mistake here. I am not disregarding, ignoring, the jealousy. I am making the person aware of it and explaining that is not productive or necessary.
So you're not actually criticizing me for disregarding the jealousy, you're criticizing me for acknowledging and the way I dealt with it, by trying to get them to see it in disregard.

So, are you telling me that because we, as people, have this feeling of jealousy we should be using it? Respecting it? Appreciating it?
That's like saying if we get angry it's irrational to try to calm the person down. Is it really? Is it really okay to lash out and destroy things just because you're angry?
Is it really okay to do anything against anger but "disregard" it?

Again, show me a better way. Don't just criticize me, give me suggestions. Better yet, show me by example.

(05-05-2015, 06:45 PM)ladyforsaken Wrote: No basis in reality? Are you serious? Wow, don't you know it all.
As if this comment were really helpful or had a point itself.
Doesn't this remark itself imply that you're the know-it-all for knowing better than me, yet not stating how or why?

The above is an example of what I meant by not giving suggestions and just being critical or condescending. However, I would guide you to my previous post and demonstrate to you, again, that I had indeed provided advice simultaneously alongside my criticism. This is unlike your own comments which seem to be nothing but condemning and judgemental, and in no way really helpful to me in improving my behavior.

So, do you see my point now? You and Rainbows are in fact just judging me, it seems, being critical of my behavior but not providing any advice or alternatives.
But unlike your own behavior I was constructively criticizing someone. I provided both criticizing remarks as well as advice and suggestions to improve. I was attempting to close the current, improper perspective and meanwhile build up a new and proper one.

What you demonstrated above is called hypocrisy. You intended only to criticize me in this remark, and obviously provided nothing positive or productive. It was merely a judgmental comment and nothing more.

So is this really all you have for me, is this your true message? LadyForsaken, you have a reputation on these forums for being a caring and kind individual. I know this is in you and I know you can do better than this. Why is it you feel I am not deserving of this like everyone else? If I had low self-esteem as many people here do, I would be unable to deal with this situation properly. Is that really what you wish? I know that it is not. I look at your post as a whole, and despite any flaws, I see that you're just trying to help.
So I look at your post as a whole, and even you as a person as a whole, and I can tell that despite even an obvious hypocritical or condescending remark you can still be a good person behind that screen. I do not judge you. People say things they don't even mean all the time.

And yes, people used to call me a "know-it-all" all the time. Such remarks were just as unhelpful and unfriendly back then as they are now. Nothing has changed except my own perspective. I have changed both my inward and outward perspective in these years. So the question here is if I've changed so much, but I still hear this, am I really at fault for it? Maybe that answer isn't straight forward, but I'm sure you can see why I can easily disregard it.

(05-05-2015, 06:45 PM)ladyforsaken Wrote: I think I have done this thus far, sticking to what you really said that I don't feel were quite... helpful.
I still disagree with that, as you can see. I would also point out that you were probably even more unhelpful to me than I was to anyone else here. So if we're going to speak of this issue then why should we overlook ourselves? I am certainly not trying to do so.

And if this post warrants me getting cast aside because I "attacked" a respected member of this forum, it would not be the first time.
However, if you read it how it is actually intended, written by a real person, and do not forget that there are real people behind that screen of yours, as that is the message you seemed to want me to understand, then you'll see I am not really trying to 'attack' anyone here. And I will point out that yes, I do understand your point and message very well. I know very well that there are real people on the other end of my comments. It just might not come out in the best way because I'm a real person, too, with real feelings like everyone else, but that isn't to mean that I was not trying my best nor does it mean I was not giving any good advice.

I like to think that even if I make mistakes, sometimes, I'm still a good person. I do try my best. I have the best intentions. Maybe you disagree now but I stopped caring what others thought of me long ago. More importantly, I still listen to criticism and I still enjoy good advice when it is given to me. But if criticism is not useful or constructive than it's simply judgmental, and while others might 'suggest' I do such things myself I necessarily fail to see how because I rarely ever criticize without also giving constructive advice. Even worse, words get put into my mouth by the same people judging me. So I feel I am simply just misrepresented, all the time. I've lived through this time and time and time again. It's practically all I know anymore in regards to people.

So my advice is: Just take things for what they really are and don't try to see any more or less than what there really is. If there is any one message I could leave here with it would be that.

Now, I've spoken my mind and I don't think there is anything else for me to say on this matter. Feel free to crucify me or whatever you might wish to do, even if you don't even know you wish to do it. I'm rather used to all of that by now.
#34
I can't believe I put myself through reading all of this, hoping I could gain any new insight. I didn't...we've been through all of this before. I just want to pick up on one thing:

Despicable Me Wrote:Feel free to crucify me or whatever you might wish to do, even if you don't even know you wish to do it. I'm rather used to all of that by now.

Are you doing this all the time when people don't agree with you? If you fail at talking them into submission or by marking them as strawmen? Because this is exactly what you did the last couple of times. And it's a perfect example for your general judgemental and pretentious attitude. If you want to turn yourself into a martyr, go right ahead. You can do that on your own though. And it certainly won't validate your position.

You are not misunderstood. You cannot seem to estimate the condescending nature of your own words though - but you have no problem condemning others for this. Neither can you seem to accept that your version of reality is not the true one, no matter how persistently you try to convince others.
Sometimes I wake up in the morning and I go...
[Image: d8mV4rP.gif]
#35
(05-06-2015, 04:57 AM)Rodent Wrote: Are you doing this all the time when people don't agree with you? If you fail at talking them into submission or by marking them as strawmen? Because this is exactly what you did the last couple of times. And it's a perfect example for your general judgemental and pretentious attitude. If you want to turn yourself into a martyr, go right ahead. You can do that on your own though. And it certainly won't validate your position.
Rodent,
I've already explained to you that the conclusions you've made about me, which goes back to the topic I made when I first joined the forums, was nothing but your own misunderstanding and a false conclusion and assumption you made.
This isn't me and it has nothing to do with me. You're simply making the same ignorant assumption yet again.

Furthermore, do you know why I stopped responding to my own topic? That one I created when I first got here to explain my problems? You in particular became extremely insulting, condemning, and judgmental. All due to what you 'thought' I was saying, rather than what I was really saying. You seemed to be making stuff up about me simply because you didn't ever really understand anything I was saying and possibly because I struck a nerve with you. And you really wondered why I didn't want to be more clear? Are you kidding? I just didn't even want to be a part of that anymore. But now you're continuing the nonsense elsewhere, so I guess I can't get away from this conflict? You've forced me into it, I guess.

So, are you really going to allow this irrational conclusion of yours continue? I would prefer you simply listen to what I'm saying instead of constantly trying to judge me and maybe we can put this behind us.

As proof:
(05-06-2015, 04:57 AM)Rodent Wrote: You are not misunderstood.
And how would you know this? Do you know me? No, you certainly do not. Are you me? Of course not. So how could you possibly know anything about me?

So how is it you think you know whether I'm misunderstood or not? You state it as such a fact! So how do you KNOW?
You call me "judgemental" and "pretentious", but have you looked in the mirror lately? This is all you've done to me since I got here. Why???
I want to know why you're doing this. What do you have against me? What did I say to elicit such a response from you?

(05-06-2015, 04:57 AM)Rodent Wrote: You cannot seem to estimate the condescending nature of your own words though - but you have no problem condemning others for this. Neither can you seem to accept that your version of reality is not the true one, no matter how persistently you try to convince others.
And yet here you are, doing the exact same thing to me. So we're at an impasse, Rodent.
Either you're simply just wrong about me or you're just a big ol' hypocrite with nothing better to do than go around belittling people.
So what is it? I'm really wondering about you.

But thanks for proving my point anyway. I know how this plays out every time.
If you criticize a respected member of the forum, their friends will always come out to get you. Doesn't matter if the criticism was constructive or not. It's like the #1 rule of forums, and basically any clique. People are often so irrationally defensive.

In any case, as I said, I wasn't trying to insult or attack anyone.
Maybe I'm a little condescending. I have lived basically my whole life without anyone to talk to, except my wife. Do you think social-interactions come easy to me? If I'm a jerk that doesn't mean you need to be one, too.
#36
I just want to say, I'm not a respected member on the forum. I'm a respected member on chat, alright.

Alright, if you just want to dodge everything I said, let me put it simply: Your post came over (to me, let me just say, to me, perhaps not to others or to you, but for me) to me as a post where you were telling the guy his problems weren't real because he's young.

Also, my statement about young people their problems not being taken seriously was about society in general, not about you.

(05-05-2015, 08:05 AM)Despicable Me Wrote: And maybe it applies to you, as well? I don't know, but if you're going to sit there and tell me you don't think you can enjoy the rest of your life or have so many better years ahead of you just because you're 20 and not found someone yet? I'm still going to tell you that you're being ridiculous and that you're ignoring all the many great things you've got right now.

Also, I have a boyfriend, thank you. I do have something called depression.
#37
(05-05-2015, 08:05 AM)Despicable Me Wrote: I don't need to know the whole story, I can only go by what he has said and what I heard was a little disrespectful.

No, actually you can't go by what he said, perhaps you could if he said the same things over and over again, you could get some basis, but this guy only has 11 posts on the forum. You DO need the whole story, you DO need to know the guy.

(05-05-2015, 08:05 AM)Despicable Me Wrote: Being jealous of anything is neither productive nor advantageous. It's obviously just a lingering emotion of doubt and self-hatred. There's no reason why I should not tell people to get over that.

No, being jealous is neither productive or advantageous, but it IS a part of life. Everyone gets jealous at some point in their life and there's nothing wrong with that. It happens, but you can't know whether that guy was just venting during a moment of weakness or if he honestly lives a life of jealousy.


(05-05-2015, 08:05 AM)Despicable Me Wrote: You're just being negative about what I said with no real understanding of the meaning or advice behind it. You've twisted my words, which is obviously disrespectful to me.

Actually, it seems to me that they are doing what you are doing. Offering what they see and how it comes across and what should be done. So, pot meet kettle....


(05-06-2015, 03:44 AM)Despicable Me Wrote: I wasn't putting anyone down or insulting them. I thought I made that clear already.

Doesn't matter if you say it a thousand times, when you are condescending and rude in your posts, whether you intend to be or not, that's what people see. You said yourself that you don't need to know the whole story, you just need to see what people post. Yet, that doesn't apply when it comes back at you? Again, pot meet kettle.....


(05-06-2015, 03:44 AM)Despicable Me Wrote: And if they get defensive like Rainbows did? And most of all, twisting other people's words rather than reading what is really there. That's something I personally think they need to work out, too. Being unable to take criticism properly is something that effects a lot of people. It seems, from my experience, that it is particularly true here on this forum. And it's an issue that needs to be worked out and is a different issue altogether.

Rainbows has every right to be defensive. By stating that it doesn't matter what happens at a young age, you are saying that their lives, thus far, are not real.
Having friends and what you go through at a young age has every chance to determine how you live your adult life. What you go through (and yes, how you deal with it) will somewhat determine whether you are depressed or even lonely later in life. There are many people here who have been rejected all their lives and now they have given up trying to find anything or anyone. How you respond to people, especially if they have low self esteem or depression will help them pave the way on how they deal with it and if you are rude to them, they won't deal with it well, because that's sometimes all they've ever known, so they will just give up.

(05-06-2015, 03:44 AM)Despicable Me Wrote: Am I supposed to tip-toe around every single person's feelings here just because it's a loneliness forum? That's not me. That's not going to happen.

No, you don't need to tip-toe around, but there is something called tact.

(05-06-2015, 03:44 AM)Despicable Me Wrote: Maybe it's not the way you'd go about it, but why do I need to be like you?
The topic itself is about feeling like the one who doesn't belong, right? Expecting others to be like you is exactly the reason why someone might feel like they don't belong. So I would not expect anyone to be doing this here.

But you expect others to be like you. You can say it's advice and they don't have to take it, but when you call what they say ignorant or disrespectful, that's like saying that their way is WRONG and they need to change NOW or they are fucked.
People deal with things in their own way, sometimes it's venting on a forum just to get it out, just to be able to let it go after getting advice from people. You can't do it for them and advice won't work unless they want it to.

(05-06-2015, 03:44 AM)Despicable Me Wrote: By suggesting you've already wasted your life away when you 'obviously' have your entire life ahead of you it is disrespectful to yourself. It is like saying you feel like giving up, like you feel you can't do any better than giving up.
It's like saying you feel no one's life is worth anything.

No, it's not like saying that. It's saying that's how they FEEL. People can feel. People can have moments of weakness (no matter how long they last) where you just feel like everything in life is worthless. That's THEIR opinion, it doesn't apply to anyone else, just them.

(05-06-2015, 03:44 AM)Despicable Me Wrote: But I'm not above learning from my own mistakes. If you think I'm a jerk, that's fine. Show me a better way to get through to these people and I won't just accept it, I will embrace it. But from my experience sometimes a little 'tough love' is what they need.

I'm going to be the guy who tells you that you're wrong. I'm going to be that guy who thinks you're being ridiculous. And I'll be that guy who tries to help you realize how irrational and nonsensical you're being while simultaneously pointing you in the proper direction to see reality.

There is a difference between tough love and just sending someone deeper into depression. Trust me, I know. I used to be a lot like you the last time I was here. I didn't insult so much, but I could be rude with the best of them.
People are going to be ridiculous and rude and nonsensical, that's their right as a human being and just because they are in a post doesn't mean they always are. Again, sometimes people just need to vent. Just because you post something doesn't mean they will follow, and there is less of a chance is you are rude and insulting.

(05-06-2015, 03:44 AM)Despicable Me Wrote: Don't just look at a few sentences or skim the post and make assumptions. See it for what it really is as a whole, not in tiny pieces. See the meaning behind it. See the love behind it.

Do either of you really think with the advice I was giving that I was trying to be a jerk? You should both know better than that.
Or maybe you don't. Maybe you have trouble seeing people for who they really are? If that's true then make a topic about that and I'll try to help you deal with those problems, too. Every different problem requires a different approach, and every individual is unique as well. That's why I really don't believe in this tip-toeing thing. I feel that method is only good in certain circumstances.
Inevitably, you have your ways and I have mine.

I think both Rainbows and LF (and Rodent, for that matter) see people just fine, but clearly you aren't seeing them for who they really are. Rainbows doesn't post much on the forum, so there's no way you can know who she really is unless you talk to her in chat (or on that evil skype).
You tell them to see what is REALLY there, but you refuse to do the same.
Yes everyone has their own way, which is why not everyone will agree with you. Yet, when someone does disagree with you, you throw up defense mechanisms and start being even more condescending.


(05-06-2015, 03:44 AM)Despicable Me Wrote: I don't judge people. That's not me. I accept people for who they are, what they are, and can only go off of what they tell me.

You've done nothing BUT judge people in this thread.....


(05-06-2015, 03:44 AM)Despicable Me Wrote: Maybe, yeah, maybe I'm a jerk sometimes. But I'm also a jerk who sees through people and helps the ones who need the help.
Again, if you can do better.... Show me. I'll shutup and learn. I make mistakes like everyone else. So why is it you're judging me, assuming that, like you are implying, that criticism assumes judgement? Do YOU know my whole story? You don't even know me, so how could you?

You don't know them either. So, how can you assume what you are saying to them is true? Here's the thing about an online community, you can only know so much about a person, so assuming anything (which you HAVE done, here and elsewhere) can be very offensive and hurtful to the person.


(05-06-2015, 03:44 AM)Despicable Me Wrote: So, are you telling me that because we, as people, have this feeling of jealousy we should be using it? Respecting it? Appreciating it?
That's like saying if we get angry it's irrational to try to calm the person down. Is it really? Is it really okay to lash out and destroy things just because you're angry?
Is it really okay to do anything against anger but "disregard" it?

Actually, yes, lashing out and destroying things because you are angry CAN help. Of course not, if it's something important, but done the right way and lashing out can be VERY helpful and therapeutic.


(05-06-2015, 03:44 AM)Despicable Me Wrote: So, do you see my point now? You and Rainbows are in fact just judging me, it seems, being critical of my behavior but not providing any advice or alternatives.
But unlike your own behavior I was constructively criticizing someone. I provided both criticizing remarks as well as advice and suggestions to improve. I was attempting to close the current, improper perspective and meanwhile build up a new and proper one.

What you demonstrated above is called hypocrisy. You intended only to criticize me in this remark, and obviously provided nothing positive or productive. It was merely a judgmental comment and nothing more.

You sure do like that word....hypocrisy. I believe you also mentioned looking in a mirror somewhere in this thread. Perhaps you should take your own advice. That's the best suggestion I can give you, take your own advice, because more often than not, it's good advice.


(05-06-2015, 03:44 AM)Despicable Me Wrote: However, if you read it how it is actually intended, written by a real person, and do not forget that there are real people behind that screen of yours.


Yes, there are real people behind the screens. So why do you think being condescending and a jerk (which you have admitted you can be) helps people? A lot of people here have self esteem issues and depression, so do you REALLY think being insulting (which is how you come across sometimes) helps them at all? Sounds to me like that would makes things worse for them.



(05-06-2015, 06:14 AM)Despicable Me Wrote: And how would you know this? Do you know me? No, you certainly do not. Are you me? Of course not. So how could you possibly know anything about me?

So how is it you think you know whether I'm misunderstood or not? You state it as such a fact! So how do you KNOW?
You call me "judgemental" and "pretentious", but have you looked in the mirror lately? This is all you've done to me since I got here. Why???
I want to know why you're doing this. What do you have against me? What did I say to elicit such a response from you?

So if you can see the whole story by reading posts, why can't anyone else do the same? Are you saying they are wrong? If so, that means you are JUST as likely to be wrong about someone else.
Should they be tip-toeing around you?
Everything you say here is going against everything you say to other people.

(05-06-2015, 06:14 AM)Despicable Me Wrote: Either you're simply just wrong about me or you're just a big ol' hypocrite with nothing better to do than go around belittling people.
So what is it? I'm really wondering about you.

Or maybe they see something that you refuse to acknowledge? If you are in denial about it, you won't see it and of course you will say they are wrong...who's to know.

(05-06-2015, 06:14 AM)Despicable Me Wrote: If you criticize a respected member of the forum, their friends will always come out to get you. Doesn't matter if the criticism was constructive or not. It's like the #1 rule of forums, and basically any clique. People are often so irrationally defensive.


No, see that's where you are wrong. No one is "out to get you." They are simply, as they have done before, trying to show you what you are doing. How you are coming across to other people.
Yes, people are often so irrationally defensive, like you are being here....


Also, before you go around saying I'm in a clique with rodent, rainbows or LF, you would be wrong.
Want to talk?  Check out the CHAT ROOM 

[Image: Quotefancy-19173-3840x2160.jpg?resize=1165%2C655&ssl=1]
#38
Despicable Me, I'm not here to argue or debate about what's what. I was here merely to comment on some of the things you said which I thought was insulting to the OP and anyone who can relate.

I also said in the beginning of my post up there that I do agree with some of the things you said because they do make sense. But I am not going to list every point because I simply do not have the mental energy for this.

Callie pretty much said it all up there, I agree with her. But I also want to add some things which didn't sit well with me after reading your reply.

(05-06-2015, 03:44 AM)Despicable Me Wrote: Why is it that my advice is ignored as if it I'm just here condemning someone? Come on now. I think that advice you're disregarding was actually pretty good.

In my initial reply, I did say that I agreed with some of the things you said. I just didn't pick out on each and everything you said.

(05-06-2015, 03:44 AM)Despicable Me Wrote: Do either of you really think with the advice I was giving that I was trying to be a jerk? You should both know better than that.
Or maybe you don't. Maybe you have trouble seeing people for who they really are? If that's true then make a topic about that and I'll try to help you deal with those problems, too.

I didn't say that you were trying to be jerk, neither did Rainbows. I only said my piece for the reasons I stated above in my initial reply and will not repeat. Go back and read again if you need clarity.

And no I do not have trouble seeing people for who they are but I don't judge them or put them down for having feelings. I have no issues with tough love but what you said wasn't exactly "tough love".

So no, I don't need to make a topic about seeing through people and I don't need anyone's help for now in trying to understand people and their behaviours because I have more important things in life to concern about but thank you for the offer anyway.

(05-06-2015, 03:44 AM)Despicable Me Wrote: The real problem here, from what I can see, is why both you and Rainbows so immediately jump to the conclusion that I'm judging people? Again, why you ignore the advice that is there and don't look at the whole post, but focus on these minor issues. Why you have to twist words around?

We didn't jump to conclusions. We took what you said and that was the message we saw you put across. Whether you like it or not, accept it or not, it came across as insulting.

We don't need to hone in on the advice that was valid because for me, I agree and I have nothing to say or to add on to that. Just cos I didn't pick out on those things doesn't mean I ignored or skipped them. I read every word you said.

(05-06-2015, 03:44 AM)Despicable Me Wrote: So if I told you that I'm jealous of you right now. What are you going to do about this? Are you really going to do anything but disregard it?

Huh? Look, there is a difference between acknowledging and disregarding something. I will acknowledge the fact that you're jealous if say this was the situation, but I will not tell you it's wrong to do that or that it's distasteful or disrespectful to say these things about how you feel. I can only tell you why you shouldn't be jealous but I won't disregard that of you neither would I put you down or brush it off and make you feel ignored.

(05-06-2015, 03:44 AM)Despicable Me Wrote: You are right about one thing, though. I do not feel jealousy myself anymore. It is something I can disregard within myself, just as easily as I know others can disregard it within themselves.

Wrong. Not everyone is like you. They can be like you but why should they? Everyone should be themselves and learn to work around their issues the way they feel is best for them and if it is the harder road they take to learn, then so be it. You can't make people disregard something just because you can do it for yourself. They're not you. That's just wrong.

(05-06-2015, 03:44 AM)Despicable Me Wrote: But unlike your own behavior I was constructively criticizing someone. I provided both criticizing remarks as well as advice and suggestions to improve.

That wasn't constructive, in my opinion. Maybe to the OP or anyone else, but I think I can speak up if I don't agree with something. It doesn't mean I want to offend you nor does it mean I am attacking you.

In my opinion, I think some of the things you said were demeaning and I'm not going to repeat myself here. I already said what I wanted to say.

(05-06-2015, 03:44 AM)Despicable Me Wrote: LadyForsaken, you have a reputation on these forums for being a caring and kind individual. I know this is in you and I know you can do better than this.

Don't make this about my reputation because you can't know me just by my posts on the forum neither can you know me just by the number of reputation points I have. I speak up because I saw something that needs to be said and if I see something that isn't right, I will not sit back and do nothing. If it was anyone else, I'd have done the same.

I can do better than this? Seriously? What's this supposed to mean?

(05-06-2015, 03:44 AM)Despicable Me Wrote: Why is it you feel I am not deserving of this like everyone else? If I had low self-esteem as many people here do, I would be unable to deal with this situation properly. Is that really what you wish? I know that it is not. I look at your post as a whole, and despite any flaws, I see that you're just trying to help.

Why does it have to be about whether the way I responded to you here was deserving or not? Like everyone else? What's that supposed to mean? If you ask me what I think you mean, I think you're simply implying that I play favourites and is biased with my treatment to the people here.

If that is so, that's simply not true.

(05-06-2015, 03:44 AM)Despicable Me Wrote: So the question here is if I've changed so much, but I still hear this, am I really at fault for it? Maybe that answer isn't straight forward, but I'm sure you can see why I can easily disregard it.

There is no "fault" here. It's just a matter of how you bring across your message in your posts. People can only tell you what it seems like from this side. It's up to you to take a step back and look at how you delivered your messages and see where you might have caused these implications in your posts.

People misinterpret everything in life, that happens all the time. I get misunderstood too with the things I say. I won't get defensive but I will only try to improve my writing so that my message comes across exactly how I want it to. Maybe you can do this too, just saying.

(05-06-2015, 03:44 AM)Despicable Me Wrote: And if this post warrants me getting cast aside because I "attacked" a respected member of this forum, it would not be the first time.

I wasn't "attacking" you and we don't play favourites on this forum. The mods don't do that, members who have been here for some time don't do that and I certainly don't do that.

(05-06-2015, 03:44 AM)Despicable Me Wrote: I like to think that even if I make mistakes, sometimes, I'm still a good person. I do try my best. I have the best intentions. Maybe you disagree now but I stopped caring what others thought of me long ago.

I think everyone has a good part in them. I'm pretty sure you do too and I never thought of you as otherwise. It was only just about the things you said and how you brought it across. It's nothing against you personally.

(05-06-2015, 06:14 AM)Despicable Me Wrote: If you criticize a respected member of the forum, their friends will always come out to get you. Doesn't matter if the criticism was constructive or not. It's like the #1 rule of forums, and basically any clique. People are often so irrationally defensive.

That's not the case here if you think it was. As what Callie also said, neither of us who responded to you here are in a clique whatsoever. I'm not in a clique with anyone here so, no.
#39
(05-05-2015, 11:25 PM)Tiina63 Wrote:
(05-05-2015, 03:46 AM)Blondeblue73 Wrote: I think the worst loneliness I have ever felt, was last month when I had to tell my pre-op nurse that I would have no one to come and collect me after my operation, so they're having to arrange my overnight stay. If I had an accident with the anaesthetic, would anyone need to be alerted? Am concerned about getting home next day and dreading how lonely that's going to feel, likely in a ward filled with other patients receiving countless gifts and visits. So sick of feeling invisible. I know I'm a great person. Why do other people have 'group membership' meted out to them without them making any effort? I'm so tired of making effort I don't want to make. I'm tired of taking the lowest number of minutes on my mobile contract each month, because I don't need to make or receive many calls.

Same or very similar situation here.
First of all, on a practical level would the hospital organise an ambulance to take you home? If not, could you take a taxi?
Once at home, do you have enough food in to tide you over till you can go out? If not, maybe mention this to a nurse and s/he may be able to suggest a local charity which could help out for a couple of weeks. Or you could shop for food online.
However, it is the emotional side which is the hardest to deal with. Like you I am on my own and have no one to help me out at bad times. It really does make you feel like you don't matter to anyone when you have no emergency contact, no family to rally round to make sure you are ok. I know I am online only, but I am here if you ever want to pm me. I had major surgery in 2012 and am as people-deprived as you are, so if you need to vent to someone who knows what it is like to be in your shoes, I am here for you.

I agree with both of you here. Mostly I'm fine on my own, pretty self-sufficient, but when something goes wrong I realise how alone I really am.

I had an emergency MRI a couple of months back for a suspected TIA (all clear, thankfully), and sitting in that waiting room I realised how completely alone I really am. It was an acute clinic and I was the only one there on my own.

I wonder about what will happen when I'm older, and reach the territory of real medical problems.
#40
Whoa les drama, scroll scroll scroll lol.


Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Places you go to feel better Tealeaf 40 5,937 06-07-2019, 05:46 PM
Last Post: duracell
  Does anyone else feel this way? ITellYouHhwut 5 391 04-16-2019, 10:59 PM
Last Post: Richard_39
  How do you feel now compared to when you joined? jetsuo 93 18,097 03-15-2019, 12:52 PM
Last Post: HorseLatitudes
  I need help. I feel invisible to women. Tachyonprince 10 758 02-27-2019, 12:33 PM
Last Post: sriguhan
  Does anyone ever feel deprived of physical contact? hewhowalksalone 33 1,300 02-06-2019, 11:29 PM
Last Post: Jessicat
  I'm a sad, pathetic person who doesn't deserve a relationship Matt L 20 1,227 01-11-2019, 12:35 PM
Last Post: bearcat22
  I feel invisible SomethingOriginal 4 685 11-17-2018, 08:45 AM
Last Post: DeepTxWater
  i feel like im avoided as if im carrying a disease clover4you 8 1,373 10-04-2018, 08:48 AM
Last Post: TammyLynn1972
  I don't belong to anywhere lonelyfairy 11 1,695 09-27-2018, 12:59 PM
Last Post: sometimesthewolf
  Do i belong here? Anarchic Torchic 2 485 09-19-2018, 02:08 PM
Last Post: Saulgoodmanfan

Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)