"Titanic principle"

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Raven22

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Relationship's and friendship's are based on trust and caring. Part of that trust and care is how far or how much would you be prepared to give or care.
Part of the "Titanic principle" in relationship's, is good manners. Do good manner's mean that much to people today,or are good manner,s,and particular to good manner's towards Women,only something the older generation saw as normal everyday thing's, but today would be frowned upon as sexist?
Would the Guy's these day's give up a space on a life boat and go down with a sinking ship?
Would Women expect them too these day's.
Be nice to hear from all generations on this.


http://ethicsalarms.com/2010/01/07/the-titanic-principle-and-the-ethics-of-helping-the-desperate/
 
I read the article and it brings up some interesting thoughts. Here is what comes to mind...

Often, those with a Christian background always seem to turn to the golden rule, "treat others as you'd have them treat you." However, on many occasions I have found this a difficult principle to live by; in that, often times I'm not exactly sure how I would have another treat me in that situation.

With that being said, I find myself falling back on the origins of Jesus's philosophical precepts, which are in essence Buddhist. There is a large time line of Jesus's life missing from the bible, however, he has been noted by eastern historians who considered him a Buddha.

Now that is all neither here nor there, however, what I was getting at is the eastern equivalent of, "Treat others as you'd have them treat you," which is, "Harm others as you would have them harm you."

I've known about this principle for some time, however, in thinking about this, I've never really applied it. I've spent my whole life wondering how I should treat others in particular situation, wondering how I would have them treat me, and often times being baffled. However, it seems to harm others as you would have them harm you is a much different way of looking at things. I might just focus on that instead, it might be less confusing.

Also, thee *ughh*, analogy of the swamping of the boat is interesting. Going back to treating others as you'd have them treat you... If you knew in foresight rather than in hindsight, that some one helping you would cause suffering greater than the sum total of your suffering with out the help, would you really want that help? If you were an individual on a trajectory of malice, then perhaps so. Which again, brings me back to the higher clarity, for me personally of, harming others as you'd have them harm you.

Furthermore, Jesus, whom many consider to be the highest ideal of morality in practice of living life, did not live as those who subscribe to his faith do. Jesus did not have a metaphorical boat from which to pull people from deadly waters. Metaphorically speaking he walked on water, and if some one in peril, through faith, could will it so, could also walk on water. This is about teaching one to fish, rather then giving them a fish.

Jesus had no money to give to the poor, he was the poor. Jesus had no home to shelter the homeless, he was homeless. Jesus had no way to defend the weak, he was the weak and defenseless.

Did Jesus not over turn the money changers tables? He got angry when it was called for.

I know I'm heavily off track, but, those are my thoughts on the article.
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As far as the questions you pose Raven22....

I am 29 and find myself in dealings with others to generally be chivalrous. Perhaps not 1920's or 1840's chivalrous, but mostly so...
 
Nice to see someone thinking outside the box and giving a different slant on the question.
And is chivalry dead along with good manner''s? Do only people of a certain age group still see chivalry and manners as something that seem's to be long gone these day's?
Do Women like Men to be well mannered and polite nowadays,or do Guy's not think that good manner's is a thing of the past?
 
I read the article and found that I could identify with the needy people with no safety net. This made me so uncomfortable that I didn't respond. It makes me feel like such a loser to admit to having no support network other than an online friend who I help and who helps me via email and one offline friend who has so many issues of her own that I couldn't expect her to help me out much when she is needy herself. We do what we can for each other, but this is all.
 
Tina,how could you possibly feel like a loser,you responded to,and added to the discussion, plus,you admit to trying to help your friend's when they needed a friend most,even when you feel like needed a friend's help yourself,that makes you a very special sort of person! That,is what the ALL site is about, helping one another!
 
I once was one of these desperate individuals too, but managed to get out of that spot once I was confronted with how toxic things can become when you find yourself on the other end - confronted with someone even more desperate than yourself. There is nothing worse than somebody seeing you as their personal savior - the only person capable of helping/understanding them. You can't fulfill their expectations without giving yourself up completely and if you start considering your own limitations, they often have little respect for this and will scold you mercilessly for not dedicating yourself enough.

That's why I watch very carefully who I involve myself these days...I know I wouldn't be able to handle this situation again. But in case I have no choice, I will maintain a professional distance. No matter what kind of relationship, you should try to point people in the right direction but you can't hold their hand all the way. Cause like the article said: When these folks decide to trip over the edge, you'll fall along with them.

About the chivalry...I never believed in this. I don't care for a person's gender, I treat men and women alike - based on their personality and ability to reason alone.

PS: No need to get all riled up just because people don't respond within a day...
 
To me the article you linked to was more about saying "no" to people who are too needy and might bring us down with them.
In my mind, people who desperately need help but don't want to bother anyone or ask for assistance and instead suffer in silence is an exponentially bigger problem.
I feel sad when I hear people like Tiina say they lack a support network. In fact, many of us forum members are here because of a lack of support in real life.

As for chivalry? I don't really have an opinion on that. I've encountered many men who will hold the door for me, although, I've noticed it's mostly men over the age of 35 who do that. When it happens, I give a sincere "thanks" and a smile.

The religious slant is interesting, although I'm not a believer and I find conflating manners with morality a bit of a stretch. One does not need to be a believer to have good manners or to be moral.

-Teresa
 
All I can say is... There was enough room for both of them on the door. And if there wasn't, there were fifty other things in their immediate surroundings them that he could have slid onto. But no. That's not what he did.

As far as chivalry, I can open my own door. Chivalry is not something I look for in anyone.
 
About the chivalry...I never believed in this. I don't care for a person's gender, I treat men and women alike - based on their personality and ability to reason alone.PS: No need to get all riled up just because people don't respond within a day...

Actually Rodent,sweetie,you are so totally wrong! I was not "riled" as you put it,sweetie!That was just your way of seeing something you obviously thought it meant. It was actually a statement about how some people on here have a great deal to say,to the point of being boring! But when faced with question's that require a Man to "step up to the plate" and sort the real Men from the "boys", the silence as they say,is deafening!
I will be making sure that i am never on the same sinking ship as yourself,sweetie,as obviously it would be all Men,Women and Children for themselve's with no thought to self sacrifice. Which in it's self speaks volumes,sweetie!
 
Raven22 said:
Actually Rodent,sweetie,you are so totally wrong! I was not "riled" as you put it,sweetie!That was just your way of seeing something you obviously thought it meant. It was actually a statement about how some people on here have a great deal to say,to the point of being boring! But when faced with question's that require a Man to "step up to the plate" and sort the real Men from the "boys", the silence as they say,is deafening!
I will be making sure that i am never on the same sinking ship as yourself,sweetie,as obviously it would be all Men,Women and Children for themselve's with no thought to self sacrifice. Which in it's self speaks volumes,sweetie!

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...no worries. I'd jump into the open sea voluntarily just to get away from the likes of you.
 
I thought it was against the rules of the forum to openly attack or insult people,sweetie?
Obviously it only apllies to certain people.
It certainly isn't good manner's to attack a Lady.
But a little boy hiding behind a mask,trying be be big and scary is not scary,i think the word people use for somebody like that is "pathetic" Or was it "wimpish"?
Or is it you get scared when a Women calls you sweetie,sweetie?

P.S. If you did jump in at least there would be one space xtra for someone else. X
 
Raven22 said:
I thought it was against the rules of the forum to openly attack or insult people,sweetie?
Obviously it only apllies to certain people.
It certainly isn't good manner's to attack a Lady.
But a little boy hiding behind a mask,trying be be big and scary is not scary,i think the word people use for somebody like that is "pathetic" Or was it "wimpish"?
Or is it you get scared when a Women calls you sweetie,sweetie?

P.S. If you did jump in at least there would be one space xtra for someone else. X

Who is attack who? Not good manner to attack a lady? Didn't you say you didn't believe in chivalry? Rodent disagreed with you. Disagree doesn't mean attacking. So, let's be civil, yeah.
 
Might i suggest you read the posts again? It was Rodent who does not believe in chivalry not i.I was trying to find out with this thread if guys today do have any manners. That question has been answered.
It was Rodent who attacked me. Away from someone like me?
Obviously certain people on here have preferential treatment as i was told happens on here.
If Rodent would like to apologise then i will do likewise.
 
Raven22 said:
Might i suggest you read the posts again? It was Rodent who does not believe in chivalry not i.I was trying to find out with this thread if guys today do have any manners. That question has been answered.
It was Rodent who attacked me. Away from someone like me?
Obviously certain people on here have preferential treatment as i was told happens on here.
If Rodent would like to apologise then i will do likewise.

Alright, my bad. You misquoted it. Still, that doesn't make it right for you to cry that someone's attacking when they're just disagreeing. No one here has any special treatment. Wrong is wrong, no matter where it's coming from. If you believe that you have been treated a certain way, it's probably because you acted a certain way. And I surely wouldn't expect you demand an apology out of anyone.
 
Demand? I didn't use the word demand? You used that word not me. I "asked" if he would like to apologise and i would do likewise. It does seem as though you have decided i am in the wrong and Rodent is in the right. I didn't misquote anyone. He attacked me and you are backing him. That is preferential treatment.
 
Rodent said:
No need to get all riled up just because people don't respond within a day...

If this is what you deem an "attack"...I see absolutely no need to apologize.

Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right. And it certainly doesn't give you a free ride to go around insulting others. Cause you're the one that started this fire...now deal with the flames. I'm done here.
 
Raven22 said:
It certainly isn't good manner's to attack a Lady.

Just wondering, is this implying that women should have special treatment and be treated with good manners only by everyone else? What about men? Don't they deserve some manners too? I mean, ultimately, men and women both are people, human beings with feelings and emotions. I say everyone deserves basic respect, and good manners.
 

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