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Tiina63

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I am sorry to be such a pain but everything has gone wrong about the Christmas arrangements I made, ie to go to my friend's church dinner for people on their own, and be given a lift there and back. The neighbour I have, who I have written about on here before, said straightaway, when I mentioned in casual conversation about the dinner, that she would come too. She had a small op. last week and I have been helping her with shopping etc as I have been ill myself and know what it is like. I hadn't wanted to get beyond a 'hello, nice weather' relationship with her after some problems we had, but her operation came along and I felt like she needed support from me. She has an adult son who lives nearby and friends who help as well.
But she is very outgoing and can be a bit bossy and I really wanted to meet my other friend at the church alone. We have known each other for 30 years and it would be the first time we meet on Christmas Day. However, I wouldn't want to leave this other lady on her own on Christmas Day either. However, I couldn't rely on her for a lift there and back to the church and if she signs up for the dinner, they will expect her to bring me and take me home as she lives next door, because she might back out at the last minute if another offer comes along. This happened last year, when she had agreed to pick me up at my friend's at 5pm on Christmas day and then come to eat at my house and stay the evening. She cancelled at 8pm on Christmas Eve and said she could pick me up at 8 or 9, which would have meant my friend having me around far longer than planned, so I couldn't go. (My friend is elderly and infirm).
I went to a local drop in centre to ask about their Christmas dinner as I will have to pull out of the church meal with my friend as I would feel too guilty leaving my neighbour alone. The centre is nearby so I could walk there and back if she pulled out at the last minute. I then called in to tell her that we could go together to the local centre for Christmas dinner and she agreed. Then she said that her son might invite her on Christmas Day so she can't be sure about coming. I would prefer, in my heart of hearts, to spend the day at the church dinner with my friend and not with my neighbour locally, but I would feel mean if I did this. Her uncertainty also means though that I will probably end up going somewhere that isn't my first choice for Christmas dinner and on my own as well.
I spoke to another friend on the phone last night about it all and she said that I should be with my neighbour and that her mother would not approve if I wasn't. (Her mother goes to the church in question.) I have been alone for many years at Christmas and neither this friend or her mother have ever wanted me to spend any part of Christmas with them. I have accepted this though it hurt a lot. But it feels very much like double standards to me now.
 
I think you should do what YOU want to do. Stop putting other people before yourself. Christmas is about being with people you care about and who care about you, so it sounds like the church dinner with your friend is more in line with something you would want for the holidays.
As for your neighbor, she has a family and she has friends who support her, so if she is alone, it sounds like that is entirely HER fault, not yours.
Go to the dinner with your friend. Find a ride other than your neighbor. I'm sure if you explained to them the situation and what has happened in the past, that they will be more than willing to make sure you get to the church dinner and back home.

Yes, it's also about helping others, but it sounds like she has a great support system and when was the last time you had something/someone at Christmas that YOU wanted? She will likely be with her family on Christmas, so do for you this year. She'll manage just fine without you.
 
Is planning Christmas to this extent in October normal? lol
Maybe I'm just horrible at planning things....

Anyway, I'd just tell your neighbor that you decided it would be best to spend Christmas with your friend so that she can spend Christmas with her Son (even if her son doesn't invite her).
If she mentions that he may not invite her, just laugh it off and suggest that it won't happen (even if it really might) and possibly try to steer the conversation in a different direction.
It's a nice way of letting her down and also suggesting she should be looking to spend Christmas with the people she loves, just as you'd be doing.

As Callie stated, it wouldn't really be your fault if she were alone. If she didn't build up the relationship with her son well enough to tell him that she would like to spend Christmas with him, rather than people she barely knows, then that's choices she made long before now. If it ends up being that way then perhaps the loneliness will give her a reason to do something about it to change that.
And if she does get invited then everything works out. The End.

In any case, you have already decided in your heart what you want to do. I think what you're looking for right now is a justification. And I agree with Callie that you're justified in doing this for yourself.
 
Thank you both for your support. I thought that everyone would tell me here how dreadful I am and that of course I should be with my neighbour.
TRC-I know that you have come in for some flak on here, but I have always found you to be supportive and kind, and because I know you pull no punches, I value it even more when you are compassionate. I never thought of that, that it is her fault and not mine if she is alone at Christmas. She has her son, his fiancée (who she says is snobbish but ok), her mum (who is difficult), her future mother in law who she says is really nice and her friends. Surely one or two of them must be free.
DM-planning Christmas now is normal if you want to get onto a list for a Christmas dinner at a church or charity, because the lists soon fill. It's so strange that you too are telling me that it isn't my fault. I have felt such a heavy load of responsibility now for several days over this.
 
Tiina63 said:
Thank you both for your support. I thought that everyone would tell me here how dreadful I am and that of course I should be with my neighbour.
TRC-I know that you have come in for some flak on here, but I have always found you to be supportive and kind, and because I know you pull no punches, I value it even more when you are compassionate. I never thought of that, that it is her fault and not mine if she is alone at Christmas. She has her son, his fiancée (who she says is snobbish but ok), her mum (who is difficult), her future mother in law who she says is really nice and her friends. Surely one or two of them must be free.
DM-planning Christmas now is normal if you want to get onto a list for a Christmas dinner at a church or charity, because the lists soon fill. It's so strange that you too are telling me that it isn't my fault. I have felt such a heavy load of responsibility now for several days over this.

I didn't understand all of it to be honest but please put yourself first. Sod your neighbour (who let you down last year). Whatever happens, be at the Christmas dinner with your other friend. And don't feel bad about it either.
 
sorry I hadn't read your post properly - comment deleted

I still think that stalling with the elderly neighbour is the best politics, you say she is in need but you also say that she is bossy and (if I understand correctly) she changed plans on you last year effectively spoiling the party for you, so you wouldn't be too selfish to think about yourself this year and don't let her spoil anything else. And you have a right to really see this friend that you say you never see, so, there.
As the neighbour already in a sense let you off the hook by saying that might go with her son, it'd be wise to just leave it at that, with a "let's see" attitude (and in the meantime, do sign up with the church, and plan to see your friend). If you have time left, you will be happy to spend it with your neighbour, but until then your other friend who probably really wants to see you as well takes priority, in my view.
 
Tiina63 said:
I have been alone for many years at Christmas and neither this friend or her mother have ever wanted me to spend any part of Christmas with them. I have accepted this though it hurt a lot. But it feels very much like double standards to me now.

Head smack. It is a credit to you that you are so concerned about this neighbor but it sounds like you are putting her in charge of what you do that gives me the sads. Helping her out at all is more than anyone can expect. You know heck has frozen over if I am saying this but, I agree with TRC.
 
Tiina63 said:
Thank you both for your support. I thought that everyone would tell me here how dreadful I am and that of course I should be with my neighbour.
TRC-I know that you have come in for some flak on here, but I have always found you to be supportive and kind, and because I know you pull no punches, I value it even more when you are compassionate. I never thought of that, that it is her fault and not mine if she is alone at Christmas. She has her son, his fiancée (who she says is snobbish but ok), her mum (who is difficult), her future mother in law who she says is really nice and her friends. Surely one or two of them must be free.
DM-planning Christmas now is normal if you want to get onto a list for a Christmas dinner at a church or charity, because the lists soon fill. It's so strange that you too are telling me that it isn't my fault. I have felt such a heavy load of responsibility now for several days over this.


Of course you aren't dreadful, not in any way. And don't you dare take on any guilt if anyone tries to tell you that you are. They should be thankful beyond words that you are helping her out, because it sounds like these other people are just using you, tbh. They want nothing to do with you, until you can do something for them. Whether you offered or they asked, that makes you the better person, a kind person and you deserve to have a good Christmas doing what you want to do.

And stop feeling responsibility for anything, she is your neighbor, that doesn't make you responsible for her. SHE is responsible for her and her family is responsible for her, so let all that go and enjoy your time. Help out when you can if you want to, but please don't bend over backwards for her.

And thank you for the kind words. :)
 
Again, I agree with Callie.
There's simply no way you should feel guilty about this. From my perspective this neighbor of yours completely lost all chances to spend this holiday with you when she changed her plans and ruined yours last year. She should have done more than something to make up for that this year but from the sounds of it she is just going back to her old game. Those are choices she makes, and in my opinion they are choices which eliminate any sort of responsibility you might have ever had towards this situation, if you ever had any at all.

So just make plans to be with your friend and be happy. No regrets. You deserve that and there's certainly nothing wrong with it in this situation. You gave your neighbor every chance you could. It just didn't work out. She just didn't want to commit and there's nothing you can do about that.
 
Tiina63 said:
I spoke to another friend on the phone last night about it all and she said that I should be with my neighbour and that her mother would not approve if I wasn't. (Her mother goes to the church in question.) I have been alone for many years at Christmas and neither this friend or her mother have ever wanted me to spend any part of Christmas with them. I have accepted this though it hurt a lot. But it feels very much like double standards to me now.

I don't particularly care what her mother thinks, because it's not her mother in this situation, but honestly, you should do what you're most comfortable with. Not what your friend on the phone thinks, or what anyone's mother thinks. If you feel like it's the right - although not your first choice - thing to do by spending time with this other lady, then you do that. If you feel like you would really enjoy time spent at the church, then you do that. Perhaps do both. Go to the church function, and set up a different time and day to spend with the other lady.

If you know what it feels like to be lonely on Christmas, and know how it feels to be ill and want a bit of help, then I would say try your best to lend your hand out to someone else. I think that would be very kind and very lovely of you. However, on the other hand, you shouldn't feel guilty for not wanting to miss out on doing other activities because someone else is ill. She's not your child. You're not her guardian. If you spend time with her, it should be because you really did want to sit and spend time with her.
 
Would it be feasible for you to invite people to you for Christmas dinner, if they can get there. Then you can invite and spend it with who you want? It would be in your home on your terms.

Anyway I hope you have a nice day whatever you choose to do. Please do want you want.
 
TheRealCallie said:
I think you should do what YOU want to do. Stop putting other people before yourself. Christmas is about being with people you care about and who care about you, so it sounds like the church dinner with your friend is more in line with something you would want for the holidays.

**** right.

Triple Bogey said:
I didn't understand all of it to be honest but please put yourself first. Sod your neighbour (who let you down last year). Whatever happens, be at the Christmas dinner with your other friend. And don't feel bad about it either.

That's right. And after getting stiffed last year she should do what she wants and that's that.
 
BeyondShy said:
Triple Bogey said:
I didn't understand all of it to be honest but please put yourself first. Sod your neighbour (who let you down last year). Whatever happens, be at the Christmas dinner with your other friend. And don't feel bad about it either.

That's right. And after getting stiffed last year she should do what she wants and that's that.

I don't think it's quite cut-and-paste like that. If it were, there wouldn't be an issue out of it. But, there's bouncing back and forth between feelings, saddling the fence. And, honestly, I get it. Between really doing what you want to do, and not wanting to be harsh over turning down other offers, I can understand where Tiina is coming from.
 
VanillaCreme said:
I don't think it's quite cut-and-paste like that. If it were, there wouldn't be an issue out of it. But, there's bouncing back and forth between feelings, saddling the fence. And, honestly, I get it. Between really doing what you want to do, and not wanting to be harsh over turning down other offers, I can understand where Tiina is coming from.

Yes Ma'am I understand. But I agreed with what Callie and Bogey said because of Tiina'a original post. She was so disappointed at what happened last year. I wouldn't want her to go through the same thing again because that person could not commit. But yes, you don't want to be harsh about it either. This is a fine line she has to be on but I hope she ends up doing what she wants to do and doesn't have to settle for anything less.
 
BeyondShy said:
VanillaCreme said:
I don't think it's quite cut-and-paste like that. If it were, there wouldn't be an issue out of it. But, there's bouncing back and forth between feelings, saddling the fence. And, honestly, I get it. Between really doing what you want to do, and not wanting to be harsh over turning down other offers, I can understand where Tiina is coming from.

Yes Ma'am I understand. But I agreed with what Callie and Bogey said because of Tiina'a original post. She was so disappointed at what happened last year. I wouldn't want her to go through the same thing again because that person could not commit. But yes, you don't want to be harsh about it either. This is a fine line she has to be on but I hope she ends up doing what she wants to do and doesn't have to settle for anything less.

Callie and bogey ?
Sounds like a comedy act.
 
Hi and thank you to everyone who has replied. I tried to write twice before now but couldn't find the words. Have been
and am very stressed still.
Peaches and VC-my neighbour is in her early fifties (younger than I am) and although she had surgery, it was only a
small operation and she will be almost recovered by Christmas. She can go out now if someone else drives (because it's
painful because of stitches if she tired to drive at present) and has been out shopping a couple of times and out for a meal
as well.
I went today to take her dogs out and one of her friends was there and she invited my neighbour to her place for
Christmas Day while I was there but the neighbour said she would rather go to the Salvation Army with me. (This is the
latest plan.) I said that, from next Christmas onwards, I want us to have seperate arrangements for Christmas as the
uncertainty is too much. (She is still holding out for an invitation from her son, though thinks at best he will pop in for an hour or two at most, fitting her round his other plans). She got upset when I said this about separate arrangements for C Day from next year onwards. Her son doesn't know what he will be doing but she thinks he wants to go to his fiancee's mum, and that they look down on my neighbour and won't want her along because they didn't last year. Why all this has been dumped onto me makes me feel so frustrated.
One reason I feel I ought to see her is religious. She isn't into God at all and I believe in Him and I already feel
guilty enough about not wanting her coming to the church my friend goes to (to which I won't now be going) and so I feel
that going with her to the Salvation Army (where there is a service, about which she is not happy) is something God
would want me to do, though I wish that He wouldn't want it.
Serenia-I don't know enough people to invite on Christmas Day. My circle of friends is tiny. Most people I meet regularly
are in social groups and they have at least one sibling to be with at Christmas.
Am suddenly wondering if I am subconsciously picking up on something emotional/psychological from her. She said that last C Day when her son only called to see her in the morning and then went to his fiancée's parent's house that she said to him something about leaving her on her own on C Day, that she was a good person who had done voluntary work and didn't deserve it etc. My late mother was good at making me feel guilty and I am wondering if I am picking up on her feelings towards her son and internalising them?
 

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