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banning policy
#21
Then who has the authority to make the call? Bjarne has been absent for a long time now. It would seem that the choice is yours (and by 'you', I mean all of the mods) by default. It's all well and good to claim that you just work here, but ALL is essentially run at your discretion and it is your choice as to whether or not basic forum policy should be altered or amended. If you're unwilling to make the decision, that's a different story altogether, but it rings a little hollow to say that you're unable to do so. Choosing not to make a decision is still making a decision.
No one can pull anyone back from anywhere. You save yourself or you remain unsaved.
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#22
(02-09-2016, 05:12 AM)VanillaCreme Wrote:
(02-09-2016, 05:07 AM)lifestream Wrote: Forgive me, but that seems like a somewhat arbitrary way of doing things. The thing about evidence is that it can be used to spin all kinds of bias and misinterpretations. A concrete set of rules which, if broken, are punishable by warnings or bans makes the issue far less vulnerable to human error.

Ah, you may be right. But, then you get people who, when they see fit, argue over how the rules are stupid and senseless to them. What would be your reply to that? Because we get both sides. "That's not in the rules. There are no rules. Where is that in the rules?" As well as, "Well, that rule is stupid, and it shouldn't be there because it's stupid."

Have there been a lot of members who've successfully used that argument? Most of the members I 've encountered over the past 5+ years are not arguers. I don't think the forum's rules of conduct or lack thereof should be driven by the arguers.

It doesn't make sense to throw the baby out with the bath water.

-Teresa
Come away, O human child!
To the waters and the wild
With a faery, hand in hand,
For the world’s more full of weeping than you can understand.
-WB Yeats
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#23
(02-09-2016, 06:05 AM)lifestream Wrote: Then who has the authority to make the call? Bjarne has been absent for a long time now. It would seem that the choice is yours (and by 'you', I mean all of the mods) by default. It's all well and good to claim that you just work here, but ALL is essentially run at your discretion and it is your choice as to whether or not basic forum policy should be altered or amended. If you're unwilling to make the decision, that's a different story altogether, but it rings a little hollow to say that you're unable to do so. Choosing not to make a decision is still making a decision.

Is that not the job or duty of the forum moderators themselves? To have that authority to make those calls? Whether some members agree with them is completely irrelevant to the fact that that's what moderators on forums or chat rooms are for. This all leads back to not wanting to listen to what's being said. Because, written rules or not, you still get people who want to argue the things they're told, even if they can be pointed back to a rules list.

(02-09-2016, 06:12 AM)SofiasMami Wrote: Have there been a lot of members who've successfully used that argument? Most of the members I 've encountered over the past 5+ years are not arguers.

Not really. Because either way, they just want what they want. You must not pay attention to who wants to argue that though.
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#24
If people complain about a rule being unjust, then that's what the appeals process is for. Rules can and do work as long as we abide by them and if we don't, then that's what punitive measures are for. I'm sorry, but I think your argument that if rules were instituted then people would rail against them and work to subvert them is circular logic. People have attempted to evade justice since Hammurabi's Code and still civilisation is based on a set of laws.
No one can pull anyone back from anywhere. You save yourself or you remain unsaved.
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#25
There are rules. No where did I argue or say there weren't any. Just because they're not written down in a neat list doesn't mean they aren't to be implemented. In fact, that's what some folks do want to argue over, and I really don't know why. No one should have to be told not to do something that's obviously wrong in order to just not do it. If there's ever any question, then by all means, ask away. Complaints are looked into as well. They're not ignored. Just because they're not handled in the way that the complainer wants doesn't mean they weren't dealt with.
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#26
It's not about telling people what to do or think, it's about having a tangible set of rules that are enforced and abided by. If they're not available so that everyone can see them, then I'm afraid things like right or wrong become rather vague and subject to revision. A visible list of forum rules makes eminent sense to me, and clearly to other people too. This is a community, not a Kafka novel.
No one can pull anyone back from anywhere. You save yourself or you remain unsaved.
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#27
Right, and it doesn't matter if they are tangible or not. You'll still get people saying things and wanting to complain or argue those tangible rules. So whether they're listed or not, it doesn't matter. We get both sides of the fence with it.
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#28
I'm all for transparency. If there are rules being applied by the moderators (other than no spamming, porn, etc) why not be open with those? What we call common sense is not always that common.
I've been gravitating to other public forums that are transparent and consistent with handling all members and I would love to see that here as well. Posting a few rules of conduct is not too much to ask for.

-Teresa
Come away, O human child!
To the waters and the wild
With a faery, hand in hand,
For the world’s more full of weeping than you can understand.
-WB Yeats
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#29
But it does matter. If people can't see the rules, then how are they supposed to know they exist? There are people from many different cultures on ALL. Some where the rules of socialisation are quite different from the English-speaking world. How would you advise them to behave on ALL?
No one can pull anyone back from anywhere. You save yourself or you remain unsaved.
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#30
(02-09-2016, 07:52 AM)lifestream Wrote: But it does matter. If people can't see the rules, then how are they supposed to know they exist? There are people from many different cultures on ALL. Some where the rules of socialisation are quite different from the English-speaking world. How would you advise them to behave on ALL?

Because they're told things when something happens. Like I said, with rules not even out there for us to follow, we apply them across the board once they've been established. I'll grant you the option of maybe it would help some, but what about those who say, "Those rules are dumb," and want to argue anyway. How would you go about resonding to that? Because that is why I say - at least for those who would argue anyway - that it doesn't really matter on the moderating side. Once again, damned if we do, damned it we don't.
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