Pushing People Away

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Case

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Why is it that when I get more depressed and lonely that I push away the people who could help me the most?

I'm having a difficult time being between jobs and having to move three times in the last few months, and my friends know I am struggling. But I've been doing something lately that seems utterly counter-productive.

Today, I was with three lady friends, one of whom is one of my best friends. I'll call her "M." We used to hang out a lot, talk about our respective lives, see movies, share advice, etc. Over the last year or two, we've been less social like that, and I only see "M" in groups because she is so busy. So, if I'm not doing well, after one of these gatherings, she'd stop me before I left and we'd talk for a bit about how things are going. "M" has helped me so much in the recent past that I literally feel like we are siblings. I am so fortunate to be able to call her my friend.

Anyway, back to today. I'm joking, laughing, and having a good time with my friends, but I am really just trying my hardest not to think about me, or my problems, or anything that has to do with my current situation. But "M" has always been able to sense my body language, and I'm not doing much to hide it. Half the time, I'm sitting in a chair, laughing, and my body-language makes me look like I'm about to be scolded; shoulders hunched, hands between my legs grabbing the edge of the chair, arms stiff, occasionally rocking forward and backward... Not exactly the model of relaxation, right?

Now, the kicker is that I don't want to discuss anything after our meeting. I feel that there is a high probability that "M" will stop me before I get to my car, and ask me how I am doing. And I don't want to have this conversation. So, when it comes time to leave, I am the first one out the door, and I cannot wait to get away.

Why? "M" is like my sister. Why am I scared to talk to her? I almost ran out of the place like I was late trying to catch a train. I can only imagine what she must be thinking about me. But I have been pushing her away, and I don't get it. It's the first time I've felt so low that I have started declining invitations, avoided talking about my situation, and certainly the first time I'm practically running away to avoid my best friend.

Is there a level of depression where this is normal, where shunning my best friend makes any sense at all?

TL: DR - I'm so depressed now that I'm pushing away the most important people in my life and I don't know why I am so afraid to talk to them.
 
Maybe you're scared of getting hurt again by someone? Thus creating a wall between you and the others. Maybe it's a low self-esteem (don't know you, so don't take this personally)? I think it's kinda normal in depressing state of life to think about very fearfully about different situations without any logical reasons at all.
 
When I am very depressed I am so scared of being rejected (because of certain past experiences) that I tend to avoid talking to people about it as well. Also, depression is so exhausting that even talking about how you are feeling can be too much. M sounds really caring and supportive so you could explain to her that you aren't feeling up to talking about how you are feeling but will contact her when you feel like talking about it. She will understand.
 
lonelyfairy said:
Maybe you're scared of getting hurt again by someone?

Mmm, no. I don't think it's a fear of getting hurt. I'm already hurting. It's a fear of disappointing people, possibly, or maybe the irrational feeling that I don't measure up to my potential, and the fear of admitting that to someone. I sense a bit of pride getting in the way and making me avoid admitting a weakness. Which is complete BS, especially considering how much my friend knows about my life.

lonelyfairy said:
Maybe it's a low self-esteem (don't know you, so don't take this personally)?

I don't take it personally. My self-esteem has certainly taken a major hit lately. The part of my brain that says, "Oh, woe is me" is working overtime right now. I cannot deny that this has affected me. It's a hard mental state to get out of, but it's not impossible.

Tiina63 said:
Also, depression is so exhausting that even talking about how you are feeling can be too much.

Yes. "Exhausting" is a very good word for how I've been feeling.

Tiina63 said:
M sounds really caring and supportive so you could explain to her that you aren't feeling up to talking about how you are feeling but will contact her when you feel like talking about it. She will understand.

Yes. She's one of the most caring people I know. And I'm sure she will understand. She's the only one I know who lets me vent and get it all out. So, I know she knows I'm not in a good place right now. It's just odd to me that of all people, I would start to avoid her. That seems to be an indication that I'm not getting better, but slowly worse. But, I think it's a good thing that I'm identifying it and aware of how I'm thinking.
 
Case said:
Why is it that when I get more depressed and lonely that I push away the people who could help me the most?

When I was the abuse concubine of my abusive boss I pushed everyone away. I became isolated and never wanted to be around others. One reason was that I was so angry all the time. How could I hear all the good things that were happening to them without wanting to smack them. I also worried, and this did happen, that if I told them what was wrong, and there was no way out, they would offer me stupid solutions that wouldn't work and then get tired of me. Most people didn't understand what I was going through and just couldn't relate so they would offer half hearted solutions which, weren't because there weren't any.

Basically I just didn't want to talk because I wasn't in a good place and I didn't want to burden others.
 
LonelySutton said:
When I was the abuse concubine of my abusive boss I pushed everyone away. I became isolated and never wanted to be around others. One reason was that I was so angry all the time. How could I hear all the good things that were happening to them without wanting to smack them.

I expect that was difficult. Mine is less about anger and more about self-loathing.

LonelySutton said:
Basically I just didn't want to talk because I wasn't in a good place and I didn't want to burden others.

That certainly describes me right about now. I know I have nothing positive to say about myself, and so I pull away from everyone to avoid having to express that negativity to anyone. No one wants to be around someone who isn't in a good place. I'm just making it easier on them.
 
I was going to post another thread, but I figured I already started this one, so I might as well continue it. It's not getting a lot of attention, but who cares, right?

So, I was watching a YouTube video of a guy coming out as bisexual, and he said something that resonated with me. He was talking about how, as a boy, he told his ultra-religious family that he liked both girls and boys. They told him very strongly that he can't like boys, so he completely repressed those feelings. The way he dealt with it is by overeating, or as he put it, "eating his feelings." So, he became morbidly obese. (He has since lost all the weight.) But here is the thing that resonated with me... He said he wanted to be invisible.

Now, I'm unlike the YouTube guy in the sense that I'm comfortable in my own sexuality. I'm a straight dude, and I've never had to struggle with my identity like that YouTuber, so I consider myself very lucky. But when he said he wanted to be invisible, my jaw hit the floor because that is something I have always wanted. I have always wanted to just disappear.

All my life, I was the shy kid, the quiet kid, the kid who never spoke, the kid who never wanted to be asked a question in class, or give a speech, or stand in front of a group of people, feeling 100 pairs of eyes on me. I was painfully shy about a great many things. All the way up to my 20s, I lived with this great anxiety of people looking at me, or people laughing at me, or people playing tricks on me. It became a phobia to where I would go out of my way to avoid these people, avoid any scenario where these fears would be triggered, and it was exhausting.

Then, I took meds that helped me deal with my social anxiety, but years later, I feel like I'm almost right back to the teenager I was long ago who just wanted to hide, and to be invisible.

Right now, I am wasting away. I haven't eaten three meals a day in about three months, so I have lost a ton of weight. I recently took off my shirt to take a shower and the person who looked back at me was the skinny shy guy I was when I was fifteen. My clothes hang on me, my belt's barely holds my pants up at the moment. People know that I'm having a hard time, too, which is hard to hear.

I have two immediate problems: One, I'm unemployed, and two, I am moving against my will on March 1st and I do not have a permanent place to stay. So, I asked a friend if I can crash with her while I pick up the pieces of my life. she specifically told me, "I don;t want you to use this as a crutch." And later, I thought, what is a crutch but an implement that helps you heal from an injury? Perhaps she meant that I should use this time to get my shot together.

Anyway, there's a third problem and that's the fact that I am paralyzed by depression and it's causing my life to crumble. It's sent my self-esteem into the toilet, my confidence has dropped to zero, my energy is gone since I'm depressed and I don't eat, and I am pushing everyone away because I don't want to burden anyone with the honeysuckle I am going through. It is not an exaggeration to say that this very moment is the worst time in my life. I don't say that lightly, nor do I say that to be dramatic. It's just that in every moment in my life, I have been able to go from one job right into the next. Now, I haven't had a permanent job in almost two years, and I feel like a total failure at life. I can't show my face to my few friends, but when I do, they ask me how I am, and I say "Not good," and they act helpless, as if they're watching a guy slowly dying. I feel like I'm dying, actually.

On Sunday, some friends are going to ask me to accompany them to meet some people next week. On any normal day, I would gladly say yes, but my current state tells me that this is a really bad idea for me. I feel like meeting new people would just force me to be complete phony for a few hours, and then switch off the mask when I get back home. So, I have the option of being phony for a few hours, which is always a drain on my energy, or I disappoint my friends and tell them I can't go.

(sigh)

All I know is that my life is going to change on March 1st. Only time will tell is I have the courage to climb my way out of this shithole I'm in.
 
Case said:
But when he said he wanted to be invisible, my jaw hit the floor because that is something I have always wanted. I have always wanted to just disappear.

I want to be invisible. Have my whole life. At work I just shut my office door all day and never come out. That isn't some sort of horrific defect. More likely an introvert.

I admit that you have to have the courage to pull yourself out of this spiral but I do kind of think along the lines of your friend. Your kind of using this as a crutch. You admitted before you could get a temp job if you wanted and that you had unemployment. You also said you had options for an apartment. So you should start a plan tonight.

- job,
- place to live,
- better job,
- better place to live
And the specific steps you will take to get there.
- you will get to eating three meals a day,
- you will wake up at a certain time every day -- even if you don't do anything.

I don't know if you have seen the movie Mr. Mom. The main character gets laid off and can't get another job (1980s Detroit) and really spirals into a depression where he just watches the young and the restless all day and stays in a bathrobe. Played for laughs but when we first saw it my dad was sitting with us in a bathroom having not shaved and just finishing his daily "one life to live" episode. There is an "out of work" malaise that hits the best of them.

Sure dad still watched one life to live "oh that Dorian" but he got up over the next few weeks, got dressed, and spent every morning at the employment resource center. No matter if he had any leads or not. You just have to force yourself out of it. It isn't some sign of some bigger catastrophic depression that you can't free yourself from.

In terms of the job situation maybe you want to consider a complete change. I don't know what you do but perhaps look into a career that would be more stable? Gov't work? State or Local.
 
LonelySutton said:
I want to be invisible. Have my whole life. At work I just shut my office door all day and never come out. That isn't some sort of horrific defect. More likely an introvert.

I'm definitely an introvert, so even if things were going swimmingly, I'd still be a reserved personality. Maybe not wishing to be invisible, but wanting a low profile.

LonelySutton said:
I admit that you have to have the courage to pull yourself out of this spiral but I do kind of think along the lines of your friend. Your kind of using this as a crutch. You admitted before you could get a temp job if you wanted and that you had unemployment. You also said you had options for an apartment.

Well, I did have options for an apartment, but none of them panned out. The job thing, I have been slacking on, and I admit it. I understand the concern of using my friend and then not doing anything about my situation. THAT would be using her as a crutch. As it is now, I have no one putting any pressure on me, and I default to doing nothing particularly when I am depressed and I just want to curl into a ball in bed.

But if I stay with my friend, the pressures increase. Under that scenario, the clock will be ticking. I will be roused into action to get out of her house as quickly as possible. Both because I want to keep her as a friend, but also because I have been down in the dumps for too long and I need some kind of fear motivating me. That's what motivates me more than anything else: Fear. So, if I fear disappointing my friend, then I will go out of my way to prevent that from happening.

LonelySutton said:
So you should start a plan tonight.

Yes. I have an app on my phone that is a bit of a planner. You set goals, create deadlines, and if you attain goals before the deadline, you get points in the app. It's very basic, but it's a good way to keep me on track. By the way, thanks for the list. These may seem like things that others do by rote, but I'm in a position where I have to relearn how to do certain things.

LonelySutton said:
I don't know if you have seen the movie Mr. Mom. The main character gets laid off and can't get another job (1980s Detroit) and really spirals into a depression where he just watches the young and the restless all day and stays in a bathrobe. Played for laughs but when we first saw it my dad was sitting with us in a bathroom having not shaved and just finishing his daily "one life to live" episode. There is an "out of work" malaise that hits the best of them.

Sure dad still watched one life to live "oh that Dorian" but he got up over the next few weeks, got dressed, and spent every morning at the employment resource center. No matter if he had any leads or not. You just have to force yourself out of it. It isn't some sign of some bigger catastrophic depression that you can't free yourself from.

I remember "Mr Mom." And you're right about pulling myself out of the hole I'm in. All my life, depression has been a comfort to me. Maybe even an addiction. It's like the friend who is always there for you, but who is also your heroin dealer... Not that I've ever done that, but all I'm saying is that depression gives me a familiar feeling, like that heroin dealer. I know I'm going to be comforted by a familiar feeling, but the end result is the downward spiral. And all I have to do is take small steps to slowing the descent. That's another thing that is big with depression, as I'm sure you know. Depression makes you see the state you're in as the tallest mountain in the work that you have to climb. All you see is how far it is to the top, and you are discouraged from even trying. But every goal starts with the first step, which is very small, followed by another step, then another, and another. I know I am capable of righting the ship. (Look at me with the analogies. First I'm a mountain climber, and now I'm a sea captain. lol)

LonelySutton said:
In terms of the job situation maybe you want to consider a complete change. I don't know what you do but perhaps look into a career that would be more stable? Gov't work? State or Local.

At this point, I'm open. I have little to no real expenses to worry about, except for some manageable debt, so I'm not in financial peril. I'm open to many things. I just have to be more confident in my skills and feel better about my chances.
 
Case said:
Why is it that when I get more depressed and lonely that I push away the people who could help me the most?

Could it be because you want to? I know I'd rather keep people at arm's length.
 
Case said:
I'm definitely an introvert, so even if things were going swimmingly, I'd still be a reserved personality. Maybe not wishing to be invisible, but wanting a low profile.

I was going to complain here about how I didn't go to a work party -- because I don't want to be seen-- and apparently everyone I know spent the night somewhat making fun of me. Though they think they are being kind.

At this point, I'm open. I have little to no real expenses to worry about, except for some manageable debt, so I'm not in financial peril. I'm open to many things. I just have to be more confident in my skills and feel better about my chances.

My recommendation is to look at federal or state government jobs. Entry level. Most of those come with decent pay (even if not at first) good benefits and a culture of never laying employees off (either naturally or via unions) and of course, some sort of pension. I think it would be easy to say you are looking for a career change. I do think it can be harder to get a job when you are a little older but you do just have to keep at it. In a way I would say you need to get hopping because at a certain point because the older you get the less they will want to hire you.
 
Case said:
... I'm so depressed now that I'm pushing away the most important people in my life and I don't know why I am so afraid to talk to them.

Perhaps your fear is related to the intensity of your thoughts and feelings:
that somehow if you share this aspect of yourself it will drive these people away
- which it may or may not do - thus your fear may be justified.

Are you able to ask these people for a little of their time to listen to you?

If so, you might like to begin by letting them know how depressed you're feeling.

You can judge for yourself (by their responses) whether or not they're willing to listen to you on more than a superficial level,
which will determine the further extent of the conversation.
 
LonesomeDay said:
Perhaps your fear is related to the intensity of your thoughts and feelings:
that somehow if you share this aspect of yourself it will drive these people away

Actually, my logical mind knows that they would not be driven away. They are all good people. Instead, it's my arse-hole brain telling me lies like, "They're too busy for the likes of YOU," or "They don't even care," or, "They have better things to do than listen to your sob story BS. Like succeeding at life where you cannot."

So, I just need to quiet the arse-hole in my head.

LonesomeDay said:
Are you able to ask these people for a little of their time to listen to you?

If so, you might like to begin by letting them know how depressed you're feeling.

They know. But only one of the people I was pushing away is someone I'd really talk openly to, and she knows me better than most. I texted her today to explain that I haven't been doing well lately. She said she knew. I told her that I have been pushing her away, and I felt badly about that because I should be able to turn to my friends if I need them. She said it was okay, and that she just feels helpless to help me. (But honestly, no one else in my life has offered as much of their time to help me in the past five months or so than this woman. She's one of my very best friends.) So, we're fine now, but I'm still not willing to open up yet.

I think I need a therapist or someone who I can not only unload all of the negative crap happening in my head, but also to get solid advice on improving my life so that I can take any burden (if it exists) off my friends. I tend to use my friends as surrogate therapists because I am always very open with my closest friends, and I can only imagine how tiring it is to see me always acting like Eeyore on Winnie the Pooh. lol

But there's the old adage, "This too shall pass." I just need to believe it.
 
I can totally relate to you on pushing your best friend away. On skype there are times where i go completely silent because i don't want her to know i'm hurting, so maybe you're hiding the fact that you're hurting to protect her? It may not be the exact reasoning, but i believe we can pick up vibes when our friend is low and maybe you know that she's picking up on that.

It's totally normal to push people away, especially if you're protecting yourself and others. Stay strong, Case. Big Hugs your way!
 
Well, I got a wake-up call today. My best friend "M" group texted me on FB with two other friends asking if I was alive and to engage in their FB Messenger conversations.

Instead of replying on FB, I texted her phone explaining that my depression means that I have negative thoughts, and that my friends are so cheerful that I can't match their positivity.

"M" proceeded to tell me about her mother, who had surgery in February to unblock a few arteries around her intestines. The surgery went well, and she is in physical therapy. This surgery was smack dab in the middle of the worst part of my recent depression. So, "M" recounted a conversation where her mother said she didn't remember me asking how she was doing. Ever. (Which isn't true. I have been in her house talking about her difficulties before.)

Suddenly, I was faced with the consequences of pushing people away. M's mother must have thought I didn't care. In fact, M called my actions selfish.

Nice to know that one of my best friends thinks my depression is just a selfish act. I understand that depression creates a mental state that causes the sufferer to only think about the thoughts that consume them, but it's an illness. I would have hoped M would understand that. It's not like I ever set out to ignore her mom's ailments, but my all-consuming brain does not let me rest.

So now I feel like honeysuckle about M's mother, and I have to be in a car with her on a 4 hour drive on Saturday.

How do I smooth things over with my best friend and her mother in time for Saturday?

UPDATE: M told me that I should "fake it until I make it," which I take to mean that I need to lie about myself, lie to people that I am not suffering, lie that I don't want to curl up into a ball in bed every day. So I told her I will. I will fake it. I will lie to everyone and act like I'm doing great. This runs counter to every instinct I have, but if my job is to make everyone else happy, fine. My life is no longer for me. It's for everyone else.
 
@Case If you feel you can be honest, I would ask M's mother about her surgery and apologize that you did not inquire sooner as you were going through a rough patch in your life and suffering from depression. If you are taking medicine and therapy, I would mention these things to show you are getting treatment.

M does not seem to understand how severely depression is affecting you, or how you avoided interacting with M because you didn't wish to be a draining influence. You might want to point M to sources online about how depression affects people and explain how depression is rarely ever "cured." There will always be good days and bad days.

My advice is to talk to both separately. I think M's mother would be more understanding as she's had more life experiences. She might talk to M on your behalf. It's a horrible place to be. Most people don't realize depressed people push others away for what they believe is their good rather than for themselves. I don't have any magical answers, but I hope you feel better soon and that you have some other friends or family that you can talk to about the situation. *hugs*
 
Case said:
UPDATE: M told me that I should "fake it until I make it," which I take to mean that I need to lie about myself, lie to people that I am not suffering, lie that I don't want to curl up into a ball in bed every day. So I told her I will. I will fake it. I will lie to everyone and act like I'm doing great. This runs counter to every instinct I have, but if my job is to make everyone else happy, fine. My life is no longer for me. It's for everyone else.

I don't think you have to lie necessarily. I don't tell most people how I really feel, but I never lie about it. When I say I'm good or okay, it means just that. I rarely say that I feel fantastic, because I rarely feel that way. Just don't feel as though you have to lie through your teeth to make it through. You don't. If you don't feel tap-dancing happy, that's perfectly fine.
 
Case said:
It's a fear of disappointing people, possibly, or maybe the irrational feeling that I don't measure up to my potential.

I have failed to visit my maternal grandmother who I adore because i dont want to depress her. She loves me and I'm scared I will loose my honeysuckle and cry to her and I worry that I will upset her and cause her a stroke. She's lonely and wants me to visit. I want to visit so badly but I dont want to kill her and make her depressed and worried. I cant hold my self together around her because she's so caring and she validates me for all my pain and suffering. She makes me want to cry in her arms forever. I just cant be around her, my traumas would traumatize her and I dont want to depress her or kill her.

Its that real to me, so maybe this is the case with your friend... fear of loosing your s**t and/or fear of causing others to feel painful empathy and depression for you.
 
I internally fight with myself with dealing with people, there are times I feel lonely and would like to be around people, then when I am around people I just want to get away and be by myself again.

I have that issue with making calls as well, I feel like I need to reach out and communicate with a friend, then when a friend calls I will think "God why are you bothering me", just how I am I guess, I gave up trying to figure myself out along time ago, I can only guess what someone else would thinks of me, I assume that is why I don't have many friends.
 
VanillaCreme said:
Case said:
UPDATE: M told me that I should "fake it until I make it," which I take to mean that I need to lie about myself, lie to people that I am not suffering, lie that I don't want to curl up into a ball in bed every day. So I told her I will. I will fake it. I will lie to everyone and act like I'm doing great. This runs counter to every instinct I have, but if my job is to make everyone else happy, fine. My life is no longer for me. It's for everyone else.

I don't think you have to lie necessarily. I don't tell most people how I really feel, but I never lie about it. When I say I'm good or okay, it means just that. I rarely say that I feel fantastic, because I rarely feel that way. Just don't feel as though you have to lie through your teeth to make it through. You don't. If you don't feel tap-dancing happy, that's perfectly fine.

Gotta agree with Nilla here.

Faking it till you make it doesn't mean you gotta lie. It's just like playing pretend, call it being in denial or whatever - I find that if I didn't do this previously, I wouldn't have been able to move forward at all. Just needed that kickstart. As for you, it can just be a nudge towards feeling better about your situation.
 

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