Questions for the Women

Just to give update. I send message 3 days ago, still no answer. Fine with me. XD I really suck at dating, so I'm glad I didn't get reply.

Is believing that women are capable of doing their stuff on their own, inhumane?

M_also_lonely said:

Is believing that women are capable of doing their stuff on their own, inhumane?

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No, but not offering another human (regardless of gender) assistance when they are carrying something quite large kind of is.  
I have offered to help men, as much as I have women.  It's just the decent thing to do, IMO.

Naleena said:

Naleena said:

I think it might be cool to have a thread where you can ask women thier opinions on dating or relationship issues Soooo...ask away!

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Girls, I'll start this.
1.What are some of the behaviors that you find attractive in a man on a date?
2. What are some behaviors you don't like on a date?

1. For me, I like it when they rush to hold the door open and when they offer thier jacket to you when it's cold. You know they are cold but, would rather see you warm : )  I guess, I like the feeling of being cared for.

2. NOTHING, and I mean NOTHING turns me off anymore than going on a date and seeing a man be rude to a waitress or someone helping us. There was one man I went out on a date with who was a very intelligent and sucessful man. We double dated with a friend of mine and he was angry that the waiter hadn't made it round. He ordered drinks and then said, "Hurry it up" to the waiter. His tone was rude and my friend and I looked at each other. He didn't get another date. Nothing he could have said or done that evening would have made up for what he did. You can tell a lot by a person by looking at how they treat others-especially others that that person can't gain anything from. I don't care how much money a man has, or how good he looks or how sucessful he is; if he treats someone badly, especially someone in a service field, I wouldn't give him the time of day. It's not what a man has, it's how he acts that impresses me.

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Hahaha oh god where to start. 

Things I find attractive in a date:
Kindness to waiting staff and pretty much everyone who isn't a cock.
Talking about aspirations and having plenty of enthusiasm. 
Obviously humour is up there. 
Openness and honesty


That's it really. 

The list of things I don't like is consequently a lot longer
Snobbery 
Rudeness
Talking ill of anyone 
Constantly talking about politics (yawn, get off your soap box) 
Being a debbie downer, I like openness but it's not date talk when the person goes on about their life tragedies 
Talking about an ex partner 
Looking at their phone all the time 
Doesn't start one conversation, always relies on me to make the conversion

Brennabean said:

Kindness to waiting staff and pretty much everyone who isn't a cock.

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Lol, I thought that said "Kindness to waiting staff and pretty much everyone who isn't a cook."
I thought wtf for a good second before I realised

What's your take/thoughts on men's rights advocacy ?

MisterLonely said:

What's your take/thoughts on men's rights advocacy ?

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Good question! Hard to answer though, how would I know what it's like to be man? 
So what kind of things do men fight for? 

The right to get custody over children. I dig it. 

The right to leave his wife without having to lose half of his salary. I dig it, but child support should definitely stay mandatory. 

The right to not be a victim of domestic abuse. Also dig it. 

The right to not be expected to pay the bill on a date? This one I don't know too well as I've always paid my half or even the whole bill if I wanted it to be my treat. But from what my male friends have told me a lot of girls expect it and I guess that's pretty wrong. 

The right to have their emotions heard and understood without the words "patriarchy" or "pussy" or any of the like interrupting them. I dig that too. 

The right not to be over penalised by the justice system. Definitely dig it. 

What else do mens rights activists advocate for?

MisterLonely said:

What's your take/thoughts on men's rights advocacy ?

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Should be treated the same as we are. What ruins that, for any group of people, are those that say they want equality but don't want to actually practice it. Because in theory, it's a great idea. But when it's put into practice and they don't get any special treatment, it's horrible.

But I think they should be treated no differently than women, be it in courts for child custody or a domestic dispute, or training for police work or firefighter work.

Brennabean said:

The right to leave his wife without having to lose half of his salary. I dig it, but child support should definitely stay mandatory. 

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If the man is not allowed to live with his child, why should he pay for it?

M_also_lonely said:

Brennabean said:

The right to leave his wife without having to lose half of his salary. I dig it, but child support should definitely stay mandatory. 

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If the man is not allowed to live with his child, why should he pay for it?

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Because it's his child. Parents are supposed to pay for their children. If they don't want to, they usually sign away their rights.

VanillaCreme said:

Because it's his child. Parents are supposed to pay for their children. If they don't want to, they usually sign away their rights.

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If its his child, why doesn't he almost never gets custody? Hmm interesting. How it becomes "parents" tag is only named mostly on father when its about responsibility, and named mostly mother when getting the custody of child.

M_also_lonely said:

VanillaCreme said:

Because it's his child. Parents are supposed to pay for their children. If they don't want to, they usually sign away their rights.

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If its his child, why doesn't he almost never gets custody? Hmm interesting. How it becomes "parents" tag is only named mostly on father when its about responsibility, and named mostly mother when getting the custody of child.

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Custody usually depends on what is best for the situation. Thankfully, more and more judges are going with the notion that mothers are not always the best or a better caretaker. So they make their decision, if it goes to court, based on the circumstances.

Maybe one day a man who doesn't want a child when it was conceived will also have the right to decline supporting the mom's decision to keep it.

VanillaCreme said:

Custody usually depends on what is best for the situation.

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Like who is more capable to fulfill the resources needed to raise the child?  Doesn't seem to be the case, otherwise there would be no child support, or only in rare/special cases. But contrary to this, it is mandatory. So yeah, it doesn't seem to depend on what is best for the situation.

Mother who files for full custody, should get full responsibility.

DarkSelene said:

Mother who files for full custody, should get full responsibility.

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Exactly. The rule is simple: Rights and responsibilities should be parallel. Less rights, less responsibilities. More responsibilities, more rights.

The only thing I'd like to add into this particular debate is, it's not surprising so many men decide to not pay child support. Beyond the whole ethical or moral debate of the thing, my personal situation is that even though I make about 19 bucks an hour, once child support is taken off, I barely have enough to afford a very run down 3 1/2 and sometimes not enough to eat, because once child support and income tax is taken off I'm left with around 1700 a month even though I make 36k a year or about , while my ex, who's on welfare, gets monthly checks from my child support, government office and welfare, around 2800 a month.
One could argue it's because her costs are higher, yet since she never had to pay a dime for diapers, clothing, food and everything else since she's on welfare, she has two 40 inc plasma tvs, the internet, cellphone, takes cabs everywhere and lives like the Queen. I have nothing of that. Not to mention the whole other box of Pandora I don't want to open that due to recent events, I'm not convinced her having the kids is the wisest decision in the world.

This is going to sound a bit mysoginistic, but you don't know me and I assure you it's not, it's through bitter experience talking with lawyers and her over the years; you cannot try and win a court case for custody of children without it costing a fortune, because courts favor the mothers, even when mothers are clearly insuficient or incompetent, except in extreme case, when there's a high lethality risk for children, something the DPJ has been to bat with the governement many times since it's inception. Women are favored, not in all cases, but in most cases. That makes the typical father like me, who seperated because it simply wasn't working and I didn't want that kind of atmosphere for my children going up, the recepient of bad intentioned women's vengeances. Now, there's as many cases as their are people, so it's not a systematic thing, but my lawyer told me it's rather commonplace, which is why most guys chose to stay on welfare and refuse custody rights, because they don't want to eat Kraft Dinner until they are 60, which seems to be where I'm headed.

I think the entire system needs an overhaul. In seperation cases with children, a thorough psych evaluation should be done on both parents over the course of several months todetermine which would best be suited to maintain a good and well balanced childhood to children. That NEVER happens. And it should.
I also think that it used to work fine in the 60's when women were left with no ressources, because they had a hard time even finding work because of sexism and all that crap, but times have changed. If the burden is systematically placed on men, because they are men, it's not better than what the human race has done to women for the last 2000+ years.

That's all ;-)

Richard_39 said:

If the burden is systematically placed on men, because they are men, it's not better than what the human race has done to women for the last 2000+ years.

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What has the human race done to women for the last 2000+ years? Were those things specifically targeting females or did they affect the population as a whole?

DarkSelene said:

Richard_39 said:

If the burden is systematically placed on men, because they are men, it's not better than what the human race has done to women for the last 2000+ years.

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What has the human race done to women for the last 2000+ years? Were those things specifically targeting females or did they affect the population as a whole?

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Come on. Women only had the right to work starting in the 40's. Beating your wife senseless wasn't exactly a big thing in the 20's. Women used to be treated like second class citizens. That's not the case anymore. But slowly inversing evrything isn't going to fix anything, is what I mean. We're gunning for equal rights, but in certain cases, such as MANY child seperation cases, father's rights are less important than mothers rights. That's not better either.
I'm part of a fathers group for the last month and I can't begin to tell you the amount of sad stories where fathers tried to implicate themselves in their children lives but lost and ultimately quit because the courts and the systems automatically favored the mother. It's not right.

I don't mean this as a debate on feminism, I think it has it's place, I believe a middle line in all things is always better. IN seperation cases, that's often not the case.
The system needs to be changed and re-thought by people more intelligent than I am.

Richard_39 said:

Come on. Women only had the right to work starting in the 40's. Beating your wife senseless wasn't exactly a big thing in the 20's. Women used to be treated like second class citizens. That's not the case anymore. But slowly inversing evrything isn't going to fix anything, is what I mean. We're gunning for equal rights, but in certain cases, such as MANY child seperation cases, father's rights are less important than mothers rights. That's not better either.
I'm part of a fathers group for the last month and I can't begin to tell you the amount of sad stories where fathers tried to implicate themselves in their children lives but lost and ultimately quit because the courts and the systems automatically favored the mother. It's not right.

I don't mean this as a debate on feminism, I think it has it's place, I believe a middle line in all things is always better. IN seperation cases, that's often not the case.
The system needs to be changed and re-thought by people more intelligent than I am.

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Everyone who wasn't rich was treated as a second class citizen. Women that were rich had way more power in society than any poor dude, even white ones -- and that's going back to the 1800s, probably even further back.
Women were always able to work, they had the privilege to not have to work in dangerous environments and not have to be drafted to be blown up in a war.

They had less responsibilities and, in accordance, less rights. Then they fought for it and ended up with more rights and the same amount of responsibilities. Still less than that of any man.

Any targeted disadvantage you can think of will have an equal/similar one targeting the opposite sex. Not only that, but like the points you're making right now, a lot of those disadvantages are not really that -- maybe if you only look at it from one perspective.

I'm not trying to deny your point about the judicial system because you're absolutely correct, but your argument is one of the fundamentals that everyone seems to get wrong and one that everyone still uses.