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TheLoadedDog

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C'mon, how many of you guys are on the autism / Asperger's spectrum?

It is my first day here, and pretty much everybody is pinging my radar.

I am undiagnosed, but I'm pretty sure I'm right up there.  I keep closeted about it to my friends.  Not because I am ashamed, but because it's kinda become "cool" and I don't want to be seen to be jumping on the bandwagon.

Now, my ex girlfriend (I hate that teenaged term) is an Aspie.  Not only that, but she has a brain the size of a house, and she studies it.  She's had academic papers on autism published in prestigious peer reviewed journals.  Suffice it to say, she knows her stuff.

So, by way of background, we were friends for years before we had a relationship.

ME:  "So,  I umm....  suspect I might be on the spectrum somewhere myself."

"Nonsense.  You are a full on aspie."

"How do you know that?"

"Jeez.  I spotted you years ago."


I like trains.  I LOVE trains.  They are my life. I can bore you with the details of New South Wales railway signalling for hours. I like Star Trek.  I would rather go to a library than a nightclub. I hate bright lights, loud noises, and crowded places....


I can see quite a few fellow travellers on these forums.
 
I don't believe I am, though my daughter is.

Star Trek is fantastic by the way. (TNG at any rate, I wasn't so keen on the original), and libraries are always better than nightclubs :)
 
I'm diagnosed as having PDD-NOS. I don't agree with the diagnosis. I'm not sure what to think of autism. I'm not touching severe cases, don't know nearly enough about that, but, in the therapy group i've been in, which was specifically for autists, half of them lied for the money. The people that worked there were thoroughly convinced they were autistic. They all had experienced trauma of sorts.

I don't know.
 
Not everyone likes to identify with an illness. Like ADHD. (Right, not the same thing, well, I kind of lump them together, since the later is on the spectrum of the former).
Oh, my bad. It's not an illness. Just spoken like, diagnosed as and treated like one...
By my conservative estimates, most of my family members, friends and passing acquaintances shares 2 or more traits associated with the spectrum of autism. Some of them clinically diagnosed.
Pharmaceutical companies thank them for their generous contributions...

I was told the same thing, when I was around 5, by my school teachers to my dad. Of course, that was before the words autism or ADHD existed as they are today. The drugs were starting and my teachers at the time suggested my dad try those to "keep me calm". He suggested they get medical degrees and come talk to him again.
Then he trained me to be calm.

I love Star Trek. I hate trains, except when they blow up. I hate bright lights, crowded places and noises...but there's nothing like being drunk in a club hitting on a waitress until the bouncer kicks you out. AM I unique? You bet. Am I quick to identify with what is now referred to as a "neurodevelopmental disorder" to make people happy about it? Nope.

And it is definetely not "cool". Just goes to show you, if that's become the popular thing, that people are idiots. People see what they want to see and that's been the case since the beginning of time.

Welcome to the website, dude.
(Yeah, I'm super fun at parties. ;-) )
 
There is a whole lot of politics involved in this. Especially the gender stuff. Women are misdiagnosed, and my gf had a decade of being told she was bi-polar, and wass placed on anti-psychotic drugs. They ruined her life, and she took a unilateral decision to stop them. Then her life came together, and she went to university.

Susan (not her real name) told me that there is more political stuff with the labels of "high functioning" and "low functioning" autism. She told me that well-meaning people would come and pat her on the arm, and patronisingly say, "oh, aren't you simply MARVELLOUS? You are autistic but a university lecturer." She said the "high functioning" label does not account for the difficulties she faced daily. A one hour lecture she gave would result in twenty-four hours in bed recuperating from the social contact.


She lives far from the university. Two ways of getting there. First way is a train and a bus. Fifty minutes. Second way is to stay on the train. Near two hours. She told me she was considering option two.

"Why the devil would you do that?"

"Because the bus is small and intimate. There is inevitably one of my students on it and he or she will want to sit down next to me and make small talk. On top of the lecture, it is too much social cointact for the day, and I can't cope. On the train, it is eight carriages and double deck, and I can hide somewhere."
 
TheLoadedDog said:
There is a whole lot of politics involved in this.  Especially the gender stuff.  Women are misdiagnosed, and my gf had a decade of being told she was bi-polar, and wass placed on anti-psychotic drugs.  They ruined her life, and she took a unilateral decision to stop them.  Then her life came together, and she went to university.

Susan (not her real name) told me that there is more political stuff with the labels of "high functioning" and "low functioning" autism.  She told me that well-meaning people would come and pat her on the arm, and patronisingly say, "oh, aren't you simply MARVELLOUS?  You are autistic but a university lecturer."   She said the "high functioning" label does not account for the difficulties she faced daily.  A one hour lecture she gave would result in twenty-four hours in bed recuperating from the social contact.


She lives far from the university.  Two ways of getting there.  First way is a train and a bus.  Fifty minutes.  Second way is to stay on the train.  Near two hours.  She told me she was considering option two.

"Why the devil would you do that?"

"Because the bus is small and intimate.  There is inevitably one of my students on it and he or she will want to sit down next to me and make small talk.  On top of the lecture, it is too much social cointact for the day, and I can't cope.  On the  train, it is eight carriages and double deck, and I can hide somewhere."

LOL There's a lot of politics involved in ANYTHING, nowadays. Why do you think I hate society in general so much? ;-)
My youngest is diagnosed ADHD. 5 years latter and about 6 types of pills, her grades are still down, her mom refuses to let me help or send me homework because she's afraid I'll psychologically torture her )in 2017 talk, "force her to do something she doesn't enjoy, like practice for 1 hour on maths", yet all of her so-called ADHD symptoms disappear when she's with me. She's supposed to have opposition troubles, among other things, I have NEVER seen that kid be mean to anyone. I fear my kid was misdiagnosed because of insisting pressure of a hypocondriaque mom who put her inadequecies in parenting on the back of an illness. God forbid she take responsibility for anything in her life...
Except her son. Who is diagnosed autistic. Who's 5, whom she left day in day out in front of the tv, playing, of all games, Grand Theft Auto 5 while she chats on the phone....and now the kid is becoming violent. Her response? "Up the medication, he's getting worse"......................


LOL. Back to my point; people are idiots.

I'm not a sceptic, man. I know some kids need help sometimes, some kids are bad, and some autistic people need help to even accomplish mundane tasks. But we are way, way, WAY illequipped to handle it and much less smart about it than we think we are. Meanwhile, we're way too often playing russian roulette with 6 year old's lives and we have little to no idea how those extremely powerful chemicals will affect their brains or brawns 40 years from now if they stay on it. Which, if now is any indication, kids now in their early 20's who started taking those when they were 6-10 are STILL taking them, when recommendations are that prolonged use might be detrimentary if compensation measures aren't put into place...
Anyways, let's just say I have unpleasant personal experience with the whole concept lol. I think some people suffer for it, but in 2017? I think way too many people start seeing it in their soup, too.


Funny, cos 200 years ago we didn't have time to ask ourselves all these questions, because life was harder and we were busy trying to find potatoes to not die of hunger. I don't understand all that much of it beyond my personal experience and I don't want to pass judgment, but I'm afraid we might be doing, for now at least, more harm than good.
400 years from now, in the future, doctors will laugh at our barbaric practices just like Bones McCoy does.
I don't know though, so don't quote me on that. ;-)
 
Autism is not cool. I don't know why you think it is, but it's not. I'm not sure how I feel about undiagnosed people saying they have or may have autism. Why would you even want to tell anyone if you don't have a diagnosis. I could see if you went and got diagnosed, but if you have no intention of doing so, I'm not sure why you would even consider telling anyone. Even if you ex has autism and says you do, that doesn't mean you do.

As for autism itself, it's just a label. People with autism can usually do just about everything, it's just more difficult. That's especially true for high functioning. Yes, things are definitely more difficult, but as long as you work hard, you can overcome whatever. Sometimes it's just a matter of finding an alternative way to do it.
 
TheRealCallie said:
People with autism can usually do just about everything, it's just more difficult. That's especially true for high functioning. Yes, things are definitely more difficult, but as long as you work hard, you can overcome whatever. Sometimes it's just a matter of finding an alternative way to do it.

That is SO true. It is so refreshing to see someone else who thinks the same.
 
I'd say it's not that common here.

You should probably get a real diagnosis.

Also, since when has it been considered "cool"?
 
Hello. I haven't been to the doctors but I have a strong suspicion I'm slightly on the spectrum, my friends and family do too. I haven't gone to the doctors because it's never proved much of a problem for me other than I find it difficult to make friends... But I suppose the ones who do want to be friends with me are better people anyway because they try to understand the way I think and then realise I'm not being a dick hehe. That's just how I see it anyway.
 
OK, I'll tell you about the "cool" thing and my non-diagnosis...

I am, as I have said, a rallway enthusiast. This attracts autistic types. Twenty years ago, in the early days of the internet, I was on a railway forum. It was a forum just like this one. Trolls would come on and accuse us of all being autistic. A big stigma. We'd deny it.

Then times changed, and we'd answer, "well some of our people are autistic, but they are OUR autistic people, and our friends, so you bloody leave them alone."

Then it changed more. This is when it became "cool". Young idiot teenaged boys would come onto the forums and behave badly. We'd call them on it. "Oh no, Im am autistic. I have poor social skills." And we'd be like, "no mate, you're not autistic. You are a jerk."


Upthread, I gave a transcript of my conversation with my former gf. I didn't give the end of it, though.....

"So, even if I am autistic, I am undiagnosed."

"There is an increasing opinion within our community that doctors shouldn't be giving the diagnoses."

"Who should, then?"

"Other autistic people."

"Why?"

"Because we know, Doctors often get it wrong."


I'd like to be diagnosed yea or nay. But it's five hundred Australian dollars, and it wouldn't change anything. I'd walk out of there with a piece of paper in my hand,but I'd still be the same me.

I don't rush about claiming to be the autistic guy. In fact, the first time I've ever really broached the subject is here on some random loneliness forum where I am just a username who nobody knows, and I've been here less than a day. I can't make a claim on being autistic. But I can't make one on being neurotypical either. And in the end, it doesn't matter either way.
 
So I guess cancer patients should diagnose cancer patients and bipolar should diagnose bipolar and schizophrenics should diagnose schizophrenics? That's the worst idea I've heard in a long time.


TheLoadedDog said:
Then times changed, and we'd answer, "well some of our people are autistic, but they are OUR autistic people, and our friends, so you bloody leave them alone."

Also, wow.  That's kind of messed up. OUR autistic people?  They are PEOPLE, why are you labeling them?
 
"I'd walk out of there with a piece of paper in my hand,but I'd still be the same me."
Not quite. Well if world trends continue.
Some people here have been denied employment opportunities because of ADHD diagnostics. Totally illegal, but since they were given other reasons, companies get away with it. There was a report on Télé-QUébec about this growing phenomenon. There is some debate as to wether people with this disorder (any disorder on the spectrum of autism, that's an illness but that they call a disorder, but even they aren't sure so they don't really know) should be excluded from certain jobs.

To me, it's exactly the same thing as excluding someone because they are a different color. Or a different sex. Or because of something in their blood.
Some insurance companies charge extra premiums for coverage to ADHD or autistic people. Totally illegal to me, but as of now unstatuated in the courts. It's still discrimination. It all reminds me of "Gattaca" and the eugenics debate.

30 years from now it might be a lot worse than that. We won't know it, but our kids will. It's not the world I want to leave them in.
A diagnostics has a profound impact. I fought my daughter's diagnostic. Now, that diagnostic is, quite literally, attached to her school record. I fear for her employment chances someday.

Albert Einstein, one of the greatest minds of our time, would have been tagged on the spectrum of autism as well. He sucked horribly at algebra and had lots of troubles as a kid. He still figured out E=MC2. On pills...might not have.
And he sure would never have accomplished what he did if we had "shot him in the legs" beforehand.
 
TheRealCallie said:
So I guess cancer patients should diagnose cancer patients and bipolar should diagnose bipolar and schizophrenics should diagnose schizophrenics?  That's the worst idea I've heard in a long time.


TheLoadedDog said:
Then times changed, and we'd answer, "well some of our people are autistic, but they are OUR autistic people, and our friends, so you bloody leave them alone."

Also, wow.  That's kind of messed up. OUR autistic people?  They are PEOPLE, why are you labeling them?



I don't think he means it in the way you're thinking. So many people are misdiagnosed with autism by doctors and he just trusts other autistic people more, especially his ex girlfriend who must be very intelligent. 

And I don't think labelling someone with autism is a bad thing so I don't see a problem. What's the problem with being autistic? It's no different from labelling someone who has depression as depressed. Yes we are all people who have our own unique attributes and that's amazing :)
 
Because labels tend to be excuses. "Oh, I can't do that, I'm depressed" "Oh I can't go out anywhere, I'm autistic, I'm socially awkward" It's bullshit. If you don't want to do something, don't, but don't sit there and blame whatever you are diagnosed with. NO ONE should label themselves, in my opinion. Doesn't matter what it is.

And yeah, lots of things are misdiagnosed, so what, that doesn't mean there aren't competent doctors out there that know what they are doing. People get misdiagnosed with cancer too, so they shouldn't go to doctors either? And yes, there are quite a few in the autism community who are very intelligent, that doesn't mean they know everything. It's still just an opinion. For diagnosis, you should go to a DOCTOR.
 
TheRealCallie, I'm going to hold my temper here. You probably don't understand the railway community. It is as tight as hell. The autistic people are indeed "ours". And I am "theirs". Simple as that.

As they say, there is the right way, the wrong way, and the railway. It's tight as hell.
 
TheRealCallie said:
Because labels tend to be excuses.  "Oh, I can't do that, I'm depressed"  "Oh I can't go out anywhere, I'm autistic, I'm socially awkward"  It's bullshit.  If you don't want to do something, don't, but don't sit there and blame whatever you are diagnosed with.  NO ONE should label themselves, in my opinion.  Doesn't matter what it is.  

And yeah, lots of things are misdiagnosed, so what, that doesn't mean there aren't competent doctors out there that know what they are doing.  People get misdiagnosed with cancer too, so they shouldn't go to doctors either?  And yes, there are quite a few in the autism community who are very intelligent, that doesn't mean they know everything.  It's still just an opinion.  For diagnosis, you should go to a DOCTOR.

I don't think it's labels that make the excuses, it's just people who don't want to put in extra effort. It differs from each person. I don't think there's a problem with labeling myself, I never use it as an excuse. I am socially awkward and picking up on social cues just doesn't happen for me but I talk to people as often as I can. Sometimes it goes well and others not so much. From what I've researched with autistic people and from the autistic people I've met they don't let their diagnosis stop them very much, for example some people just need others to start a conversation, my old friend Pete was like that and we'd chat for ages so long as I provided something to talk about. He also volunteers teaching handicapped people how to use computers. He's very shy but does make the effort to go out with the one friend that has stood by him since school. I'm not going to go on about it too much as I'm not an expert.

Your logic with the cancer patients doesn't mirror this situation realistically, autism doesn't kill people. And a diagnosis for something that you can never change and can never actually harm you if you don't let it is just redundant.
 
I have a lot of time for doctors. They saved my life. Brilliant people.

But go and ask for a blood test for Autism. Guess what? They can't do one. Nobody knows what causes it. There are no medical tests for it. Diagnosis is a long and slow series of questions. And most doctors are not trained in that. Even trained psychologists will telll you it is hit and miss..
 
TheLoadedDog said:
I have a lot of time for doctors.  They saved my life.  Brilliant people.

But go and ask for a blood test for Autism.  Guess what?  They can't do one.  Nobody knows what causes it.  There are no medical tests for it.  Diagnosis is a long and slow series of questions.  And most doctors are not trained in that.  Even trained psychologists will telll you it is hit and miss..

Only neurologists here (don't know what it is elsewhere) can diagnose on the spectrum of autism.

My own druthers with these is, specifically, the subjectiveness of the ever changing DSM-V and the fact that neurological disorders, resulting from supposed chemical imbalances in the brain, cannot be quantifiably identified or tested for, according to same neurologist. Accepting things on faith, well....kind of the last person to ask that of ;-)


As a former student of psychology, reading about Freud's experiments on electro-shock therapy and the number of patients who died from various means throughout the years...the whole thing leaves me very uncomfortable. Especially since I'm not the one taking the medication. If it was me, who cares. It's kids, though. 60 years from now, if no ill effects are discovered, this'll stop being a debate for me. Until then, well, it's all pretty scary.

Considering this, in the light that it was recently released in the papers that major pharmaceutical players have been giving handouts to a great number of doctors on a % of medication prescribes...does nothing to alleviate my fears. Without saying we're being misdiagnosed way too often on purpose, let's say some things have been less than truthful.

However, doctors are, by FAR, much more intelligent than I am. Still...doesn't mean they're necessarily right. Like I say, I only have the questions. I'll leave the answers to smarter people than me.

And hey, there's by far not enough beer in this room to worry overly about these things ;-)
 
I thought Freud has been debunked. Good if he has, because the monsters of my own id are not something I want unleashed.

Freud is funny for a railway enthusiast. People dream of trains going into tunnels and it means sex. I dream of sex and it means trains going into tunnels! :)


Anyway, coming up to 0630. Bottle shop (off licence to you Brits, bodega or something to the Yanks?) opens in an hour and a half. Beer can be had!
 

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