losing virginity with an escort?

DarkSelene said:

It's hard for them to have the opportunity to grow on someone, Callie.

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Can't imagine why with their positive outlooks.

TheRealCallie said:

DarkSelene said:

It's hard for them to have the opportunity to grow on someone, Callie.

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Can't imagine why with their positive outlooks.

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I wouldn't talk like this to someone I barely knew, and I don't mope aroun in some depressed state being unsocial. Things don't progress to the point where attitudes, beliefs, worldview etc. even get to matter.

ardour said:

TheRealCallie said:

DarkSelene said:

It's hard for them to have the opportunity to grow on someone, Callie.

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Can't imagine why with their positive outlooks.

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I wouldn't talk like this to someone I barely knew, and I don't mope aroun in some depressed state being unsocial. Things don't progress to the point where attitudes, beliefs, worldview etc. even get to matter.

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Perhaps, but it's hard to believe that the self defeatist attitude and your opinions don't come out in some way.  You could even be self sabotaging without even realizing it.

You discovered the reason why they feel so trapped.

One feels like they need something to feel better about their lives, and they have to feel better about their lives to get it... it's a never ending cycle, and these "not all women" comments won't help much if they've experienced this forever. "Not all" or "some" is a unicorn and one that they haven't found. Wouldn't you be feeling trapped, possibly even hopeless if that was your life?

DarkSelene said:

You discovered the reason why they feel so trapped.

One feels like they need something to feel better about their lives, and  they have to feel better about their lives to get it... it's a never ending cycle, and these "not all women" comments won't help much if they've experienced this forever. "Not all" or "some" is a unicorn and one that they haven't found. Wouldn't you be feeling trapped, possibly even hopeless if that was your life?

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Perhaps I would, but eventually I think I would change honeysuckle, especially if I was getting the same advice over and over again.  But I don't really believe those comments are "unicorns" because those women DO exist.  As I don't know what they do or where or how they go about it or who they go after, no one can know if what they are doing is just simply not working or if maybe the women are just wrong for them.  Maybe their standards are so high that no one can ever manage to meet them.  There are hundreds of this and thats that could possibly be applied to the situation.  In reality, only they really know what they are doing and only they can figure out what to change to make things happen. 
When you have a defeatist attitude, having all but given up and are so negative all the time, it's going to project outward to people, whether you realize it or not, whether you just "know" you don't do that or not.  It happens, people pick up on it and that is more of a turn off than whatever you might look like.

Just let the wife beaters and drug dealers get dates since they surely don't project anything negative.

^^ Precisely my point. Thanks for making it.

TheRealCallie said:

^^ Precisely my point.  Thanks for making it.

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You have no point, just unproven wishful thinking, and condescendence.

Xpendable said:

TheRealCallie said:

^^ Precisely my point.  Thanks for making it.

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You have no point, just unproven wishful thinking, and condescendence.

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Perhaps if you would all STOP worrying so **** much about what you think society wants you to and stop focusing on everything **** thing negative in life and STOP worrying about what everyone else is saying or doing, maybe you could be YOURSELF long enough to give someone a chance without ruining it being it can even begin because you emit negative vibes wherever you go.  You can say you don't do this honeysuckle in real life, but I'm sorry, you preach it all way too much here for you not to....at least that's the way I've seen life work. 

But hey, what do I know, I'm just a dumb *****.  lol 

So here's a question that's kind of on topic with the original topic of the thread.  What about people who have only had sex with ONE person or even people who have only had sex with prostitutes.  Are they losers too or are they only okay since they had the big, wonderful, fabulous, reason for living sex?

When someone's visibly bored after literally a few seconds of conversation, 'growing on them' isn't not an option. The women we CAN get to know gradually aren't single or an appropriate age.

ardour said:

When someone's visibly bored after literally a few seconds of conversation, 'growing on them' isn't not an option. The women we CAN get to know gradually aren't single or an appropriate age.

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I do so wish you wouldn't change what you post so much.  I'm replying like you didn't. 
I'm not saying what you said isn't a possibility, but don't you think it might also be a possibility that what you are seeing (with their tones and mannerisms and whatnot) could be a misinterpretation by you? 
I mean, you've said it yourself, you've dealt with this for so long, you "know" what's going to happen.  It never changes, it's always the same.  So, in theory, you could be making yourself see those things.  Maybe you're not, but it could be a possibility that you aren't seeing or don't want to see.

DarkSelene said:

You discovered the reason why they feel so trapped.

One feels like they need something to feel better about their lives, and  they have to feel better about their lives to get it... it's a never ending cycle, and these "not all women" comments won't help much if they've experienced this forever. "Not all" or "some" is a unicorn and one that they haven't found. Wouldn't you be feeling trapped, possibly even hopeless if that was your life?

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I understand the trapped feeling since I've dealt with it and still do to quite an extent but I still don't feel like it justifies some of the massive extrapolations that seem to get made on this subject. Doesn't matter which gender it's aimed at.

Paraiyar said:

DarkSelene said:

You discovered the reason why they feel so trapped.

One feels like they need something to feel better about their lives, and  they have to feel better about their lives to get it... it's a never ending cycle, and these "not all women" comments won't help much if they've experienced this forever. "Not all" or "some" is a unicorn and one that they haven't found. Wouldn't you be feeling trapped, possibly even hopeless if that was your life?

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I understand the trapped feeling since I've dealt with it and still do to quite an extent but I still don't feel like it justifies some of the massive extrapolations that seem to get made on this subject. Doesn't matter which gender it's aimed at.

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There are generalizations but I don't think they're often incredibly extrapolated, certainly not in this thread.

I think that people have dealt with the guys that complain about this so much that they have this pre-conceived image and they ignore the arguments being made, it happened before, it happens when you put everyone in the same "virgin, bitter guy" suit. I'm not juding this, because I know why it happens and how -- after a while that you have been exposed to arguments you don't agree with, it's tiring to listen and one wants to be combative to make it stop. But just paying attention to some of the arguments made in this thread would make it very easy to not even be sympathetic or compassionate, but just to comprehend their perspective.

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Have to stop having a bad attitude when, observably, the males that are the most attractive to women have bad attitudes. Stop caring about what society thinks to be accepted by society. Have to feel better about their lives to get what will make them feel better about their lives. Have to not care about being lonely and feeling inadequate for 30+ years when everyone in their lives have judged them for being lonely and inadequate (and have not given them a chance because they've been lonely, inadequate)...

It's contradictory and useless, they're trying to explain that.

DarkSelene said:

Have to stop having a bad attitude when, observably, the males that are the most attractive to women have bad attitudes. Stop caring about what society thinks to be accepted by society. Have to feel better about their lives to get what will make them feel better about their lives. Have to not care about being lonely and feeling inadequate for 30+ years when everyone in their lives have judged them for being lonely and inadequate (and have not given them a chance because they've been lonely, inadequate)...

It's contradictory and useless, they're trying to explain that.

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That's pretty much it. At the first point, I wouldn't say "bad attitudes" are attractive as much as flawed attitudes are. No one wants to be with a perpetually happy an optimistic person; not only because is unrealistic but also because is not inherently masculine. You see pessimistic and cynic guys with girlfriends all the time. You see boring guys, apathetic guys, nervous and wimpy guys, rude guys, non-reflexive and so on. All dating decent women and being given second and third chances. You really start to question what are things you lack. Some things contradict others and everyone gives you personal and unreliable tips that you know they never tried themselves but just repeat them without thinking.

That can summed up in the ‘abundance mentality’ : low emotional investment as a means to getting what you want, which is a paradoxical thing when you think about it. This is the attitude you have to have though, regardless of your actual experience or who you are as person. No emotional investment. It's obvious in most of advice received, which boils down to "try, but don't get too attached to outcomes" . Well...what's the point if you can't care about the outcome?

I don't like The Red Pill, or their politics, but regardless of how grotesque it can be, they point out an aspects of gender relations that aren't about to change any time soon; the requirement for men to extinguish the desire for love in order to have it, is one of those things. That an SO is only going to accept you with strict qualifiers, that you should never show vulnerability in a way that would imply a woman has power over your self-esteem and happiness. The kind of idealized loyal relationship you were hoping for, in reality doesn't exist . It seems true enough.

ardour said:

I think you can sum that up in the concept of the ‘abundance mentality’, inasmuch as it implies low emotional investment as a means to getting what you want, which is a paradoxical thing when you think about it.  This is the attitude you have to have, particularly as a male, regardless of your actual experience or who you are as person. It's obvious in the typical advice received which boils down to "try, but don't get too attached to outcomes" . It's that kind of thing  I find most disheartening (what's the point if you can't care about the outcome?)

Optimism helps, as far as it might get you out of your shell and more inclinced to go out and socialize, assuming there are options for that..  I'm not sure it's a particularly attractive trait beyond that.

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I think the ideal balance would be not to get too attached initially.

Some of us need to be invested first to work up the courage.

Hell no. I'm better than that.

Xpendable said:

You really start to question what are things you lack.

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This is it... and it's really hard to understand what you lack when people are false advertising what they really want.


Edit: Sometimes one doesn't know what they want until it hits them in the face.

It's all very well to question what you lack (something I'm still working my way through myself) but I've seen plenty of cases of people here having someone honestly point out to them what they think it is only to have them refuse to even consider it and just argue with the person.

I know in the past people were telling me things I should have listened to and I wouldn't and I've paid the price for it.