Strategem 34: Inflict injury on oneself to win the enemy's trust

...Otherwise known as, 'shooting yourself in the foot.'

OK, I suppose I should give you all some context here. So, there's a girl I've had feelings for in our general social group since roughly November of last year. Before that, she was kind of 'just there', but feelings developed after actually having a proper conversation with her. Now, being the awkward, shy individual I am when it comes to expressing feelings, naturally, I decided to keep it to myself and settle on her friendship. Fast forward to recently. I was invited out by her and another friend of ours one Saturday night. At one point during the night, we all went outside so they could smoke. Myself and girl I like went back in, while the friend stayed outside to talk to some dudes. So, I danced a while with this girl, made sure my body language wasn't suggestive in ANY WAY possible. But, out of nowhere she lunges for a kiss. and we end up kind of close the rest of the night. 

So, the next morning I try to bring it up in conversation. She claims at the time, she doesn't remember much of the night, so at that point, I didn't know if she actually didn't remember it, or if she was being coy and hinting at me to keep my mouth shut. In a whole week of uncertainty, my bookface activity goes through the roof. Conveniently, The Avengers happened. So I had a new meme to mask my issues with(#thankyouthanos). A week later, the girl messages me. Someone had told her what she did. We go back and forth for a while, but the TL;DR is that she truly didn't remember, and she's sorry if I got lead on. She seemed really regretful, saying at one point her drunken hookups had been victimless up until now. I played the whole conversation off as, 'no, it's fine. I'm a big boy. I will get over it.' I can't hate her or disown her friendship. She's done the right thing on her end, and doing so would be extremely petty. 

Over the next week, my shitposting actually gets worse, to the point where I have people at work asking me what my damage is. I issue an apology on my bookface, but I go into a bit of a diatribe, generally discussing 'incels' and the like. In that post, I pose a question: What are we allowed to feel? We can't be angry, or else we risk walking the same path Elliot Rodger walked. We can't be sad, or else we wear out peoples patience, as they get tired of reading our crap (hell, all you get for your waterworks here is Callie telling you to harden the fresia up and get over it). And, as I've learnt this week, people will see through you being abstract about it. So, how does one express themselves safely? Are they even supposed to at all? 

I haven't spoken to her since last week. Near as I can tell, I'm not blocked and unfriended. I'm quite sure I've been unfollowed or at least snoozed. She saw my meme tantrum just like everyone else did. Can't say I blame her for doing so.

I think if you are embracing an ideology that has you questioning whether you're allowed to feel or express your emotions you should probably drop that ideology. Be sad if you want to be sad, be angry, be confused, whatever you're feeling. Maybe stay away from Facebook when you're feeling it though. If you were bitching about her on there and she's able to see it... I know you said you used memes, but those aren't that hard to crack. I'm guessing she knows how to read and follow a logical train of thought. You should find a better way to let off steam.

Get back to talking to her, and see how that goes, sometimes you need a short period to readjust. Doesn't have to mean the end of a friendship

Red_Wedding_Casualty said:

Over the next week, my shitposting actually gets worse, to the point where I have people at work asking me what my damage is. I issue an apology on my bookface, but I go into a bit of a diatribe, generally discussing 'incels' and the like.

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That's definitely a mistake and I would make sure to never do that again. I wouldn't even issue an apology, just delete all posts relating to it and act as if nothing happened. Don't call any more attention to it. You don't want to be talking about stuff like incels and stuff on Facebook, or anywhere that you want to make a good impression. You don't want to have anything that identifies or even associates you with weakness. I used to complain on Facebook about politics, the economy, not wanting to work for the 1%, and things like that, thinking that it was my page so I could say what I wanted, and also thinking that I would be seen as confident for being completely honest with my thoughts, and thinking that it would be OK since the girls I liked were generally left-leaning as well so they'd understand. Then I realized that it was making me look like both an unfun person, and also a weak person, and was probably making a terrible impression. I deleted all that stuff and tried to avoid making posts like that again. The way I see it, Facebook is for sharing pictures of your life, things you actually like, jokes, things you've accomplished, family stuff, vacations, and things like that. You can share personal thoughts and insights, just so long as they are not complaints or rants. Complaining and ranting are things to avoid. You don't want to be seen complaining about the social status/dominance hierarchy, because the people who complain about it aren't the people who are benefiting from it.

Red_Wedding_Casualty said:

In that post, I pose a question: What are we allowed to feel? We can't be angry, or else we risk walking the same path Elliot Rodger walked. We can't be sad, or else we wear out peoples patience, as they get tired of reading our crap. And, as I've learnt this week, people will see through you being abstract about it. So, how does one express themselves safely? Are they even supposed to at all? 

Click to expand...

That's the thing - you're allowed to feel whatever you want. And you're allowed to talk about it too, but that will have consequences depending on what you say. Like you said, you can't talk about it in a sad way too much, because it wears out people's patience. People will pretty much just tell you to stay out of the kitchen if you can't stand the heat. In other words, they will say that if women are treating you like someone they can look down on, then you need to get more status somehow, until they recognize you as someone to treat better than that. And you're right, people will see through you being abstract about it so that won't work either. I wouldn't even post memes about this. How do you express yourself? Unfortunately, I don't think you can, because any way you express yourself about this identifies you as being in the weaker group, the losing side. I don't think it's wise to talk about this on Facebook anyway. Better to save it for a place like this, or with your trusted guy friends, if you think they are the sort you can count on to listen to you when you are feeling sad. I think we should all be able to have a place to vent. Sometimes, it's exactly what you need.

For what it's worth, I think the way she treated you was some bullshit. Unfortunately I can't think of anything to do about it though. The only "correct" answer I can think of would be to say witty stuff to spin it to your advantage somehow and maybe she'd see you in a better light. But I'm not witty so I don't know how I would do it.

Incels are a scourge for a number of reasons. Generally obnxious and in some cases clearly dangerous. They've made it impossible for lonely socially awkward man to complain about social norms without being labelled the next Elliot Rodger/Alek Minassian.

At least this women didn't accuse you of sexual assault for using your male privilege to take advantage of her in a drunken state, not pushing her away with sufficient force etc. Because frankly I would have been worried about that more than the lost friendship.

Red_Wedding_Casualty said:

TL;DR is that she truly didn't remember, and she's sorry if I got lead on. She seemed really regretful, saying at one point her drunken hookups had been victimless up until now.

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I find this to be a big red flag, don't you?

ardour said:

Incels are a scourge for a number of reasons. Generally obnxious and in some cases clearly dangerous. They've made it impossible for lonely socially awkward man to complain about social norms without being labelled the next Elliot Rodger/Alek Minassian.

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You're doing the same thing to incels as the mainstream people do to you.

OK, so there's alot for me to take in here.....

OK, so there's alot for me to take in here....

TheSkaFish said:

Red_Wedding_Casualty said:

Over the next week, my shitposting actually gets worse, to the point where I have people at work asking me what my damage is. I issue an apology on my bookface, but I go into a bit of a diatribe, generally discussing 'incels' and the like.

Click to expand...

That's definitely a mistake and I would make sure to never do that again. I wouldn't even issue an apology, just delete all posts relating to it and act as if nothing happened. Don't call any more attention to it. You don't want to be talking about stuff like incels and stuff on Facebook, or anywhere that you want to make a good impression. You don't want to have anything that identifies or even associates you with weakness. I used to complain on Facebook about politics, the economy, not wanting to work for the 1%, and things like that, thinking that it was my page so I could say what I wanted, and also thinking that I would be seen as confident for being completely honest with my thoughts, and thinking that it would be OK since the girls I liked were generally left-leaning as well so they'd understand. Then I realized that it was making me look like both an unfun person, and also a weak person, and was probably making a terrible impression. I deleted all that stuff and tried to avoid making posts like that again. The way I see it, Facebook is for sharing pictures of your life, things you actually like, jokes, things you've accomplished, family stuff, vacations, and things like that. You can share personal thoughts and insights, just so long as they are not complaints or rants. Complaining and ranting are things to avoid. You don't want to be seen complaining about the social status/dominance hierarchy, because the people who complain about it aren't the people who are benefiting from it.

Click to expand...

For what it's worth, I used to be in the same boat, albeit with a slightly different alignment on the political spectrum. I eventually stopped when I realised my opinions really don't hold any influence in the grander scheme of things, and I was becoming miserable over things I had no control over. For the most part, I use my bookface to 'shitpost' (mostly anime humour and the like). Occasionally, I'll post a deep and meaningful post. I feel that, by doing it this way, the option is open for people to either interact with it, or leave it alone. Where as going directly to a friend feels like I'm forcing them to deal with my honeysuckle. And I really don't like doing that.

TheSkaFish said:

Red_Wedding_Casualty said:

In that post, I pose a question: What are we allowed to feel? We can't be angry, or else we risk walking the same path Elliot Rodger walked. We can't be sad, or else we wear out peoples patience, as they get tired of reading our crap. And, as I've learnt this week, people will see through you being abstract about it. So, how does one express themselves safely? Are they even supposed to at all? 

Click to expand...

That's the thing - you're allowed to feel whatever you want. And you're allowed to talk about it too, but that will have consequences depending on what you say. Like you said, you can't talk about it in a sad way too much, because it wears out people's patience. People will pretty much just tell you to stay out of the kitchen if you can't stand the heat. In other words, they will say that if women are treating you like someone they can look down on, then you need to get more status somehow, until they recognize you as someone to treat better than that. And you're right, people will see through you being abstract about it so that won't work either. I wouldn't even post memes about this. How do you express yourself? Unfortunately, I don't think you can, because any way you express yourself about this identifies you as being in the weaker group, the losing side. I don't think it's wise to talk about this on Facebook anyway. Better to save it for a place like this, or with your trusted guy friends, if you think they are the sort you can count on to listen to you when you are feeling sad. I think we should all be able to have a place to vent. Sometimes, it's exactly what you need.

For what it's worth, I think the way she treated you was some bullshit. Unfortunately I can't think of anything to do about it though. The only "correct" answer I can think of would be to say witty stuff to spin it to your advantage somehow and maybe she'd see you in a better light. But I'm not witty so I don't know how I would do it.

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Since you put it that way, technically I can feel how I want and express it how I choose. But, for someone who's weary of consequences, doing what it want isn't viable if I want to save face. As I mentioned above: I really don't like forcing waterworks on friends. Not when they're probably dealing with honeysuckle heavier than mine. Which really only leaves this place. Or places like it. From what I've seen from this place lately, people with genuinely supportive words seem to get lost to the wayside, and instead we get members who seem to be more interested in posturing. And other places like this seem to creep alittle too far into incel territory for my liking. Which brings me too.....

ardour said:

Incels are a scourge for a number of reasons. Generally obnxious and in some cases clearly dangerous. They've made it impossible for lonely socially awkward man to complain about social norms without being labelled the next Elliot Rodger/Alek Minassian.

At least this women didn't accuse you of sexual assault for using your male privilege to take advantage of her in a drunken state, not pushing her away with sufficient force etc. Because frankly I would have been worried about that more than the lost friendship.

Click to expand...

I completely agree. The way things are going, you don't even have to say anything to be branded as an incel. Case in point: I'll be turning 32 this year. And up to this point, all of my experiences with females have been drunk kisses in nightclubs. Years apart from one another, and all of them can be counted on one hand. Just that alone qualifies me as an incel. Nevermind that just occasionally, the mask of stoicism slip occasionally, like it has just recently. I don't know. Maybe I should consider myself lucky. I've probably had more experience than most incel......

DarkSelene said:

I find this to be a big red flag, don't you?

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It should be. Actually, it's funny you mention that. Not long after I posted that, I got chastised massively by another female friend of mine for a few reasons. One of the things that stuck with me were the friends I hang out with. In her opinion, I'm associating with non-intelligent women who see nothing wrong with hookup culture. And who think that all of my social anxiety can be cured by forcing alcohol down my throat and pushing me in the general direction of strangers.

Having thought about it for a few days, she's..... not wrong.