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Lonely because of your principles
#31
I simply don't agree on several points with you. You have right on the environmental impact of massive flesh consumption, on this I agree. On everything else I disagree, and this is one reason to prove that people with opposite and strong differences can't go along for much.

And the slavery comparison doesn't makes sense, these are humans, while we are talking about animals.
All your anger and your hurt
Doesn't matter in the end
Those days go by
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#32
(12-24-2018, 08:02 PM)Serenia Wrote:
(12-24-2018, 08:37 AM)orbital Wrote: I don't understand.. You are either good looking enough to get to have girlfriends and dates or you are not. LOL to XPE.. If you are not getting sex.. then you UGLY.. its that simple.. no girl wants to screw an ugly man. So you hide behind some stupid principle and pretend you have a life.. but you dont and would give everything to have a girlfriend.. well sorry.. welcome to having a painful life.. get over it.

Ooookkkkaaayyy lmao.  I think you need to get over yourself and understand the question before you answer next time.  Anyway thanks for making me laugh and remember why I choose not to date Smile

This post from Orbital makes me weep for the human race - our world is filled with horrible people who are nasty to others simply because they get a kick out of it. Sad

Well, spoken, Serenia Smile
To quote a popular werewolf film - 'Everyone's cursed.  It's called life'
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#33
(12-25-2018, 07:47 AM)Unix Wrote: I have heard some months ago that plants might have a kind of nervous system that allow them to feel things. if this were true I would be very curious to see the reaction of the vegan community. 

If it was true? Then i imagine they would tell you something like plants have no central nervous system.
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#34
(12-26-2018, 04:34 AM)mgill Wrote: humans also have no need for flesh or any other animal product and in fact the consumption of them is directly connected to many diseases such as cancer, heart disease and diabetes.  

Humans have no NEED for a lot of things, but I bet you take part in things you don't NEED to survive, now don't you?  
You can't get every nutrient you need from a vegan diet.  "flesh" and other animal products provide those vitamins in an easy way. Vegans usually require additional supplements in order to get what they need.  
Look how many veggies are being recalled in the US for listeria and ecoli.  Don't act like vegans are oh so healthy and superior, because they aren't always. There is just as much crap food in a vegan diet as there is in a non vegan diet.


(12-26-2018, 04:34 AM)mgill Wrote:    the question is since humans have no need of flesh, dairy or eggs to thrive and be healthy and it is instead a mere palette preference, how can we justify harming and killing other sentient beings for what amounts to a momentary taste sensation? is taste more important that the entire existence of a non-human animal?

Again, the fact that flesh, dairy and eggs offer nutrients you can't get from a vegan diet alone, suggests that there is a need for it. And you are aware that if no one killed animals, the world would be overrun with them and it would be a much more dangerous place to live.  
"Entire existence of a non-human animal"  Wow, dramatic much?  lol  Pretty sure animals that are on the verge of extinction and even when their numbers are just low are protected.   More things than just shooting an animal can lead to their extinction.  Such as deforestation, which has NOTHING to do with eating meat.  Smile



(12-26-2018, 04:34 AM)mgill Wrote:    even if the consumption of flesh was a factor in our evolution (and even this is now considered not to be correct-instead it was the cooking of food which allowed for increased caloric intake and increased brain function) that does not mean that we should still be doing it today.
Also doesn't mean it shouldn't.  

(12-26-2018, 04:34 AM)mgill Wrote:    Plants have no central nervous system and no sentience.  it does not make any sense biologically for them to do so since the reason animals feel pain is to avoid danger and death while plants are stationary an unable to move to protect themselves.   even if plants did somehow feel, one would still kill far fewer plants by being vegan as far fewer plants are killed by eating them directly rather than filtering their nutrients through someone else's body.

There are SEVERAL studies from well known sources that show that plants CAN feel pain and feel emotions.  

Also, as for the "plants are stationary, so they don't matter" argument.  Might I remind you that there are actually stationary ANIMALS. Barnacles, coral, anemones and sponges are all ANIMALS that are stationary.  But I'm sure you have some explanation as to why that doesn't count.  


You came in here preaching, but yet you only want to look at it from the perspective that YOU choose to believe.  You can't possibly expect the side you wish to believe has all the answers and gives them in a wholly honest way, can you?  In order to have ALL of the details and information, you need to look at BOTH sides.  It's pretty clear that you haven't done that since you don't mention on bad thing about being a vegan and sorry, but you know damn well that a vegan diet is not cure all, end all.  

You mentioned being treated how you would want to be treated.  So you want to be preached at and told everything you choose to do is wrong and you want people to act like they are superior to you?  Smile
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#35
(12-26-2018, 08:10 PM)Minus Wrote:
(12-25-2018, 07:47 AM)Unix Wrote: I have heard some months ago that plants might have a kind of nervous system that allow them to feel things. if this were true I would be very curious to see the reaction of the vegan community. 

If it was true? Then i imagine they would tell you something like plants have no central nervous system.

It's the same argument from pro-life people, even an amoeba or whatever single cell organism will move away from something that could possibly hurt it. It's not the type of pain that we know but you could say that it's the same premise and that this is a surviving skill that just developed how it could in such a simple organism.
Also, we can't actually know if animals are sentient. People really like to throw that in like it's the same as feeling pain but it is not. Possessing the neurological substrates to generate consciousness is not the same as actually being conscious. It's something incredibly difficult to prove, all they can do is say animals have the possibility and certain animals could be but we really won't be able to ever know for sure.
I honestly don't buy vegans arguments to shame other people into it. We have the teeth, we need stupid amounts of protein, meat and its fat has proven to be incredible to our metabolic health.
If the only argument is "we don't want to kill innocent beings" I'll shut up and totally accept because it is kinda hypocritical to be so in love with your pet animals and just go insane on fried chicken like it is nothing. You don't have the blood on your hands, I totally accept that argument.

Still, why do you have to shame people into it? Why do you have to make other people follow you into this lifestyle? Why can't you be friends with people and just eat differently?
Why is it ok for a vegan to have a carnivore pet and give their pet meat? Your cat is not hunting a cow, it's coming in a neat little package from the horrible industry that you seem to fight... so why can other animals eat animals and we can't?
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#36
^^I actually know vegans who feed their pets vegan diets.

Stupid if you ask me. Why should they be forced to go against their nature simply because their owner chooses to believe a certain way. But hey, what do I know, I'm one of those horrible "fake" vegans who cooks meat for her kids because THEY should be able to decide what kind of diet they want to eat. I won't force my beliefs on others, even if it means I have to cook meat for someone else.
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#37
Sorry, I didn't mean to open a can of worms with my comment Sad

I don't have any problems dating non-vegans, nor do I have any problems with meat consumption itself. What makes sense to me is for the world to go back to the way it used to raise livestock and consume meat which I think will benefit our health and the environment (Farm raised, older animals slaughtered for meat, quick kill, using every part of the animal, no separating of calves from mothers, allowing the calves to drink milk before collecting for humans, consuming less meat etc).  Many tribes and communities in the world still live like this and what I saw made me think that it was a very natural way to go about things.

I also know not to judge non-vegans, because I know vegans who support cruel backyard breeding and meat eaters who sacrifice their well being to rescue abused and abandoned animals. I myself used to eat meat and enjoyed it, so very hypocritical of me to judge.

When I meet people, I don't discuss my lifestyle choices. Most guys don't realise I am vegan until the third or fourth date, and unless they ask questions, I don't talk about it. Both my exes loved meat, and we didn't break up over this Smile
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#38
(12-26-2018, 10:07 PM)TheRealCallie Wrote: ^^I actually know vegans who feed their pets vegan diets.  

Stupid if you ask me.  Why should they be forced to go against their nature simply because their owner chooses to believe a certain way.  But hey, what do I know, I'm one of those horrible "fake" vegans who cooks meat for her kids because THEY should be able to decide what kind of diet they want to eat.  I won't force my beliefs on others, even if it means I have to cook meat for someone else.

I agree  Smile  When I was a veggie I tried my last dog on a vegetarian dog food- 'Happy Dog' I think it was called....well Wilf [a lurcher] who was a food addict/maniac and would eat anything put up with it for a couple of days but finally he decided nope I aint having it and looked up at me with the expression 'what is this crap'! So happy dog didn't make a happy dog. Im relaxed now about what other people eat and not bothered. Im still mainly veggie but eat fish now and again and if im at a motorway services and theres only chicken sandwiches i'll have one of those- wont relish it though as having been a past veggie for 20+yrs it does feel like munching a corpse.
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#39
(12-26-2018, 10:07 PM)TheRealCallie Wrote: ^^I actually know vegans who feed their pets vegan diets.

There's an Instagram hashtag for cats on vegan diets and it's sad. Again, biology just goes right out of the window.
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#40
I'm not a vegetarian but I do actually prefer vegetarian burgers to beef ones - at least they're not fatty and greasy. My mum made vegetarian for my sister's girlfriend at Christmas dinner - the turkey was good too, but I also liked the Quorn roast. (there was more than enough).
To quote a popular werewolf film - 'Everyone's cursed.  It's called life'
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