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Incels are a hate group. There is no debate.
#21
Frankly, I don't give a shit about what you are linking me, that is not my point. My point is that what you are posting makes you no better than those members you seem to judge and condemn. Two wrongs don't make a right....
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#22
Honestly, I agree with most of the sentiment here, man.
Don't just become the inverse of them.

They are literally not worth anyone's time, nor will they ever accept anything than what they have already convinced themselves to believe. Let them wallow in their misery; so long as they don't put their BS on others, I'm more than okay with letting their mindset dying out with them and them further sabotaging their own lives. Not my concern.
It's better for every other guy who's not like them, and especially women as well, who never waste time on these kind of people either.

It's no exaggeration to say you are literally arguing with brick walls when it comes to "incels". Just laugh at them and move on.
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#23
(04-19-2019, 03:29 AM)Rodent Wrote:
(04-19-2019, 02:11 AM)DanL53 Wrote: I like that we can't discuss the guts of the article or we would be talking about murder, people who declare killers to be heroes, threats of violent attacks, dehumanization of women...

...and I especially like the hyperbole that is used to respond, instead.

Just like others have complained about my facts, that they have to put the word in quotation marks is sort of said.  Facts, are facts.

Let's just take the PS.  You don't live in a totalitarian state.  If one is a member of the Nazi Party one is a member of a Nazi Party.  If one is an Incel, one is an Incel...a hate group.
I don't buy the, "But there are good people....", crud.  Good people aren't members of hate groups.  And finally, no, the average feminists are not members of hate groups and Holy Cow how out of whack do you have to be to suggest that!?!?

The hyperbole? You brought up the Nazis first. My issue is the difference between a self-imposed label and label that is applied from the outside. And you were the one who accused ardour of wanting to spout hatred and incite violence and put him on the same level as "hate groups". Just because he actually cared about the damn definition of hate speech. But you got another definition. Well, it is a political term and you know what? You can be wrong about a political matter. Factually or morally, that's why politics change and we stopped certain practices. My issue is a matter of principle.

I didn't say the average feminists are members of hate groups. I illustrated your line of thinking about groups that happen to agree on one matter and might work together while still disagreeing on other points - potentially not even being aware of their differences. Isn't that exactly what happened to some of more well-known past feminists of the second wave? They came out as TERFs and fell out of favor because as much as they might have done for feminism, they were not accepting of trans-women, even declaring them as infiltrators and part of the men's rights movement.

(04-19-2019, 02:11 AM)DanL53 Wrote: Oh, and wait....you buy into conspiracy theories that throw doubt on whether a killer was part of a Hate Group?  By 2020 and the trial you will be well past "got it right" and on to the next conspiracy.

Murderers.  People calling murderers heroes.  People calling for violence.

A Hate group.

IMO it is very telling that Incel is so well defended here.  And that posts being eventually taken down for arguing is so called evidence of anything.

Posts started by admitted Incels.  Incels freely given a forum for their hate.  And then when others respond the threads are removed.  And the process starts again?

The only thing that tells me is Incel is protected from the responses it/they deserve.

You're a paranoid lunatic. It's not a fucking conspiracy theory, there were plenty of news articles out there that pointed out that the Facebook post had to be looked at with caution because 4chan hoaxes are not uncommon. Facebook said it believes the post is real and that was it, but hacking was not completely ruled out.

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2018/04...icity.html

Defending principles is not the same as defending a group, let alone murderous individuals within it and those who speak favorably of them. Get that through your head.
This paranoid lunatic as you say, which call me names if it makes your guts churn less at your defense of terrorists I don't care, will offer you the same choices I offered this other Incel defender...

https://www.google.com/search?q=is+Incel...e&ie=UTF-8

Among ALL the known facts about Incel....you are clinging to "hacking was not completely ruled out"?  Interesting.
#24
(04-19-2019, 03:46 AM)Enpatsu No Shakugan Wrote: , nor will they ever accept anything than what they have already convinced themselves to believe. 

The same could be said for other people. You and the OP don't care for it much when people disagree with you.

Yeah, this shit is just as bad, if not worse than the other shit.
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#25
(04-19-2019, 03:51 AM)TheRealCallie Wrote:
(04-19-2019, 03:46 AM)Enpatsu No Shakugan Wrote: , nor will they ever accept anything than what they have already convinced themselves to believe. 

The same could be said for other people. You and the OP don't care for it much when people disagree with you.

Yeah, this shit is just as bad, if not worse than the other shit.

"Don't care for it much" is not the same as blatantly disregarding everything outside one's viewpoint.


Yeah, and just admit it too: you're also the same way. And there's nothing wrong with it. What is the point of forums if everyone just mindlessly agrees with everyone else? If I gave you that impression, then you don't know me very well.

But I digress; in any case, "incels" literally are not worth anyone's time. All they do is stir up animosity and bullshit, everywhere they go.
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#26
Bullshit!  You don't get to decide who is and is not worth someone else's time.   And some would say all you do is stir up animosity and bullshit. 
As for the "don't care much for" part, I'm sorry but you are as bad as they are, refusing to accept anything that doesn't comply with what you believe. You do disregard what others say, I've seen you do it. 

And yes, I don't always agree with people, but I don't insult them, I try to understand what their perspective is, I listen and I offer advice to try to help them.  I actually know what debate means and I do it well when the other party cares to be reasonable.
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#27
(04-19-2019, 02:11 AM)DanL53 Wrote:
(04-19-2019, 01:30 AM)Rodent Wrote: I really like this level of discourse. Here's a news article that says exactly what I think and also declares that it's not up for debate. I guess that's it then, case closed.

I'm not here to defend Incels and that the center of their identity is the lack of sex, I disagree with that notion. I'm more curious about the origin of that mindset and "male entitlement" is not a sufficient explanation for me. If it's even worth mentioning, getting laid is not a men's rights issue.

On the Toronto Van Attack...I looking forward to the trial in 2020 because if I got it right there's nothing linking Minassian to Incels except for that particular Facebook post which has been accepted as fact by many, but not all people who have looked into it. Some doubts about the timing of the post and the lack of other connections. They couldn't tie him to the Incel Reddit or the Incels.me forum.

PS: I would also prefer not to live in a totalitarian state and it's not because I want women and minorities raped and/or killed. Would OP apply his guilt by association and holistic approach to other groups? The average feminists and rad-fems got along pretty well until trans people got in the way.

I like that we can't discuss the guts of the article or we would be talking about murder, people who declare killers to be heroes, threats of violent attacks, dehumanization of women...

...and I especially like the hyperbole that is used to respond, instead.

Just like others have complained about my facts, that they have to put the word in quotation marks is sort of said.  Facts, are facts.

Let's just take the PS.  You don't live in a totalitarian state.  If one is a member of the Nazi Party one is a member of a Nazi Party.  If one is an Incel, one is an Incel...a hate group.
I don't buy the, "But there are good people....", crud.  Good people aren't members of hate groups.  And finally, no, the average feminists are not members of hate groups and Holy Cow how out of whack do you have to be to suggest that!?!?

Oh, and wait....you buy into conspiracy theories that throw doubt on whether a killer was part of a Hate Group?  By 2020 and the trial you will be well past "got it right" and on to the next conspiracy.

Murderers.  People calling murderers heroes.  People calling for violence.

A Hate group.

IMO it is very telling that Incel is so well defended here.  And that posts being eventually taken down for arguing is so called evidence of anything.

Posts started by admitted Incels.  Incels freely given a forum for their hate.  And then when others respond the threads are removed.  And the process starts again?

The only thing that tells me is Incel is protected from the responses it/they deserve.

The threads get shut down like ANY thread would be when the bickering gets bad. It's about keeping it peaceful. And if you want to call them a hate group I'd like to point out that even hate groups, at least in the US, have the freedom to protest just about whatever they want (westboro and funerals come to mind...) So long as they do so PEACEFULLY.
#28
(04-19-2019, 04:00 AM)TheRealCallie Wrote: Bullshit!  You don't get to decide who is and is not worth someone else's time.   And some would say all you do is stir up animosity and bullshit.
As for the "don't care much for" part, I'm sorry but you are as bad as they are, refusing to accept anything that doesn't comply with what you believe. You do disregard what others say, I've seen you do it.

And yes, I don't always agree with people, but I don't insult them, I try to understand what their perspective is, I listen and I offer advice to try to help them.  I actually know what debate means and I do it well when the other party cares to be reasonable.

All the content "incels" offer up is proof enough that they are not worth anyone's time. (Maybe you even forget how many times I saw you mention your disdain of yet another repeat of the same mindless topics again and again from them). Real great addition to the forum, isn't it? All these bitching about women topics, huh? Boy, and they've sure responded in any meaningful or useful way to each and every point you've brought up with your peaceful debates with them, haven't they? Rolleyes

We all have our points in our lives we've come to that we know are true, that we will always argue against. These idiots are more than allowed to post and believe whatever nonsense they care to, but I only get adamantly involved when it comes to trying to spread that plague onto others who might not be asking for it.

Do they care if they ruin someone else's life? Nope. They're so oblivious, they don't even understand how their toxic mindsets can influence others, especially on a forum with so many people so vulnerable, and in that case, you can bet your ass I'll step in.
You can only "debate" as much as the other side allows, and from my experience with these guys, it's a big fat zero; it always just degrades into "NU UH, YOU DON'T KNOW THE HARD LIVES WE LIVE" blah blah bullshit.

And honestly.... I've called you a hypocrite before, and have no qualms doing it again. Nor could I care less if you like me or not, or even understand me. Do your own thing, I'll continue to do mine.
Kthx.
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#29
(04-19-2019, 03:51 AM)TheRealCallie Wrote:
(04-19-2019, 03:46 AM)Enpatsu No Shakugan Wrote: , nor will they ever accept anything than what they have already convinced themselves to believe. 

The same could be said for other people. You and the OP don't care for it much when people disagree with you.

Yeah, this shit is just as bad, if not worse than the other shit.

Wow, "Yeah, this shit is just as bad, if not worse than the other shit."

Sure, although I have never applauded a murderer who killed people because they wouldn't date him?  I have never driven a car into a crowd of people, or been thrilled that it happened?  I have never shot up a yoga studio and people in it, or been happy that it happened?  Despite all that, my disgust at Incel may be worse than Incel.

Let me tell you what I don't care about.  Because, believe it or not I actually know what I do and don't care about...you don't.  You can try to imagine what I care about and that is an infantile way to make yourself feel better, but that is all it is.  

What I don't care about, is pointless arguments that come from illogical views.  I do care about persons who can discuss an issue with reason.  

That should be a clue, I don't care about what you think.
#30
(04-19-2019, 03:50 AM)DanL53 Wrote: This paranoid lunatic as you say, which call me names if it makes your guts churn less at your defense of terrorists I don't care, will offer you the same choices I offered this other Incel defender...

https://www.google.com/search?q=is+Incel...e&ie=UTF-8

Among ALL the known facts about Incel....you are clinging to "hacking was not completely ruled out"?  Interesting.

Stop it. Alek Minassian is not the same as Elliot Rodger who wrote a lengthy manifesto, created multiple monologue videos and had a well developed narcissistic personality disorder that outlined all his beliefs. Bloodthirsty Incels and people like you are free to declare them saints and terrorists respectively but it will not stop me from applying my skepticism on principle.

Also, if you like google searches so much you would know that you can get sufficient search results for almost anything, from climate change denial and flat earth to White Replacement and the Jewish Question.

But I know this is not going anywhere, I understand your mindset from reading other threads. We'll simply have to disagree here. If I am too passive for you and not on your side, then I am accepting evil. So be it.
Sometimes I wake up in the morning and I go...
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