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Naizo

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Leave the chick alone. If she gets thirsty enough she'll come for a sip. And I stress this. When she comes for that sip? Leave the chick alone. Do your own honeysuckle. A woman worth your time won't make you feel like the attention you give in return is a burden upon her life.

Edited to remove a lot of personal honeysuckle, and vulgarity.
 
Naizo said:
Leave the chick alone. If she gets thirsty enough she'll come for a sip. And I stress this. When she comes for that sip? Leave the chick alone. Do your own honeysuckle. A woman worth your time won't make you feel like the attention you give in return is a burden upon her life.

Edited to remove a lot of personal honeysuckle, and vulgarity.

Hiya, Naizo-- 

I dunno what you removed, but what you left us here is absolutely right, IMO.  About 90% of the problems I see in this forum arise because of overthinking and/or second-guessing one's common sense. 

Treat people the way you'd want to be treated, to include leaving them alone if you're not getting a return vibe.  Relationships are simple, natural things that make Life better-- not mysterious fits of insecurity that create turmoil at every turn.  

If you think it's hard to tell whether he/she's interested in you, they probably aren't.   Don't let wishful thinking spur you on to make weird gestures you perceive to be "romantic" in some way.  Filling her car with roses, f'rinstance-- she'll think it's creepy and you'll be mad because you spent all that money to be rejected explicitly because you were too thick to pick up on the subtle signs she sent.

Thought I'd big this thread up a bit because it needs to be said:  "Do your own honeysuckle."  Those who take a shine will make themselves obvious.  Meanwhile, you're living your life and not sitting there, stuck in your big, noisy head.
 
Naizo said:
Tryina call my head big D:
Yeah, I apologize for that.  I was totally out of line.

Lemme make it up to you... maybe I could send you a nice hat.
Size eighty, isn't it?

558e48f5a133d680dbf4f3d70f239d78.jpg
 
Naizo said:
Leave the chick alone. If she gets thirsty enough she'll come for a sip. And I stress this. When she comes for that sip? Leave the chick alone. Do your own honeysuckle. A woman worth your time won't make you feel like the attention you give in return is a burden upon her life.

Edited to remove a lot of personal honeysuckle, and vulgarity.

well. i needed to read this. just changed my entire perspective on my situation. ur right. leave her alone and when she comes back, leave her alone. 
thanks. maybe i'll feel better tomorrow, haha.
 
Looking like I wanted any kind of interaction (whether friends or romantic interests) has never turned out well for me either. Doesn't change the fact that we live in a culture where men are expected to initiate while simultaneously being "outcome indepedent" and not letting themselves become emotionally attached (lest they become unattractive beta males etc.) Adding more mixed messages and admonishments doesn't help. We hear enough of it already. And another thing: if you're male and not in the top 25% of looks wise, no-one's going to show any interest in you, overt or subtle. Doesn't happen.
 
ardour said:
Looking like I wanted any kind of interaction (whether friends or romantic interests) has never turned out well for me either.  Doesn't change the fact that we live in a culture where  men are expected to initiate while simultaneously being "outcome indepedent" and not letting themselves become emotionally attached  (lest they become unattractive beta males etc.) Adding more mixed messages and admonishments doesn't help.  We hear enough of it already. And another thing: if you're male and not in the top 25%  of looks wise,  no-one's going to show any interest in you, overt or subtle. Doesn't happen.

Looks don't mean much-- that's the best thing about being male.  I look like one of the Muppet Monsters, and I dated a LOT.   You really need sizeable social circles so you can meet and network with people.  Otherwise, you're just randomly sampling the population for someone you might hit it off with.
 
harper said:
ardour said:
Looking like I wanted any kind of interaction (whether friends or romantic interests) has never turned out well for me either.  Doesn't change the fact that we live in a culture where  men are expected to initiate while simultaneously being "outcome indepedent" and not letting themselves become emotionally attached  (lest they become unattractive beta males etc.) Adding more mixed messages and admonishments doesn't help.  We hear enough of it already. And another thing: if you're male and not in the top 25%  of looks wise,  no-one's going to show any interest in you, overt or subtle. Doesn't happen.

Looks don't mean much-- that's the best thing about being male.  I look like one of the Muppet Monsters, and I dated a LOT.   You really need sizeable social circles so you can meet and network with people.  Otherwise, you're just randomly sampling the population for someone you might hit it off with.

Got to date during a simpler time you mean.
 
No, you just have to be in the right social landscape.  Makes more sense than bemoaning failure after failure and getting bitter about it.  You want a different result, use a different approach.
 
Why.. just change your social landscape. And looks don't matter only your attitude. Mind blown my man. You could have just said "go out more", at least it's specific. Advice from people who dated decades ago doesn't help. Almost a third of men in their twenties can't date now.
 
I'd say the real problems never change. Men and women are lonely, desperate and damaged,
but a lot of them are also accessible. If you're unable to consider that, fine. I won't bother you
again.

I just wanted to set you straight on the "looks" thing. I know for a fact that it's untrue.
 
RovoR said:
ardour said:
... Almost a third of men in their twenties can't date now...

Where did you learn that?

Observation and understanding the mental state of that generation. And I hate to contribute to any pessimism or negativity but there's some truth to that in my opinion.

Economic, Social, More online dating, more introverts, an in-ability to get a job in their fields (increased later aged retirement and more entry level jobs requiring experience). The competition and pickiness of the hiring process is very real. They feel like everything is in vain and their hope is constantly tested. And don't even get me started on some Gen X'ers and Baby Boomers not realizing what they are doing when they are harsh with their judgement and comparisons. Actually discouraging and berating the younger generations' confidence. Not understanding the huge difference of the world today than it was when they were growing up. Potentially getting stuck in their "back in my day" ego trips and how it does the opposite than it's intention. Not to imply they didn't have it rough and some people don't need a kick in the ass but more times than not it does the opposite depending on the realistic situation that person finds themselves in.

I work retail and I can't tell you how many highly qualified Millennials (now even Gen Z'ers) with degrees I've worked alongside with. It's truth. Not fabrication. Not to mention, social media has become breeding grounds for perfectionism. Everything around everyone young just shows milestones and fantasies being showcased. CONSTANT reminders of what they don't have and only people showing off what they have. It's toxic and it's EXTREMELY discouraging to one's self-esteem and confidence. I most certainly despise social media. It is not healthy.

Pair all of that with feeling like you don't have enough to bring to the table and this overwhelming acknowledgement that you're only wanted if you have your honeysuckle together. I say, you don't want to attract a woman who only wants you for what you've achieved either. It kinda works both ways. I suppose it's fair if you both have obtained those harmonious achievements. Nothing wrong with that. Just no piggy-back riding. :p

Oh and of course, I don't want to think what I've said doesn't apply to many women either. But men have a tendency to let their achievements get to them more than a woman does due to the burdens and brain-washing of society and having to be this alpha male. Old traditions, values, and so forth. Which is why in my humble opinion, the statistic is higher among-st men. I'm sure there's more than that but that's my personal opinion and contribution. :) </end-rambling>
 
First time I heard Gen X'ers getting blamed for something! Gen X is known to be the "lost" generation. Think slackers. Are you young whipper snappers rewriting history? Lol.

So the "statistic" of 1/3 of men in their 20's can't date is less a "statistic" and more just a feeling\opinion?

You do know how Millennials are characterized right? The impression many have may or may not be accurate, but it is widely held. I'll quote a line from an online Time magazine article.

"They’re narcissistic. They’re lazy. They’re coddled. They’re even a bit delusional." -TIME

Like I said, that may or may not be true, but many people believe it's true. What do you think? Any truth to it?
 
ardour said:
... (I think we can assume most of the celibates aren't dating either.) ...

You can if you want, but I'm not going to assume that. Just because your celibate doesn't mean your not dating or that you can't get a date. There was a time when lots of people were celibate before marriage. They still dated alot.

It seems the following statement found in the article linked might explain some of that.
....
"Reasons why likely include a greater preference for video games and for porn," tweeted US psychologist and practicing family doctor Leonard Sax, who was speaking generally about the issue before the survey's release.
....

Seems they don't have any incentive to get out of the house!

Also if you read the article, they stated only 7% of 30somethings went without any nookie in 2018. So I guess just wait till your 30's? Get out of the house and put yourself out there. I do know I'm short and fat and if I go-to the pubs and want to go home with someone, chances are I'm going home with someone. At the very least, I'm going home with some digits and a possible date next weekend!

I don't believe that 20somethings can't get a date. I think it's a bit more complex than that. Everyone else other than the seniors are getting laid more than you guys. Maybe ask them how they do it instead of blaming them cuz the 20somethings can't get laid. It might not be their fault, it might be yours. Either way, get out there and get busy if that's what ya want!
 
Rovor said:
Seems they don't have any incentive to get out of the house!

Wrong way round, games and porn are the lazy coping mechanism not the cause.  I played a lot of games in my 20s but it was in the aftermath of years of teasing, exclusion, contempt from girls/women, severe social anxiety, bad social skills. The choice is ultimately theirs, but let's not pretend it's a happy, fully informed one.
 
I don't know where you grew up, but here in the States the Millennials were a pretty coddled bunch. I know this doesn't apply to all Millennials, but it is a common held view. Reminds me of when I heard about participation trophies. That was strange to me. I couldn't relate to it.

Anyway you look at it, once you hit a certain age, you're responsible for your life. Every generation since ever has blamed the older generations. I don't believe Millennials have had it that bad. My grandparents went thru the depression and some of the stories they would tell were horrible! They had it way worse than I did growing up. I wouldn't trade places with them, but I also wouldn't trade places with the Millennial generation. I think the boomers had a decent ride and are still going, but they had problems too.

I grew up in the Midwest of the US, so that's where my experiences come from. I do believe that at some point, people have to take responsibility for their own lives. That's not trying to minimize or discount anyone's experiences, just a fact of life. Your generation will be the scapegoat for the newer generations soon enough and when that happens, you will be lumped in with the rest of them. Maybe similar to the way Gen X'ers are now getting lumped in with the Boomers. It might not be fair, but life isn't fair and if someone taught you different, they were wrong.

Also, if your under 21, you're not a Millennial. Supposedly...lol, no idea who decides this stuff!
 
I’m 40 and in New Zealand actually. Boomers and some of my generation helped make home ownership an impossible dream for a lot of young people. Can’t blame millennials for that. Million dollar houses in what used to be low income areas 15 years ago? Yes you had it easier – free education (or lower college fees), a stable economy, cheap housing. You got yours alright. But this isn't really the discussion. Divorce, serial monogamy, and dating apps have changed the social dynamics, and the 25 yo still-at-home gamer is the byproduct.
 

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