Have Not Yet Figured Out How To Find That Special Somebody

“Deal with” implies socializing with women as problem for a man to figure out. Everything you’ve said implies men should take on traditional roles. Women are the prize.
There a millions of men complaining about the same things, from incels on the extreme, to forever alones, to average awkward guys who dare to raise a whimper on occasion. Nothing uncommon about it.

How stupid you have to be to not realize bitterness is not the cause, but the consequence.

ardour said:

“Deal with” implies socializing with women as problem for a man to  figure out. Everything you’ve said implies men should take on traditional roles. Women are the prize.
There a millions of men complaining about the same things, from incels on the extreme end, to forever alones, to average awkward guys who dare to raise a whimper on occasion. Nothing uncommon about it.

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Read through it again.

Regarding your inability to deal with women, I'm not talking about men in general or traditions or cultural expectations or what anyone deserves.  I'm talking specifically about you and this particular bug in your personality.  Unless you want to be a living meme archetype, you need to fix it.  If you *do* want such an existence, suck it up and stop casting blame and denial in every direction but your own.

And your "friendly" attempts with Plain Janes are just another conspicuous dodge.  We're talking about actual, potentially procreative relationships-- not friendships.  Like everything else you create, you have to make some sort of effort-- at least, to the extent that your intentions are obvious.  If that's "traditional," so is eating.  It applies to everyone.  This is the way we fulfill these particular needs. 

It honestly sounds like you're afraid to approach women, and you've developed this whole narrative that places the blame on MGTOW nonsense, rather then where it belongs.

...and I apologize for being such a dick about it. I actually do like you, from your posts here on the forum.

I do try to communicate exactly what's on my mind, and people here (you, most recently) tend to re-imagine
the simplest of statements as something totally unrelated to my point.

Lol. We were doing so good 

Xpendable said:

How stupid you have to be to not realize bitterness is not the cause, but the consequence.

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Ask your teacher what  "post hoc ergo propter hoc" means,
and then get back to me.

Xpendable said:

How stupid you have to be to not realize bitterness is not the cause, but the consequence.

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Self-justified bitterness, is still bitterness. Keep that victim mind-frame and see where it leads you. Your actions are your own. Your actions are your consequences. You deciding to not be the change you want, you invite the things you hate, unto yourself.

If you want something, you have to reach for it as hard as you can with everything you've got! Not complain later because it wasn't handed to you easier than you'd hope. Or expected one side to do more than the other.

harper said:

...and I apologize for being such a dick about it.  I actually do like you, from your posts here on the forum.  

I do try to communicate exactly what's on my mind, and people here (you, most recently) tend to re-imagine
the simplest of statements as something totally unrelated to my point.

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You probably mean well enough. I think man up advice is horribly dated and unrealistic. The only socially accepted situations left to approach without getting to know  women on friend terms first are dating apps (on Tinder for weeks:0 matches), maybe bars (plenty of conversations,  no interest…)

Any advice other than figuring out who you truly are and being that and nothing else. Is entirely pointless.

Don't let the world tell you what you should be. Tell the world who you are. Do you just want companionship, or do you want true love? Truth invites truth.

Being something you are not, invites something that is not what they appear to be either.

Xpendable said:

Thanks, Miss. I hope you get what you want too (although you didn't answer my question), but first, we must legitimize other's people point of view. You are doing a better job in this thread than any mod in the 4 years I've been here.

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+1.  You could say that again.

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Siku said:

Any advice other than figuring out who you truly are and being that and nothing else. Is entirely pointless.

Don't let the world tell you what you should be. Tell the world who you are. Do you just want companionship, or do you want true love? Truth invites truth.

Being something you are not, invites something that is not what they appear to be either.

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You keep making posts that made me wish this forum had a "thinking" smiley face, haha.

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But for everybody:

let's chill out, and remember that in all likelihood, we're facing similar things and we're not truly each other's enemy.  Let's show that we don't need to be talked down to like we are children, or policed.

ardour said:

You probably mean well enough. I think man up advice is horribly dated and unrealistic. The only socially accepted situations left to approach without getting to know  women on friend terms first are dating apps (on Tinder for weeks:0 matches), maybe bars (plenty of conversations,  no interest…)

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Dating apps/sites are an entirely separate issue, I think.  I joined one, just to see what kind of people would be on there  in my area.  I have no picture up, my profile is basic as hell.  I still get a lot of messages every time I log in.  I only log in once about ever month or two and every time I do, I get another 5-10 messages from guys.  They are all generic.  Hi....how are you....what do you like....blah blah blah.  There's no personalization, nothing indicating they actually want to know me.  It's just cheap messages that I have no desire to respond to because they couldn't be bothered to put some effort into it.  I did reply to one of the many many messages I got because he did actually put some effort into it, but he didn't like that I wanted to chat for a bit before showing him a picture or even discussing meeting in person.  I want someone to get to know me based on who I am, not what I look like.  Yeah, I know catfishing is all too real and all that and I understand when they bolt, but still, out of probably 100 messages, I get one guy that actually put some effort into a message. 
I don't think it's so much getting to know them as friends, as much as just making sure you aren't an axe murderer or whatever.  At least that's my take on it.  

As far as Tinder goes, I don't care for that one.  Too much of a hook up app for my tastes.  Not that the rest aren't hook up sites too, tinder just seems more so because it's more based on appearances, IMO.

TheRealCallie said:

Dating apps/sites are an entirely separate issue, I think.  I joined one, just to see what kind of people would be on there  in my area.  I have no picture up, my profile is basic as hell.  I still get a lot of messages every time I log in.  I only log in once about ever month or two and every time I do, I get another 5-10 messages from guys.  They are all generic.  Hi....how are you....what do you like....blah blah blah.  There's no personalization, nothing indicating they actually want to know me.  It's just cheap messages that I have no desire to respond to because they couldn't be bothered to put some effort into it.  I did reply to one of the many many messages I got because he did actually put some effort into it, but he didn't like that I wanted to chat for a bit before showing him a picture or even discussing meeting in person.  I want someone to get to know me based on who I am, not what I look like.  Yeah, I know catfishing is all too real and all that and I understand when they bolt, but still, out of probably 100 messages, I get one guy that actually put some effort into a message. 
I don't think it's so much getting to know them as friends, as much as just making sure you aren't an axe murderer or whatever.  At least that's my take on it.  

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You can't expect much personalization  if you're not  putting  information into the profile. I saw this all the time on Tinder. Women who just put up a photo (of them or some random image) like they don't need to say anything, or it's an obnoxious  one-liner like "just ******* love me okay!" And how many messages are you sending?  You're proving our  point about how one sided the expectation is.

ardour said:

TheRealCallie said:

Dating apps/sites are an entirely separate issue, I think.  I joined one, just to see what kind of people would be on there  in my area.  I have no picture up, my profile is basic as hell.  I still get a lot of messages every time I log in.  I only log in once about ever month or two and every time I do, I get another 5-10 messages from guys.  They are all generic.  Hi....how are you....what do you like....blah blah blah.  There's no personalization, nothing indicating they actually want to know me.  It's just cheap messages that I have no desire to respond to because they couldn't be bothered to put some effort into it.  I did reply to one of the many many messages I got because he did actually put some effort into it, but he didn't like that I wanted to chat for a bit before showing him a picture or even discussing meeting in person.  I want someone to get to know me based on who I am, not what I look like.  Yeah, I know catfishing is all too real and all that and I understand when they bolt, but still, out of probably 100 messages, I get one guy that actually put some effort into a message. 
I don't think it's so much getting to know them as friends, as much as just making sure you aren't an axe murderer or whatever.  At least that's my take on it.  

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You can't expect much personalization  if you're not  putting  information into the profile. I saw this all the time on Tinder. Women who just put up a photo like they don't need to say anyting, or it's an obnoxious  one-liner like "just ******* love me okay!" And how many messages are you sending?  You're proving our  point about how one sided the expectation is around this.

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But that's the thing.  I didn't want any attention or messages at all.  That's why my profile was basic and I had no picture up.  I just wanted to look around and see what was in my area on dating sites. 

My point is that just because women get more messages, doesn't mean that men are actually wanting to get to know someone, a lot of them were just about sex.  If and when I actually want to find someone and if....big if, because I hate dating sites...I go about it with dating sites, I will make a big effort with my profile and find a picture that shows my profile or something that shades part of me so they still can't base it entirely on looks. 

Another point would be that men (I can't speak for women, though I have also gotten a couple from women) don't always put a whole lot of effort into it.  You need more than a "hi, how are you" to get interest.  Personalize it, put some effort in. 

I will most likely keep checking the dating site I joined, but with my situation, I will be picky.  Not because I am picky with guys, but because I'm picky about who I allow to be around my children.  Oh and my current profile also says I'm looking for friends only.  That and finding someone around me who doesn't get drunk all the time isn't an easy task. 

I’m not on other apps, but I’d say men generally don’t send long tailored openers because of the low response rate. Imagine writing dozens of those only to get 1 or 2 responses, if that. It would be like a second job. But you weren’t going to get anything like that anyway since there was nothing to work with.

ardour said:

I’m not on other apps, but I’d say men generally don’t send long tailored openers because of the still low response rate. Imagine writing dozens of those only to get 1 or 2 responses if that. It would be like a second job.  But anyway you weren’t going to get anything like that anyway since there was nothing to work with.

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I gotta agree on this one.

I have a hard time finding people that I want to know, but then again, I guess I also have a hard time being someone that others would like to know.

I want to know you very much, Ska. Very much so. You've been nothing but amazing and supportive towards me. It's just, forgive me, I have this calling that until I get it, I can't get close to anyone. I hope you understand.

Okay. And please, I hope no one takes this the wrong way as I feel I need to stray slightly off-topic to de-escalate some toxicity here. Something I now finally see, and I apologize for contributing to it in the past.

Moderators are moderators. They are not Guidance counselors or trained professionals. What expectations are you expecting? I am expecting a Moderator. Someone who only steps in when it is absolutely necessary. Otherwise, it is indeed, bias. Are we really upset at them or just that the views aren't shared or weren't expressed enough?

Basically... You shouldn't be upset at a cop obeying rules for not being able to be a therapist. Nor does it not mean they don't have feelings or agree with you. Part of the job is, you can't crackle otherwise the structure falls apart.

Which is also precisely why I never want such a thing either. I can't guide freely.