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August Campbell

My ultimate dream came true.
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Actually loneliness can be good--at least from what I've learned recently from Buddhism.  Because when a Buddhist monk practices meditation, it works best when he is alone.  Even when a Buddhist monk lives with other monks at a Monastery, they are admonished to not talk to each other. It is part of their discipline.  Because the emphasis is on self-contemplation, self-mastery.

There are even those monks who don't even live with other monks at the monastery but instead go off by themselves into the wilderness to become hermits.  So that life of Hermitage is much more harsh than residing at a monastery. But they make that decision in order to attain Nirvana, the spiritual state beyond human emotions.  Nirvana is the spiritual state beyond human emotions, so that would obviously do away with loneliness.  At that point the loneliness would be eliminated, don't you think?
So let me ask you folks--do you think that a life of Hermitage can be good for you?
 
Being alone doesn't = Loneliness. Huh?

I value my alone time. Most introverts do. Loneliness has to do with not having a human to connect to. So I could be in a party and still feel loneliness. This concept seems to constantly be misunderstood. Yes one can exist alone and not be lonely. I'm in that state most of the time.
 
You can value time alone for sure but most people need some human contact as well. More even than just human contact, most people need to have access to someone else on the same wavelength. You don't often get that in a crowd. People who can be happy in total isolation are unusual.
 
Considering I have knowledge in this area, I would say your fundamental understanding is off. No one is an island unto themselves and this holds especially true for the devout spiritual seekers. The hermit does, yes, spend a large amount of time alone. I've been a solitary individual a great portion of my life. However, they do so under the implicit understanding from everyone that it's sort of, their job. Part of the hermit's job, in being solitary, is also to return to the village so to speak, and bring back what he/she has acquired in their seeking.

The philosopher for example, emerges from isolation with his/her new philosophy. The monk emerges from his/her solitude with knowledge and wisdom concerning matters of the trouble of life, or suffering in general. The Buddha himself spent many years in isolation with those who sought an end to suffering. Their way of seeking an end to suffering was to heap sufferings upon themselves in the hops of becoming immune to them. Eventually the Buddha was by a stream one day and a young woman was passing by on a raft. Some one was playing a stringed instrument and he realized the philosophy of the, 'middle way'. If the string is too taught it will snap. If the string is too loose it won't play. After years of starving himself and living off of bird droppings and seeds and what not, he took the bowl of rice and enjoyed it. He left his fellow seekers who felt he had turned his back on them. He began to teach others what he had learned and eventually his old party came to follow him.

I think you are right, in that, there is something to be learned from loneliness, in that, there are lessons in suffering, some times, if not always. However, even the hermit is revered by the villagers because he/she has the bravery and the courage to do what they do not. And it is part of his/her process as a hermit to return to the village from time to time and bring back the treasures he/she has mined.

Being that I've enjoyed my solitude and had much of it most of my life (more so than most people could tolerate), and I've also been lonely, lately; I would say loneliness is not so much about being alone or being in solitude, it's more of a pain in the absence of some sort of, 'connection'. You can feel lonely even if you have lots of friends, or a wife, or a husband, or much family, etc.. You can also feel very much at peace and even better than you do when amongst people. Being alone can be a great respite from people. However, loneliness and being alone are not the same thing. Perhaps it could be said that the hermit who fails to return to the village from time to time, will too, become lonely. Loneliness implies a sadness, pain, and longing for connection. Being alone is something you can do for decades, while still maintaining connections, however small.

But, to feel cut-off, to feel a lack of connection with people, I think, is something altogether a different matter than that of hermitage and solitude. The hermit spends large amounts of time alone because he/she enjoys it and it is his/her nature to do so. The monk may do it, as it is often a requirement to be alone, to get to know one's self; and, there are also less attachments and hang-ups, therefore less distractions when seeking something. Just like it's hard to watch and enjoy a movie if you have a crying baby; so it is the monk clears out all those sort of distractions to do his/her work.

However, Buddhism does teach on this matter I'm sure, and there are things to be learned from loneliness, as there are lessons in suffering.

I would say, if you feel uncomfortable being alone, and are used to always being in the company of others, than suddenly being thrust into solitude will be difficult and you may feel lonely; but, this difficulty you have is also an opportunity to get to know yourself and grow. If you are used to being alone and now it is not so enjoyable as it once was, perhaps it is time to return to the village and see what's going on and offer what you can, if you can, if anyone finds useful any of the treasures you have acquired. And still yet, other times, perhaps like there are times of drought for the farmer, there are times of lack of connection for the person, and maybe this is when it's time to do a rain dance... and hope for rain, or have faith that the rain will come.
 
August Campbell said:
So let me ask you folks--do you think that a life of Hermitage can be good for you?

The idea behind self-isolation and meditation is like letting muddy water sit till it clears.   If you keep stirring it up, it stays muddy: You have to keep it still for the suspended dirt to fall out.   That's what the monk is trying to achieve in his mind, to avoid stirring up thoughts and emotions so they can slowly fall out and leave his mind 'clear'.

Each individual just has to decide for himself what he chooses to believe is 'good'.

Personally, I think that a clear mind may perhaps be a useful thing, but do not believe it is an inherently valuable thing. 

If you manage to clear your mind, and then just sit on a stump staring at your feet for the rest of your life, what good is that?  I really don't understand how it qualifies as an accomplishment. 




YMMV
 
Ogre said:
If you manage to clear your mind, and then just sit on a stump staring at your feet for the rest of your life, what good is that?  I really don't understand how it qualifies as an accomplishment. 
YMMV
Maybe to you it's not accomplishment because you are thinking on the material world only.  But to an ascetic-hermit, it's an accomplishment, maybe even the ultimate one--because his mind is not on the material world but instead on mastery of emotions.
 
Let me also clarify that while I recommend meditating, you do not have to convert to Buddhism at all.  It is the rule of this Forum to not try to convert or proselytise.  Thats why the Christian was banned.

My point is that you do NOT have to be a Buddhist in order to meditate. Meditation is just a form of discipline that enables you to master your emotions which of course includes loneliness.
 
While we're at it, how about Yoga exercises? That Yoga is another constructive way to master our emotions.
 
Only if Yoga pants are used, and tickets sold... :)

Ironically Buddism reminds me a lot of Kohlinar (pardon the spelling). While rewarding in some respects, well...even Spock had to admit it didn't hold all the answers (well, until they decanonize ST:TMP, but what's sacred nowadays anymore?).

Akin to Tropical's view, I think Solitude can be good. Loneliness....not very much so. Then again, as a great philosopher once stated, "Everybody dies alone". So maybe the point is moot.
 
An interesting thread, to say the least haha

Although I can't relate to your sentiments about Buddhism, as I am completely non-religious, I think there's a good point to be made here. As many other users have said - loneliness can be an effect of being alone, but you don't have to be alone to experience it. Similarly, you can be alone and not be lonely. Personally, the loneliest I've ever felt before was while I was surrounded by other people. Sure, I was alone in the fact that I had no one to talk to, but not nearly as alone as the hermits that you speak of in your post. I also tend to enjoy being alone (as in, completely by myself), despite the loneliness that can occur as a result. 

That being said, I don't think loneliness is always a bad thing. It is something that everyone will experience at some points in their life, and is just another human emotion. It definitely has the potential to be harmful, especially if it becomes excessive and all-consuming, so much so that it interferes with your daily life (as with most other emotions). 

No matter if you're religious or not, meditation seems to be a safe way of coping with such issues. Although I haven't found much success in doing it myself, I think it is something that everyone should give a chance. Going even further than that - I imagine that religion can also help some people with these issues.
 
August Campbell said:
Actually loneliness can be good--at least from what I've learned recently from Buddhism.  Because when a Buddhist monk practices meditation, it works best when he is alone.  Even when a Buddhist monk lives with other monks at a Monastery, they are admonished to not talk to each other. It is part of their discipline.  Because the emphasis is on self-contemplation, self-mastery.

There are even those monks who don't even live with other monks at the monastery but instead go off by themselves into the wilderness to become hermits.  So that life of Hermitage is much more harsh than residing at a monastery. But they make that decision in order to attain Nirvana, the spiritual state beyond human emotions.  Nirvana is the spiritual state beyond human emotions, so that would obviously do away with loneliness.  At that point the loneliness would be eliminated, don't you think?
So let me ask you folks--do you think that a life of Hermitage can be good for you?

Nope.I'm a Gemini and I love the art of communication not that I'm much good at it.I think I would make a terrible hermit if I couldn' t chat to people.Id probably cheat and sneek off every couple of hours down the pub 🥂but what ever floats your boat.In fact I'd annoy myself so much as I do with other people that I would have to paint a face on a rock and waffle away at it but I don't do beards so like Tom Hanks I'd be in trouble anyway.id also miss that lovely Good morning I get off the postman....nope not for me.
 
I (practically) completely isolated myself for almost a year, so I feel that I can successfully answer your question. Isolating yourself in our society can be both con and de-structive. 

Reason for isolation: Whenever I isolated myself willingly in 2015 after I had graduted highschool and worked at a furniture store for about 8 months. I had the intention on becoming educated, learning different skills, and becoming the version of myself that I had envisioned for the past year: a successful music producer/ musician/ business person. 



The Isolation: The first 4 months were all about the same. I had constructed a daily schedule that I stuck by religiously. I'd go outside and practice different skills (riding the unicycle, skateboarding, gymnastics, riding the bike, running, etc.), eat the same meals, which I meal prepped to save time so I could save time to do more productive things than cook ( though I loved cooking, learn 10 vocabulary words a day, etc. You get the point. During this time, I felt better than I ever had in my life. (This could be attributed to the diet change, regularity in working out, achieving my goals, or the fact that I didn't care what ANYONE thought, and I didn't have to care.)  After the first 4 months, I gradually became depressed. I never drank before this point, but I decided to try it to numb the pain of being alone. A week after my first sip, I would wake up and pour a shot of gin in my coffee and have a shot about every hour or two, give or take. I never was inebriated (I still ran my one-person business and worked out everyday,) but I was slowly declining in mental and physical health, though I was no longer depressed with the alcohol in my system. I kept this up until I woke up having a cardiac arrhythmia. I dropped the bottle without any hesitation. After this, the depression came back and stayed for almost a year and a half, and social anxiety started about 6-7 months in and is still present without cessation. I gave it up and got a regular job eventually, and my life got much worse due to my inability to relate to coworkers. 
Before I isolated myself, I was popular, socialized easily, and never had any symptoms of depression or anxiety.

Conclusion: Isolating yourself greatly increases your ability to learn and become at peace with your self, but socialization should be maintained somehow to inhibit impairment to social skills, which eventually leads to self confidence issues. 

Would I do it again? Yes, but I would want to keep in touch with reality and interact/ be around people for at least an hour a day on average. 

What I've ultimately learned? America is full of mean people who have xenophobia and self confidence issues. My unique carefree personality and overwhelming knowledge bank that I acquired during my isolation has caused me to be perceived as "unapproachable" and odd.

Be careful if you go down this path. its been almost 4 years since I was isolated and I still struggle with social anxiety caused by long term isolation.
 
Richard_39 said:
Only if Yoga pants are used, and tickets sold... :)

Ironically Buddism reminds me a lot of Kohlinar (pardon the spelling). While rewarding in some respects, well...even Spock had to admit it didn't hold all the answers (well, until they decanonize ST:TMP, but what's sacred nowadays anymore?).

Akin to Tropical's view, I think Solitude can be good. Loneliness....not very much so. Then again, as a great philosopher once stated, "Everybody dies alone". So maybe the point is moot.
Point well-taken about Spock's Vulcan Kolinahr. Glad you brought it up, Richard. Most certainly, as you said, a parallel can be drawn between Zen Buddhism and the Kolinahr-- the purging of all emotions, even the vestigial.
Spock had it much harder because he had his human-half to cope with. And that was the characterization that made the audience empathize with him.
In Buddhism, the harsh disciplinary attempts to purge emotions can be seen where the Buddhist ascetic dressed only in a loincloth ventures out in the cold of winter to meditate under an icy-cold waterfall.
So, Richard, it seems that you have some background in Buddhism. Do you meditate?
 
TropicalStarfish said:
Considering I have knowledge in this area, I would say your fundamental understanding is off.  No one is an island unto themselves and this holds especially true for the devout spiritual seekers.  The hermit does, yes, spend a large amount of time alone.  I've been a solitary individual a great portion of my life.  However, they do so under the implicit understanding from everyone that it's sort of, their job.  Part of the hermit's job, in being solitary, is also to return to the village so to speak, and bring back what he/she has acquired in their seeking.

The philosopher for example, emerges from isolation with his/her new philosophy.  The monk emerges from his/her solitude with knowledge and wisdom concerning matters of the trouble of life, or suffering in general.  The Buddha himself spent many years in isolation with those who sought an end to suffering.  Their way of seeking an end to suffering was to heap sufferings upon themselves in the hops of becoming immune to them.  Eventually the Buddha was by a stream one day and a young woman was passing by on a raft.  Some one was playing a stringed instrument and he realized the philosophy of the, 'middle way'.  If the string is too taught it will snap.  If the string is too loose it won't play.  After years of starving himself and living off of bird droppings and seeds and what not, he took the bowl of rice and enjoyed it.  He left his fellow seekers who felt he had turned his back on them.  He began to teach others what he had learned and eventually his old party came to follow him.

I think you are right, in that, there is something to be learned from loneliness, in that, there are lessons in suffering, some times, if not always.  However, even the hermit is revered by the villagers because he/she has the bravery and the courage to do what they do not.  And it is part of his/her process as a hermit to return to the village from time to time and bring back the treasures he/she has mined.

Being that I've enjoyed my solitude and had much of it most of my life (more so than most people could tolerate), and I've also been lonely, lately; I would say loneliness is not so much about being alone or being in solitude, it's more of a pain in the absence of some sort of, 'connection'.  You can feel lonely even if you have lots of friends, or a wife, or a husband, or much family, etc..  You can also feel very much at peace and even better than you do when amongst people.  Being alone can be a great respite from people.  However, loneliness and being alone are not the same thing.  Perhaps it could be said that the hermit who fails to return to the village from time to time, will too, become lonely.  Loneliness implies a sadness, pain, and longing for connection.  Being alone is something you can do for decades, while still maintaining connections, however small.

But, to feel cut-off, to feel a lack of connection with people, I think, is something altogether a different matter than that of hermitage and solitude.  The hermit spends large amounts of time alone because he/she enjoys it and it is his/her nature to do so.  The monk may do it, as it is often a requirement to be alone, to get to know one's self; and, there are also less attachments and hang-ups, therefore less distractions when seeking something.  Just like it's hard to watch and enjoy a movie if you have a crying baby; so it is the monk clears out all those sort of distractions to do his/her work.

However, Buddhism does teach on this matter I'm sure, and there are things to be learned from loneliness, as there are lessons in suffering.  

I would say, if you feel uncomfortable being alone, and are used to always being in the company of others, than suddenly being thrust into solitude will be difficult and you may feel lonely; but, this difficulty you have is also an opportunity to get to know yourself and grow.  If you are used to being alone and now it is not so enjoyable as it once was, perhaps it is time to return to the village and see what's going on and offer what you can, if you can, if anyone finds useful any of the treasures you have acquired.  And still yet, other times, perhaps like there are times of drought for the farmer, there are times of lack of connection for the person, and maybe this is when it's time to do a rain dance...  and hope for rain, or have faith that the rain will come.

Starfish I don't know what you mean by your statement that one can be lonely even when he has lots of friends?  On the other hand I of course understand that one can feel lonely when he is among many people when they are Strangers.  Then in that case you would feel lonely even when mingling with other people. But your statement said that among even your Friends that you can feel lonely.  You seem off-base about that statement or at least contradictory.
 
August Campbell said:
Starfish I don't know what you mean by your statement that one can be lonely even when he has lots of friends?  On the other hand I of course understand that one can feel lonely when he is among many people when they are Strangers.  Then in that case you would feel lonely even when mingling with other people. But your statement said that among even your Friends that you can feel lonely.  You seem off-base about that statement or at least contradictory.

You haven't been listening very well during your time on the forum, have you?  Many people have said and explained that.  Look around.  Reread.
 
I definitely have pursed a life alone. And I am not lonely. The problem is... eventually comes a point where you must rely on other people. You get sick, you need help, you just want to talk to someone. And if you haven't laid the foundation by making friends and connecting with others you will be up a creek.

Buddhism is for me a revelation that I think really helped in the past. It set my thinking right in a lot of ways. But in the end if sort of allowed me to indulge my tendencies to be alone and I have done it too well.
 
August Campbell said:
TropicalStarfish said:
Considering I have knowledge in this area, I would say your fundamental understanding is off.  No one is an island unto themselves and this holds especially true for the devout spiritual seekers.  The hermit does, yes, spend a large amount of time alone.  I've been a solitary individual a great portion of my life.  However, they do so under the implicit understanding from everyone that it's sort of, their job.  Part of the hermit's job, in being solitary, is also to return to the village so to speak, and bring back what he/she has acquired in their seeking.

The philosopher for example, emerges from isolation with his/her new philosophy.  The monk emerges from his/her solitude with knowledge and wisdom concerning matters of the trouble of life, or suffering in general.  The Buddha himself spent many years in isolation with those who sought an end to suffering.  Their way of seeking an end to suffering was to heap sufferings upon themselves in the hops of becoming immune to them.  Eventually the Buddha was by a stream one day and a young woman was passing by on a raft.  Some one was playing a stringed instrument and he realized the philosophy of the, 'middle way'.  If the string is too taught it will snap.  If the string is too loose it won't play.  After years of starving himself and living off of bird droppings and seeds and what not, he took the bowl of rice and enjoyed it.  He left his fellow seekers who felt he had turned his back on them.  He began to teach others what he had learned and eventually his old party came to follow him.

I think you are right, in that, there is something to be learned from loneliness, in that, there are lessons in suffering, some times, if not always.  However, even the hermit is revered by the villagers because he/she has the bravery and the courage to do what they do not.  And it is part of his/her process as a hermit to return to the village from time to time and bring back the treasures he/she has mined.

Being that I've enjoyed my solitude and had much of it most of my life (more so than most people could tolerate), and I've also been lonely, lately; I would say loneliness is not so much about being alone or being in solitude, it's more of a pain in the absence of some sort of, 'connection'.  You can feel lonely even if you have lots of friends, or a wife, or a husband, or much family, etc..  You can also feel very much at peace and even better than you do when amongst people.  Being alone can be a great respite from people.  However, loneliness and being alone are not the same thing.  Perhaps it could be said that the hermit who fails to return to the village from time to time, will too, become lonely.  Loneliness implies a sadness, pain, and longing for connection.  Being alone is something you can do for decades, while still maintaining connections, however small.

But, to feel cut-off, to feel a lack of connection with people, I think, is something altogether a different matter than that of hermitage and solitude.  The hermit spends large amounts of time alone because he/she enjoys it and it is his/her nature to do so.  The monk may do it, as it is often a requirement to be alone, to get to know one's self; and, there are also less attachments and hang-ups, therefore less distractions when seeking something.  Just like it's hard to watch and enjoy a movie if you have a crying baby; so it is the monk clears out all those sort of distractions to do his/her work.

However, Buddhism does teach on this matter I'm sure, and there are things to be learned from loneliness, as there are lessons in suffering.  

I would say, if you feel uncomfortable being alone, and are used to always being in the company of others, than suddenly being thrust into solitude will be difficult and you may feel lonely; but, this difficulty you have is also an opportunity to get to know yourself and grow.  If you are used to being alone and now it is not so enjoyable as it once was, perhaps it is time to return to the village and see what's going on and offer what you can, if you can, if anyone finds useful any of the treasures you have acquired.  And still yet, other times, perhaps like there are times of drought for the farmer, there are times of lack of connection for the person, and maybe this is when it's time to do a rain dance...  and hope for rain, or have faith that the rain will come.

Starfish I don't know what you mean by your statement that one can be lonely even when he has lots of friends?  On the other hand I of course understand that one can feel lonely when he is among many people when they are Strangers.  Then in that case you would feel lonely even when mingling with other people. But your statement said that among even your Friends that you can feel lonely.  You seem off-base about that statement or at least contradictory.

Nothing is off-base, I assure, you. Except me, I'm a civilian :p. Yes, you can be lonely amongst close family and close friends. I'm not sure I can speak from that particular experience; but, I'm pretty sure it's true.. I would recommend watching the film, "Lost in Translation." The entire plot of the film deals with this notion a fair bit, if not, entirely, and on top of it, it's a delightful film; to me, anyway... :) I'm sure there are many more examples; but, that's the first that comes to mind...
 

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