You can dance you can sing like a puppet on a string...

Lol, pretty sure I didn't give specific advice, so my answer is not one size fits all because you have to figure out for yourself which methods will work for you. If you aren't happy, you need to change several aspects of your life. Yes, that is one size fits all because it's true for everyone.

As for me being ignorant, considering I've done, I wouldn't say I'm the ignorant one here. Also, never said your issues were bullshit, I was referring to your attitude about pretty much everything in life.

Oops, did I add another reply? Sorry, still a public forum. And even if you don't care for what I write, someone else might, so I will continue posting, if I feel like I have something to add. Feel free to change my mind on what I think about you. That offer is open to everyone. In fact, there are several here who I thought may never get away from their own attitudes and they've actually been starting to prove me wrong. So go ahead. Show me you aren't a judgmental, egotistical, "no one has it worse than me, no one can understand" type of guy.

xephier102 said:

kaetic said:

Nurture is taught, instilled from a young age sure... But learned behavior. Meaning it can be changed, you can learn another way of doing things. And if your nature is the opposite... Then that only helps things along.

Fine, everyone has pet peeves. You don't like it when you think people aren't listening to your words. I don't like it when people react with insults. (And I never said you were an *******... I prefer not to be banned )

And because I didn't say it before. I am sorry for what you went through as a child. No one deserves that.

I do want to ask though, you mentioned still being around your mother... I got the hell out as soon as I could, and stayed away as much as possible. Why would you choose to stay around someone who caused you so much pain? I had a nervous breakdown and nearly ended up killing myself before I moved out. Have you considered that getting some distance may help you with your anxiety at the very least? I understand money being an issue.

Click to expand...

I'm not saying that change isn't possible, only that, well, saying "it isn't easy" is a drastic understatement in my particular case. I kinda understand why people would act like I'm trying to stand out, like I'm somehow special and no one else has had it worse. I mean, I grew into the millennial age (unfortunately); the age in which smartphones, social media, and really, the internet in general, went mainstream.. And with that, the ability for every Tom, Dick, and harry to easily rant to the world about every little thing that went wrong in their lives. It's easy enough to dehumanize people over the internet, with such a flood of the same honeysuckle; for the people with the real problems to get scoffed at and ignored because they're not as bad as the midget woman with club foot, that got stuffed in her closet and raped for 10-15 years by her parents, then after all that, still managed to become president of the book club..

One thing I will tell you though, about probably 98+% of the people that went through horrid honeysuckle in their lives, and still managed to rise above it and get past it. I would bet my left nut that they had people to back them. Not /insert random internet text people here! but someone in their life that believed in them, that supported them, that stayed with them.. Or maybe they were born with different genes, and therefore were not really the overly emotional types. I really must say, one of the cruelest things about my existence is that my emotions are so damned intense.. I have no issues in terms of sexual identity, but in terms of emotion; I often feel as if I was an overly sensitive female born into the body of a somewhat objectively unattractive man.. That's where a part of my anti-feminist stuff comes from. I'm jealous of all that women get, all the support that they get in our society, and from other females, and how they're treated like emotional beings. The general treatment of men in society is "you're a man.. Man up and get over it" Someone see's a man crying and instantly assumes someone died.. Cuz men aren't supposed to have emotions (the way people act..)..

I've come to the conclusion that I can't possibly have any form of meaningful connection with anyone until I fix myself, but the part of me that's broken is my heart... I can't fix that alone.. Classic catch 22..

Click to expand...

I completely understand about change being hard. I'm not sure why you think it's harder for you... But maybe it is, still doesn't mean it's not worth the effort.(like Callie was trying to say...) I'm not sure how else you imagine gaining a friend who would believe in you.
I'm not talking about changing everything about yourself, just working on your anger a bit as that's the most likely thing (for anyone) to stand in the way of a developing relationship. (Be it friend or other) you don't have to be perfect, no one else is... Just try.

I'm hardly a... success story? And I can't speak for anyone else, but yeah I had people that said nice things here and there... Even some of the people that ultimately ended up treating me like crap said kind words now and again, that stuck with me. I wouldn't call that support, it was more likely flattery to get what they wanted... But stuck with me nonetheless. What helped me the most, was realizing for myself that I was worth knowing. Ironically this "epiphany" came when I felt incredibly isolated. Weird how that works sometimes. 

I don't think there's anything to gain by comparing your situation to others... Like some kind of weird... Victim competition? Our value is not decided by what others do to us.

I'm sorry you had to grow up feeling like you couldn't express your emotions. I imagine that was caused more by your family life than by the rest of the world, but I'm familiar with the bullshit concept that women are emotional and men are more logic driven. I think I've heard it a few different ways but it all amounted to the same sexist statement, usually used to explain why women shouldn't make decisions or something stupid like that... But yeah that mindset hurts men too.

Despite whatever you have heard in the media, I
 wouldn't exactly call women supportive of each other. You dodged a bullet on that one, trust me.

kaetic said:

xephier102 said:

kaetic said:

Nurture is taught, instilled from a young age sure... But learned behavior. Meaning it can be changed, you can learn another way of doing things. And if your nature is the opposite... Then that only helps things along.

Fine, everyone has pet peeves. You don't like it when you think people aren't listening to your words. I don't like it when people react with insults. (And I never said you were an *******... I prefer not to be banned )

And because I didn't say it before. I am sorry for what you went through as a child. No one deserves that.

I do want to ask though, you mentioned still being around your mother... I got the hell out as soon as I could, and stayed away as much as possible. Why would you choose to stay around someone who caused you so much pain? I had a nervous breakdown and nearly ended up killing myself before I moved out. Have you considered that getting some distance may help you with your anxiety at the very least? I understand money being an issue.

Click to expand...

I'm not saying that change isn't possible, only that, well, saying "it isn't easy" is a drastic understatement in my particular case. I kinda understand why people would act like I'm trying to stand out, like I'm somehow special and no one else has had it worse. I mean, I grew into the millennial age (unfortunately); the age in which smartphones, social media, and really, the internet in general, went mainstream.. And with that, the ability for every Tom, Dick, and harry to easily rant to the world about every little thing that went wrong in their lives. It's easy enough to dehumanize people over the internet, with such a flood of the same honeysuckle; for the people with the real problems to get scoffed at and ignored because they're not as bad as the midget woman with club foot, that got stuffed in her closet and raped for 10-15 years by her parents, then after all that, still managed to become president of the book club..

One thing I will tell you though, about probably 98+% of the people that went through horrid honeysuckle in their lives, and still managed to rise above it and get past it. I would bet my left nut that they had people to back them. Not /insert random internet text people here! but someone in their life that believed in them, that supported them, that stayed with them.. Or maybe they were born with different genes, and therefore were not really the overly emotional types. I really must say, one of the cruelest things about my existence is that my emotions are so damned intense.. I have no issues in terms of sexual identity, but in terms of emotion; I often feel as if I was an overly sensitive female born into the body of a somewhat objectively unattractive man.. That's where a part of my anti-feminist stuff comes from. I'm jealous of all that women get, all the support that they get in our society, and from other females, and how they're treated like emotional beings. The general treatment of men in society is "you're a man.. Man up and get over it" Someone see's a man crying and instantly assumes someone died.. Cuz men aren't supposed to have emotions (the way people act..)..

I've come to the conclusion that I can't possibly have any form of meaningful connection with anyone until I fix myself, but the part of me that's broken is my heart... I can't fix that alone.. Classic catch 22..

Click to expand...

I completely understand about change being hard. I'm not sure why you think it's harder for you... But maybe it is, still doesn't mean it's not worth the effort.(like Callie was trying to say...) I'm not sure how else you imagine gaining a friend who would believe in you.
I'm not talking about changing everything about yourself, just working on your anger a bit as that's the most likely thing (for anyone) to stand in the way of a developing relationship. (Be it friend or other) you don't have to be perfect, no one else is... Just try.

I'm hardly a... success story? And I can't speak for anyone else, but yeah I had people that said nice things here and there... Even some of the people that ultimately ended up treating me like crap said kind words now and again, that stuck with me. I wouldn't call that support, it was more likely flattery to get what they wanted... But stuck with me nonetheless. What helped me the most, was realizing for myself that I was worth knowing. Ironically this "epiphany" came when I felt incredibly isolated. Weird how that works sometimes. 

I don't think there's anything to gain by comparing your situation to others... Like some kind of weird... Victim competition? Our value is not decided by what others do to us.

I'm sorry you had to grow up feeling like you couldn't express your emotions. I imagine that was caused more by your family life than by the rest of the world, but I'm familiar with the bullshit concept that women are emotional and men are more logic driven. I think I've heard it a few different ways but it all amounted to the same sexist statement, usually used to explain why women shouldn't make decisions or something stupid like that... But yeah that mindset hurts men too.

Despite whatever you have heard in the media, I
 wouldn't exactly call women supportive of each other. You dodged a bullet on that one, trust me.

Click to expand...

I'm just not sure at what point I implied that I wasn't trying.. I mean, I'm not exactly doing the going outside thing, or the eating in a way that probably won't soon kill me, thing, but I get up outta bed every morning and have my breakfast of chocolate mini donuts and Pepsi. And all in all, I manage to make it through the day without killing anyone in real life. So I mean.. I could be doing worse.. 
As for the women being supportive of each other thing; seen it in the media, in real life .etc. it's not true in every single situation, but in general, it's a hell of a lot more true than for men. 
Sides, don't knock media in terms of accuracy. People often imitate those that they see in the media. Hell, I grew up watching Randy on home improvement, and ended up being a sarcastic jackass .

Xephier102, you say: "I've come to the conclusion that I can't possibly have any form of meaningful connection with anyone until I fix myself, but the part of me that's broken is my heart... I can't fix that alone."

This statement is perhaps the most valid belief that you've claimed thus far.  Setting aside the arguable political beliefs you hold for your country's society, you obviously have a self identity problem that causes anger, resentment, and frustration with just about everything and everyone around you.  Perhaps we can agree that you have a better chance of changing yourself and improving your life than changing the messed up world around you. To that goal, I'll respond once more on the religious aspect which you seem to despise and dismiss.

Whether you acknowledge it or not, our religious beliefs do affect our lives, self identity, perceived worth, and purpose in life.  Let me briefly explain the Atheist's view of life versus a Christian's.

The Atheist believes (or should) that we're all products of evolution - just accidents of nature, with humans being mere animals and life having no meaning.  We get our temporary sense of identity by how we look, how we feel, what we have, what we do, and what others think about us.  And for those struggling with life's problems, there's no objective right or wrong or logical answers to follow - no true path for success in life.  And of course, when our short time on this earth ends, there's nothing afterwards to look forward to.  It's all over - a meaningless life of struggles, problems, and disappointments with a sad, finite ending.

The Christian believes (or should) that we're all special creatures, made in the image of God.  We're created and born with equal intrinsic value, not dependent on our money, career, looks, or possessions.  We also recognize our purpose in life - to know and love God and to love and care for others.  We see that the world is messed up, but have a guidebook of truth on how to live in it and a loving church family to help us do so.  And despite the challenges, deficiencies, and problems we face here in this temporary earthly life, the eternal life that lies ahead gives us encouragement, hope, and strength.

Personally, I don't understand why anyone would willingly choose the first depressing belief system over the second positive one.  Many obviously do, but it's an irrational choice of the heart, not a correct determination of evidence since the scientific evidence for a supernatural creator is overwhelming, as is the historical, archaeological, scientific, prophetic, and textual authority of the Judeo-Christian Bible.

If you want to fix your heart and improve your life and relationships, I'd suggest that you not be so quick and callus to dismiss religion as a relevant factor.  Christianity has positively changed more lives in human history than anything else.  There must be a reason for that.  You, like everyone else in the world, have a choice with your beliefs, and I assure you that they certainly affect the course and outcome of your life.           

Sir Joseph said:

Xephier102, you say: "I've come to the conclusion that I can't possibly have any form of meaningful connection with anyone until I fix myself, but the part of me that's broken is my heart... I can't fix that alone."

This statement is perhaps the most valid belief that you've claimed thus far.  Setting aside the arguable political beliefs you hold for your country's society, you obviously have a self identity problem that causes anger, resentment, and frustration with just about everything and everyone around you.  Perhaps we can agree that you have a better chance of changing yourself and improving your life than changing the messed up world around you. To that goal, I'll respond once more on the religious aspect which you seem to despise and dismiss.

Whether you acknowledge it or not, our religious beliefs do affect our lives, self identity, perceived worth, and purpose in life.  Let me briefly explain the Atheist's view of life versus a Christian's.

The Atheist believes (or should) that we're all products of evolution - just accidents of nature, with humans being mere animals and life having no meaning.  We get our temporary sense of identity by how we look, how we feel, what we have, what we do, and what others think about us.  And for those struggling with life's problems, there's no objective right or wrong or logical answers to follow - no true path for success in life.  And of course, when our short time on this earth ends, there's nothing afterwards to look forward to.  It's all over - a meaningless life of struggles, problems, and disappointments with a sad, finite ending.

The Christian believes (or should) that we're all special creatures, made in the image of God.  We're created and born with equal intrinsic value, not dependent on our money, career, looks, or possessions.  We also recognize our purpose in life - to know and love God and to love and care for others.  We see that the world is messed up, but have a guidebook of truth on how to live in it and a loving church family to help us do so.  And despite the challenges, deficiencies, and problems we face here in this temporary earthly life, the eternal life that lies ahead gives us encouragement, hope, and strength.

Personally, I don't understand why anyone would willingly choose the first depressing belief system over the second positive one.  Many obviously do, but it's an irrational choice of the heart, not a correct determination of evidence since the scientific evidence for a supernatural creator is overwhelming, as is the historical, archaeological, scientific, prophetic, and textual authority of the Judeo-Christian Bible.

If you want to fix your heart and improve your life and relationships, I'd suggest that you not be so quick and callus to dismiss religion as a relevant factor.  Christianity has positively changed more lives in human history than anything else.  There must be a reason for that.  You, like everyone else in the world, have a choice with your beliefs, and I assure you that they certainly affect the course and outcome of your life.           

Click to expand...

Could look at it other ways too. Religion believes the end of my dick was rightfully cut off at birth cuz god hates foreskin, or someshit(despite that he/she/it made us with it..). Any valid science believes in awareness over senseless genital mutilation being performed on helpless babies. 

I prefer the one that actually makes sense, not the one that people have been making up along the way, and bending it's rules to what suits them. I know I said I wasn't gonna argue it, but since you keep bringing it up, here goes.

Think about it, for one, one of the most famous things in the Bible, ten commandments. Do you really think that an all powerful god that transcends humanity in both power and physical being, gives a flying crap if we steal eachothers material belongings, or cares who we fresia? The hate and censorship and shame that revolves around sex, is all a very human concept. I mean, there's a million things in the bibles alone that I could argue, but just don't feed me this bullshit "plan" thing... Cuz our father who art.. wherever the fresia he is; ain't here, and ain't shown any real sign of existence in a millennia.. I've got more proof that my actual father exists, and he bailed at my birth, but at least I can put a face to him.. 
And put it this way, if he does exist, he knows my suffering, and clearly doesn't care any more than anyone else on this planet, so why should I do anything, but to return the favor?

I'll give you one thing though, belief is required in order to obtain happiness. It doesn't have to be religion though. For many it's this dog and pony show that we call politics. For others, religion. The belief that kept me going as long as I did, was my belief in people. But even that's pretty much gone.. but following something so entirely illogical, isn't going to lead me to happiness. I'm beyond a state of cognitive dissonance. I see it all clearly now.. 

Funny, I heard a phrase on TV earlier that's relevant to this; a question really "what's more important, your happiness, or your sanity?". It makes me wonder if the mainstream definition of sanity isn't entirely backwards..

Just as an example, not a real statistic, but close enough.
You've got half of society believing there's a magic man in the sky somewhat akin to Santa clause. The other half believing (sternly) in a political system that screws the bulk of them in an effort to overflow the pockets of the rich. And yet most of them aren't happy, not really.. consider childhood Innocence (picture it as a visual). We live in a society that forces us to 'grow up', to act mature; that essentially and on a wholesale level, takes away our childhood Innocence. We no longer skip down the sidewalk laughing and playing. We don't get together with our friends and play make believe games (I don't include religion ). We're told at our jobs (that we work for most of our energized waking hours) to act professional. We're basically turned into robots, forced to act and walk and talk a certain way.. it's not natural.. it's no wonder we can't socialize for honeysuckle.. It's all a big fuckin act, and if any of us could act for honeysuckle, we'd be in Hollywood making millions instead of on here complaining about our problems.

Xephier102, I appreciate your time for a response and hear the wealth of anger and frustration that controls your life.  You raised several points that I could certainly counter, but I doubt if you'd be receptive right now to any defense of the Christian faith or the Bible.  Instead, I will offer this comment:

Whether it be drugs, alcohol, anger, or self identity problems, many people struggle their entire lives from the impact of being hurt somehow.  It takes targeted help and specific effort to overcome the damage, but numerous success stories around us show that it can be done.  While others will insist that professional councelling is the solution, I'd add that love via forgiveness is a key ingredient.  And to this point, there is no better example than the love and forgiveness that God has shown us through the sacrifice of his son on the cross for each of us.  When one believes and accepts this, it changes the heart, the view of oneself, and attitude towards others.

I won't preach to you anymore here, but have prayed that you'll find the peace and love in your heart that we all need and deserve. I'd encourage you to not settle for where you're at now.  Keep seeking.  And if you ever get desperate enough to consider praying yourself to a god you don't believe in, then you might want to watch this short video sermon:

Sir Joseph said:

Xephier102, I appreciate your time for a response and hear the wealth of anger and frustration that controls your life.  You raised several points that I could certainly counter, but I doubt if you'd be receptive right now to any defense of the Christian faith or the Bible.  Instead, I will offer this comment:

Whether it be drugs, alcohol, anger, or self identity problems, many people struggle their entire lives from the impact of being hurt somehow.  It takes targeted help and specific effort to overcome the damage, but numerous success stories around us show that it can be done.  While others will insist that professional councelling is the solution, I'd add that love via forgiveness is a key ingredient.  And to this point, there is no better example than the love and forgiveness that God has shown us through the sacrifice of his son on the cross for each of us.  When one believes and accepts this, it changes the heart, the view of oneself, and attitude towards others.

I won't preach to you anymore here, but have prayed that you'll find the peace and love in your heart that we all need and deserve. I'd encourage you to not settle for where you're at now.  Keep seeking.  And if you ever get desperate enough to consider praying yourself to a god you don't believe in, then you might want to watch this short video sermon:

Click to expand...

Sorry, won't watch the video, I deal with enough passive brainwashing from politics and corporations. If this 'god' wants to bring his Almighty neglectful ass down here and show me proof of life, then so be it but until then, I certainly won't waste my life praying to thin air. 

But as a fairness to religion in general, I will say this much, most of the mainstream religions are bullshit. They're just built as a counterpart to capitalism. Too much corruption and greed. If you want to follow a religion that actually makes any sense at all, maybe try that ghandi, bhuda, Dali lama stuff. The ones that talk real sense and philosophy and meditation. The ones that are more about peace and less about war. I know the Christans like to act like they're so much better than the Catholics, but it's practically the same religion with a slightly nicer face to it. It's like comparing Canada to the US. Same thing, slightly less corruption.

Catholics are Christians.  There are many Christian denominations, one is not more Christian than another. 

TheRealCallie said:

Catholics are Christians.  There are many Christian denominations, one is not more Christian than another. 

Click to expand...

They would argue otherwise. For one, from my little experience with it when I was younger; Christian's pray to jebus, Catholics pray to god. But in the end, they both may as well be praying to the wizard of Oz. Same exact affect. 

But  not a lot of point getting into it. I mean, I'd be glad to. Just considering the fact that I could out debate any religious fanatic there is. I one time started a thread on a dating site forum (under the religion section) disputing the existence of a god. That thread got so many posts and views that it actually autospawned a continuing thread. It was around 6000ish views, 600ish posts (last I checked it that is, but the site since shut down the forum).
I was actually able to give valid counter arguments to anything said, to the point that all they had left to argue was "it just is because it is!". Lol.. 
You literally can't prove the non existence of something, so of course they tried the "you can't prove God doesn't exist" lol.. that's kinda a one size fits all argument though since it can be said about literally anything.

But ya, point being, if we get into religion and other people decide to coin in, this thread will eventually get shut down, if I don't land a ban on top of it (depending on the temperament of the moderators).

While I understand that there are some truths in religion (the best lies are laced with truth); the same points can be made without the inclusion of religion (also an irony to those that try to prove religion; the provable truths that there are within the religious texts, can also be proven without the religious context).

I'll just say it again. You should really do your research before you post. You clearly don't have your facts straight...or right...or make much sense.

TheRealCallie said:

I'll just say it again.  You should really do your research before you post.  You clearly don't have your facts straight...or right...or make much sense.  

Click to expand...

I do my research before I post on any serious topics or debates. But I don't take religion so seriously since it's just a big game of adult make believe, to take our minds off the real issues in society. But as for the stance of Christian's vs Catholics; I'm just saying what I've heard and been told by many people throughout my life from all over Canada and all over the world(online).

So is this thread about partially religious notions of free will vs. determinism or is it about the lack of freedom in an oppressive capitalist system...

Saying what you've heard from many people is not the best pathway to facts. For what it's worth, a cursory search told me that even Christians that do not believe in the trinity of the Father, his Son and the Holy Spirit are considered Christians, like Unitarians. Some prayers are directed at the Holy Spirit specifically. Some Christians, like the Orthodox, may even pray to saints. I don't have to get why, I'm just an atheist after all. But proof that these things happen is clearly there. No doubt they argue with each other what is proper, more or less Christian...but who cares, even atheists argue with each other which principles have to constitute a proper atheism.

Rodent said:

So is this thread about partially religious notions of free will vs. determinism or is it about the lack of freedom in an oppressive capitalist system...

Saying what you've heard from many people is not the best pathway to facts. For what it's worth, a cursory search told me that even Christians that do not believe in the trinity of the Father, his Son and the Holy Spirit are considered Christians, like Unitarians. Some prayers are directed at the Holy Spirit specifically. Some Christians, like the Orthodox, may even pray to saints. I don't have to get why, I'm just an atheist after all. But proof that these things happen is clearly there. No doubt they argue with each other what is proper, more or less Christian...but who cares, even atheists argue with each other which principles have to constitute a proper atheism.

Click to expand...

Look up "basic income support policy", and it's many benefits. The major drawback (that doesn't even require explanation) is that it costs money (duh..) Like, a lot though. But if you actually read through the benefits, as well as the previous trial run results that have been tried in Canada (Manitoba 1970, and more recently in Ontario), the benefits are far more likely to outweigh the costs, especially in the long term.

To the point though, the lack of such a system is a good part of the reason I hate capitalism. The gov will spend billions to bail out people that are already billionaires, but will only spend the bare minimum to help those that truly need it. And the current policies are ludicrous.. For example, they'd build a thousand homeless shelters before they'd consider free education, and even benefits/incentives to those that are willing to undergo it in order to become skilled workers (all while bringing in thousands more immigrants and refugees; many of which end up taking jobs that require no education).

There's plenty of programs to push people back into the work force, but none to ensure that people are happy. And because of that, there's a large amount of pissed off and ignorant people in this country. And a large mentality among the working class of telling people that are dealing with severe anxiety, and/or clinical depression, to suck it up and get back to work. There's too much of that "earn your keep" BS.. Like, really.. I didn't even ask to be born, much less born here (before anyone gets ignorant about that comment; Third world countries, dictatorships, and America, are not the only alternatives to Canada, much as people would somehow believe otherwise..).. 
Honestly, I feel that we're taught to be so dependent/subservient in this society, that we see no other option but this one. Then when you even suggest otherwise, people say that you aren't patriotic.. Do people even understand the bare bones of what that means? Like, what are we being 'patriotic' to? A bunch of dead people that died so that this country could be taken over, and molded  by the rich for the rich?