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Incels have it correct or do they?
#1
In case you are wondering what Incels are:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incel

https://incels.wiki/w/Scientific_Blackpill

And here is a link to the demographics:

https://incels.wiki/w/Demographics_of_inceldom

Sure, at first you might say Incels are a bunch of whiny cry baby blame all woman for their crappy life losers. But, look at the facts.

A lot of what they say makes sense. Society is setup for the Chads, good looking males, and Stacy's, the hot looking females. But, many / most guys are, Beta, the non-good looking males who are constantly rejected. The problem is that the Becky's, the non-Stacy's, are after Chad just like the Stacy's. So, where does that leave the average and below guy?

He is either off alone, as an Incel, and not producing children or he ends up in the friends only category hoping some day to get lucky. But, that's not going to happen.
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#2
This topic is not going to go well. Incels, IMO are just bitter, negative people (yes, there are women incels too) who are only looking to blame others for their problems. I'm not saying they only blame the opposite sex for their issues, they are looking for anything and anyone they can blame so they don't have to look to themselves. But honestly, that's not just an issue with incels, it's an issue with a lot of people.
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#3
I've spent some time among incels and while there are some that actually bother with the science a little bit, many of them only care for the science as meme material. Hardly anybody reads or understands any studies while exaggerating many conclusions - which is really not necessary in many cases if certain results were properly acknowledged as trends and not as black-and-white cases. The fact aside that many studies are either not even proper studies or are taken as 100% fact due to confirmation bias or by reversing cause and effect.

I say all that while being well aware that a "pop science attitude" is prevalent among many other political groupings on the internet to fuel their belief system. And they are belief systems first and foremost. Some are just taken more seriously than others. Yet very few are considered potential terrorists while having a lot more influence.

In the end even Incels can't agree among each others if Looks are King or if 70% of self-proclaimed incels are just mentalcels or fakecels to begin with. Average dudes with low self-esteem that don't have the confidence to approach women even on a platonic level, let alone with romantic intent.

One thing you haven't addressed is what the average or below guy is after. I can't say I got a good impression judging by the sample of incels I've personally interacted with. If you give any credence to the dating site studies that are always tossed around - and many do not consider those surveys to be worth anything - the average man may still aim high, but is overall more forgiving in his choices than the average woman. It's often unclear how much this can be extrapolated on the basis of the sex inequality on dating sites. Many many men, few women. Supply and demand. Some people think that forcibly narrowing the market is a solution, but I don't know about that. I'm not talking about some wacko genocidal intentions here, but simpler ideas like people looking for partners in their immediate environment instead of being overstimulated by a saturated market that always presents the very top of the iceberg to you.

Anyways, that's enough background information. Consider that my hot take.
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#4
(03-28-2020, 02:40 AM)Finished Wrote: Sure, at first you might say Incels are a bunch of whiny cry baby blame all woman for their crappy life losers. But, look at the facts.

Took the words right out of my mouth. Thanks.
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#5
I had written a huge long winded post; but, I'd rather just say I don't subscribe to the ideas/notions of the whole topic you are getting into.  It's bullshit intellectualism.  It's victimhood masquerading as a justification.

Life is not fair.  People get cancer.  Mommies die, daddies die, and babbies die.  Life isn't fair.  People get sick.  The list goes on.

There are sex positive prostitutes, there are sex positive sex therapists, and there are places where prostitution is legal.  Seek that out if your circumstances are really that bad.  People need physical connection, both men and women, and there ARE women who understand that and want to help men.  Just like there are men who understand the troubles of women and want to help them.

Alpha, beta, incel, chad, and stacy?  What the fuck, man? lol.  I personally think social hierarchy is fucking stupid.  Ever have a pet cat?  Your pet cat sees you as an equal.  No hierarchy there.  Dogs and baboons have social pecking orders.  Fuck all that bullshit.  Sure my bosses enjoy my fear of their social superiority over me; but, when I'm not working, fuck that shit.  And fuck them.  Bunch of fucking baboons who'd rather me be afraid of them, then to have a laugh with me.  I'd rather be loved than feared. 

So fuck all that bullshit made up terminology.  I'm above it, even if I have to live below it most of the time.  Assertive, aggressive, and confident men are the minority.  At the worst, they are half; but, I know it's much less than that.  And at least half the time, these are type of men women complain about the most, because they don't meet emotional needs, they cheat, they lie, they betray, or they are violent, and aggressive in the wrong ways.  Ever see a single woman who has a kid or a few kids?  And I mean young kids, not the kind of divorce that happens when people have grown apart after a couple decades.  There's reasons for that.  I'd much rather be where I am right now, than to be paying child support and still not getting laid, lol.  Or worse, being taken to court, for not paying child support.

And that' not always the case.  There are gentle giants of men out there.  They are absolute eye candy to women, and to top that off, they are a pleasure to be around.  I'm not one of these dudes.  Meh.  What can you do?  I've got my pros to go with my cons.

I'm insecure as fuck.  I am not an eligible bachelor, at the moment.  But, I have enough of my own problems, and compared to some of those other ones, I guess my shit isn't so bad.
Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard inner battle.
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#6
There are many, many classically 'ugly' men who attract attract, date and marry classically beautiful women.

I use the word 'classically' because beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Personally the likes of Cindy Crawford, Julia Roberts, Sandra Bullock do nothing for me, but they're still seen by the world as beautiful women.

As far as Incels/Femcels go, imagine a dating site for them. What would happen is they would still categorise themselves, the classically 'Average looking' people would rise to the top in their world, so eventually the ones who were left would set up their own dating website, for the really ugly. Guess what? The classically really ugly people, would lord it over the really, really ugly people, s oeventuallly they would set up their own dating website, and.....well....you can guess the rest.

Eventually you're left with Shrek .... who strangely manages to pull Princess Fiona. And The Beast for Beauty and the Beast, who manages to pull the Beauty, even old Quasimodo starts to steal the heart of Esmerelda.

All fiction and fairy stories, right? Actually, no, there are many, many real life stories out there

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/artic...y-man.html

All, just because they're rich and famous, right? Wrong again. This happens out there in the 'normal' world too. Just walk out your door and you will see it...well...everywhere!
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#7
Quote:TheRealCallie

This topic is not going to go well. 

Well, that's okay. I'm just glad to get some kind of response. Ha! ha!


Quote:I'm not saying they only blame the opposite sex for their issues, they are looking for anything and anyone they can blame so they don't have to look to themselves.

Hmmm. For the first 30 years of my life I just assumed I was normal just like everybody else. I thought it is was extremely difficult to impress women for everybody. I was popular and part of the in crowd until I hit high school. Then everything changed forever. 

Maybe there was some secrete I didn't know about. Even my co-workers and friends of friends couldn't set me up on dates even though they did it successfully for others. I asked everybody a round me what the problem was. 

I had a great job, lots of money, a nice car, nice clothes, a decent sense of humor, and I was generous. I was a good work friend to have. Everybody said they liked me. The answer I kept getting back is that everything was good I just needed to give it more time. One tall good looking co-worker even took me under his wing to teach me how easy it is. He said it was all all confidence. Blaaa. Blaaaa. Blaaa. I won't continue with the boring details. In the end he said shit I don't know why women don't want to be a round you. Then he stopped trying to help me.

So, I thought hmmmm. I need to look into myself. I did and tried everything. One thing I noticed is that tall guys seem to have a much higher success ratio. So, I bought a pair of the highest elevator shoes that I could get. It pushed me up to 6'2". Then I headed to the clubs. OMG! It was great! I could see over the top of most people. I had no idea. It's cool being that tall even just temporarily. Then I had women literally pull me into their groups as I was walking by. I thought it was a fluke at first but it wasn't. But, I didn't want to continue on with that crap for very long. A few people noticed and then it became very embarrassing.

I did many other experiments on dating sites and discovered that the tall dark and handsome thing is real. I'm the complete opposite of that. I made a very honest profile and put the best picture of myself on there that I could. I sent out literally hundreds of requests to women. I got zero back. I even emailed the host and asked if my account was blocked or something. They said nope. It works just fine. Give it more time. I gave it six months. 

Still not a single response back. So, I simply plugged in a picture of a better looking guy. Then I was getting many unsolicited requests. Most of their comments were about how funny I was, etc, etc, etc. Women were actually reading my bio. Wow! So, then I change my add to come across as a real dickhead that made no money. I still got tons of unsolicited requests. 

So, the only thing that really matters is looks. I accepted that and moved on. Then I came across Incel sites. I thought, hmmm, this looks completely stupid. Ha! ha! But, I kept looking into it and looked at the geographic facts from non-Incels. I thought it was really interesting because looks for women have become WAY more important all over the world. I guess in general women's basic needs have been fulfilled so a new criteria was needed. It's kind of like a bachelor's degree. They don't mean much any more because they are so plentiful and handed out so easily.

I tried to signup on an Incel site and was blocked because I was using a VPN. They required you to identify were real IP address. I really laughed hard on that one. There's no way I would expose my real IP address to them. Sure, I could get a better VPN. But, it wasn't worth the effort. I did read quite a few of their posts thought. The members on that site blamed all women for all of their troubles. It was kind of funny. They injured themselves and blamed it on Stacy. Ha! ha!

But, the views and beliefs of the Incels vary widely. It's kind of like saying all women's lib stuff is crap.

I enjoyed my look into Incels and technically I'm one of them. But, I can't blame women for being alone. I definitely don't think the government should force a woman to be my slave either. I wouldn't want that even if they did. It just sucks and that is just how it is.

I do blame the government for equalizing other people for their inadequacies though. It strips me of the qualities that I have to get ahead in life.
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#8
(03-29-2020, 12:48 AM)Finished Wrote:
Quote:TheRealCallie

This topic is not going to go well. 

Well, that's okay. I'm just glad to get some kind of response. Ha! ha!


Quote:I'm not saying they only blame the opposite sex for their issues, they are looking for anything and anyone they can blame so they don't have to look to themselves.

Hmmm. For the first 30 years of my life I just assumed I was normal just like everybody else. I thought it is was extremely difficult to impress women for everybody. I was popular and part of the in crowd until I hit high school. Then everything changed forever. 

Maybe there was some secrete I didn't know about. Even my co-workers and friends of friends couldn't set me up on dates even though they did it successfully for others. I asked everybody a round me what the problem was. 

I had a great job, lots of money, a nice car, nice clothes, a decent sense of humor, and I was generous. I was a good work friend to have. Everybody said they liked me. The answer I kept getting back is that everything was good I just needed to give it more time. One tall good looking co-worker even took me under his wing to teach me how easy it is. He said it was all all confidence. Blaaa. Blaaaa. Blaaa. I won't continue with the boring details. In the end he said shit I don't know why women don't want to be a round you. Then he stopped trying to help me.

So, I thought hmmmm. I need to look into myself. I did and tried everything. One thing I noticed is that tall guys seem to have a much higher success ratio. So, I bought a pair of the highest elevator shoes that I could get. It pushed me up to 6'2". Then I headed to the clubs. OMG! It was great! I could see over the top of most people. I had no idea. It's cool being that tall even just temporarily. Then I had women literally pull me into their groups as I was walking by. I thought it was a fluke at first but it wasn't. But, I didn't want to continue on with that crap for very long. A few people noticed and then it became very embarrassing.

I did many other experiments on dating sites and discovered that the tall dark and handsome thing is real. I'm the complete opposite of that. I made a very honest profile and put the best picture of myself on there that I could. I sent out literally hundreds of requests to women. I got zero back. I even emailed the host and asked if my account was blocked or something. They said nope. It works just fine. Give it more time. I gave it six months. 

Still not a single response back. So, I simply plugged in a picture of a better looking guy. Then I was getting many unsolicited requests. Most of their comments were about how funny I was, etc, etc, etc. Women were actually reading my bio. Wow! So, then I change my add to come across as a real dickhead that made no money. I still got tons of unsolicited requests. 

So, the only thing that really matters is looks. I accepted that and moved on. Then I came across Incel sites. I thought, hmmm, this looks completely stupid. Ha! ha! But, I kept looking into it and looked at the geographic facts from non-Incels. I thought it was really interesting because looks for women have become WAY more important all over the world. I guess in general women's basic needs have been fulfilled so a new criteria was needed. It's kind of like a bachelor's degree. They don't mean much any more because they are so plentiful and handed out so easily.

I tried to signup on an Incel site and was blocked because I was using a VPN. They required you to identify were real IP address. I really laughed hard on that one. There's no way I would expose my real IP address to them. Sure, I could get a better VPN. But, it wasn't worth the effort. I did read quite a few of their posts thought. The members on that site blamed all women for all of their troubles. It was kind of funny. They injured themselves and blamed it on Stacy. Ha! ha!

But, the views and beliefs of the Incels vary widely. It's kind of like saying all women's lib stuff is crap.

I enjoyed my look into Incels and technically I'm one of them. But, I can't blame women for being alone. I definitely don't think the government should force a woman to be my slave either. I wouldn't want that even if they did. It just sucks and that is just how it is.

I do blame the government for equalizing other people for their inadequacies though. It strips me of the qualities that I have to get ahead in life.

You know what the difference between you pretending to be taller or pretending to be someone else on dating sites and just being who you are is?  Confidence.  When you were taller, you felt better about yourself.  When you were pretending to be a tall guy, you had a better attitude.  When you were yourself, you were negative. 

So yeah, confidence is important.  Improving yourself is important.  But you know what is even more important than all of that?  Accepting yourself for who you are.
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#9
(03-29-2020, 12:27 AM)Livebreathesmile Wrote: All fiction and fairy stories, right?  Actually, no, there are many, many real life stories out there

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/artic...y-man.html

All, just because they're rich and famous, right?  Wrong again.  This happens out there in the 'normal' world too.  Just walk out your door and you will see it...well...everywhere!

Sure, exceptions prove the rule and so on. But the less you know about some of the people named in that article, the better. Call me a cynic but when people - specifically women in this particular case - speak of how charisma makes them fall in love with a guy who is not only ugly but actually even quite a creep behind closed doors, it does not really give credence to the power of charisma alone but to the fatal attraction to psychopaths and dark triad types. And that's disregarding all the potential influence that a person's monetary or social status may have on who they can draw in.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/artic...amily.html

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-enter...15516.html
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#10
(03-29-2020, 01:55 AM)TheRealCal lie: Wrote: You know what the difference between you pretending to be taller or pretending to be someone else on dating sites and just being who you are is?  Confidence.  When you were taller, you felt better about yourself.  When you were pretending to be a tall guy, you had a better attitude.  When you were yourself, you were negative.

So yeah, confidence is important.  Improving yourself is important.  But you know what is even more important than all of that?  Accepting yourself for who you are.

Good guess. But you are wrong. The average person who has never experienced or have knowledge about similar situations answers exactly like you did. It seems logical. It is just wrong.

While it felt awesome to be so tall and see over everybody I also felt like a complete loser. I had even less confidence because I was nervous about being pointed and laughed at if and when my elevator shoes were discovered. BTW, it was very difficult to walk in those things. They were like 4.25" high heels. I don't know how women deal with those things. Ha! ha! Anyway, the women pulled me into their group because I was tall. That's was the only reason.

The first thirty years of my life I was extremely confident. I was working towards becoming successful and getting married. It wasn't until I realized how others perceived my appearance that my confidence started on a downward spiral. At first I just figured everybody else was an asshole. I have always had an open mind. My mistake was to open it up inward on myself.

It would have been better if I just stayed ignorant and assume women didn't like me because I was too successful. But, I let the cat out of the bag. It's kind of like nose and ear hair. You don't notice it until others start pointing it out. Now, I have to trim that stuff all the time or it will bother me. Ha! Ha!

Oh BTW, I do accept myself now. I don't give a shit how I look. Everybody can go F themselves. I try to stay clean but personally I really don't care. When I go out for supplies people don't even want to look or be close to me like I'm some kind of homeless person or something. Hmmm. Maybe if I was just more confident my appearances won't matter. Not. Ha! Ha!
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