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Incels have it correct or do they?
(01-08-2021, 02:24 AM)Finished Wrote:
(01-07-2021, 10:54 AM)Nicolelt Wrote: Yes! This is why threads like this is just a bunch of unproductive arguing.
It's not the threads that are the issue. People can make any thread into arguments instead of having an open mind, reading, thinking, and discussing different view points while providing evidence. Just ramming home one's opinion leads to arguments. I won't be done learning until I'm dead. I'm sure that I will learn many things that I think to be true now, are actually wrong later on. That's how we progress.

For instance I believed that wearing face masks against the Corona Virus was completely worthless. However, after seeing evidence to the contrary from various other users, I changed my opinion. They do help. Different materials and different thicknesses mater. But, they are only somewhere between 20% - 70% effective while social isolating is 100% effective. It seems most people are stuck on either they work or they don't.

I don't disagree with you there, but people HAVE to be open-minded. 

But to often it just escalates into insults, name calling, banning, and threads getting closed.
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^ Yep.

(01-08-2021, 07:17 AM)ardour Wrote: Interesting. I can think of one celebrity (Harrison Ford) with obviously asymmetrical features, but you're right, symmetry seems  to be a given in attractive people although I didn't realize it could have that much of an impact on how people perceive someone. I'm guessing before that you were looking at your 'good' side in the mirror .  You could post a pic of yourself, but probably certain people would just say you looked 'fine' or 'average' regardless.
Yeah, some actors/actresses excel with their ugliness. People don't want to watch only good looking people on TV and in the movies. It's nice to cheer on the under dog. 

To be honest for most of my life, before I decided to figure out why I was not successful with dating, I assumed my looks weren't too bad. I did know I wasn't handsome. But, I was physically fit and smart. I just assumed everything was fine. Nobody ever pointed at me and screamed, monster. I really didn't think I would go down the rabbit hole that I did. I just never really looked at my face before. Men don't put on makeup, which requires lining things up with various facial features. Sure we shave. But that's like painting with a two inch brush. I was just making sure to get all the stubble. I didn't actually look at myself. I laugh now. But, the first time I actually looked at face I thought, WTF! Ha! ha!

I will never post a picture of myself. Ha! ha! Besides the obvious, once a pic is on the Internet it's there forever for anybody to anything with that they want to. It's just not a good idea. I stopped being in any photos a long time ago. But, yeah some would say I look just fine. Maybe if I just.....did this or that..and.... Older people always said that to me. People aren't being mean. Actually they are trying to be nice. But, I think it's all about context. Saying someone looks fine vs dating that person makes all the difference in the world.
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(01-08-2021, 07:17 AM)ardour Wrote: Interesting. I can think of one celebrity (Harrison Ford) with obviously asymmetrical features, but you're right, symmetry seems  to be a given in attractive people although I didn't realize it could have that much of an impact on how people perceive someone. I'm guessing before that you were looking at your 'good' side in the mirror .  You could post a pic of yourself, but probably certain people would just say you looked 'fine' or 'average' regardless.

Wait, are you saying Harrison Ford is or is not attractive?

I'm pretty sure most women find him attractive.
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(01-09-2021, 09:08 AM)TheRealCallie Wrote:
(01-08-2021, 07:17 AM)ardour Wrote: Interesting. I can think of one celebrity (Harrison Ford) with obviously asymmetrical features, but you're right, symmetry seems  to be a given in attractive people although I didn't realize it could have that much of an impact on how people perceive someone. I'm guessing before that you were looking at your 'good' side in the mirror .  You could post a pic of yourself, but probably certain people would just say you looked 'fine' or 'average' regardless.

Wait, are you saying Harrison Ford is or is not attractive?

I'm pretty sure most women find him attractive.

No, re-read what Ardour actually wrote. All he wrote was that Harrison Ford has "obviously asymmetrical features." I then generalized after that by saying "Yeah, some actors/actresses excel with their ugliness." But, I also didn't say Harrison Ford was not attractive either. I believe that if I was famous and had hundreds of millions of dollars I would be deemed more attractive. If I was adored and appreciated by millions of people many would say that my different colored eyes that don't line up are super cool. It might even start a trend for awhile. I would be even more attractive if I also played guitar is a heavy metal band. When one excels in some area they become more overall attractive. I would too. But, I have nothing extraordinarily good about me. I'm just some dude like most. Harrison Ford is a super star.

I try to be careful to word craft my replies. But, come on, when expressing thoughts or feelings it's a little difficult to be extra precised not to insinuate something that might by interrupted by someone else the wrong way or offend them.
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(01-09-2021, 09:43 PM)Finished Wrote:
(01-09-2021, 09:08 AM)TheRealCallie Wrote:
(01-08-2021, 07:17 AM)ardour Wrote: Interesting. I can think of one celebrity (Harrison Ford) with obviously asymmetrical features, but you're right, symmetry seems  to be a given in attractive people although I didn't realize it could have that much of an impact on how people perceive someone. I'm guessing before that you were looking at your 'good' side in the mirror .  You could post a pic of yourself, but probably certain people would just say you looked 'fine' or 'average' regardless.

Wait, are you saying Harrison Ford is or is not attractive?

I'm pretty sure most women find him attractive.

No, re-read what Ardour actually wrote. All he wrote was that Harrison Ford has "obviously asymmetrical features." I then generalized after that by saying "Yeah, some actors/actresses excel with their ugliness." But, I also didn't say Harrison Ford was not attractive either. I try to be careful to word craft my replies. But, come on, when expressing thoughts or feelings it's a little difficult to be extra precised not to insinuate something that might by interrupted by someone else the wrong way or offend them.

Yeah, the posts were a little confusing, that's why I asked.  I honestly wasn't sure which way it was going. 

I don't think symmetry is AS vital as you seem to think it is.  I mean, sure, if we are talking Sloth from Goonies, it will cause you some issues, but no one has perfectly symmetrical features, at least not without surgery.
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(01-09-2021, 09:53 PM)TheRealCallie Wrote: I don't think symmetry is AS vital as you seem to think it is.  I mean, sure, if we are talking Sloth from Goonies, it will cause you some issues, but no one has perfectly symmetrical features, at least not without surgery.

Okay good. I'll mark you down as symmetry not being as vital to you when your conscious mind has time to think about it in a subjective way. Like I said the average person's symmetry is off a little bit. That's what makes them average. But, there are differing degrees. I'm more towards the mis-aligned side then most. But, I'm not off enough that I look deformed at a distance. I showed a few other people the two pictures that I made from the combined halves of my face and they were shocked. They looked at my face, then the pictures, then my face again. Then they were like, wow! I didn't really notice it. But, dude! Your face is a mess. I stopped showed the images after that. Ha! Ha!

Attraction is both subconscious and conscious. We like to believe we are so smart because we can think about things. But, at first we use are old wild subconscious part of our brain to judge situations in order to survive. That's when first impressions occur. That's how most people initially select others especially now-a-days. It's an easy fast way to do it. Think online dating or HotOrNot type sites. The pictures are by far the main selector. That has extended to the real world. I don't think I'm the most shallow person around. But, I can definitely say there are some women I will not date based on a picture or two of them. IMO, the older generation was more forgiving about appearances. But, people are trained to do it thanks to the Internet, the media, the movie industry, and fashion magazines. 

But, if given a chance, people can become more attractive in different ways. That's the conscious, thinking part of our brains. That's how I was able to date a few people. They got to know me because we were forced to interact at work. Also that's where things like wealth, fame, status, etc, etc come into play. They could over look the deficiencies in my physical appearances enough to date me. I also believe feelings allow people to view others how they want to see them not how they really are. IMO, most people don't want to admit that they are dating a physically ugly person. So, they convince themselves, subconsciously, their partner is physically attractive. Some call it love. I know I've seen past girlfriends as 10s when I knew they weren't. But, that's how I viewed them while others didn't. However, all the women I dated later commented they did not find my physically attractive and it was way before we were having problems so it wasn't out of revenge. IMO, it was due to the "honey moon" period being over and that's when reality sets in.
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An example of biologically determined attractiveness would the composite face for each country. https://www.artfido.com/this-is-what-the...h-country/ - the composite looks more attractive than the average person, even though it is the average of many faces across the population. It's also fairly similar proportionally across ethnic groups which suggests attractiveness is universal.
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Yep^ Symmetrical, average looks, are typically the most attractive. That's a great page! Thanks for posting that.
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