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Depression and sadness are not the same thing.
#11
xephier102,

I just wanted to say your musical description of yourself is quite beautiful..

I probably have more to say on the topics being discussed; but, I'll just say that, I prefer the term, 'despair,' over, 'depression'... Or maybe as a certain tribe described it, 'the permanent sadness.' Though, I'd much prefer it be, 'the long sadness,' as opposed to the, 'permanent,' sadness.. Or maybe, 'the profound and enduring despair.'

"Did you hear about Jack?" "No, what happened?" "He's acquired a case of the profound and enduring despair.." "Oh, no, that's terrible, let's help him!" "Let's indeed; but, let us not force our, 'idea,' of help upon him, and instead approach the matter as a solution that must be discovered, rather than delivered and received! Perhaps the very problem is a solution in it's own way..." "Yes, that way we won't feel offended by his refusal of our, 'help,', and he won't feel put off by something that may not actually be helping!" "Indeed, let us all tread carefully, cautiously, kindly, and gently..."

-ts

P.S. This one spoke to me many years ago. I'd still say it describes me quite well... There's hope in it, I think. Probably one of the most beautiful songs I've ever heard.
Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard inner battle.
Namu Amida Butsu.

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#12
(05-03-2020, 05:03 PM)xephier102 Wrote: "My mother really fucked up bad when raising me.. I could have been so much smarter than I am now, even with my biological limitations, I could have been kinder as well, if not for this constant rage that boils inside me.. , I could have been anything, if only someone had been there for me, if someone had believed in me.. Now I'm just fighting on a daily basis not to lose my mind... 
You just contradicted yourself because you are blaming your mother here.  Maybe it's time you started to believe in yourself. It's never too late to change who you are. You can be kinder and you can be smarter.  You use whatever is wrong with you as an excuse not to be.  And no, I don't know you, but your words on almost every post tell me that. Stop making excuses and get on the road to being the person you want to be. Nearly anything is possible, stop limiting yourself.  It may not be an easy journey, but it can be done. 
As for electric shock therapy, I was being sarcastic, using the most extreme method.  I don't recommend electric shock therapy in any way, but it is still being used today, only differently. 
And I never said whether I agree with circumcision or not...
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#13
(05-03-2020, 08:58 PM)TheRealCallie Wrote:
(05-03-2020, 05:03 PM)xephier102 Wrote: "My mother really fucked up bad when raising me.. I could have been so much smarter than I am now, even with my biological limitations, I could have been kinder as well, if not for this constant rage that boils inside me.. , I could have been anything, if only someone had been there for me, if someone had believed in me.. Now I'm just fighting on a daily basis not to lose my mind... 
You just contradicted yourself because you are blaming your mother here.  Maybe it's time you started to believe in yourself. It's never too late to change who you are. You can be kinder and you can be smarter.  You use whatever is wrong with you as an excuse not to be.  And no, I don't know you, but your words on almost every post tell me that. Stop making excuses and get on the road to being the person you want to be. Nearly anything is possible, stop limiting yourself.  It may not be an easy journey, but it can be done. 
As for electric shock therapy, I was being sarcastic, using the most extreme method.  I don't recommend electric shock therapy in any way, but it is still being used today, only differently. 

I don't know you either, but it's clear to me that you have not reached a level of despair that I have, or you would understand this mentality, that comes off as a pure lack of logic to anyone that hasn't been through it. I know this because I talked to people that are in my current state on a depression forum several years ago, long before I was in this state, and I thought the same about them as you do about me. I always said that can't is just another word for won't. But now that I'm in this state, it's clear; I can't because I won't because I just don't have any can left in me..  I simply have no logical reason to put effort towards a life just for the sake of being alive. I applied for disability because I also feel like something may be clinically wrong with my brain, like, on a physical level. Like schizophrenia or something. or maybe it's just a mental break. But I can't handle silence anymore.. or mild ambient noise. The more nuts I get, the more people hate me, the more people hate me, the more nuts I go... They tell you again and again to get professional help, when all you need is love..

As for my mother, she deserves the blame, every bit of it. On an official level, I've forgiven her. But I will never forget the things that she put me though. And the one thing I could never come to terms with, even on my own road to insanity, is how she could abuse a helpless child that only wanted to love and be loved by her.

As an unrelated reference, people will gather up in the back of pickup trucks with torches and pitchforks to go after some pedo that touches a child once, and yet, the entire mentality towards parents that physically abuse their child for years and make them feel entirely worthless, the mentality is, that was in the past, the kid (now man) should just get over it.. Kinda hypocritical if you ask me..  Not saying that's your exact mentality, but it is a general mentality that people have. And tbh, being told different forms of "just get over it" is a major trigger for me. I will deal with this, eventually, in my own time (if my lack of health doesn't kill me first). But right now I'm beyond the state at which a Naruto style beating, to get through to me and change my thought process, is going to do any good. I'm not asking for pity (I never do, don't want it), I'm not even asking for understanding at this point (because I don't feel that most people can), only patience.

"And I never said whether I agree with circumcision or not..."

Well then, my argument was against, not you, but the so-called "benefits". Imho, talking about the so-called benefits, to someone that has had it done to them, and is knowledged enough to know that the list of benefits are nothing but excuses for barbaric practice; is like describing how there's benefits of rape, to a rape victim. And yes, I know, these are hardly the same things. A rape victim is less likely to have permanent physical damage to their parts..
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#14
(05-03-2020, 05:24 PM)TropicalStarfish Wrote: xephier102,

I just wanted to say your musical description of yourself is quite beautiful..

I probably have more to say on the topics being discussed; but, I'll just say that, I prefer the term, 'despair,' over, 'depression'...  Or maybe as a certain tribe described it, 'the permanent sadness.'  Though, I'd much prefer it be, 'the long sadness,' as opposed to the, 'permanent,' sadness..  Or maybe, 'the profound and enduring despair.'

"Did you hear about Jack?" "No, what happened?"  "He's acquired a case of the profound and enduring despair.."  "Oh, no, that's terrible, let's help him!"  "Let's indeed; but, let us not force our, 'idea,' of help upon him, and instead approach the matter as a solution that must be discovered, rather than delivered and received!  Perhaps the very problem is a solution in it's own way..."  "Yes, that way we won't feel offended by his refusal of our, 'help,', and he won't feel put off by something that may not actually be helping!"  "Indeed, let us all tread carefully, cautiously, kindly, and gently..."

-ts

P.S. This one spoke to me many years ago.  I'd still say it describes me quite well...  There's hope in it, I think.  Probably one of the most beautiful songs I've ever heard.
Yea, despair is more appropriate. Yes, my innocent soul was really something; if only the greed of this world hadn't ravaged it so..
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#15
(05-05-2020, 05:27 PM)xephier102 Wrote:
(05-03-2020, 08:58 PM)TheRealCallie Wrote:
(05-03-2020, 05:03 PM)xephier102 Wrote: "My mother really fucked up bad when raising me.. I could have been so much smarter than I am now, even with my biological limitations, I could have been kinder as well, if not for this constant rage that boils inside me.. , I could have been anything, if only someone had been there for me, if someone had believed in me.. Now I'm just fighting on a daily basis not to lose my mind... 
You just contradicted yourself because you are blaming your mother here.  Maybe it's time you started to believe in yourself. It's never too late to change who you are. You can be kinder and you can be smarter.  You use whatever is wrong with you as an excuse not to be.  And no, I don't know you, but your words on almost every post tell me that. Stop making excuses and get on the road to being the person you want to be. Nearly anything is possible, stop limiting yourself.  It may not be an easy journey, but it can be done. 
As for electric shock therapy, I was being sarcastic, using the most extreme method.  I don't recommend electric shock therapy in any way, but it is still being used today, only differently. 

I don't know you either, but it's clear to me that you have not reached a level of despair that I have, or you would understand this mentality, that comes off as a pure lack of logic to anyone that hasn't been through it. I know this because I talked to people that are in my current state on a depression forum several years ago, long before I was in this state, and I thought the same about them as you do about me. I always said that can't is just another word for won't. But now that I'm in this state, it's clear; I can't because I won't because I just don't have any can left in me..  I simply have no logical reason to put effort towards a life just for the sake of being alive. I applied for disability because I also feel like something may be clinically wrong with my brain, like, on a physical level. Like schizophrenia or something. or maybe it's just a mental break. But I can't handle silence anymore.. or mild ambient noise. The more nuts I get, the more people hate me, the more people hate me, the more nuts I go... They tell you again and again to get professional help, when all you need is love..

I'm different. I can't stand noise. It stresses me out so much... I can't focus or think clearly and I get really angry/on edge. I work in a factory and although it's not necessary/required, I HAVE to wear ear plugs to get through the day. I wonder sometimes if it's linked to my childhood, my mom used to scream at my siblings and I for hours about whatever pissed her off that day. Would usually only end after one of us got "corrected" in front of the others. (Usually by belt, often for something stupid that got interpreted as disrespect... One time, I almost got beat for having hiccups) My  younger brother has told me before that he hates loud noises/yelling too and that's the reason why.

As for my mother, she deserves the blame, every bit of it. On an official level, I've forgiven her. But I will never forget the things that she put me though. And the one thing I could never come to terms with, even on my own road to insanity, is how she could abuse a helpless child that only wanted to love and be loved by her.

As an unrelated reference, people will gather up in the back of pickup trucks with torches and pitchforks to go after some pedo that touches a child once, and yet, the entire mentality towards parents that physically abuse their child for years and make them feel entirely worthless, the mentality is, that was in the past, the kid (now man) should just get over it.. Kinda hypocritical if you ask me..  Not saying that's your exact mentality, but it is a general mentality that people have. And tbh, being told different forms of "just get over it" is a major trigger for me. I will deal with this, eventually, in my own time (if my lack of health doesn't kill me first). But right now I'm beyond the state at which a Naruto style beating, to get through to me and change my thought process, is going to do any good. I'm not asking for pity (I never do, don't want it), I'm not even asking for understanding at this point (because I don't feel that most people can), only patience.

I'm not so sure the mentality is "get over it"... though I've heard similar. It's taken a lot for me to forgive my parents... And I can't forget everything either, but I try to remember that I made the choice to forgive them every time my memories surface. It's not for them. It's for me. It goes back to that mentality you mentioned. I can't move forward if I stay mad. As an adult I have to let go of that resentment or I won't ever get past it. They were responsible for what they did then, but I'm responsible for what I choose to do now... No you can't just "get over it" and yes it takes a lot of time and patience. I was lucky that I was able to talk about this with my siblings who experienced it with me, and that I had friends who were patient enough to listen to me as I vented about it.(repeatedly) Maybe venting to your therapist would help you, if you have no one else. I'm assuming you already see someone, since you said on one of your posts that you think you might have schizophrenia. You are welcome to PM me to vent (not to discuss politics/religion) if you need to talk to someone.

"And I never said whether I agree with circumcision or not..."

Well then, my argument was against, not you, but the so-called "benefits". Imho, talking about the so-called benefits, to someone that has had it done to them, and is knowledged enough to know that the list of benefits are nothing but excuses for barbaric practice; is like describing how there's benefits of rape, to a rape victim. And yes, I know, these are hardly the same things. A rape victim is less likely to have permanent physical damage to their parts..

I have nothing to say about circumcision as I don't have children or a penis... So it doesn't really matter what I think. But I do want to say that you even said your mom made that decision based on what a doctor told her, so she was (at least that ONE time) trying to do what she thought was best for you... (An annoying sentiment, I know, but it might help a little to believe she had good intentions at least about this)

Also the statement about rape... Was unnecessary and a poor comparison. You could compare it to how they mutilate female genitalia in other countries. I'm sure they have their reasons for doing what they do as well... Doesn't make it ok... But I'm sure they justify it to themselves somehow.
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#16
(05-05-2020, 07:19 PM)kaetic Wrote:
(05-05-2020, 05:27 PM)xephier102 Wrote:
(05-03-2020, 08:58 PM)TheRealCallie Wrote:
(05-03-2020, 05:03 PM)xephier102 Wrote: "My mother really fucked up bad when raising me.. I could have been so much smarter than I am now, even with my biological limitations, I could have been kinder as well, if not for this constant rage that boils inside me.. , I could have been anything, if only someone had been there for me, if someone had believed in me.. Now I'm just fighting on a daily basis not to lose my mind... 
You just contradicted yourself because you are blaming your mother here.  Maybe it's time you started to believe in yourself. It's never too late to change who you are. You can be kinder and you can be smarter.  You use whatever is wrong with you as an excuse not to be.  And no, I don't know you, but your words on almost every post tell me that. Stop making excuses and get on the road to being the person you want to be. Nearly anything is possible, stop limiting yourself.  It may not be an easy journey, but it can be done. 
As for electric shock therapy, I was being sarcastic, using the most extreme method.  I don't recommend electric shock therapy in any way, but it is still being used today, only differently. 

I don't know you either, but it's clear to me that you have not reached a level of despair that I have, or you would understand this mentality, that comes off as a pure lack of logic to anyone that hasn't been through it. I know this because I talked to people that are in my current state on a depression forum several years ago, long before I was in this state, and I thought the same about them as you do about me. I always said that can't is just another word for won't. But now that I'm in this state, it's clear; I can't because I won't because I just don't have any can left in me..  I simply have no logical reason to put effort towards a life just for the sake of being alive. I applied for disability because I also feel like something may be clinically wrong with my brain, like, on a physical level. Like schizophrenia or something. or maybe it's just a mental break. But I can't handle silence anymore.. or mild ambient noise. The more nuts I get, the more people hate me, the more people hate me, the more nuts I go... They tell you again and again to get professional help, when all you need is love..

I'm different. I can't stand noise. It stresses me out so much... I can't focus or think clearly and I get really angry/on edge. I work in a factory and although it's not necessary/required, I HAVE to wear ear plugs to get through the day. I wonder sometimes if it's linked to my childhood, my mom used to scream at my siblings and I for hours about whatever pissed her off that day. Would usually only end after one of us got "corrected" in front of the others. (Usually by belt, often for something stupid that got interpreted as disrespect... One time, I almost got beat for having hiccups) My  younger brother has told me before that he hates loud noises/yelling too and that's the reason why.

As for my mother, she deserves the blame, every bit of it. On an official level, I've forgiven her. But I will never forget the things that she put me though. And the one thing I could never come to terms with, even on my own road to insanity, is how she could abuse a helpless child that only wanted to love and be loved by her.

As an unrelated reference, people will gather up in the back of pickup trucks with torches and pitchforks to go after some pedo that touches a child once, and yet, the entire mentality towards parents that physically abuse their child for years and make them feel entirely worthless, the mentality is, that was in the past, the kid (now man) should just get over it.. Kinda hypocritical if you ask me..  Not saying that's your exact mentality, but it is a general mentality that people have. And tbh, being told different forms of "just get over it" is a major trigger for me. I will deal with this, eventually, in my own time (if my lack of health doesn't kill me first). But right now I'm beyond the state at which a Naruto style beating, to get through to me and change my thought process, is going to do any good. I'm not asking for pity (I never do, don't want it), I'm not even asking for understanding at this point (because I don't feel that most people can), only patience.

I'm not so sure the mentality is "get over it"... though I've heard similar. It's taken a lot for me to forgive my parents... And I can't forget everything either, but I try to remember that I made the choice to forgive them every time my memories surface. It's not for them. It's for me. It goes back to that mentality you mentioned. I can't move forward if I stay mad. As an adult I have to let go of that resentment or I won't ever get past it. They were responsible for what they did then, but I'm responsible for what I choose to do now... No you can't just "get over it" and yes it takes a lot of time and patience. I was lucky that I was able to talk about this with my siblings who experienced it with me, and that I had friends who were patient enough to listen to me as I vented about it.(repeatedly) Maybe venting to your therapist would help you, if you have no one else. I'm assuming you already see someone, since you said on one of your posts that you think you might have schizophrenia. You are welcome to PM me to vent (not to discuss politics/religion) if you need to talk to someone.

"And I never said whether I agree with circumcision or not..."

Well then, my argument was against, not you, but the so-called "benefits". Imho, talking about the so-called benefits, to someone that has had it done to them, and is knowledged enough to know that the list of benefits are nothing but excuses for barbaric practice; is like describing how there's benefits of rape, to a rape victim. And yes, I know, these are hardly the same things. A rape victim is less likely to have permanent physical damage to their parts..

I have nothing to say about circumcision as I don't have children or a penis... So it doesn't really matter what I think. But I do want to say that you even said your mom made that decision based on what a doctor told her, so she was (at least that ONE time) trying to do what she thought was best for you... (An annoying sentiment, I know, but it might help a little to believe she had good intentions at least about this)

Also the statement about rape... Was unnecessary and a poor comparison. You could compare it to how they mutilate female genitalia in other countries. I'm sure they have their reasons for doing what they do as well... Doesn't make it ok... But I'm sure they justify it to themselves somehow.
Well, one way or the other, regardless of what I compare it to, some person/group will call it extreme because of the extent to which the act has been normalized in this day and age. But I honestly feel in some ways that it's worse than rape, or to be more accurate, worse than being raped in one's sleep. In-fact, very comparable in that context. I mean more like getting raped in your sleep if the majority of people acted like it was normal and that, again, you should just get over it. Like, no big deal, you just got raped, it happened in your sleep so you can't even remember it.. so what's the big deal? Right? Keeping in mind that within the context of that hypothetical, pregnancy isn't possible (for whatever reason).  That's actually another one that compares well to the more mild forms of pedophilia. Some random dude touches a kid, he's a monster that needs to burn in hell for all of eternity. Some Dr cuts the end off of a helpless baby's penis (permanently scarring his most sensitive - but now much less sensitive - part), he's just a good Dr doing his job (Just like the Nazi's - Just do your job, don't ask questions; regardless of how extremely wrong it is, and how you're a Dr that should damn well know better..).  But you're right in the sense that my mother didn't know enough to have made the correct decision in that scenario.. The fact that it was even legal in the first place is a pure failure of the system..

On a side note, I've put a lot of thought into it, and in order to directly compare across genders, I believe the closer equivalent would be if the females 'lips' down there were reduced and pulled right back to openly reveal all the sensitive stuff, then abolish all the female underwear stores and replace them with a 5 foot wide underwear section in wal-mart, consisting entirely of 100% cotton underwear (feels like a burlap sack against the sensitive bits, until the feeling goes away in them).. Keeping in mind, I was raised in the 80's and 90's, but even now, in 2020, the underwear situation has not gotten a lot better for males.. You can't walk five feet in a mall without tripping over a women's underwear store.. But I can't even buy men's briefs with a comfortable material in the big city. Boxer briefs maybe (but I don't like those)... I did manage to get five pairs of decent briefs before wal-mart discontinued them cuz reasons.. So now I get to wear five pairs of briefs over two week spans between wash loads (closer to a month these days #lovecorona). Yea, guys can buy them online, but it's kinda screwy that we should have to do that with how many women's underwear stores (FULL STORES) there is..  And yea, I haven't done that because I really don't want to buy something that is unlikely returnable, pay for the shipping and everything, just to find out the material feels the same as hanes/fruit of de loom... Some things just should not be online only purchase...

/end rant.

As for forgiving my mother; frankly I'll never be able to do so internally, until I get to a state in my life at which I'm content. At face value, it may seem childish to blame my mother for all my problems, I'm an adult, I make decisions, yada yada.. But imho, there's a lot more to psychology than people are willing to admit. When you're one of the primary people to shape the mind of a child, it is your responsibility to do so right, that way they don't turn into the next Charles Manson.. I mean, there's a reason why kids that were treated badly, have a higher likelihood of becoming criminals as adults. You can't simply compare their mind to yours and be like "yea.. I went through stuff, I didn't hack up a family and store them in suitcases...". Because everyone's brain is unique, the nature, the nurture. If my nature had been more hateful, or less logical, I could totally see myself being a serial killer.

It's hard to describe though.. Like, we should be more sympathetic to those that have been through things harsh enough to bring them to that point, but at the same time; that could never be a mainstream mentality, as it would open the flood gates to people using mental illnesses as an excuse to murder anyone that they don't like.

Honestly, schizophrenia was fully my own findings, my next appointment with psychiatrist is in June.. Generally 2-4 month gaps in that. But ya, you may have even noticed it in some of my conversations, the thing that tipped me off to that diagnosis. Disordered thoughts and speech. basically talking like Grandpa Simpson, is the best way to describe it to anyone familiar with the show. It doesn't even show as bad as it is sometimes because of my ability to edit on here. For example, I nearly went off on a rant about the Canadian health care system a few sentences back.. But as well, schizophrenia is hereditary, and that would explain a lot.. like why my mother acted like such a nutjob, and even my grandmother, I know little about her, but my uncle has mentioned that he feels something may have been mentally off with her because of how things went down when he was a kid.

Actually, about the noise thing, it's a bit mixed. I mean, it used to be that silence never bothered me, but the more amped up my anxiety gets, the more it does. But ya, sudden loud/repetitious noise will trigger my anxiety worse than silence, even now.. Also, been a while since it's happened, but I used to wake up now and then with my heart beating out of my chest because I heard my mother, or my somewhat abusive boss of several years, scream at me. almost like a ptsd effect or something..
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#17
(05-06-2020, 06:49 PM)xephier102 Wrote: Well, one way or the other, regardless of what I compare it to, some person/group will call it extreme because of the extent to which the act has been normalized in this day and age. But I honestly feel in some ways that it's worse than rape, or to be more accurate, worse than being raped in one's sleep. In-fact, very comparable in that context. I mean more like getting raped in your sleep if the majority of people acted like it was normal and that, again, you should just get over it. Like, no big deal, you just got raped, it happened in your sleep so you can't even remember it.. so what's the big deal? Right? Keeping in mind that within the context of that hypothetical, pregnancy isn't possible (for whatever reason).  That's actually another one that compares well to the more mild forms of pedophilia. Some random dude touches a kid, he's a monster that needs to burn in hell for all of eternity. Some Dr cuts the end off of a helpless baby's penis (permanently scarring his most sensitive - but now much less sensitive - part), he's just a good Dr doing his job (Just like the Nazi's - Just do your job, don't ask questions; regardless of how extremely wrong it is, and how you're a Dr that should damn well know better..).  But you're right in the sense that my mother didn't know enough to have made the correct decision in that scenario.. The fact that it was even legal in the first place is a pure failure of the system..

So most of this, mainly what you said in there you touch on some very touchy subjects for people and making comparisons to rape is never okay, ever. Nor are several other remarks you said but I'm not going to get into all of that because I am figuratively at a loss for words.
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#18
(05-07-2020, 01:14 PM)Sci-Fi Wrote:
(05-06-2020, 06:49 PM)xephier102 Wrote: Well, one way or the other, regardless of what I compare it to, some person/group will call it extreme because of the extent to which the act has been normalized in this day and age. But I honestly feel in some ways that it's worse than rape, or to be more accurate, worse than being raped in one's sleep. In-fact, very comparable in that context. I mean more like getting raped in your sleep if the majority of people acted like it was normal and that, again, you should just get over it. Like, no big deal, you just got raped, it happened in your sleep so you can't even remember it.. so what's the big deal? Right? Keeping in mind that within the context of that hypothetical, pregnancy isn't possible (for whatever reason).  That's actually another one that compares well to the more mild forms of pedophilia. Some random dude touches a kid, he's a monster that needs to burn in hell for all of eternity. Some Dr cuts the end off of a helpless baby's penis (permanently scarring his most sensitive - but now much less sensitive - part), he's just a good Dr doing his job (Just like the Nazi's - Just do your job, don't ask questions; regardless of how extremely wrong it is, and how you're a Dr that should damn well know better..).  But you're right in the sense that my mother didn't know enough to have made the correct decision in that scenario.. The fact that it was even legal in the first place is a pure failure of the system..

So most of this, mainly what you said in there you touch on some very touchy subjects for people and making comparisons to rape is never okay, ever.  Nor are several other remarks you said but I'm not going to get into all of that because I am figuratively at a loss for words.
Most people feel that those subjects are untouchable, like those things hurt them so badly that even talking about them is a sort of trigger. For me I feel the same way about circumcision, but most people normalize it and act like it's ok and like I'm just overreacting. All I'm trying to say is, imagine if anyone that had been through those things were treated the same way when speaking of them? That's what it takes to know how I feel. It's not a matter of minimizing those issues, but of adding emphasis to how badly and universally minimized that the issue of circumcision is. What is it that makes the things that I spoke of have that affect on you? More than likely (ultimately) the emotions expressed by those that have been through it, or god forbid, yourself. But to act as my personal feelings on genital mutilation are not comparable, shows a far worse lack of empathy on your part.
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