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Empathy-or lonelines?
#1
Ok, a bit of an off the wall concept but I’m wondering what people think.

With regard to loneliness, a concept that is difficult to explain but might be best illustrated by an example..

I spend a fair amount of my time outdoors and very often I feel real inspiration by the natural world and the environment. It can be anything, and not just the obvious.
In the spring it can be the rustle of the new green leaves on the trees in the spring breeze, the scudding of rain clouds across the sky in the autumn or even the freezing wind and snow in the winter. The sight, sounds and smells can inspire me and make me feel part of it.

I often wished that there could be someone next to me who could feel the same feeling at the same moment, inspired by the same thing. A complete antidote to loneliness.
I’ve never found that person. Having been in long term relationships and married over the last 20 years, all the experiences ‘done’ jointly but never truly shared in this way.

After much thought it occurs to me that in fact, experiences like this ARE inherently lonely because no other person can experience any particular feeling of another EXACTLY at any given moment, no matter how ‘empathic’ or a soul-mate they are.
Essentially we are all alone, to experience the world around us and interpret it in our own way- and we simply meet where we touch, in effect.

What say others?
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#2
No two people will ever be EXACTLY the same. Even twins aren't exactly the same.

A "soulmate" doesn't mean you are identical in every way. It just means they are your "perfect" match. But, that doesn't mean they can't enjoy the feelings you gave in your examples. It doesn't mean they can't be by your side, regardless whether they feel the exact same way or not.

We aren't alone. Or at least we don't have to be. It's about perspective and how you see others and the world and everything. We don't have to experience the world alone and while we are each responsible for how we ultimately interpret things, that doesn't mean you can't have someone give you some input and advice to help you come to your interpretation.
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#3
(06-21-2020, 07:52 PM)TheRealCallie Wrote: No two people will ever be EXACTLY the same.  Even twins aren't exactly the same.  

A "soulmate" doesn't mean you are identical in every way.  It just means they are your "perfect" match.  But, that doesn't mean they can't enjoy the feelings you gave in your examples.  It doesn't mean they can't be by your side, regardless whether they feel the exact same way or not.  

We aren't alone.  Or at least we don't have to be.  It's about perspective and how you see others and the world and everything.  We don't have to experience the world alone and while we are each responsible for how we ultimately interpret things, that doesn't mean you can't have someone give you some input and advice to help you come to your interpretation.

Wise, balanced reply. I suspect sights are set too high. I don't know where the expectation comes from since of course no two people CAN be exactly the same.
I suppose that in fact what I'm looking for is some kind of mind-meld that doesn't actually exist in reality. Smile
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#4
I was just about to write a similar reply..  :/
So I will write it anyway  Big Grin


As a person with a very long history of loneliness (jeez, the sound awful), I can relate to what  you wrote. I can give a simpler example for me and Ice-cream. It is heaven for me when I eat it. Really. You should see my face then. And no way can anyone share that with me the same way I share it. But I would like to add that having someone with me who enjoys his ice cream as mush as I do makes the experience not only amazing (as it is even if I am alone), but so much more interesting. We can say something like: Oh my gosh did you taste this frozen piece of caramel at the end?  Or those cookie bits? 
Then the other would say: oh yeah and have you forgotten the sprinkles?

I believe this is one reason that makes our childhood memories with cousin or friends say at the beach or a camp or whatever, even the bad moments (at the time) so very precious. Because you find someone feeling exactly the same way like you did back then. Or at least they give you the perception they did (and in truth they did). It makes them double fun.

Here lies the importance of having someone, Because we wish they would share with us these feelings.
I have read somewhere that love is when you feel that all your self boundaries are gone and you and the loved one feel as one person.
And so you imagine that "someone next to me who could feel the same feeling at the same moment, inspired by the same thing. "

It may happen, but more often it doesn't.
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#5
(06-21-2020, 08:21 PM)Broken heart Wrote: I was just about to write a similar reply..  :/
So I will write it anyway  Big Grin


As a person with a very long history of loneliness (jeez, the sound awful), I can relate to what  you wrote. I can give a simpler example for me and Ice-cream. It is heaven for me when I eat it. Really. You should see my face then. And no way can anyone share that with me the same way I share it. But I would like to add that having someone with me who enjoys his ice cream as mush as I do makes the experience not only amazing (as it is even if I am alone), but so much more interesting. We can say something like: Oh my gosh did you taste this frozen piece of caramel at the end?  Or those cookie bits? 
Then the other would say: oh yeah and have you forgotten the sprinkles?

I believe this is one reason that makes our childhood memories with cousin or friends say at the beach or a camp or whatever, even the bad moments (at the time) so very precious. Because you find someone feeling exactly the same way like you did back then. Or at least they give you the perception they did (and in truth they did). It makes them double fun.

Here lies the importance of having someone, Because we wish they would share with us these feelings.
I have read somewhere that love is when you feel that all your self boundaries are gone and you and the loved one feel as one person.
And so you imagine that "someone next to me who could feel the same feeling at the same moment, inspired by the same thing. "

It may happen, but more often it doesn't.

I suppose that in the end we are trapped in our own perceptions of things and subject to the limitations thereof. So perhaps some of us chase that hope of oneness with another that is ultimately futile.
In the end it depends on how much we compromise.

I suspect I am about to go off topic here... Big Grin
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#6
It sounds like you guys want to, essentially, date yourself. Have someone who is exactly the same as you because you think (maybe?) that it would make every experience more....orgasmic. (Sorry, had to use that word Toungue lol) Here's the problem with that. It would get boring. There were only ever be what you like, what you do, what you feel, what you experience and interpret. There would be no new experiences, no stepping outside the box, no randomness because it would all be about...well, you.
Does that make sense? I don't know.

With the ice cream reference, I don't feel the same way about ice cream you do. I really enjoy ice cream, but not to that extent. That said, I also love analyzing food, so I could have a conversation about it like you described, so, again, you don't have to have exactly the same feelings about ice cream, just someone who loves food. You need a chef or something like that. Smile

As for the lack of boundaries with love, I wouldn't say that's true at all. Love doesn't mean there won't be problems and issues...after all, love is not always enough. You will ALWAYS need boundaries, whether the other person is your "soulmate" or not.

I wouldn't want someone that has the same feelings at the same moment about the same thing. If that were to happen, it would be all about me. I want the person next to me to have their own feelings about the thing we are sharing, so we can discuss and evolve our thoughts and feelings into something potentially better than could be seen if we both had the same thoughts about it.
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#7
(06-21-2020, 09:08 PM)TheRealCallie Wrote: It sounds like you guys want to, essentially, date yourself.  Have someone who is exactly the same as you because you think (maybe?) that it would make every experience more....orgasmic.  (Sorry, had to use that word Toungue  lol)  Here's the problem with that.  It would get boring. There were only ever be what you like, what you do, what you feel, what you experience and interpret.  There would be no new experiences, no stepping outside the box, no randomness because it would all be about...well, you.
Does that make sense?  I don't know.  

With the ice cream reference, I don't feel the same way about ice cream you do.  I really enjoy ice cream, but not to that extent.  That said, I also love analyzing food, so I could have a conversation about it like you described, so, again, you don't have to have exactly the same feelings about ice cream, just someone who loves food.  You need a chef or something like that.  Smile

As for the lack of boundaries with love, I wouldn't say that's true at all. Love doesn't mean there won't be problems and issues...after all, love is not always enough.   You will ALWAYS need boundaries, whether the other person is your "soulmate" or not.  

I wouldn't want someone that has the same feelings at the same moment about the same thing.  If that were to happen, it would be all about me.  I want the person next to me to have their own feelings about the thing we are sharing, so we can discuss and evolve our thoughts and feelings into something potentially better than could be seen if we both had the same thoughts about it.
Interesting thoughts- logical and sensible.

However from my own perspective and experience, the differences are always a source of arguments and disquiet, whether they are voiced or not. Simmering disagreements and dissatisfaction. That's not to say it was always like that- except where it really mattered.
If there ever were an 'ice-cream moment' (I shall use that term in future- seems appropriate!) then they were very rare.
I'm not talking about everything here- as you say it would become incredibly boring if two people felt the same about everything- just the ice-cream moments would be good occasionally....

Coming back to the original point, I'm beginning to hold the opinion that we are all alone. Our experiences are unique to us as individuals because of the way we are wired up, and to quest for much more is futile.

As I say, it comes down to how much we are prepared to compromise. In my case perhaps not enough.

In the early days of relationships we all compromise wildly, but in the end we come back to who we are.
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#8
Oh well
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