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Forcing people to wear masks is so hypocritical.
#1
I live in the city of Phoenix. The Phoenix City Council has passed a declaration requiring face coverings.

SECTION 1. All persons six years old or older who are present in the City of Phoenix shall have possession of a face covering described in Arizona Department of Public Health Face Covering Guidance issued on May 21, 2020, (available at: https://directorsblog.health.azdhs.gov/c...now/),when they leave their home or place of residence and shall wear the face covering whenever they are within six feet of another person who is not a member of their family or household.

SECTION 2. Exceptions for face coverings will be made under the following circumstances:
  • for those who fall into the Centers for Disease Control andPrevention’s guidance for those who should not wear facecoverings due to a medical condition, mental health condition,developmental disability, or are otherwise covered under theAmericans with Disabilities Act; or
  • for children under 6 years old; or
  • for people whose religious beliefs prevent them from wearing aface covering; or
  • for restaurant patrons while they are dining; or
  • for individuals exercising outdoors or while walking or exercisingwith other people from the same household, if social distancingfrom others who are not your family members can be maintained;or
  • for engaging in organized group or team sports, exercise or otherphysical activities where it is not practicable or feasible to wear amask or socially distance; or
  • in settings where it is not practical or feasible to wear a facecovering, including when obtaining or rendering goods or services,such as the receipt of dental services or medical treatments.
blaaa, blaaa, blaaa

Last part of SECTION 4. Civil citation fines are $0 to $250, at the court's discretion.

So, besides legitimate reasons for not wearing a mask, a person can go to a cramped restaurant and not wear a mask. Or, people can be in groups doing physical activities, breathing heavy, and not wearing masks. One can come up with lots of other things that fit into the exemptions category.

Also, a large Trump rally is taking place in Phoenix today. The city of Phoenix Mayor said that they will not be enforcing the new mask policy at the rally even though it is well established that rallies are a high spread activity. AND this does NOT fit into any of the exemptions.

But, if someone doesn't where a mask while getting groceries in a large well spaced out super market they are under the threat of being fined.

Well, I say that's all bullshit! Either wearing face masks is necessary or it's not. Well, obviously, like most things nowadays it's political game playing. I don't play games. I keep hearing and reading that the best thing to do to stop the spread of the virus is to stay isolated and keep your distance from others. Masks, especially cloth ones, are only somewhat effective. Masks are not an excuse or magic shield to be able to get up and close to others. But, so many people seem to believe they are.

So, I stay clear of other people nearly all the time, keep 8 - 10 feet away from others when I go out, speak softly when I must speak, and I do NOT where masks. However, I went out yesterday to a couple places after the declaration went into effect and got blasted by others who were demanding that I wear a face mask. Several workers made very rude comments towards me without regard or knowledge of my situation. A worker at one store even followed me a round yelling at me. I kept telling them that I'm exempt and not required to where a mask and to keep their distance from me. But, they didn't do it. They thought they had some kind of duty to get into my personal space and insult me. Obviously, they weren't concerned about getting the virus from me or they believed their fake cloth mask was going to protect them.

I finally told one worker to call the manager. He showed up. I asked if he actually read the mask declaration. He said yes he did. I was glad and said then you know about all the exceptions correct. He said yes. He said he just needs to follow the law. I said great. That's all I want to do as well. He then asked what my exception was. I said I was under no requirement to explain that to him. But he insisted. So, I told him my religious beliefs, which they do, keep me from wearing anything that covers up my face. He said okay. That's fine then. However, I was harassed up to that point. Several people in the store came surprisingly close to me and made rude comments as well. It's like people have lost their minds. Our government continues to divide us with their political policies.


Other then that one manager nobody else said that they read the declaration. Some even said they didn't need to because it's the law and they heard it on the TV. People have become so lazy and believe whatever garbage other people tell them or they hear on the garbage news stations.

So, I say that the entire mask wearing thing, especially under threat of fines, is totally hypocritical BS. The politicians believe that as well when one looks at their actions. IMO, real masks do work if correctly worn and used. However, there is not enough of them and they should be reserved for first line workers. So the argument is that the cloth ones help. I disagree. From what I've seen the cloth masks seem to give a fake confidence to allow people to get close to others and socialize. When in reality they are all just spreading the virus.
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#2
I can see where you're coming from, I'm in the UK where (so far) it is not mandatory and I don't want to be forced to wear a mask either. HOWEVER...
The major point of the public wearing masks is not to prevent the wearer from contracting the virus but to stop them from spreading it if they already have it.
We know that people can be asymptomatic (that is, they can carry and spread the virus without showing any symptoms themselves) and this is the driving force behind it.
Basically, you wear a mask for the good of others. It's a magnanimous thing.
I would prefer to make the decision myself rather than have the law tell me to do it, but I guess if the state feels that people don't care for other people enough then they have to legislate.
I can see it happening here in time too- as it is in other countries as well as states in the US.
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#3
Actually, unless they changed it recently, they can ask why you are exempt and you just have to say medical or religious or whatever. They can't go asking what your medical condition is, but they can ask what benefit you get out of not wearing a mask.
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#4
(06-24-2020, 07:46 AM)Headbolt Wrote: I can see where you're coming from, I'm in the UK where (so far) it is not mandatory and I don't want to be forced to wear a mask either. HOWEVER...
The major point of the public wearing masks is not to prevent the wearer from contracting the virus but to stop them from spreading it if they already have it.
We know that people can be asymptomatic (that is, they can carry and spread the virus without showing any symptoms themselves) and this is the driving force behind it.
Basically, you wear a mask for the good of others. It's a magnanimous thing.
I would prefer to make the decision myself rather than have the law tell me to do it, but I guess if the state feels that people don't care for other people enough then they have to legislate.
I can see it happening here in time too- as it is in other countries as well as states in the US.

Thanks for your reply. That is what most of the media and people keep repeating. However, it's mask wearing theater, IMO, as I somewhat explained above. Most of the masks that I've seen people wearing only have some piece of single layer, usually thin, cloth directly in front of the openings of their noses and mouth while having gaping holes on the top and on either side. Germs and whatever easily flow right out of their masks from the wide openings. Also the germs and whatever are much smaller then the cross fibers in the single layer masks. So, the germs and whatever flow out barely interrupted by the masks. The masks should have several layers of cloth to provide the protection that they are assumed to have. People seem to think in terms of spit. Spit can't pass the single layer cloth masks. But, that's not the only thing exiting noses and mouths. The real effect is only stopping large forward projectiles while sneezing, coughing, laughing, breathing heavy, talking loudly, or forcefully exhaling for whatever reason, which does help to some small percentage. But, this isn't being explained to people. So, from what I've witnessed, people, when wearing a mask, seem to believe it's okay to get right up close to others. 


Keeping distance from people is by far the most important thing to do. The cloth masks are only to add an additional layer of help to the distancing. Wearing masks is something that most people can accept while social distancing is far more difficult. So, our leaders have chosen to hang their hats, so to speak on the mask wearing thing. It's a way to make the average person feel good about themselves as if they are really helping out. The problem is that when they put on their placebo masks they socialize in close quarters. The other problem is that I have seen a lot of people move the masks out of the way so they can talk, smile, and socialize more easily. I have seen numerous workers at the grocery stores pull their masks down and then I assume they forget that they did and continue on as everything is fine. I have seen grocery store workers move the masks aside, scratch their noses, and then handle fruits and vegetables. 

So, I keep hearing the argument that, well, at least the masks provide some protection. That's arguable. Also, my larger point is that the government here is forcing the average person to wear masks while allowing other's, mainly based on politics, to openly not wear them. It's also usually during high emotional, stress, or physical activities like protesting, having rallies, celebrating, going to bars, and/or exercising when they are really needed. Forcing people to wear masks while they are socially distancing, breathing normally, not speaking, etc is completely hypocritical.
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#5
Directly from the CDC website:


  • CDC recommends that people wear cloth face coverings in public settings when around people outside of their household, especially when other social distancing measures are difficult to maintain.

  • Cloth face coverings may help prevent people who have COVID-19 from spreading the virus to others.

  • Cloth face coverings are most likely to reduce the spread of COVID-19 when they are widely used by people in public settings.

  • Cloth face coverings should NOT be worn by children under the age of 2 or anyone who has trouble breathing, is unconscious, incapacitated, or otherwise unable to remove the mask without assistance.

Evidence for Effectiveness of Cloth Face Coverings

Cloth face coverings are recommended as a simple barrier to help prevent respiratory droplets from traveling into the air and onto other people when the person wearing the cloth face covering coughs, sneezes, talks, or raises their voice.

COVID-19 spreads mainly among people who are in close contact with one another (within about 6 feet)



Okay, so the cloth masks may help. They don't know yet? Jumping up and down may also help. We all have had many months to test all the different theories. They are just guessing or putting out BS to please others. 

It sounds good. However, they seem to factually state that Covid-19 spreads due to close contact. Simple! Everybody stay six feet or more apart. 

But, I keep hearing on TV, the radio, and from our governor, "You must wear a mask. It's the law!" "Only idiots that don't care about others don't wear masks!" All the while bars, night clubs, strip clubs, and various other non-essential social gathering places are just fine being open with the politicians and the general public as a whole. The restaurants are open as well while pretending to distance customers.


If the real purpose is to control the spread then lets only deal with facts not assumptions, guesses, or hiding agendas. Also I'm tired of hearing all the BS statistics. The way they are compiling the numbers is BS. One can surmise any agenda they want from any group of statistics. 

If one tested people only in a certain area, say an Indian reservation. One could conclude that only Indians are getting the virus. That's exactly the kind of non-scientific number crunching that is going on. It's all about politics and the general public takes all the BS in as if it's fact when it's not.

The CDC previously said mask should not be worn except by healthcare workers, etc, etc, etc. Then they changed their minds after being politically pressured. I have listened to several interviews with a CDC spokesperson. Each time the radio host says something like, "and wearing masks is critical. Wouldn't you agree?" The response is something like it's a good idea to wear masks. One host sarcastically said, oh so they are that important? The CDC spokesperson didn't respond. The host was kind of surprised and said something like, oh, well, okay then. We believe masks are very important here.

The WHO, World Health Organization, disagreed with the CDC for months. But, then they were pressured to change their mind as well.

The politicians are driving this cloth face mask thing so they can say it's okay to open everything up without spreading the virus. It seems most people are buying into their BS. But, Covid-19 doesn't give a shit about motivations, lies, or intentions. It just wants to travel from one person to the next and infect them. It's kind of like trying to imprison a mouse in a human jail cell.

Real social distancing, not sneezing, not coughing, not breathing heavy, and not talking while in public are the facts for not spreading Covid-19. If those things happen the spreading stops. It's not rocket science. It's simple kindergarten stuff.

First line workers should have real protection equipment and masks. They should also get as much as they need and or want. All of our resources should be going to help the people that are going to help us, again that's simple kindergarten stuff. But, all the focus is on the average person wearing a cloth mask to stop the spread. It won't. We are just fooling ourselves. Well, I'm not fooled. 

 
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#6
I'd prefer a mandatory lockdown of everyone (except hospital workers and the like) for a month and use Martial Law. The National Guard can deliver food and essentials. And then this shit would be done. But no, people couldn't listen in the first place when this whole thing started, so now we are essentially screwed.

Maybe you should be thankful that all they are doing is telling you to wear a damn mask. It's not THAT hard of a thing to do and it certainly won't kill you, but this virus can sure as hell kill a lot of people out there because some don't give a shit enough to just wear a damn mask and not go to massive people gatherings.

Also, there are thoughts that this virus is the type that the more you are exposed, the worse it is, so that stupid ass cloth mask that you are so against actually could be helping you so that even if you do get it, it won't be as bad as it could have been.
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#7
I'd prefer everyone get infected and die off and leave everyone else. THat survives.
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#8
I see where you are coming from but I feel like your post isn't really an argument against mandatory masks, more an issue with some of the exemptions being overly generous.
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#9
(06-30-2020, 04:07 PM)LostintheBardo Wrote: I see where you are coming from but I feel like your post isn't really an argument against mandatory masks, more an issue with some of the exemptions being overly generous.

It's about the powers to be, being so hypocritical.

There are different types of masks and then there are respirators. If everybody wore real respirators then it would actually accomplish something real. I could accept that. But, those are far and few between. I have a welding respirator, since I do welding jobs sometimes, that restricts 99% of solids and 99% of gasses. It is difficult to breath when wearing it and it's quite uncomfortable. But, it actually works. It easily stops Covid-19. It would protect me if my beliefs allowed me to wear it out in public. But they don't.

The bulk of the masks that people are wearing are made of cloth. Now, there are different types of cloth. The thinner the material the less protection they offer while being more comfortable. So, most are single layer and quite thin. Some actually look like spandex. Those thins ones offer nearly zero protection.

My larger argument is either stop the spread or don't. Shut down everything for a month or so, like TheRealCallie said.

(06-30-2020, 02:27 AM)TheRealCallie Wrote: I'd prefer a mandatory lockdown of everyone (except hospital workers and the like) for a month and use Martial Law.  The National Guard can deliver food and essentials.

or open things up and let the virus spread. Then protect the small number of vulnerable people until there's a vaccine. 

Herd immunity is a known cure for any and all viruses. It's been proven from thousands of years. Our bodies are built to do that. I think most of the talkers, even the ones with credentials, believe that the flu virus is more deadly. But, Covid-19 seems to spread easier. IMO, we are all eventually going to get it and a small percent of already compromised people are going to die. We are just slowing things down a little in hopes of a magic cure at WWWWAAAAAYYYYY too high of a cost.

This half-assed starting and stopped the economy and the social distancing and mask wearing theater is completely stupid. It's mostly about politics. Many more lives are being destroyed financially, emotionally, and spirtually then what the virus would do. 

Would the hospitals be over run? Probably. We could setup lots of tent hospitals really quickly. Have we had time to prepare at this point? Yep. Did we? Nope. We are going to drag this crap out for a year or more. We didn't take our major financial reform medicine needed during the "great recession." That drug on for over a decade and continued to do so right into Covid-19. It appears that Covid-19 will drag on and on and on.

(06-30-2020, 03:07 AM)SirPanda Wrote: I'd prefer everyone get infected and die off and leave everyone else. THat survives.

Ha! ha! Well, that's exactly what happens with wild animals. It strengthens the herd. All the sick and injured animals are killed off. Then only the strong healthy genes get passed on. Feelings aside, humans like to save the sick, severely injured, and genetically messed up while using lots of resources to do so. It's really pretty stupid.
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#10
I couldn't find it on YouTube, so you'll just have to click the link. There's a new study that shows how effective each mask is, showing that it really does help slow the spread, if you have a proper mask, of course.

https://www.wmcactionnews5.com/2020/07/0...tudy-says/
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