When did you Realize you are Invisible to the Opposite Sex?

Its kind of funny what lonely, single men are told.  "Work on yourself, and someone will want to join you in your life."  Translation?  Make more money and get more status and then girls will want to be around you.

Every unattractive man i know with a wife/girlfriend has money/status.

Every unattractive man i Know without a wife/girlfriend has limited money/status.

So exactly when did I realize I was ugly and poor and this would keep me single forever?  I say i started getting some hints from my familly and how people interacted with them.  A few of my sisters are little monsters, yet they have no problem attracting men because they look good.  My brother is attractive, and women approach him and give him their number.  THis is despite people telling me girls never approach, girls never show interest, and if I didnt do everything I would never know if any girl likes me.  Truth is, if you dont measure up, your invisible.  Your not even considered.  You dont get past phase 1.  Theres no beginning, start, introduction, nadda.  You get no chance.  Its over before it even begins.

Im even uglier now.  I had a bad case of bells palsy that hasnt really healed.  A few muscles in my face dont even work anymore.  What a monster.  I hate being a slave to instinct, DNA, whatever it is that gives you the desire to be in a relationship.  This is just too cruel.  STupid MGTOW things its possible for men to 'go their own way' and just forget about women.  Sorry but every man is hardwired to want a family and companionship and intimacy.  YOu can try to supress those feelings all you want.  BUt they will always be there.  THe thing is, unless you measure up, you dont get to satisfy these feelings.  I hate being such a dead end.  

So I realized i was a dead end a couple years ago .  im conflicted on whether it would have been better for me to realize this earlier in life or not.  I was waiting on finding the 'one' for 30+ years.  But there is no 'one' when you are a dead end, and the others know it.  There's just a 'you'.  So really time helped me reach the conclusion.  After a while you realize if it hasnt happened for you then it never will.   I dont want to be alone.  But that choice was never in my hands to begin with

I can't say every unattractive man I know with a partner is rolling in income or status but what most of them have is acres of confidence to compensate, pretty much the trait lacking for most guys who get beaten down, bullied, humiliated etc. then ignored throughout adulthood. They seem to have gotten off relatively lucky and avoided the worst of that. An unattractive man without confidence, however, is like a clapped out Cortina at the British Grand Prix that fails to start.

I didn't realize it was me until I was in my mid-thirties. I previously listened to other's advice. Do this, this, and this. So, I did. I followed the recipe for success. But, it wasn't working. My friends and I couldn't figure out what the problem was. I had people pulling for me. I was setup on dates. But the dates were nearly all only first dates or "friends only" dates. The feedback was that I was a nice funny generous guy who dressed nice. But I wasn't their type. We thought WTF? What type are they looking for? 

We all agreed that I wasn't attractive. But, we all brushed it aside believing it had to be something else like most people do. I constantly heard that women really appreciate humor, dressing nice, being nice, etc, etc, etc. However, those are usually after appearances.

It was a really bad time for me when I finally realized my appearance was the problem. There wasn't a **** thing I could do about it. My confidence took a huge blow and it was game over at that point. Well, I could have done plastic surgery. But, I just didn't want to do that. Personally my looks don't mean anything to me. So, I'm not going to go through surgery to please others.

STupid MGTOW things its possible for men to 'go their own way' and just forget about women.  Sorry but every man is hardwired to want a family and companionship and intimacy.  YOu can try to supress those feelings all you want.  BUt they will always be there.  THe thing is, unless you measure up, you dont get to satisfy these feelings.  I hate being such a dead end.  

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I sure want to believe that I can block the mating thing. So, it's been over a decade since I completely gave up. I avoid the situation entirely now. I'm intelligent so I thought surely I can out think these **** instinctual thoughts and feelings. I've tried many techniques. It works for awhile but eventually the need returns. Usually a woman will be nice and talk to me for whatever reason. Then things power back up. **** it! Ha! Ha!

But, I will say that the mating up need has diminished over the years. Maybe that area of my brain has shrunk from lack of use. One can only hope. It's probably just getting older and having less hormones floating around though.

I have known single women that are in kind of a similar situation. They seem to be fine with hooking up with male dogs. Not literally, well, maybe. I don't know. But, they seem to be able to bond with their animals as if they are bonding with a male human. But, for me, there's no substitution for a person.

But, I'm still holding out for the possibility of androids being created before I die.

ardour said:

I can't say every unattractive man I know with a partner is rolling in income or status but what most of them have is acres of confidence to compensate, pretty much the trait lacking for most guys who get beaten down, bullied, humiliated etc. then ignored throughout adulthood. They seem to have gotten off relatively lucky and avoided the worst of that. An unattractive man without confidence, however, is like a clapped out Cortina at the British Grand Prix that fails to start.

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Confidence is attractive because its the most visible, easily perceptible measure of someone's superficial worth.

Someone who has alot of friends, money, gets hit on for their looks, etc, will have no problem exuding confidence. A person who doesnt have alot going for them will not show alot of confidence.

Put a million dollars in my pocket tomorrow, and my confidence will increase dramatically. When someone sees me being confident they will subconsciously think: "he has something going for him that is why he is confident". In this case its I just inherited 1 million dollars. And they will be attracted to me.

At 12

Finished said:

I didn't realize it was me until I was in my mid-thirties. I previously listened to other's advice. Do this, this, and this. So, I did. I followed the recipe for success. But, it wasn't working. My friends and I couldn't figure out what the problem was. I had people pulling for me. I was setup on dates. But the dates were nearly all only first dates or "friends only" dates. The feedback was that I was a nice funny generous guy who dressed nice. But I wasn't their type. We thought WTF? What type are they looking for? 

We all agreed that I wasn't attractive. But, we all brushed it aside believing it had to be something else like most people do. I constantly heard that women really appreciate humor, dressing nice, being nice, etc, etc, etc. However, those are usually after appearances.

It was a really bad time for me when I finally realized my appearance was the problem. There wasn't a **** thing I could do about it. My confidence took a huge blow and it was game over at that point. Well, I could have done plastic surgery. But, I just didn't want to do that. Personally my looks don't mean anything to me. So, I'm not going to go through surgery to please others.

STupid MGTOW things its possible for men to 'go their own way' and just forget about women.  Sorry but every man is hardwired to want a family and companionship and intimacy.  YOu can try to supress those feelings all you want.  BUt they will always be there.  THe thing is, unless you measure up, you dont get to satisfy these feelings.  I hate being such a dead end.  

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I sure want to believe that I can block the mating thing. So, it's been over a decade since I completely gave up. I avoid the situation entirely now. I'm intelligent so I thought surely I can out think these **** instinctual thoughts and feelings. I've tried many techniques. It works for awhile but eventually the need returns. Usually a woman will be nice and talk to me for whatever reason. Then things power back up. **** it! Ha! Ha!

But, I will say that the mating up need has diminished over the years. Maybe that area of my brain has shrunk from lack of use. One can only hope. It's probably just getting older and having less hormones floating around though.

I have known single women that are in kind of a similar situation. They seem to be fine with hooking up with male dogs. Not literally, well, maybe. I don't know. But, they seem to be able to bond with their animals as if they are bonding with a male human. But, for me, there's no substitution for a person.

But, I'm still holding out for the possibility of androids being created before I die.

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My problem with an Android is they would be programmed to love you.  They wouldn't get to know you and love you for who you are.  It would be like enslaving someone to love you.  At that point I'd rather not have 'love' at all even if it were from an Android.

I could live happy single if I could get rid of the thoughts that I'm severely lacking because nobody is attracted to me.

My problem with an Android is they would be programmed to love you.  They wouldn't get to know you and love you for who you are.  It would be like enslaving someone to love you.  At that point I'd rather not have 'love' at all even if it were from an Android.

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Well, the cool thing about an android is that one could program them to be random or even not love you. One could also program them to be bitchy or require you to earn their love and trust. They could be programmed to really like your specific qualities. Tall, dark, and handsome guys would be a repellent to them. The tricky part is that you can't know what the requirements are or if you will ever get them to love you. It's all about the chase. Love is not magic. It'a just a game with a set of requirements to get fulfilled. 

We are essentially just robots any way. The masses serve the wealthy and procreate to create more robots. 

I could live happy single if I could get rid of the thoughts that I'm severely lacking because nobody is attracted to me.

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I know exactly what you are saying. I set out to do just that. In my case, over time, the thoughts, feelings, and needs have drastically diminished. But, you have to get rid of all hope of ever pairing up with anybody. Then you have to accept that as fact. Stop making any efforts to attract another person. If a woman smiles at you, probably because it's actually the good looking guy to your side, just blow it off. She's not smiling at you. Do not smile back. You have to completely know and accept that you are alone and that's the way it is going to be for the rest of your life period. Sure they'll be occasions when you screw up and have hope. There are going to be relapses. But, you have to stay the course.

Now, there are many advantages to being alone. I do whatever the hell I want to do whenever the hell I want to do it. I do not have to make any compromises or check with someone else. It's all about me. I don't have to deal with all the problems that happen in relationships, and there are many. Whenever I feel lonely I reward myself for being alone.

So, I still believe, after being this way for over decade, that I'm better off alone. Sure, the fantasy of having an acceptably attractive girlfriend/wife that is nice most of the time, mostly understanding, and loved me, would be great. But, that is not reality. The grass is not greener on the other side. It's mostly brown.

I recently purchased some truck parts on Craigslist. I met the guy and his friend at his house. They just got off work. We chatty about trucks and 4x4 stuff for a little bit. They each had a beer. It's was enjoyable for all. Then his fat angry wife got home. She ignore him and went straight into the house and slammed the door. There was no hi honey or even a hello. After a few minutes she came out yelling at him to take of several things and stop playing with his truck friends. 

He yelled back I'm selling the XXXXing stuff you told me to sell. She yelled back that she could hear us talking truck crap. You could see the life draining from the guy. His friend left. I gave him the money and then put the parts in my truck. I laughed at the situation to myself. It seemed so typical. He shook his head and said I don't know what to do. She's pregnant and I hate my job. I'm working 60 hours a week trying to sell cars. I thought I was getting ahead. But, I'm not. Kids are expensive. I'm trapped. I don't see a way out for years. I chuckled and said, well you are living the American dream. Other people are lonely. 

Then I left realizing, once again, just how nice it is to be alone. I don't have to rush home and justify spending money when none is coming in. I just do it.

At least the guy working to support his future child, he has a purpose, and a 'legacy' I guess. It's not going to be nice when you hit your 40s and 50s and realize that life is essentially empty and meaningless.

ardour said:

At least the guy working to support his future child, he has a purpose, and a  'legacy' I guess. It's not going to be nice when you hit your 40s and 50s and realize that life is essentially empty and meaningless.

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Yea I suppose but believe me the honeysuckle and grieve you get far outweighs the good stuff being in a relationship full time.If I had my time again I would love to have not been hard wired to finding a woman to marry and have kids with.No money,arguments,selfish ungrateful kids,dominant father in laws that get a kick out of controlling your life.Trust me it ain't fun :club:

A pet peeve of mine is when people who are in a bad relationship tell single people that they are better off single.

That's like me getting a lemon for a car then telling others they should rely on Uber or public transportation.

That angry wife finished talked about should have been exposed while dating. The guy obviously ignored or overlooked her flaws before marrying her. I have a friend now who is divorced after being verbally abused his entire marriage. He recently told me my sister, who is a hot mess and prolific verbal abuser as well, would make a great marriage partner. It's people like this who get into bad marriages and then say nobody should get married because of how bad theirs turned out.

Not saying perfect marriages exist, just saying if you do proper vetting the extra joy marriage brings you will outweigh the problems.

michael2 said:

Not saying perfect marriages exist, just saying if you do proper vetting the extra joy marriage brings you will outweigh the problems.

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Well, the problem is that people are usually on their best behavior before getting married. After marriage most people relax and show their true selves. Also, people change. Sometimes they change radically.

It would be fantastic to be in a loving marriage with someone that was willing to work on problems together and didn't mind flexing a bit. It would be complete hell to be trapped in an abusive or completely dis-functional marriage.


IMO, being single is somewhere in between those two.

Just Games said:

ardour said:

At least the guy working to support his future child, he has a purpose, and a  'legacy' I guess. It's not going to be nice when you hit your 40s and 50s and realize that life is essentially empty and meaningless.

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Yea I suppose but believe me the honeysuckle and grieve you get far outweighs the good stuff being in a relationship full time.If I had my time again I would love to have not been hard wired to finding a woman to marry and have kids with.No money,arguments,selfish ungrateful kids,dominant father in laws that get a kick out of controlling your life.Trust me it ain't fun :club:

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Yeah Just Games stop moaning about your marriage just because you had an argument with your youngest when he was demanding money for a computer game and not getting off his arse to find a job like you did.Alright the wife said something that hit a nerve with you too but you should appreciate how lucky you are .Look you could have married that fat angry woman who was probably having a tough time being pregnant,hormonal even ,sure you really dodged a bullet there good job you vetted the wife made sure she was up to the job of marriage,you being perfect of course.Next time try to explain in a more accurate way how asking twenty plus women out,spending all your resources on finding the one could have been delayed for a couple of years to just enjoy being single instead of being obsessed with finding the one.

michael2 said:

A pet peeve of mine is when people who are in a bad relationship tell single people that they are better off single.  

That's like me getting a lemon for a car then telling others they should rely on Uber or public transportation.

That angry wife finished talked about should have been exposed while dating.  The guy obviously ignored or overlooked her flaws before marrying her.  I have a friend now who is divorced after being verbally abused his entire marriage.  He recently told me my sister, who is a hot mess and  prolific verbal abuser as well, would make a great marriage partner.  It's people like this who get into bad marriages and then say nobody should get married because of how bad theirs turned out.

Not saying perfect marriages exist, just saying if you do proper vetting the extra joy marriage brings you will outweigh the problems.

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How is any of that any different than you (and a few others) complaining about how evil ALL women are?

Finished said:

michael2 said:

Not saying perfect marriages exist, just saying if you do proper vetting the extra joy marriage brings you will outweigh the problems.

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Well, the problem is that people are usually on their best behavior before getting married. After marriage most people relax and show their true selves. Also, people change. Sometimes they change radically.

It would be fantastic to be in a loving marriage with someone that was willing to work on problems together and didn't mind flexing a bit. It would be complete hell to be trapped in an abusive or completely dis-functional marriage.


IMO, being single is somewhere in between those two.

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People might be on their best behavior when dating but nobody can hide who they are forever so dating for a few months then getting married really isnt a great idea.  I just feel most people dont know what to look for or overlook smaller things that are really hints at bigger issues with a person.  

You can also get around the problem by seeing how your partner interacts with their family, or people they are really close to.  They are more likely to show you who they really are around them.

It is true someone can change overtime after marriage.  

TheRealCallie said:

michael2 said:

A pet peeve of mine is when people who are in a bad relationship tell single people that they are better off single.  

That's like me getting a lemon for a car then telling others they should rely on Uber or public transportation.

That angry wife finished talked about should have been exposed while dating.  The guy obviously ignored or overlooked her flaws before marrying her.  I have a friend now who is divorced after being verbally abused his entire marriage.  He recently told me my sister, who is a hot mess and  prolific verbal abuser as well, would make a great marriage partner.  It's people like this who get into bad marriages and then say nobody should get married because of how bad theirs turned out.

Not saying perfect marriages exist, just saying if you do proper vetting the extra joy marriage brings you will outweigh the problems.

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How is any of that any different than you (and a few others) complaining about how evil ALL women are?

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All women arent evil, they just are predisposed to certain wants and likes that can make them seem insufferable at times.  Its no different then how many men have an obsession with younger women no matter their own age, which Im sure infuriates women.  So yes, not all men want women as young as possible, but its still the majority, just as its still the majority of women who want a man who makes alot of money (at least more then they do) and is influential.

However the difference is its far easier for a low value woman to find love then it is for a low value man.  This is because most women tend to want to date up in terms of social and financial status, while men in general have no problem dating down socially or financially.  So low-value women are not looking at other low-value men as a partner.  They're looking up.  This leaves low value men (like myself) in no-mans land.

A prince will marry Cinderella, but a princess is not going to marry some farm hand.  The idea women are offended by the Cinderella story nowadays just makes me laugh.  This is what happens when your so privileged you dont even need or want handouts anymore

So right now the people getting screwed are low value men, and, more and more recently, high value women.  WIth more and more women getting degrees and making more money and spending their 20s building their career they are getting into their 30s and wanting to find a partner and they cant.  Because other wealthy guys in their 30s and 40s are dating women in their 20s with usually much lower economic and social status.  And the successful woman in her 30s making close to or over 6 figures is not going to marry a guy making 40k a year.  So basically the predisposition of each gender is screwing the other over in some way or the other.


So Im sure high value wealthy single women over 30 might think all men are evil, same as low value men might think all women are evil.

I wasn't invisible. Just slowly drifted into unintentional stealth mode.

michael2 said:

TheRealCallie said:

michael2 said:

A pet peeve of mine is when people who are in a bad relationship tell single people that they are better off single.  

That's like me getting a lemon for a car then telling others they should rely on Uber or public transportation.

That angry wife finished talked about should have been exposed while dating.  The guy obviously ignored or overlooked her flaws before marrying her.  I have a friend now who is divorced after being verbally abused his entire marriage.  He recently told me my sister, who is a hot mess and  prolific verbal abuser as well, would make a great marriage partner.  It's people like this who get into bad marriages and then say nobody should get married because of how bad theirs turned out.

Not saying perfect marriages exist, just saying if you do proper vetting the extra joy marriage brings you will outweigh the problems.

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How is any of that any different than you (and a few others) complaining about how evil ALL women are?

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All women arent evil, they just are predisposed to certain wants and likes that can make them seem insufferable at times.  Its no different then how many men have an obsession with younger women no matter their own age, which Im sure infuriates women.  So yes, not all men want women as young as possible, but its still the majority, just as its still the majority of women who want a man who makes alot of money (at least more then they do) and is influential.

However the difference is its far easier for a low value woman to find love then it is for a low value man.  This is because most women tend to want to date up in terms of social and financial status, while men in general have no problem dating down socially or financially.  So low-value women are not looking at other low-value men as a partner.  They're looking up.  This leaves low value men (like myself) in no-mans land.

A prince will marry Cinderella, but a princess is not going to marry some farm hand.  The idea women are offended by the Cinderella story nowadays just makes me laugh.  This is what happens when your so privileged you dont even need or want handouts anymore

So right now the people getting screwed are low value men, and, more and more recently, high value women.  WIth more and more women getting degrees and making more money and spending their 20s building their career they are getting into their 30s and wanting to find a partner and they cant.  Because other wealthy guys in their 30s and 40s are dating women in their 20s with usually much lower economic and social status.  And the successful woman in her 30s making close to or over 6 figures is not going to marry a guy making 40k a year.  So basically the predisposition of each gender is screwing the other over in some way or the other.


So Im sure high value wealthy single women over 30 might think all men are evil, same as low value men might think all women are evil.

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You just justified your own opinion and generalized a lot of women (and men) and that's supposed to be different?  lol, okay, it's your story, tell it like you want to.....

A single professional woman in her late 30's/40's is in a similar position dating wise to a man working minimum wage (few-to-no acceptable options)

Can someone please explain the procedure for vetting a woman?Do you get references from ex boyfriends?Do you sit down with her parents and ask if she was a pain in the arse as a kid?Look at her parents and think is she gonna turn out like them or go the complete opposite ?Doesn't the fact that you actually find someone that likes /loves you and you just fall head over heals interrupt the vetting process or is it possible to just put these emotions  on the back burner to complete the vetting?Or just ignore me that's fine ,just interested

Just Games said:

Can someone please explain the procedure for vetting a woman?Do you get references from ex boyfriends?Do you sit down with her parents and ask if she was a pain in the arse as a kid?Look at her parents and think is she gonna turn out like them or go the complete opposite ?Doesn't the fact that you actually find someone that likes /loves you and you just fall head over heals interrupt the vetting process or is it possible to just put these emotions  on the back burner to complete the vetting?Or just ignore me that's fine ,just interested

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Well, you could do the obvious and higher a private investigator. If you are somewhat wealthy it is mandatory.

But, you can watch the interactions with family and friends as others suggested earlier. You can quickly see if mom and dad treat their daughter like a princess then you'll have to do the same or spend LOTS of time retraining her. If mom keeps badgering her about her weight or other things then those will probably become your problems. If family members seem to constantly disagree with how she remembers things while not disagreeing with other then her changing the facts later is going to be a problem. If her friends / family members keep saying they are surprised shes been with you so long because she never stays with anybody and it's only been a couple months then you're going to have to deal with commitment issues. If her friends like to party and sleep a round. Then that may become an issue when she goes partying with them and drinks. Maybe you'll find out that her parents are supplementing her income. She's not actually living on the $40K / year she said she is. You could try talking to an ex-boyfriend or two. You'll quickly learn what issues they had with her. They might be the same issues that you'll have with her. I could go on and on and on. But, I don't feel like it. You should be getting the picture.

So, if / when you find someone and actually love them enjoy the hell out of it. It's not going to happen very often for the lower tier guys. So, ignore the issues at first. After the honeymoon period is over, about 4 to 8 months, then start check things out.

It might sound cruel but sometimes it's good to test your suspicions. I'm not talking about cheating, although, that may be a concern. If you think she is a spendaholic and/or dishonest set some cash on the counter and pretend you forgot about it. If you think she keeps lying to you write down you conversations as factually and as soon as you can. Then go about checking up what she says. This is where her friends can help out. I.E. So, Kristy, when you and XXXXXX went to XXXXXX what did you guys do for fun? Did you meet any new people? Who's car did you take? What odd places did you check out? You may start seeing a pattern of little or massive lies.

IMO, everybody should vet everybody else out. Each person should be honest including what problems they might see happening in the future. That way they'll be no surprises. Problems can be headed off before they become an issue.

Well, I guess you can also say F it and just go for it. You may get lucky and you may get Fd really bad. There are no guaranties in life. Ha! ha!

Or, you can just say F it and stay single because it's not worth all the Fing BS it takes to vet someone only to find out that everybody lied to you and they are all helping to hide the fact that she's a crazy ***** who's suppressing her sexaholic cheating ways! Ha! ha!

RETRAIN her? Excuse me, we aren't ******* dogs.
And asking an ex about her....really?! Did you ever think that maybe they are going to lie? I have heard the lies my ex has told about me and none of them are true. And sorry, but just because her friends do something doesn't mean that she will do the same honeysuckle. And those "commitment" issues might not have anything to do with her.

Here's a thought. If you have an issue, TALK to her about it. If you want to know what someone is like, take the time to get to know them yourself and not rely on information about could be false.