random philosophical rant dicussion about good and bad

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VinityValswon

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So, I decided to dicuss this because, why not. I was having a think about what defines a 'good' and 'bad' person in society's definition. I've heard some sides claim that once a bad person does something bad (up to an extent to what they define as extreme) they are officially a bad person even if they have lived most of their lives doing good. Then I've heard the coutner argument to that; if people have done mosltly good in their lives then one or single moments of bad behaviour do not define whether that person is good or bad. And of course there are many many other arguments too. I think, the terms good as bad can be dissected even further. Different societies hold their own lens on what is good and bad and no society can truly claim to have the objective truth of what is morally right or wrong. But I think most of can agree on common good and bad behaviour up to an extent. I just feel it's a bit more complicated that using two words to describe a complex human character. Another random rant but I remember in school learning about a poem about a nazi officer who was in charge of the gas chambers, yet he bought a bar of chocolate when coming back home to give to his young daughter. Many people discussed this as a contradicton to the character because this person was doing monsterous things yet was still capable of being a caring father. It's interesting how people can be so cruel to others yet so loving to some. Reminds me of an anime about this man who unlocks unlimited power and feels no empathy towards anyone but one person. The human mind is so complex truly. anyone rant over. you can say something now if you want.
 
Okay, buddy, what the hell did you do? Did you knock an ice cream cone out of a little girl's hand or something? But, you still want to believe that you are a good person. Ha! ha!

tenor.gif


IMO, most people are perfectly fine being a hypocrite as long as it serves their purpose. People knowingly do bad honeysuckle all the time. Yet, they also want to believe they and all their friends and loved ones are good. So, it's easy for them to say something was just a single bad act WHEN they get caught. But, all those other people doing bad honeysuckle are bad people.

We are seeing that being played out right now. This time cops are the target. Next time maybe it'll be a different group of people. Forget that people are egging cops on to respond violently to them by breaking the law, ignoring cop's demands, and fighting with the cops. I haven't seen anybody get shot when complying with cop's demands. Maybe they are. I just haven't see or heard it happen. IMO, cops aren't purposely targeting people and shooting them. 

Cops aren't necessarily bad people either when they make judgement mistakes. They aren't robots. They are humans with all the same thoughts, emotions, fears, and flaws just like all of us. I could never do the job they do. It takes a certain type of alpha ahole aggressive type personality to be a cop. So, they are more prone to react aggressively especially when they are trained to believe that anybody they encounter may try to kill them. So, when honeysuckle goes south they react aggressively.

Oh yeah, welcome to the forum!!! Ha! Ha!
 
Finished said:
Okay, buddy, what the hell did you do? Did you knock an ice cream cone out of a little girl's hand or something? But, you still want to believe that you are a good person. Ha! ha!

tenor.gif


IMO, most people are perfectly fine being a hypocrite as long as it serves their purpose. People knowingly do bad honeysuckle all the time. Yet, they also want to believe they and all their friends and loved ones are good. So, it's easy for them to say something was just a single bad act WHEN they get caught. But, all those other people doing bad honeysuckle are bad people.

We are seeing that being played out right now. This time cops are the target. Next time maybe it'll be a different group of people. Forget that people are egging cops on to respond violently to them by breaking the law, ignoring cop's demands, and fighting with the cops. I haven't seen anybody get shot when complying with cop's demands. Maybe they are. I just haven't see or heard it happen. IMO, cops aren't purposely targeting people and shooting them. 

Cops aren't necessarily bad people either when they make judgement mistakes. They aren't robots. They are humans with all the same thoughts, emotions, fears, and flaws just like all of us. I could never do the job they do. It takes a certain type of alpha ahole aggressive type personality to be a cop. So, they are more prone to react aggressively especially when they are trained to believe that anybody they encounter may try to kill them. So, when honeysuckle goes south they react aggressively.

Oh yeah, welcome to the forum!!! Ha! Ha!

I confess! I ate my housemates icecream and did not tell him till 2 weeks later. the guilt has always haunted me... Ohhh, buddy, buddy. If you go on youtube, there is a few videos of people with their hands in their air, complying with cops and getting shot. I think you may need to do a bit more research but thank you for your opinion and insight no matter how misguided. Have a nice day.
 
VinityValswon...I do not think that his opinion is misguided and if you do some research you might change your attitude as well. I understand all of this is a bad scene from hell but the majority of cops are doing a good job. One should let justice play out here and not come to such biased opinions before the facts are in especially since we have such biased news happening in America.. If people would just comply with law enforcement a lot of this would not happen and there are always some crazies in every profession as well. I am not defending the police because there are issues that are not talked about and it centers around their attitudes and a facade of total disrespect for certain people no matter what their race is and this carries on with having a bad attitudes towards them as a whole that does not go away quickly. There does need to be discussions on both sides on how to better this situation and remedy the problems because America certainly does need police that will serve and protect as part of their jobs...Its more education we need as well as more flexibility in discussing the problems because one judgement does not fit all scenes and circumstances..And on top of all of this beneath this scene like Plato's cave here---there are major problems that people have to discuss as well...Yea I agree more research is needed but finished is not necessary misguided......Thanks you Priscella.
 
I tend to think more in degrees than some absolute good and bad. If one bad action caused a a person to permanently be defined as bad, then pretty much everyone is bad since so few of us can accurately claim to be saints. I imagine that many people have done things in the past that they just wouldn't be able to do today. People can evolve and the path can get more narrow.
 
VinityValswon said:
I confess! I ate my housemates icecream and did not tell him till 2 weeks later. the guilt has always haunted me... Ohhh, buddy, buddy. If you go on youtube, there is a few videos of people with their hands in their air, complying with cops and getting shot. I think you may need to do a bit more research but thank you for your opinion and insight no matter how misguided. Have a nice day.

Links please. Credible evidence should be provided when challenging what someone else says and pointing to something somewhere as if it's reliable and factual. Youtube is far from that. It's easy to alter images and videos and even create falsehoods. That way everybody can review it if they want too. But, selective snippets of cherry picked videos of part of a situation doesn't prove or dis-prove whether someone is complying or not. 

If I kick the crap out of cop and then put my hands in the air that doesn't mean I'm complying. It might mean I'm done fighting, it might mean I didn't understand what was going on and now I do, or it might mean I'm setting up for round two, three, or four. I just want the cop to let their guard down before I make my next move.

IMO, more extreme non-lethal devices are needed. The problem is that when one is used the family sues for abusive force even thought it's better then using a gun or a vehicle to stop someone. So, the reason they pull their guns before the general public believes they should is because policy dictates it as non-compliance / violent acts increase depending on the situation. 

BTW, a knife in close quarters is very lethal and stabbing someone can be very quick. So, when a knife is in the hands or reach of someone that raises the situation to deadly force even if the camera lens doesn't show the knife in the field of view.
 
priscella said:
VinityValswon...I do not think that his opinion is misguided and if you do some research you might change your attitude as well. I understand all of this is a bad scene from hell but the majority of cops are doing a good job. One should let justice play out here and not come to such biased opinions before the facts are in especially since we have such biased news happening in America.. If people would just comply with law enforcement a lot of this would not happen and there are always some crazies in every profession as well. I am not defending the police because there are issues that are not talked about and it centers around their attitudes and a facade of total disrespect for certain people no matter what their race is and this carries on with having a bad attitudes towards them as a whole that does not go away quickly. There does need to be discussions on both sides on how to better this situation and remedy the problems because America certainly does need police that will serve and protect as part of their jobs...Its more education we need as well as more flexibility in discussing the problems because one judgement does not fit all scenes and circumstances..And on top of all of this beneath this scene like Plato's cave here---there are major problems that people have to discuss as well...Yea I agree more research is needed but finished is not necessary misguided......Thanks you  Priscella.


You used the word 'majority'. This is a generalisation argument. We must be careful not to generalise any group. I would neither say you are right or wrong, however I would argue that there are too many variables to succesfully prove that the majority of any particular group are good or bad, including cops. For example, in Japan, there was a time when the sexual assault numbers were not very high, but it was found years later how officers and legal officials were taking millions of case files and destroying them. Therefore, resulting in low prosecuation and investigations. Supposedly due to their links with the mafia and corrupt officials. So we can see based on this example of how generalisation is a poor argument even if you were to present statistics which try to prove that 'most' cops are good. You may now use the counter argument that this is only an example that applies to Japan, but let's consider another point. The FBI and many other major organisations have since the 1940s been infilitrated by white supremacist organisations such as the KKK; even the FBI admits it today, look it up. Tie this in with the low prosecutation numbers of police officiers for misconduct and we begin to see a pattern. There have been actual videos where officers have been discovered to plant guns on suspects. Please look it up, I will not spoon feed you. So, when we consider all of this, we cannot make a conclusive argument, but try to challenge the system that was built on slave catching and corruption.
 
Finished said:
VinityValswon said:
I confess! I ate my housemates icecream and did not tell him till 2 weeks later. the guilt has always haunted me... Ohhh, buddy, buddy. If you go on youtube, there is a few videos of people with their hands in their air, complying with cops and getting shot. I think you may need to do a bit more research but thank you for your opinion and insight no matter how misguided. Have a nice day.

Links please. Credible evidence should be provided when challenging what someone else says and pointing to something somewhere as if it's reliable and factual. Youtube is far from that. It's easy to alter images and videos and even create falsehoods. That way everybody can review it if they want too. But, selective snippets of cherry picked videos of part of a situation doesn't prove or dis-prove whether someone is complying or not. 

If I kick the crap out of cop and then put my hands in the air that doesn't mean I'm complying. It might mean I'm done fighting, it might mean I didn't understand what was going on and now I do, or it might mean I'm setting up for round two, three, or four. I just want the cop to let their guard down before I make my next move.

IMO, more extreme non-lethal devices are needed. The problem is that when one is used the family sues for abusive force even thought it's better then using a gun or a vehicle to stop someone. So, the reason they pull their guns before the general public believes they should is because policy dictates it as non-compliance / violent acts increase depending on the situation. 

BTW, a knife in close quarters is very lethal and stabbing someone can be very quick. So, when a knife is in the hands or reach of someone that raises the situation to deadly force even if the camera lens doesn't show the knife in the field of view.

I am unsure if I am allowed to post links so I will point you towards the right direction. Youtube search the following:

Florida police officer faces charges after shooting a man with his hands in the air.

Unarmed man begs for life, shot by police

Philando Castile full Shooting (update: youtube has taken down the full video (censorship) so you have to find it else where yourself.)

These are merely a few. But one pattern I have identified from your argument is heavy bias. In the 1940s to 1950s when lynching were a common occurance many white people were in denial that it was even a problem. They would say: "I haven't seen it so it does not exist". Yet hundreds of men, woman and children were lynched every week according to numerous sources (photographs, ect). As much as many would like to refute, history still affects the present and will continue to affect the future until people deal with it correctly. Ignoring history does not rid the ripple effects applied to our present day, it only serves to make the world more fragile in the long run. I do not expect to shift your mindset but I thank you for this debate. I believe you are merely a product of your time and envorinment, similiar to the men and woman who would engage in past lynchings and denial of societal issues.
 
VinityValswon said:
 Another random rant but I remember in school learning about a poem about a nazi officer who was in charge of the gas chambers, yet he bought a bar of chocolate when coming back home to give to his young daughter. Many people discussed this as a contradicton to the character because this person was doing monsterous things yet was still capable of being a caring father. 
(I didn't read the rest of the thread.)

Being caring towards one's offspring is self-serving behaviour. Similarly, being caring towards one's own tribe was at least in the distant past self-serving too because they are more likely to share dna, as well as have common goals with you and have interests that align with your own. The human brain can turn off empathy. Not just the brains of "evil people". I think every human's brain is like that. Humans will always have most empathy for people who are like themselves and share their views. People they can relate to and identify with. (Not that I think this is good or justifies horrible behaviour! But there's really no other explanation for why human history and news is filled with acts of histolity towards people who are different, think differently, look differently, etc.)
This also extends to how human species treats other species. Many people say about themselves they are animal lovers, and love their horse, dog or cat. But they don't have empathy for other species such as cows. There the empathy is turned off. Even if they think they do have empathy it is only minimal. People keep financially supporting the torture of other intelligent animals such as pigs or cows just to shove down another cheap greasy burger or a milkshake or whatever. Is the pig or cow less worthy of being spared torture than a dog? Less worthy of a pleasant life? To the human mind which is naturally selective in primitive ways when it comes to who it displays empathy for, it seems so. Human sees dog as friend, dog should live and be loved and be spared pain. A pig is something humans can't relate to because they have no personal connection with it, and even if a human might feel bad for a few seconds when thinking about the factory pig's fate, they don't really care and won't stop financially supporting the mass torture of pigs.
 
Myra said:
Many people say about themselves they are animal lovers, and love their horse, dog or cat. But they don't have empathy for other species such as cows. There the empathy is turned off. Even if they think they do have empathy it is only minimal. People keep financially supporting the torture of other intelligent animals such as pigs or cows just to shove down another cheap greasy burger or a milkshake or whatever. Is the pig or cow less worthy of being spared torture than a dog? Less worthy of a pleasant life? To the human mind which is naturally selective in primitive ways when it comes to who it displays empathy for, it seems so. Human sees dog as friend, dog should live and be loved and be spared pain. A pig is something humans can't relate to because they have no personal connection with it, and even if a human might feel bad for a few seconds when thinking about the factory pig's fate, they don't really care and won't stop financially supporting the mass torture of pigs.
Great point! There are plenty of laws to protect dogs and cats. But, it's just fine to kill/torture other animals if we call them food. Lets see some equality and have McDonalds offer a dog burger.

[img=400x225]https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Xe4h7SEP4sA/maxresdefault.jpg[/img]
 
TheRealCallie said:
Myra, do you have children?
the reason animals including humans have children in the first place is to pass on their dna. That's what I mean by "self-serving". Perhaps the word-choice wasn't the best. The reason we have the instinct to deeply love and care for and protect our own children is also because of that, whether you like it or not, and whether I have children or not.
 
Well, sure. Dogs are feed pretty well nowadays. I bet they have great flavor. Hmmmm. I wonder if the neighbors would notice a few dogs missing. Hmmm. Ha! Ha!

Oh wow! Apparently the US is missing out. Dog meat is great!
"It was estimated in 2014 that worldwide, 25 million dogs are eaten each year by humans.[10]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_meat

Mmmm. BBQ Pulled dog sandwich. Maybe it's time to visit the pounds during free adaption days. Ha! ha!
 
Finished said:
I bet they have great flavor. 
Probably its rich flavour is reminiscent of wet dog aroma. Animals (goats, cows, etc.) smell strongly, and the taste of their meat and their milk is similar to how they smell. You can really taste and smell the animal as you are eating its meat or one of its body products and it makes my stomach turn. One of reasons I can't eat that stuff. But do let me know how you like it. Maybe you can also find an area with a street dog or cat problem and do some good for the community.
 

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