I feel that adult males who are "forever alone" are society's scapegoats.

Invisibleguy said:

ardour said:

Virgin as a pejorative has been used against a few members here I think.  Generally romantic success is seen as correlating with worthiness and good character in men since they are  expected to seek out relationships. Even as that's clearly not true with a lot men who manage well enough with women, society sees it in this simple effort + character = girlfriend way.    Women  do the choosing therefore their  worthiness is never in question, and those who don't get approached and are too shy to ask men out are seen as legit victims of beauty ideals, bad luck, or bad experiences, and are given space to be bitter without judgement. Unfortunately there is an association between incels and the Far Right, sometimes for valid reasons, giving 'virgin'  another level of disapproval.

Click to expand...

Do you mean people on this forum used virgin as a pejorative towards other members?

Click to expand...

On a couple of occasions. I had a  PM  exchange with someone, I won't mention who, who ended calling me a 'virgin loser', something along those lines.

ardour said:

Invisibleguy said:

ardour said:

Virgin as a pejorative has been used against a few members here I think.  Generally romantic success is seen as correlating with worthiness and good character in men since they are  expected to seek out relationships. Even as that's clearly not true with a lot men who manage well enough with women, society sees it in this simple effort + character = girlfriend way.    Women  do the choosing therefore their  worthiness is never in question, and those who don't get approached and are too shy to ask men out are seen as legit victims of beauty ideals, bad luck, or bad experiences, and are given space to be bitter without judgement. Unfortunately there is an association between incels and the Far Right, sometimes for valid reasons, giving 'virgin'  another level of disapproval.

Click to expand...

Do you mean people on this forum used virgin as a pejorative towards other members?

Click to expand...

On a couple of occasions. I had a  PM  exchange with someone, I won't mention who, who ended calling me a 'virgin loser', something along those lines.

Click to expand...

Virgin loser? Are we back in high school or something? Who, over the age of 16 uses THAT as a putdown? Absolutely pathetic.

Forgottendanfan said:

Virgin loser? Are we back in high school or something? Who, over the age of 16 uses THAT as a putdown? Absolutely pathetic.

Click to expand...

^this.

---

ardour said:

Invisibleguy said:

ardour said:

Virgin as a pejorative has been used against a few members here I think.  Generally romantic success is seen as correlating with worthiness and good character in men since they are  expected to seek out relationships. Even as that's clearly not true with a lot men who manage well enough with women, society sees it in this simple effort + character = girlfriend way.    Women  do the choosing therefore their  worthiness is never in question, and those who don't get approached and are too shy to ask men out are seen as legit victims of beauty ideals, bad luck, or bad experiences, and are given space to be bitter without judgement. Unfortunately there is an association between incels and the Far Right, sometimes for valid reasons, giving 'virgin'  another level of disapproval.

Click to expand...

Do you mean people on this forum used virgin as a pejorative towards other members?

Click to expand...

On a couple of occasions. I had a  PM  exchange with someone, I won't mention who, who ended calling me a 'virgin loser', something along those lines.

Click to expand...

3 guesses who, though I'm sure I only need 1...if I'm guessing right this person has gotten away with things like that for years. I've seen those comments while browsing old threads sometimes, and I shake my head at how they got away with some of the blatantly insulting things they've said, and how any of that is conducive to what's supposed to be a supportive environment.

I've seen "virgin" or similar terms used to insult members too over the years, and openly, at that. Usually it was done under the cover of fighting "misogyny" where there really wasn't any, and even if there was, you're not going to reach someone by insulting them. There's no such thing as bullying for a good cause, it's just bullying, and that's never good, period.

I guess the irony was lost on them that in order to send you a PM calling you a "virgin loser" - which is against the rules, by the way - they too had to be a member of this same loneliness support space - indicating that they have social issues of their own, that they really should be more concerned with instead of picking on other people to try to feel better about their own lack of success.

I don't know which kind of person I like less - high-status "successful" people that strut around acting like they are inherently better than others and can't/won't put themselves in others' shoes, or fellow outcasts that want to pretend they are "cooler" and "higher" than they are, by picking on other outcasts. It's lame.

TheSkaFish said:

Forgottendanfan said:

Virgin loser? Are we back in high school or something? Who, over the age of 16 uses THAT as a putdown? Absolutely pathetic.

Click to expand...

^this.

---

ardour said:

Invisibleguy said:

ardour said:

Virgin as a pejorative has been used against a few members here I think.  Generally romantic success is seen as correlating with worthiness and good character in men since they are  expected to seek out relationships. Even as that's clearly not true with a lot men who manage well enough with women, society sees it in this simple effort + character = girlfriend way.    Women  do the choosing therefore their  worthiness is never in question, and those who don't get approached and are too shy to ask men out are seen as legit victims of beauty ideals, bad luck, or bad experiences, and are given space to be bitter without judgement. Unfortunately there is an association between incels and the Far Right, sometimes for valid reasons, giving 'virgin'  another level of disapproval.

Click to expand...

Do you mean people on this forum used virgin as a pejorative towards other members?

Click to expand...

On a couple of occasions. I had a  PM  exchange with someone, I won't mention who, who ended calling me a 'virgin loser', something along those lines.

Click to expand...

3 guesses who, though I'm sure I only need 1...if I'm guessing right this person has gotten away with things like that for years.  I've seen those comments while browsing old threads sometimes, and I shake my head at how they got away with some of the blatantly insulting things they've said, and how any of that is conducive to what's supposed to be a supportive environment.

I've seen "virgin" or similar terms used to insult members too over the years, and openly, at that.  Usually it was done under the cover of fighting "misogyny" where there really wasn't any, and even if there was, you're not going to reach someone by insulting them.  There's no such thing as bullying for a good cause, it's just bullying, and that's never good, period.

I guess the irony was lost on them that in order to send you a PM calling you a "virgin loser" - which is against the rules, by the way - they too had to be a member of this same loneliness support space - indicating that they have social issues of their own, that they really should be more concerned with instead of picking on other people to try to feel better about their own lack of success.

I don't know which kind of person I like less - high-status "successful" people that strut around acting like they are inherently better than others and can't/won't put themselves in others' shoes, or fellow outcasts that want to pretend they are "cooler" and "higher" than they are, by picking on other outcasts.  It's lame.

Click to expand...

---

All you've said in this post, serves to validate my original point. Why wasn't the person banned or at least given a strong warning, for talking like that to a fellow forum member? Nobody advocates for men like us, even on a forum dedicated to helping lonely people.

Forgottendanfan said:

All you've said in this post, serves to validate my original point. Why wasn't the person banned or at least given a strong warning, for talking like that to a fellow forum member? Nobody advocates for men like us, even on a forum dedicated to helping lonely people.

Click to expand...

I know. Ironic, isn't it?

Me personally, I don't know if I want advocacy, as much as I want to be understood. And I really can't stand the hypocrisy of lonely people picking on other lonely people, trying to set up a mini-hierarchy, when we should all know better.

If that was a question where you were looking for an answer, and not a rhetorical one...can't discuss that stuff openly.

ardour said:

Invisibleguy said:

ardour said:

Virgin as a pejorative has been used against a few members here I think.  Generally romantic success is seen as correlating with worthiness and good character in men since they are  expected to seek out relationships. Even as that's clearly not true with a lot men who manage well enough with women, society sees it in this simple effort + character = girlfriend way.    Women  do the choosing therefore their  worthiness is never in question, and those who don't get approached and are too shy to ask men out are seen as legit victims of beauty ideals, bad luck, or bad experiences, and are given space to be bitter without judgement. Unfortunately there is an association between incels and the Far Right, sometimes for valid reasons, giving 'virgin'  another level of disapproval.

Click to expand...

Do you mean people on this forum used virgin as a pejorative towards other members?

Click to expand...

On a couple of occasions. I had a  PM  exchange with someone, I won't mention who, who ended calling me a 'virgin loser', something along those lines.

Click to expand...

Considering the fact this is a loneliness oriented forum, it's rather disheartening knowing that it's slur worthy, being a virgin adult male. You'd imagine people on here, of all places, would actually be more empathetic

Invisibleguy said:

Considering the fact this is a loneliness oriented forum, it's rather disheartening knowing that it's slur worthy, being a virgin adult male. You'd imagine people on here, of all places, would actually be more empathetic

Click to expand...

Loneliness is not guaranteed to improve a person's character, neither is it proof of someone just being a kind, misunderstood soul. People, good and bad, get lonely for all sorts of reasons. Deliberate trolling aside, all kinds of shady things happen in the shadows and some even out in the open, but I'm afraid it's just humanity in action. Insults, threats, putdowns, people posting pics of their junk...all the nasty elements. If you spend enough time in one place, you're gonna have to deal with disruptive elements eventually. You can't let it discourage you though...I hope you won't.

If someone made a derogatory comment against someone for being gay, disabled, ethnic minority etc. their feet wouldn't touch the ground before they received a warning or even a possible ban, but apparently it's perfectly acceptable to insult a lonely adult male virgin. The double standard makes me sick.

Forgottendanfan said:

If someone made a derogatory comment against someone for being gay, disabled, ethnic minority etc. their feet wouldn't touch the ground before they received a warning or even a possible ban, but apparently it's perfectly acceptable to insult a lonely adult male virgin. The double standard makes me sick.

Click to expand...

Do you, by chance, report the posts that insults you (or whoever you are talking about)?  If not, I think the blame is on you there, since you can't expect the mods to read every single post.  Also, if you don't report the issues, chances are high that the mods won't see it since they seem to be rather busy in their own lives. 
They don't get paid for moderating this forum, so take the initiative and report something if it offends or insults you.  BUT, that said, just because you find it insulting doesn't necessarily mean the mods will find it insulting.  A honeysuckle ton of my posts gets reported, but I don't get in trouble because I didn't break any rules.  Some people simply don't like what I say.

^ Pretty much this. I think I also got reported once or twice over the years but if the mods don't deem it ban- or callout-worthy even after a report, then it is what it is. Some people also drop nasty comments and just disappear because they only wanted to stir the pot to begin with and disappear on their own. I don't think I have encountered anyone publicly using slurs and speaking overtly derogatory of a group, even male virgins, in years and those that did usually got banned quickly. I think the mods also got a feel for context and when somebody speaks from genuine conviction or just out of accumulated frustration.

TheRealCallie said:

Forgottendanfan said:

If someone made a derogatory comment against someone for being gay, disabled, ethnic minority etc. their feet wouldn't touch the ground before they received a warning or even a possible ban, but apparently it's perfectly acceptable to insult a lonely adult male virgin. The double standard makes me sick.

Click to expand...

Do you, by chance, report the posts that insults you (or whoever you are talking about)?  If not, I think the blame is on you there, since you can't expect the mods to read every single post.  Also, if you don't report the issues, chances are high that the mods won't see it since they seem to be rather busy in their own lives. 
They don't get paid for moderating this forum, so take the initiative and report something if it offends or insults you.  BUT, that said, just because you find it insulting doesn't necessarily mean the mods will find it insulting.  A honeysuckle ton of my posts gets reported, but I don't get in trouble because I didn't break any rules.  Some people simply don't like what I say.

Click to expand...

It wasn't me who was insulted. Rest assured if it was, I would've gone straight to the moderators to report it as I don't suffer fools gladly. Having said that, I don't fight other people's battles for them. God knows I've enough of my own to contend with.

---

Also I wasn't specifically talking about this forum alone, but the general consensus that society seems to have, that adult male virgins are worse than Satan's armpit.

Sorry, but if I see something that is offensive, I report it, whether it's about me or not. It's not about fighting other people's battles for them, it's about doing the right thing.

Ardour was pm'd though.

TheRealCallie said:

Sorry, but if I see something that is offensive, I report it, whether it's about me or not.  It's not about fighting other people's battles for them, it's about doing the right thing.

Click to expand...

I didn't see it. Apparently it took place within a private conversation between Ardour and someone else. If I'd seen the comment first hsnd, I quite possibly would have reported it.

Forgottendanfan said:

Also I wasn't specifically talking about this forum alone, but the general consensus that society seems to have, that adult male virgins are worse than Satan's armpit.

Click to expand...

It's like the right-wing argument about poverty - that it's under your control and if you're not making it, it means you're not doing enough out of some moral failing and therefore you deserve to suffer. Or they say you're just weak/inferior/a loser and your suffering is survival of the fittest working as it should. Either way, they think there's no problem to solve or no reason to feel empathy or even listen to what anyone has to say.

Or it's just the grown up version of "kick the (perceived) weak person, it's fun and they're not going to do anything because they're weak. and we get to feel like we're better than someone and special for it yay"

Forgottendanfan said:

If someone made a derogatory comment against someone for being gay, disabled, ethnic minority etc. their feet wouldn't touch the ground before they received a warning or even a possible ban, but apparently it's perfectly acceptable to insult a lonely adult male virgin. The double standard makes me sick.

Click to expand...

Like I was saying, there's other factors at play though. I understand how you feel about this, I've felt something similar myself. But unless it's happening to you right here and now, it's best not to make yourself mad about hypothetical situations.

It's like going out thinking "man if someone says the wrong thing to me, I'm going to get so pissed, I'm going to fresia them up". But it hasn't happened yet, and there's no indication that it necessarily will happen. So it's best not to get yourself worked up and ruin your mood over "what if's".

---

Rodent said:

I don't think I have encountered anyone publicly using slurs and speaking overtly derogatory of a group, even male virgins, in years and those that did usually got banned quickly. I think the mods also got a feel for context and when somebody speaks from genuine conviction or just out of accumulated frustration.

Click to expand...

Going to have to disagree here, especially going back into older posts from around the time I joined or a little before. I've seen derogatory things said, namecalling, all kinds of vicious comments, all right there out in the open. The main person doing it was obviously attacking people, even for offenses that didn't even exist, yet was not banned or even warned as far as I can tell, though they don't seem to be here anymore either. So in a sense it doesn't matter, but then again...at one point, that was allowed to let stand.

It's not happening now. But it's something to keep in mind, and I don't think it's too cool.

---

TheRealCallie said:

Sorry, but if I see something that is offensive, I report it, whether it's about me or not. It's not about fighting other people's battles for them, it's about doing the right thing.

Click to expand...

The problem is that there is so much subjectivity. "Offensive", "right thing", etc. And then trusting other people to do that right thing.

TheSkaFish said:

---

TheRealCallie said:

Sorry, but if I see something that is offensive, I report it, whether it's about me or not.  It's not about fighting other people's battles for them, it's about doing the right thing.

Click to expand...

The problem is that there is so much subjectivity.  "Offensive", "right thing", etc.  And then trusting other people to do that right thing.

Click to expand...

---

Yeah, see with me,  I am rarely offended by anything, so if I can see it's offensive, it's usually pretty messed up.   Not only that, but a lot of times, people who come to a forum like this don't want to call attention to themselves or think they deserve it or something, so they won't report anything or stand up for themselves. 
This should be a safe place, so I report honeysuckle if it break rules or crosses a line. In chat, I will call out anyone who says anything negative about a forum member, whether they are in chat or not.

TheRealCallie said:

Not only that, but a lot of times, people who come to a forum like this don't want to call attention to themselves or think they deserve it or something, so they won't report anything or stand up for themselves. 

Click to expand...

I could see that. I think standing up for yourself, and the right to stand up for yourself, is essential to self-worth and ultimately maybe even confidence and a way out of loneliness. I know how not doing it made me feel, and I didn't like it.

TheRealCallie said:

This should be a safe place

Click to expand...

Agreed. Unfortunately that's not always the case. But it should be.

TheRealCallie said:

In chat, I will call out anyone who says anything negative about a forum member, whether they are in chat or not.

Click to expand...

It would be easy to let that stuff go if the person wasn't even in the chat to be offended by it. It's good that you don't, though. Shows integrity.

TheSkaFish said:

Going to have to disagree here, especially going back into older posts from around the time I joined or a little before.  I've seen derogatory things said, namecalling, all kinds of vicious comments, all right there out in the open.  The main person doing it was obviously attacking people, even for offenses that didn't even exist, yet was not banned or even warned as far as I can tell, though they don't seem to be here anymore either.  So in a sense it doesn't matter, but then again...at one point, that was allowed to let stand.

Click to expand...

I could be wrong, Ska. I can absolutely admit that. I was even under the impression that you've been around for a lot longer than me but I've only joined a few months after you...how about that. Can't say I looked too much into posts before my time, so who knows. I don't have a good memory of my early years here, some things I might have tried to forgot deliberately too. So I'll take your word for it.

I'm also not prone to being offended by words, so I don't think I ever reported anything but spam and illegal honeysuckle. I'm always up for arguing against someone who I think is wrong about a subject or is not approaching it with what I deem the necessary nuance.

...this thread has gotten off the rails quite a bit, not that we were ever truly on the rails to begin with. But I think I'll stick with my original statement. Most of those men are invisible most of the time. A lot of subgroups, some less than admirable, reside within that large pool though and justified or not, a single man is something that is often scrutinized.

Hazed said:

Ardour was pm'd though.

Click to expand...

It was in the course of conversation that started out civil. People claim offence over all sorts of things in order to shut down opinions they don't like and I'd rather not join in the easily offended 'triggered' brigade.