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Why Dating Sucks for Average Guys
#61
(06-13-2021, 04:18 PM)lnlflwr Wrote:
(06-13-2021, 03:54 PM)ardour Wrote:
(06-13-2021, 03:30 PM)lnlflwr Wrote: Oh, my stars and garters! I'm a third of Helen Mirren's age and she's still far hotter than I'll ever be. Ok guys, I get it know, I give up as well. yikes

How dare men prefer younger women, predictable. Like I said,  playing the puritan card out of offence, or because it's the only cared left, usually from someone who gets to date when they're young.

At least I'm honest?

She's not unattractive but she's elderly looking. Should we be  attracted to elderly looking people? I don't expect younger women be attracted to 77 year old Robert De Niro either. That's kind of ridiculous.

You're being very harsh here and I don't appreciate this type of treatment from someone I don't even know. I was making a joke at my own expense, because this topic makes me feel insecure, uncomfortable and also because I wanted to be light hearted since people were starting to fight. You're rude.

I honestly didn't realize you were joking.

The intention wasn't to insult or imply women's value lies in their appearance.
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#62
(06-13-2021, 03:15 AM)lnlflwr Wrote:
(06-12-2021, 07:50 PM)mgill Wrote:
(06-12-2021, 05:00 AM)lnlflwr Wrote: It isn't delusional, it's a well documented function of insecure attachment where people repeat the same mistakes because they're more comfortable with the inevitable failure than unknown outcomes that might be anxiety inducing or present an amount of uncertainty they're not comfortable experiencing. It's not a personality trait or character flaw, it's just an issue that needs to be worked through so you can be successful in relationships.
What tells me you might have issues with this is how you're choosing to reply my posts. I wouldn't say that failure is lack of effort because that's very insensitive, people can only give so much of themselves and sometimes they still fail. That's fine, but you can't use that failure as a reason to 1. never try again, and 2. believe you're worthless and won't ever succeed.

i can assure you that i am in no way comfortable where i am at and would do just about anything to change it for the better. what you suggest may be true if it were a case of having another person's interest and then having things fail due to my intentional actions.  for me this has never happened.  not a single date in over 8 years and each rejection is worse than the last because it serves to reinforce the fact that i am just too physically unattractive to ever succeed.  sometimes giving up is the only way to stay sane and retain what little self esteem i may have remaining in this area. it is accepting this fact which has been the source of great misery & angst for me.

as i said, i am actually quite successful and confident in the other area's of my life aside from this one-which also happend to be the only one which is so completely dependent on physical apperance. imo, the idea that one can somehow be confident without ever having success over a very long period of time is delusional.  i don't consider myself worthless but am well aware that the evidence that i am simply not good enough is quite conclusive as that is what i have been taught by the women i have been attracted to for as long as i can remember.

I understand what you're saying completely and empathize with you a lot. I don't want to be the person who's just going to say "lower your standards" because that is wrong, but I do believe you can still be attracted mostly to people that will continue the cycle of getting rejected. It doesn't have to be about how they look at all, just about their way of conducting themselves in the world where there's a subconscious confirmation that they wouldn't give you the time of day. I'm saying this because I've had issues with this before, I have pursued people that wouldn't allow me to care for them because they were too closed off to the idea that anyone would ever care about them at all. I learned that it has a ton to do with how starved for affection and care I was as a child, and continuing the pattern of making effort to be loved and not getting it was my traumatic cycle, which is why I often pursue people who are avoidant and not willing to really allow themselves to get hurt anymore. I wonder if you're an avoidant type.

no-i am not an avoidant type and don't think i have especially high standards and would be extremly satisfied with my looksmatch of an average to below looking women in very good shape. as long as a women is physically fit and feminine i usually find her attractive regardless of her race or height. i routinely see men who have far less going for them than i do with attractive spouses/GF.  the one thing they do have in common is that they are all taller & better looking than i am. i have zero doubt that if i were even of average height (5'10) and had the hair i was born with, my life would have been vastly superior to what it has been being short & bald. 

i understand that it can be extremely unpleasant for most women & even many men to accept that this is the way the world really works because they have very rarely if ever experienced it directly themselves.  the fact that the Halo Effect is an unconscious bias makes it very difficult for them to recognize the truth that physical attraction is the primary driver of romantic attraction and those men below a certain basleline of looks & height are going to struggle tremendously in this area-regardless of whatever else we may have going for us. 

if it were instead a mental issue as has been suggested so many times, these issues would have invariably affected other aspects of my life but this has not been the case for me at least.  as i have repeated countless times, this is the one and only area which i have experienced total, catastrophic failure for almost a decade and is also the one and only area where looks & height are of such critical importance to success.  the fact that a man can have tremendous success with women by only being tall & facially attractive while a short, bald, average looking man can have everything else going for him but still never find a partner speaks volumes about the state of the modern dating world.

ps-i truly appreciate your empathy, interest and effort to try in understand this phenomenon.  it is a refreshing change from others who try and use baseless assumptions & false accusations against someone they know nothing about in order to try and protect their own fallacious worldview which is in such conflict with reality.  as i said before, ten or maybe even five years ago i would have been in complete denial of it also because it confliced with the way i was always taught the world works but having lived it these many years, i was forced to accept the only rational conclusion despite how devastating to my psyche is was and has continued to be.
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#63
I just need to date a younger person then
I'm actually David Blane.
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#64
(06-13-2021, 02:56 PM)kaetic Wrote: Are these the same women you've been around your whole life, or is this a new "group"? IMO it makes a difference, but I can understand why you'd have a  negative view and group them all together.

I didn't  want to turn the thread  into my personal blog, but yeah, while a couple of them seemed genuine, I did recognize a lot of the behaviour from when I was younger, except now they can't rely on men to approach, there's a bit of passive aggression if you don't behave they way they want.  I noticed a few times they might make some initial attempts to break the ice but then expect me to take over the interaction and show the kind of assertive Real Man confidence they expect.  In that sense it's barely any different than the kind of girls who in the past, who if my looks didn't put them off, would judge you within literally a few words then 'go blank' if you weren't confident enough.  Since I'm not that attracted any more and a family is no longer on the cards there's little reason to go there, even for purposes of finally getting some romantic/sexual experience. 

 My own age group was at the tail end of archetypal kiwi/aussie bloke culture which was still the norm in the '90s/2000's. Things have changed a great deal but I'm not young enough to benefit.  This gets tedious.  The average young male you'd come across back then was an aggressive dropkick who's main vocation seemed to be being a prick to everyone around him while being rewarded for it. There was a lot of nastiness; men were constantly  testing out each other's masculinity. "Faggot" and "piece of shit" were common insults. I haven't heard those words uttered for years now.  Not really allowed to feel, not allowed to be interested in anything "different" i.e. creative. I'm exaggerating because individuals vary,  but this was the overall atmosphere at the time.  

And like I said, people have aged terribly. It applies as much to men if you think I'm using that as an excuse to take shots at women.  We come from a heavy drinking, bad lifestyle culture.  Overall it's a borderline uncomfortable thought, being physically intimate with a person my own age..

 I don't know about you. If you haven't been through relationships then perhaps you also look younger than the skeevy, grey haired, 40-going-on-60 men in your cohort, and have similar 'wtf?' thoughts about the prospect of dating them. Or perhaps you don't care at all about that and are a better person than me.

And nobody seems to want to do anything. Socializing  means heavy drinking at a depressing drinking hole somewhere. Always that same old thing. People rarely travel out of their habitat. Arranging things over the weekend is like pulling teeth, so forget it. 

So this is what there is for us now.  I spent important years focused on a family member and seem to be paying for it with the rest of my life. The only desire is to be 25-29 again, dating and socializing with people that age group. But that's not possible now. Not the most likeable admission perhaps. It's certainly in the category of a pointless/futile/first world complaint.
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#65
(06-14-2021, 06:33 PM)ardour Wrote:
(06-13-2021, 02:56 PM)kaetic Wrote: Are these the same women you've been around your whole life, or is this a new "group"? IMO it makes a difference, but I can understand why you'd have a  negative view and group them all together.

I didn't  want to turn the thread  into my personal blog, but yeah, while a  couple of them  seemed genuine,  I did recognize a lot of the behaviour from when I was younger, except now they can't rely on men to approach, there's a bit of passive aggression if you don't behave they way they want.  I noticed a few times they might make some initial attempts to break the ice but then expect me to take over the interaction and show the kind of assertive Real Man confidence they expect.  In that sense it's  barely any different than the kind of girls who in the past, who if my looks didn't put them off, would judge you within literally a  few words then 'go blank' if you weren't confident enough.  Since I'm not that attracted any more and a family is no longer on the cards there's little reason to go there, even for purposes of finally getting some romantic/sexual experience. 

 My own age group was at the tail end of archetypal kiwi/aussie bloke culture which was still the norm in the '90s/2000's. Things have changed a great deal but I'm not young enough to benefit.  This gets tedious.  The average young male you'd come across back then was  an aggressive dropkick who's main vocation seemed to be being a prick to everyone around him  while being rewarded for it. There was a lot of nastiness; men were constantly  testing out each other's masculinity. "Faggot" and "piece of shit" were common insults. I haven't heard those words uttered for years now.  Not  really allowed to feel, not allowed to be interested in anything "different" i.e. creative. I'm exaggerating because individuals vary,  but this was the overall atmosphere at the time.  

And like I said, people have aged terribly.  It applies as much to men if you think I'm using that as an excuse to take shots at women.  We come from a heavy drinking, bad lifestyle culture.  Overall it's a  borderline uncomfortable thought, being physically intimate with a person my own age..

 I don't know about you. If you haven't been through relationships then perhaps you also look younger than the skeevy, grey haired,  40-going-on-60 men in your cohort, and have similar 'wtf?' thoughts about the prospect of dating them. Or perhaps you don't care at all about that and are a better person than me.

And nobody seems to want to do anything. Socializing  means heavy drinking at a depressing drinking hole somewhere. Always that same old thing. People rarely travel out of their habitat. Arranging things over the weekend is like pulling teeth, so forget it. 

So this is what there is for us now.  I spent important years focused on a family member and seem to be paying for it with the rest of my life. The only desire is to be 25-29 again, dating and socializing with people that age group. But that's not possible now.  Not the most likeable admission perhaps.  It's certainly in the category of a pointless/futile/first world complaint.

All this time and I didn't realize you were from New Zealand... I read "kiwi/aussie bloke culture" and it threw me...
Maybe you should visit/move to the US. Your accent would trump any other issues that have gotten in your way in the past, and you wouldn't be limited the way you feel you are to 40+ year olds. It wouldn't help for online dating... they'd have to hear your voice. American women are crazy about accents.

I do often get surprised looks when I tell people I'm 40, but I don't know how much of that is them just being nice. I get what you're saying about not finding women your own age attractive... that's not what I was picking on in my last comment. Everyone has preferences. I've always liked older men, not that it ever really mattered, but I guess that puts me in an easier position than you at this stage of life.

I don't care for the bar scene either.
I think that's a mid-life... not crisis exactly... when you regret how your life has gone and feel like you missed out, or you're not where you should be. I've been feeling like that since my mid-twenties though...
I would love a do-over...
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#66
Kaetic has good advice as i seem to recall that ardour is also over 6' so in addition to his NZ accent, his height would be a tremendous advantage in finding a women in the US & Canada. too bad it would take travelling halfway across the globe just to have a chance at a relationship. sadly for me, no culture exists which finds short, bald males attractive so geomaxing is not a viable strategy for all men. also, unless one has actual options it really does not matter who they may or may not find attractive. it's like asking a starving person in africia what their favorite food is.
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#67
(06-15-2021, 02:49 PM)kaetic Wrote: I would love a do-over...

Wow! Really? I'm so done with this life. I want this to be the final end for me. Once my life here is over I want to go into nothingness and end things completely. No do-overs for me. But, I probably said that during my last life and the one before that too. Blaaaaaaaaaa.
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#68
(Yesterday, 08:34 AM)mgill Wrote: Kaetic has good advice as i seem to recall that ardour is also over 6'..

I'm just over 5'9".  Work visa's are difficult and expensive to get.   I doubt any 26-33 yo woman in the US, Japan, or wherever, will want to date a middle-aged loser just for novelty of an accent, and even if they would, I'd finally be experiencing this at a point where it doesn't matter any more.
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#69
(Yesterday, 01:03 PM)ardour Wrote:
(Yesterday, 08:34 AM)mgill Wrote: Kaetic has good advice as i seem to recall that ardour is also over 6'..

I'm just over 5'9".  Work visa's are difficult and expensive to get.   I doubt any 26-33 yo woman in the US, Japan, or wherever, will want to date a middle-aged loser just for novelty of an accent, and even if they would, I'd finally be experiencing this at a point where it doesn't matter any more.

so only of average height-even with your accent that's not going to help you in the states unless you are also well above average facially. no idea about places like Japan or other countries. i have seen a some older women at the gym who take good care of themselves and who are very attractive but they are very few & far between and almost always have a high tier male partner.  guess the title of the thread & video is all too accurate but since dating sucks for average men, it's completely over for below average one's like me.
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