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Do you belong to an organised faith?

  • Yes

    Votes: 2 11.8%
  • No

    Votes: 15 88.2%

  • Total voters
    17

darkwall

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 30, 2008
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Location
Hertfordshire, UK
OK, first I'm going to elaborate my postion:

I think that life is short and often painful, and anything that helps you through your day is a good thing. However, I also believe that religions should be subject to laws that apply to others. If I told my son that if he was bad and then died he'd be burned alive, his teacher would have words. If I asked you to give millions to my magical friend Dave so he would cure your bunions, I could go to jail.

So, I'm fairly pro-belief, but anti-religion.

However: it seems to me that organised religions have a much better system for dealing with lonely people than others. If you believe in God, you are much less likely to be depressed, not because of any healing powers he might have but because the afterlife is a comforting thought. Statistically, people who believe in God live a year longer for this very reason.

But more than that, churches and other places of worship form communities around them that have no real equivalent in the secular world. I've been doing a documentary on a Christian unlicensed boxer, and going into his church there was a kitchen, a meeting room where old people could go all hours of the day, a reading room, as well as the actual church. All of the Christians at my uni just have to turn up to the Christian Union meetings to make friends, and my mum is the same with her Liberal Synagogue lot.

So I'm interested: with theists estimated at 90%, how many people on the forums believe in God? Because if the stats are true, it should be well over 1 out of 10. My hypothesis is that this is because:

1. The feeling of one's actions having meaning.
2. The illusion that someone is protecting you.
3. Decreased anxiety about death due to belief in heaven.
4. A system of directives conducive to a state of well-being.
5. Communal support and shared activities/interests.

Has religion helped your depression? Or has religious guilt ever worsened your mood? How big a part does belief in God play in someone's life and their welfare?
 
Deist leaning Agnostic here.

I do sort of see how the organization and "feeling" of community may help somewhat with the depression of some.

Bottom line though, as far as the actual faith part, ignorance is bliss.
 
1) Learn to think in parellels: Faith is impossible. There is obviously the side of us that explores and the side that doubts and these two sides will always exist. So just be humble. You don't need to choose a religion. Lets be true to ourselves here and admit that beliefs exist in a state of potential existence while practices that produce tangible results are real.

2) Origin - don't you find it odd that everything requires an origin? I mean if you go back far enough there should only be nothing. How could their possibly be any life at all? It's because this way of thinking is one sided. On the other side of the coin of 0 is infinity. All possible realities have already existed and have always exited, they merely have not been observed. This is the truth science has found in quantum mechanics.

3) God is Love, God is within all things, etc. Forget the word god, that word should just been cast into a bottomless pit and forgotten forever. Use the universe, all, or I am that I am. At the sub-atomic layer all things are connected, so when you think of the entire universe as a single thing IT is god.

4) Depression: What you radiate out into the universe is returned to you. I had known absolute despair for years. Then one day I decided to do something very ironic. I decided to offer unconditional love to everything around regardless of the torture being sent my way. It has had profound results. In fact the love I am getting in return from nature, things, and even people is overwhelming. You love without expecting anything in return, or even expecting pain.

5) Love: in the sense that people are changing they are basically the same. We like to make profiles and think in singular terms: you are definitely this, will always be this, and no amount of circumstance will ever make you be anything else. I used to be like this too, but change is inevitable. The sooner people accept this they can rise above it and see that all of the old stale notions we have are merely games we play in which we weren't being completely true to ourselves.

The type of connectivity that's possible in quantum theory allows two connected entities to be in indefinite states , but allows the couple itself to be in a definite state.

Definite states are real, and can exist. Family, childhood friends, are all examples, but its also possible to make new ones.

6) anything that can be imagined can exist. If it couldn't exist then it couldn't possibly be imagined. We don't have the power to make anything exist, but that is not to say someday a super science won't be available to make it happen. Nothingness and Infiniti have always been real, time is an illusion, there is merely the eternal ever-changing now. Life is kind of like a movie on your harddrive. The entire movie has always existed on the hard drive, we are merely observing it at a particular frame.
 
i don't know but if i was to chioce a god. I'd chose a loving god

Once there was a dude standing in a burning building.
Firemen came to recue him. The guy refused the help and said "god will save me"
The firemen said..."oki doki"

Then the dude retreated to the second floor of the building as the fire grew bigger.
The sprinkler system kicked on and flooded the second floor.
Then a man in a row boat showed up to recue the stranded dude.
He again refused to be recue and said " God will save me"
The man in the row boat said " oki doki"

The fire grew biger and biger. The dude had to retreat to the top
of the burning build that's a complete inferno.
Then a helicopter came to recue him.
Again the dude refused the help and said "God will save me"
The helicopter pilot said "oki doki"....

As you would have it....the dude died in the inferno.
After he died he saw God...
He then told god ...."What happened ? Why didn't you save me ? I belive in you....

GOD replied
" fresia dude....i sent the fire truck , the row boat and a **** copter even. WTF else do you want ?!?"...lmao
Errrrrr.....:p



Faith without work is dead.
 
darkwall said:
Statistically, people who believe in God live a year longer for this very reason.

Id have to dissagree. Religious people live there life in FEAR, fear of hell, fear of making a mistake and being sent to hell. Religious people have to limit there life to how an imaginary man in the sky want them to. This is why i believe non believers live a more valuable life.

Also, Religious people see this life as a waiting room to the afterlife and do not appreciate life as much as it should be.

darkwall said:
So I'm interested: with theists estimated at 90%

Lol, maybe in america...
 
*cough*
1) Are you telling me to learn to think in parallels? Isn't that a little presumptuous, as is your claim that faith is "impossible"? Isn't your saying that "what you radiate out into the universe is returned to you" a faith? When you say that beliefs exist in a state of potential existence, you're being tautological. To say that you don't need to choose a religion is also very problematic, as clearly there are great benefits for many.

2) Er ... I don't find it odd that things require origins, as I had always supposed this was a prerequisite for existence. To say that 0 is the opposite of infinity is mathematically ridiculous. I find your yin/yang simplification of everything into two opposing states over-simplistic. Quantum mechanics has definitely *not* proved that all "possible" realities have already existed. I don't know where you got that one from.

3) God and the universe are two entirely different things. One is supposedly sentient, the other is not. To say that when you think of the entire universe you think of God seems to me a vacuous statement.

4) It isn't "very ironic" to offer unconditional love in harsh circumstances. I suggest you look up the meaning of the word. Your approach to relationships, however, is laudable.


5) "in the sense that people are changing they are basically the same" - did you get a DVD about Buddhism with a magazine or something? Why unleash it on me? What does this conceivably have to do with the actual post? Your application of quantum theory to human relationships has no real basis at all.

6) "anything that can be imagined can exist." - To substantiate this sweeping statement by saying that "if it couldn't exist then we couldn't imagine it" is laughable. So the physical potential of the universe must pre-empt all boundaries of the human mind? We can't imagine a lot of things that exist, and can imagine a lot of things that will never happen. Science backs me up on that one. For example, I can imagine a machine that is able to measure the distance between quantii using light, but that will never happen, because if it did the quantum physics you have a vague understanding of would fall apart. See?
 
No, really, you can't disagree with theists living longer as it is a fact. They are also generally happier.

I think you are generalising about religious people somewhat. Only a certain percentage of people from all faiths even believe in hell: Jews don't bother about it at all. The ones that do believe in hell tend to assume that because they believe in it, they're not going there.

I do agree that many religious people do not live life to their full potential - particularly the ones that devote it to their faith - but the point is that they don't see it this way.

Porman said:
darkwall said:
Statistically, people who believe in God live a year longer for this very reason.

Id have to dissagree. Religious people live there life in FEAR, fear of hell, fear of making a mistake and being sent to hell. Religious people have to limit there life to how an imaginary man in the sky want them to. This is why i believe non believers live a more valuable life.

Also, Religious people see this life as a waiting room to the afterlife and do not appreciate life as much as it should be.

darkwall said:
So I'm interested: with theists estimated at 90%

Lol, maybe in america...
 
Atheist, religion in my eyes was made up by primitive people to give them a reason to keep going. Justification for the mysteries around them. Like Schopenhauer put it, religion is philosophy in pill form. A way to live that's easy to swallow for the laymen.

Nice and all, just not for me.

You may get skewed results here due to the fact this is a forum for lonely folks, and folks who believe in God would not be feeling lonely supposedly, and thus not be here. Just a thought.
 
darkwall said:
*cough*
1) Are you telling me to learn to think in parallels? Isn't that a little presumptuous, as is your claim that faith is "impossible"? Isn't your saying that "what you radiate out into the universe is returned to you" a faith? When you say that beliefs exist in a state of potential existence, you're being tautological. To say that you don't need to choose a religion is also very problematic, as clearly there are great benefits for many.

2) Er ... I don't find it odd that things require origins, as I had always supposed this was a prerequisite for existence. To say that 0 is the opposite of infinity is mathematically ridiculous. I find your yin/yang simplification of everything into two opposing states over-simplistic. Quantum mechanics has definitely *not* proved that all "possible" realities have already existed. I don't know where you got that one from.

3) God and the universe are two entirely different things. One is supposedly sentient, the other is not. To say that when you think of the entire universe you think of God seems to me a vacuous statement.

4) It isn't "very ironic" to offer unconditional love in harsh circumstances. I suggest you look up the meaning of the word. Your approach to relationships, however, is laudable.


5) "in the sense that people are changing they are basically the same" - did you get a DVD about Buddhism with a magazine or something? Why unleash it on me? What does this conceivably have to do with the actual post? Your application of quantum theory to human relationships has no real basis at all.

6) "anything that can be imagined can exist." - To substantiate this sweeping statement by saying that "if it couldn't exist then we couldn't imagine it" is laughable. So the physical potential of the universe must pre-empt all boundaries of the human mind? We can't imagine a lot of things that exist, and can imagine a lot of things that will never happen. Science backs me up on that one. For example, I can imagine a machine that is able to measure the distance between quantii using light, but that will never happen, because if it did the quantum physics you have a vague understanding of would fall apart. See?

Science can't prove or disprove the existence of GOD.
Human might use science as a tool to try to explain how things work.
But science still can't give a diffinite anwer to the absolute of WHY ?
Why you don't have a dick on your forehead still can't be explain :p
 
Unacceptance said:
Atheist, religion in my eyes was made up by primitive people to give them a reason to keep going. Justification for the mysteries around them. Like Schopenhauer put it, religion is philosophy in pill form. A way to live that's easy to swallow for the laymen.

Nice and all, just not for me.

You may get skewed results here due to the fact this is a forum for lonely folks, and folks who believe in God would not be feeling lonely supposedly, and thus not be here. Just a thought.

No, that's kind of what I wanted to discover: whether belief or lack of it affects how good people feel about themselves.

Great quote from Schopenhauer. And thanks to your signature, I now know where Mitch Hedberg got it all from ...
 
well...do you have a GF yet ? :p

if you imagined her all these years..she must exist in you life by now...lmao
 
darkwall said:
No, really, you can't disagree with theists living longer as it is a fact. They are also generally happier.

I think you are generalising about religious people somewhat. Only a certain percentage of people from all faiths even believe in hell: Jews don't bother about it at all. The ones that do believe in hell tend to assume that because they believe in it, they're not going there.

I do agree that many religious people do not live life to their full potential - particularly the ones that devote it to their faith - but the point is that they don't see it this way.

Where are you getting your "facts" from? believing in god doesnt make you live longer. I think you are generalising about religion too, did you think about the religious people that blow themselfs up in the name of god? (lol it had to be said).

Most religious people spend there lives making an invisible man happy instead of themselfs... Are priests happy? that touch little boys because there that **** lonely lol.

Im an athiest, I dont believe in supernatural bullshit. What I do know for curtian that no matter what I think is going to happen once I die, Its not going to matter, its not going to change whats really going to happen, So In that I find comfort, comfort that none of it matters, all that matters is that I live the best life I can live. Once Im dead, I wont know Iv died, I wont have a concience to care, I didnt care before i was born. I know that when I die, When the pope dies, when all the religious nuts out there die, we will all be in the same boat, So what I believe doesnt matter. Where as religious people have to keep convincing themeselfs of a better afterlife as they cannot handle the unkown, And if that makes them feel better, then so be it. but you cannot say this makes them happier then those who dont have to make up stupid lies to get on with life.
 
blah.... Its a load of honeysuckle. All these sights are saying is "those with a purpose in life live longer" Im not religious yet I HAVE A ******* PURPOSE. I will take what i want from life, I have my own goals and motivations from which keeps me looking forward, not some fake man in the sky. Religous people look forward to dieing anyway so they can go to heaven lol.

Seriously tho, There talking about optimistic people, which yes, those who look on the bright side of life will live longer, which has nothing to do with the belief of god or not.

http://www.livescience.com/strangenews/ap_060330_prayer.html

Read that...

"NEW YORK (AP)—In the largest study of its kind, researchers found that having people pray for heart bypass surgery patients had no effect on their recovery. In fact, patients who knew they were being prayed for had a slightly higher rate of complications."

"The study looked for any complications within 30 days of the surgery. Results showed no effect of prayer on complication-free recovery. But 59 percent of the patients who knew they were being prayed for developed a complication, versus 52 percent of those who were told it was just a possibility."
 
Christian (with occult, and apostastic tendencies).

My faith in God seems to help my depression and overall atmosphere of life if I am in a right place with Him; if not, then I am sort of on my own.
 
Look, Porman, no-one's arguing with you mate. All it's saying is that on average people are likely to be happier if they believe they are being watched over and protected. Happier people live longer, as doctors have known since Hippocrates.

So far we've got seven people to nought who are not affiliated with any religions, compared with 9 out of ten Americans who are. I think that speaks volumes for what religion can bring to your life.

ATHEISM NEEDS A CHURCH. We need something which will cater to the old and weak, something which will give morals that people are bound to follow, not this "pick and mix" morality that my agnostic friends live by. If there is no God, people still must have something to believe in, something to come together in. Atheists are rightly proud of being independent, but not all humans are built that way, and the decline of organised religion is leaving a number who haven't been able to fill the gap in their lives .... and yes, I think more people are turning to crime because of it.

Every time a grave gets vandalised, every time a kid gets stabbed, it's someone crying out "there is no God". Because without God, the universe is such a different place - good and evil have new connotations, and life seems so much more important and yet so much more meaningless at the same time.

Have any of you replaced religion in your lives? Have any of you found something wonderful enough to die for, now that you know that it would mean the end? I haven't. Unacceptance quoted that religion is philosophy in placebo form - well, maybe philosophy needs to take to the streets, in a language that people can understand. It's not right that most Christians think all Jews go to hell - racism I can stand, but eternal damnation is far uglier. It's not right that no-one's attacked the bible in a way understandable to most who actually read it, and it's not right that people like Dawkins have nothing to offer in the place of that which they seek to destroy.

Religion offers community - atheism doesn't. Well, I feel strongly enough about this to do something about it. I'm going to start looking at atheist organisations and start questioning what they really offer - in terms of charity, support etc. - that is comparable with religion.

Porman said:
blah.... Its a load of honeysuckle. All these sights are saying is "those with a purpose in life live longer" Im not religious yet I HAVE A ******* PURPOSE. I will take what i want from life, I have my own goals and motivations from which keeps me looking forward, not some fake man in the sky. Religous people look forward to dieing anyway so they can go to heaven....

http://www.livescience.com/strangenews/ap_060330_prayer.html

Read that...

"NEW YORK (AP)—In the largest study of its kind, researchers found that having people pray for heart bypass surgery patients had no effect on their recovery. In fact, patients who knew they were being prayed for had a slightly higher rate of complications."
 
I don't know if religion in and of itself provides relief for depression. Certainly, today it's very very difficult to find any sense of community, but churches still do provide that which is a very good thing. Also, inspite of all their faults and constant failures over the centuries which continue to the presant day, I think the charitable work that most of them are engaged in shouldn't be scoffed at, cuz it is genuine and also tries to take that communal sentiment from the church to the surrounding neighborhood.

In the chat room a while back we were talking about comparative suicide rates between countries and why it is that people in richer countries kill themselves in greater numbers than in poorer ones. Now people kill themselves for a whole bunch of reasons specific to the individual but one possible idea was that in richer countries the population is much less religious than in poorer ones. Not to say that religion makes them happier--I think almost all faiths condemn suicide so at the very least believers who would kill themselves just don't want to go to hell or something--but it's a cold statistical factoid which makes my theory seem more legit, although statistics for many poor countries (indeed the whole continent of Africa!) are missing here, so....well, I think adding a map to an argument makes it seem impressive at least.

SuicideRates.PNG


Personally belief in God has done nothing yet to bring me out of my social isolation and sadness, but then again I've only begun believing in God rather recently and when I still didn't I felt just as miserable as I do now. So, based on expirance, it doesn't really make much of a diffrence if you believe or if you don't.
 
I imagine that believing in the Christian god would be a deterrent against suicide since after life you would be burned and tortured forever and ever in Hell.

But God loves you.
 
Antihero said:
I imagine that believing in the Christian god would be a deterrent against suicide since after life you would be burned and tortured forever and ever in Hell.

But God loves you.

I see my words have fallen on def ears.

First of all there is no hell, not in the bible, not anywhere. There was no concept of hell in old testament, it was created by the church to control people. The real deterrent against suicide is reincarnation, because then you just keep coming back to the same situation again.

I refuse to believe that a friend with a good heart is going to go to hell just because in their mind they didn't believe in the correct theory about history, religion, etc. Look at how stupid it really is.

God loves all of us and wont stand to see even a single soul damned.

The Bible every soul will be judged on judgment day after the 1000 year reign of christ. Meanwhile there is evidence for reincarnation in the Bible. Read everything on this site if you are interested:

http://reluctant-messenger.com/holy-days.htm

And atheists take note I am speaking to those with religious views here. Your idea that god doesn't exist is also true, believe it or not. The face of God is non existence, which can be seen unless your dead.
 
Catharsis said:
Antihero said:
I imagine that believing in the Christian god would be a deterrent against suicide since after life you would be burned and tortured forever and ever in Hell.

But God loves you.

I see my words have fallen on def ears.

First of all there is no hell, not in the bible, not anywhere. There was no concept of hell in old testament, it was created by the church to control people. The real deterrent against suicide is reincarnation, because then you just keep coming back to the same situation again.

I refuse to believe that a friend with a good heart is going to go to hell just because in their mind they didn't believe in the correct theory about history, religion, etc. Look at how stupid it really is.

God loves all of us and wont stand to see even a single soul damned.

If there really is a God, then we are in agreement. However, it would seem as though most serious Christians believe there is in fact a Hell.

To reiterate. I agree that Hell is a human invention to manipulate people

... Then again, I could say that about all organized religion and not just the one aspect, but that's another topic I really do not want to get into.
 

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