Love without manipulation

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mimizu

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Is it possible for two people to be in love without manipulating each other?

Such as blaming the other person for what they didn't do, sneakily destroying their self esteem, making an argument out of nothing, getting the other person to act as a servant or else "you don't love me", etc.

Do most people put up with this because this is an integral part of love and can't be avoided? Am I the only one stupid enough to think that it's weird?
 
Wow... You really said it all.. It is so true what you say. Love is suppose to be kind and patient. Love is not suppose to be jeleous. All those things that love is suppose to be - yet I can never find it. I think that people put up with it because they are either in denial - or still hoping to find it. Maybe they think things will change. They may even change - but only for a moment. Eventually it goes back to the same old routine. Manipulation - blame - and the slow but sure destruction of one's self-esteem.
 
That is true. It makes me wonder if "true love" actually exists in this messed up world...
 
Perhaps manipulation can be decreased under circumstances that encourage free expression.
 
mimizu said:
Is it possible for two people to be in love without manipulating each other?

Such as blaming the other person for what they didn't do, sneakily destroying their self esteem, making an argument out of nothing, getting the other person to act as a servant or else "you don't love me", etc.

it is weird but how can people in this world be TRULY in lurve if it can't be challenged at times..
i think luvs always cahllenged everyday and if the two peple DO love each other they will see past the agrument and misperfections and accept that the person INSIDE does care and love them for them and not for being a servant etc..
but then again what is love..? anybody out there got any ideas.?
 
I like to look at ancient Greek philosophy in answering difficult questions, especially on "love." It helps to provide a focus, so I'm not simply speculating. Can we have love withuot manipulation?? Ideally, yes, but I think it takes a strong person, or a strong couple to realize the greater benefit that we can gain from our relationships. Read Plato's symposium to see what Socrates says about love, or just look it up on wikipedia for a brief synopsis (also the term Platonic love). Try to be openminded about the Ancient greek view on pederasty. It may repulse a lot of people, but understand it was part of their culture.
Anyways, if you get at the heart of the message in the Symposium, love should not stop at its basest form - the carnal, erotic love that we're used to seeing on tv or reading about in "love" stories. It's a great motivator, but not to be viewed as an end. It's about connecting with someone or even friends in order to commonly seek out virtue and truth - the highest principles that we can relate to. The notion of these two principles may seem far-fetched to us, but they really are the foundation for all of us to become enlightened and achieve self-actualization and fulfillment.
I am not a professional on taking this route, by the way. I hope this all came out the right way. It sounded right when I wrote it.
 
love...........
i believe in rocking chair romance.
LOL What is that you say? Well it is where we are old and grey, sitting in matching Rocking Chairs, holding hands, and loving each other as much as we did when we met. Sappy Eh? i know i jus think that people nowadays dont really know what love is.lets say you love someone very deeply for all they are and are not. yet suddenly he decides he doesnt love you.....people expect you to stop loveing him saying"you have to move on ,time heals all" utter crap.they make you feel obsessive and like a stalker ,as if your love is dirty and you are filthy to try and make it work to not want to give in and say "fine ,screw you" which seems to be how it is.
that is what is considered norm and yet i find it hurts so much inside
i believe love is friendship ,the best of friends ,because the poundingof your heart,butterflies in your stomach it all ends and all you have is trust,loyality and friendship.without that you never had any kind of union at all except sexual,that doesnt last.
dont get me wrong sex is important ,there are many ways to have skinship with each other ,personally i would marry a handicapped man happily,he has a tongue...:rolleyes:.... we can find a way to make things work,and he sure is more likely to not cheat on you or dispose of your loyalty so easily.
it takes people who have been hurt physically,mentally,emotionally to know the real worth of love sometimes ,problem is many can be destroyed past the point of safely being able to show it no matter how much they value it if the abuse was bad enough.
not saying normal people cant find true love,not at all,many many do.i just think that many of them dont realize that true love comes very rarely and when it does how precious a gift it really is, that you have to work at it forever to keep it protected and nurtured.most "normals" also find out after many trials and errors.
have you ever felt this way....
1 I love you not because of who you are, but because of who I am when I am with you. (have felt this only once with one person i loved very deeply over a year but his parents drove us apart and pressured him into breaking it off ,i wasent good enough.....)
2Just because someone doesn't love you the way you want them to, doesn't mean they don't love you with all they have.(some people try very hard try and notice the small things they do like stay up with you at night,or always wake you from your nightmares and talk you back to sleep)
3A true friend is someone who reaches for your hand and touches your heart.(then you usually fall in love)
4The worst way to miss someone is to be sitting right beside them knowing you can't have them. (happened to me ,the one ,my one,i wa forced to let go)
5Never frown, even when you are sad, because you never know who is falling in love with your smile.(good luck i cant do it tho i try i always have a fake glossed over smile)
6Maybe God wants us to meet a few wrong people before meeting the right one, so that when we finally meet the person, we will know how to be grateful. (yea well all i have meet is wrong ones and the right one had the wrong parents)
7Just because no one has been fortunate enough to realize what a gold mine you are, doesn't mean you shine any less. (sometimes they jus gotta dig a lil deeper)
8Just because no one has come along to share your life, doesn't mean that day isn't coming.(dear god let this one be true)
9Just because no one has shown up who can love you on your level, doesn't mean you have to sink to theirs. (dont! i have been on my knees for years,get up out of the dirt)
things you learn.......
1I’ve learned that you cannot make someone love you. All you can do is stalk them and hope they panic and give in.
2I’ve learned that it takes years to build up trust, and it only takes suspicion, not proof, to destroy it.
3I’ve learned that you shouldn’t compare yourself to others- they are more screwed up that you think and know.
4I’ve learned that you can keep vomiting long after you think you’re finished.
5I’ve learned that regardless of how hot and steamy a relationship is at first, the passion fades, and there had better be a lot of love,friendship or money to take it’s place.
6I’ve learned that 99% of the time when something isn’t working in your house, one of your kids did it.
7I’ve learned that the people you care most about in life are taken from you to soon and all the less important ones just never go away.

i had one relationship ,everyone knew we would marry ,people were envious of how much we loved each other.we were the "perfect couple". his family destroyed it and in the end it ruined both of our lives.alone and pregnant i married badly a person i didnt love and had a very hard life ,still haveing a hard life.my ex his parents spoiled him,he traveled ,he schooled,but he never married .he was the one,and i was his.we are not the same people we were 17 years ago ,so its too late life experiences have changed us both.
anything is possiable,if you give it a chance,its the denial ,the unwillingness to give or try that ruins it.
my life has so many many many regrets............dont live your life with regrets too because it eats your soul ,it cuts your wrists from the inside out.....
 
In the Symposium, Socrates recapitulates the argument of Diotima, that love is the yearning for what is good. And so the question becomes, what good quality or experience has escaped ones reach?

For my own part, I strive to answer at: http://www.FoolQuest.com
 
lonely2beeme said:
anything is possiable,if you give it a chance,its the denial ,the unwillingness to give or try that ruins it.
my life has so many many many regrets............dont live your life with regrets too because it eats your soul ,it cuts your wrists from the inside out.....

What do you mean by regrets? Regrets that you had about things you never bothered doing? Or perhaps regrets about what you shouldn't have done? Unless you mean "Don't feel like you should regret anything that has happened in your life in the past." Then that's a call to being positive and to take the time to smell the roses, right?

With what happened between you and your boyfriend long ago, would you refer to that as a regret? That circumstance was totally out of your control, so it's not like that has anything to do with a regret eating away at your soul.

The more I read about your circumstances, the more I want to applaud you for standing strong amidst it all.
 
It bewilders me how the more I learn about human behaviour and social dynamics, the more it points to the conclusion that I must be dishonest, mysterious, dodgy and conniving sometimes just to make it in this world. If I don't, then I should just crawl back into a dark place and watch as the world passes me by.
 
I always said that... humans are mean-spirited and aggressive... if you have a kind soul, they will stomp you. They enjoy causing pain to anyone who is weaker than them.
 
mimizu said:
I always said that... humans are mean-spirited and aggressive... if you have a kind soul, they will stomp you. They enjoy causing pain to anyone who is weaker than them.

This is quite pessimistic. Although so far I've met a grea deal of aggressive and mean people, I don't think 100% human beings are like that.
One more thing, have you ever considered how many times you act mean or aggressive? I don't say you are actually mean and/or aggressive, but when you say "They will stomp... they enjoy causing pain..." seems you're trying to say you're the only innocent lamb in this world :)
 
Believe me, there is still true love exisiting in the world. Or that is what i believe cause I really do. I did that once to a girl. I mean, I known her for long, interested in her, but yet i knew we could never be together due to huge differences in interest and looks, i still did nice stuff to her, comfort her. Although I never really came close to being her boyfriend, what matters most important that she was happy =).
 
SadRabbit said:
Although I never really came close to being her boyfriend, what matters most important that she was happy =).

Now that's the spirit of a true gentleman (and a good lover ;) ).
 
Negative world situations (especially those conjured up by the powers that be) have led the human race down the road to negative behavioural patterns as outlined by In The Matrix. It's all about control of the world populace. This has been going on for a very long time now. I have to disagree with Mimizu if it is implied that good people are weak. It takes strength of character to be a good person. People like Mother Teresa and Nelson Mandela for example were definitely not weak people.

Certain powers that be want many to believe that aggression, dishonesty etc. are signs of power and they try to make us believe this via their major propaganda tool the media. How can negative behaviours make one strong doesn't make sense. It goes against all principles.

Also, many of those people with those negative traits only SEEM to be prospering. It all backfires on them one day.
 

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